What actually hit the Pentagon: an old stone apparently left unturned

[HEBGB]

Now, if you are going to quote me, quote me verbatim or not at all.  I'm beginning to suspect both of (HEBGB and Patriot) of being up to no good, even though ostensibly we would agree on this.

Why would you say that? I absolutely do not and never will no matter what believe that a commercial airliner hit the pentagon.

I am also not dumb enough to believe that jets caused any of the three buildings to collapse on themselves.

Having said that, the video released looks to be doctored (poorly doctored at that) If that blur I see is what they expect me to believe is a commercial airliner when it appears to be leass than half the size of a 757 then I have ocean front property in Tennessee to sell them.

I also agree that if the footage that was confiscated showed proff of their "official story" it would be plastered everywhere all the time and they would use it, twist it and ride that info for all it was worth to justify a means to their totalitarian hypocracy.

By the way: physics says the ends of the wings would either NOT be attached because the light poles would have ripped them right off of the "jet" OR if they did "by some miracle" remain intact, they would NOT have folded BEHIND the jet, they would have broken off and accelerated FORWARD, thus, hitting the building and bouncing off.

[citizenx]

I don't think you actually read my posts.  If you did, you would see I clearly don't believe a plane hit the Pentagon.  On that, we are on the same wavelength.  However, there are some other things yous don't seem to get.  But, yes, if you are going to quote me, quote me verbatim or not at all.  Thank you.

Read all the posts carefully and you will see.

I'm not your enemy, dude.  Look again.  I'm just trying to "red team' this issure for you, to highlight the weak points in your case which others WILL exploit.

I'm also trying to get your to see a more effective way of waking others up to 911 truth.  Focus on the fundamentals.  Forget about the structural integrity of the plane upon impact, focus on the trajectory of the plane, the ballistics.  At least one pilot has already told  you on this thread that there is no way a plane could have hit that building in that fashion.  That's the point the other side can't beat you on, and some of them know it.  They want you to argue endlessly about wingtips and tailfins.  It is unnecessary.  Think like a lawyer.  Hopefully, one day this case will be in the hand of some able lawyers.

[agentbluescreen]

I'm not aware of the proof that the photo is a "covered JPADS Tomahawk-pallet platform near the road being hustled off under the tarp."  I saw a story on rense.com saying the blue covering was a service tent, and pointing out how light it seemed to be to the people carrying it.  I can also put up your identification, with my disclaimer that I'm not aware how that is proven.

How hilarious! The famous "Tent Theory"  lol

I must insist what these traitors are hustling off the edge of the Pentagon lawn by the highway in this photo is no 'Tent" - a tent does not have an elongated canvas covered aluminum cargo rail superstructure, nor a canvas chute, nor a wooden aircraft cargo pallet crate bottom! What would one put in a "tent" of this dimension if it were a "tent"? Two bunk beds end to end with no corridor? A far too narrow office one could not stand or salute in?

I'm a bit of a camping aficionado in my spare time, and I've never ever seen a tent that comes with a wooden pallet-skid, let alone one of such an impractical size and shape.

It couldn't possibly be any acceptable "cargo pallet" from a commercial airliner because it is too high and they do not ever use them, they all have and use only rigid, rectangular or square, wheeled, side-cross belted-in aluminum luggage containers with roll-top doors for speedy sorting by destination, roll-on loading and towing about the tarmac. Only a cargo jet with rear door Jitney access can carry pallet cargo, where they and their strapped-on contents can be belted down to the floors. An empty pallet only needs a rounded top "roll cage" if it needs to be suspended from above, it's own strapping is inadequate or break-away, or (worst case) it must be resistant to rolling.

Lets look at this particular peculiarly elongated high rectangular lightweight cargo crate that was already covered with a pre-made custom tarp before police, rescue fire and ems services arrived and was only later being hastily carted off by embarrassed senior al DIAduh minions, from the edge of the roadway, across the lawn from the Pentagon building by the highway guardrails near where it had struck some light poles and landed a wee bit short of the desired landing zone where it had been expected to be accurately air-dropped.


Once again this is an extraordinarily suspicious looking work detail, (clerical and supply workers) obviously whatever was originally on this pallet is long gone, and the now-empty pallet is merely being retrieved, otherwise you'd bring it out or collect it with the fork lift that brought it there.  The "pallet corollary" is that if it HAD had a load on it, no fork lift could have delivered it onto a lawn, you'd need to use a shingle/building material crane (or a cargo jet and parachutes) to have dropped it there.

Now let's look at the circa-2000 (then still PEGASYS Precision Extended Glide Airdrop System) JPADS technology. It was already fairly mature by this time. Wright Patterson had tested them exhaustively in 1999 and it seems all they were in the market for by then was some cheaper (and better) wind sensors for higher altitude drops.
 http://www.dodsbir.net/SITIS/archives_display_topic.asp?Bookmark=10878

But they waited until Bush was sure to be re-elected in 2004 before fully declassifying and going public for general tenders in a public conference.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/1448063/US-Air-Force-25002-vol1-3-

How does it work? Well aside from GPS, battery, flight controller and inertial navigation/wind sensors with control servo systems you need two or more chutes and this detachable electronic parasail "flight controller" package. The main drag-spill-chute's job is deceleration and steering, a secondary parasail would be needed for added lift and load leveling with lower altitudes and heavier payloads.

This is the third generation "Screamer" type now presumably being used to drop off arms, fuel and larger opium payments into Afghanistan, since Ben can't get in there with a helicopter safely. Note the ubiquitous wooden cargo pallet on the bottom, the larger more advanced and expensive, more light pole resistant models now have fancy aluminum skids with built-in cargo floor cleats and roll-out wheels. (Now almost 8X8 they also hold up to 70% more cocaine for discrete domestic night drops.)



So, what most likely was in this peculiar "tent"?


I'll tell you what you could easily fit into a cargo-pallet "tent" of this type, top front: an explosive cable-drag package with some fake airliner debris and a doctored FDR, top rear the Pegasys JPADS chute and control module cradle, bottom full-length: a pre- elevated for launch Tomahawk missile!

And it would have been oh so great if it had not hit those poles and thus landed a bit closer so your fat minions would have had time to not only collect and tarp over it but also have already carried it back in before photographers had arrived...



And what is in the bottom center of this photograph between the first and second white shirt, wrapped up in another sailcloth bundle in the background?

What you're all seeing as "too long" in that blurry distant video is something being towed by a missile at about 5 feet of altitude - Hidden in plain sight

[agentbluescreen]

How hilarious! The famous "Tent Theory"  lol


And what is in the bottom center of this photograph between the first and second white shirt, wrapped up in another sailcloth bundle in the background?

Oh excuse me I get it, it's another "tent" for the little guard dogs...

[Kilika]

There's just one thing about your photo agent. Since you mention the background and that bundle of olive drab cloth that appears to be hanging bundled up from under what those guys are carrying, the background shows something else; count how many people have their arms raised above their heads as if they are holding something up, or in place, above their heads. Starting with the black guy in uniform of some type on the left, going right, I see at least 4 others in the background holding their arms up, and they are some distance from the person in the foreground. That would make an odd shape, because it appears as though all those people are holding up the same item.

[citizenx]

Maybe, it's a big "chuppah".

Mazel Tov!

[agentbluescreen]

There's just one thing about your photo agent. Since you mention the background and that bundle of olive drab cloth that appears to be hanging bundled up from under what those guys are carrying, the background shows something else; count how many people have their arms raised above their heads as if they are holding something up, or in place, above their heads. Starting with the black guy in uniform of some type on the left, going right, I see at least 4 others in the background holding their arms up, and they are some distance from the person in the foreground. That would make an odd shape, because it appears as though all those people are holding up the same item.

Yes there is at least another guy behind the first white shirt and possibly more behind the other 4, but the cop doesn't seem to be involved. It's also hard to tell of the chute/controller is connected or simply bundled on the ground behind the pallet next to the guardrail. There certainly were many witnesses and bystanders and something must have caught the attention of that fire truck.

There were originally 4 photos in this series of shots of that peculiar early morning evidence removal ceremony

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/216-large.jpg

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/217.jpg

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/218.jpg

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/219.jpg

but they have all been removed

[agentbluescreen]

Interesting, this totally incriminating "covered JPADS Tomahawk-pallet platform near the road being hustled off under the tarp" photo is suddenly disappearing everywhere ROTFLMAO

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/216-large.jpg

You know I never realized how totally incriminating this suspicious blue tarped airdrop pallet actually is!

Upon closer examination there are four distinct rather special features about it that bear even closer special attention:

1: The blue tarp appears to be an integral part of it, note the 13-14 visible wide-washer fasteners that secure it to the internal frame, these would have taken a great deal of time to attach. This is not a generic tarp "thrown over" something, it's the cover of a very specially designed custom delivery system.

2: Note it's hemmed, sewed and tailored design and the unique weighted "flap-open" front door panel and side slits. Especially note the 'hardened' triangular 'rider' point it the front bottom which the first whiteshirt has his left hand on. Also note the unique tapered front door bottom hems. (and open unsecured back bottoms to allow gas escape)

3: Note the black "bandage" on the upper center side of the door flap that appears to be supporting some weight or internal bungee-cord door closing retractor. Note also a tighter more securely held overlapping internal white cuff-sleeve-layer of possibly heat resistant shielding

4: Note the 3 large visible lower melted heat-stretch bulges, as if it had been rocket flame-licked from inside.


If this contraption is not, in fact, the largest and most obvious "smoking gun" that I have ever seen, I don't know what else could be.

[citizenx]

I think it was a chuppah.
Maybe Wolfowitz's nephew was getting married.

It wasn't Succoth.

I've believed it was some sort of missile for a long time, probably some sort of Tomahawk.  I'm not sure it matters exactly what kind of missile it was.

The DOD has got some 'splainin to do.  Maybe, they can fill in the details for us when we waterboard the motherf@#%ers.

Treason.

[jimd3100]

In fact a cruise missile (fired at such ground hugging trajectory) launching itself from a descending (or just landed) ultra light prototype "JPAD-dropped" guided cargo platform (then just developed) seems to be precisely the method used!


There is only one solution that fits all the facts, (in fact you can see the parachute under the tarp too) it was repainted C-130 that flew over the Pentagon, which while superficially looking like an airliner, could only have "dropped a missile" using one of these:
LOL

You make up silly stories. Why? Your posts indicate you might be afflicted with paranoia. You spread no plane Disinfo. I will also show that it can be proven that you have no clue as to what it is you are talking about.

It's 2010, you no planers are a waste of time and bandwidth. Almost 9 years and you still haven't figured out that on 9/11 planes flew into buildings. That's pretty embarrassing.

Since this happend in broad daylight in a heavily populated area, there are lots of witnesses. For every missile witness you present I will present 2 that say it was a plane.
I'll go first...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H8CinIWltY&feature=PlayList&p=6FA2A860385F97EC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ihc1_pentagon-eyewitness-isabel-james_news

Now show us 1 missile witness and I will post 2 more. If you can't then we're done.

Are any of you no plane disinfo queens going to provide a witness that says a plane didn't hit the pentagon or not? I'm guessing not. Gee...I wonder why? I'll let you in on a little something the rest of the world has known for years.....on 9-11 planes flew into buildings.

there is a really good documentry that backs up your knowledge that no plane hit the pentagon. It's made by the citizen investigation team called NATIONAL SECURITY ALERT. It's the best made pentagon film out there IMO, and it effectively destroys the possibility a plane could have hit the pentagon, now was it a predator drone or a missle? I don't know but no 767 hit the pentagon that day, that much I do know.

Thanks. Now I can move this embarrassing disinfo thread to the BS section where it belongs. Just because you are gullible enough to fall for the idiotic disinfo put out by mentally ill attention seekers, doesn't mean I'm going to help you promote it. And I'm not going to spend the rest of my life repeating the same thing over and over, you can read the CIT spreads Disingo thread or cry. It's up to you.

Interesting, this totally incriminating "covered JPADS Tomahawk-pallet platform near the road being hustled off under the tarp" photo is suddenly disappearing everywhere ROTFLMAO

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/images/216-large.jpg

(seems it hit a couple light poles and so, landed a bit further out than they'd expected it to, so it took a bit too long to gather up, bundle, conceal and recover)

They even tried to shut down the forum here exactly as they did when we exposed the Mossad truck-bombed WTC7 Triage Deathcamp connection to the Murraugh Building dry-run after Barry Jennings' suspicious assassination.

This is concrete proof you have no clue what you are talking about. You have the nerve to show a pic that nearly everyone is already aware of and source pentagonresearch.com. You are about to get a history lesson on that website. And claiming that as the reason the forum was shut down and the pic everyone has seen is "disappearing" proves you suffer from paranoia.

Very suspicious.

LOL!

How hilarious! The famous "Tent Theory"  lol

I must insist what these traitors are hustling off the edge of the Pentagon lawn by the highway in this photo is no 'Tent" - a tent does not have an elongated canvas covered aluminum cargo rail superstructure, nor a canvas chute, nor a wooden aircraft cargo pallet crate bottom!

The site you claim is "off the web" due to this picture is the same site that exposes that in fact it is a tent. You are completely clueless, and spread no plane disinfo. The pentagonresearch.com website was the website of Russel Pickering. Russell went to Arlington Virgina with Dylan Avery to do research on the pentagon and talk with witnesses. He was doing excellent research into the pentagon and was finding extremely helpfull things. For instance he discovered that the plane or "missile" did NOT go through 6 walls and 3 rings. He discovered the true architecture of the pentagon. He did lots of great research but he had 1 problem. He was being truthfull. And you no plane disinfo queens can not stand the truth. So get the f**k out of the truth movement! Two tag alongs went with Dylan and Russell. The mental patients who call themselves CIT(now convince yourself they did that for reasons other than self promotion) these two already had their stupid theory that a plane did not hit the pentagon, and nothing was going to change that. Pretty much like every poster on this thread. These guys are liars and con artists and Russell was exposing them. Guess what? That makes Russell an undercover FED operative doesn't it? LOL! Of course it does...he "supports the official story". Well, he doesn't. I told you he had a problem. He told the truth. That is how disgusting you no planers are. You destroy the truth movement with insanity and BS. Russell got sick of dealing with you nuts and being accused and is done with the movement. And you assholes have the nerve to claim this website (HIS WEBSITE) is down because it exposes how a missile hit the pentagon? What Idiots and liars. Get your facts straight or STFU.

You know I never realized how totally incriminating this suspicious blue tarped airdrop pallet actually is!

Upon closer examination there are four distinct rather special features about it that bear even closer special attention:

1: The blue tarp appears to be an integral part of it, note the 13-14 visible wide-washer fasteners that secure it to the internal frame, these would have taken a great deal of time to attach. This is not a generic tarp "thrown over" something, it's the cover of a very specially designed custom delivery system.

2: Note it's hemmed, sewed and tailored design and the unique weighted "flap-open" front door panel and side slits. Especially note the 'hardened' triangular 'rider' point it the front bottom which the first whiteshirt has his left hand on. Also note the unique tapered front door bottom hems. (and open unsecured back bottoms to allow gas escape)

3: Note the black "bandage" on the upper center side of the door flap that appears to be supporting some weight or internal bungee-cord door closing retractor. Note also a tighter more securely held overlapping internal white cuff-sleeve-layer of possibly heat resistant shielding

4: Note the 3 large visible lower melted heat-stretch bulges, as if it had been rocket flame-licked from inside.


If this contraption is not, in fact, the largest and most obvious "smoking gun" that I have ever seen, I don't know what else could be.

You keep referencing this pentagonresearch.com site as your evidence I already gave a short history lesson of that website. Now let's use the wayback machine to see if I was telling the truth.....

Here's what Russell Pickering's website called www.pentagonresearch.com looked like Oct 2007...

Oct 6 2007
The influx of new information, the need to update and personal reasons have led to this decision. Rather than have inaccurate data, I would prefer to pursue a new format and update after considering how to present the current state of the Pentagon investigation. I appreciate your understanding and support.

In the mean time, I consider Jim Hoffman a responsible researcher and will link you to his site.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071006203218/http://www.pentagonresearch.com/

Check out what Hoffman has to say about the pentagon, try and learn something....

Jim Hoffman site...
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/index.html

Using the wayback machine here is what pentagonresearch.com looked like before Pickering left the so called "truth" movement....

pentagonresearch.com website as of Feb 9 2007 using the wayback machine...

The trip to DC produced significant evidence for an aircraft performing the maneuvers that it was claimed to have. Other evidence combined with this has led me to conclude that an impact did occur. It does not change my position that I don't believe Hani Hanjour was in control of it. It has not changed my overall opinion that 9/11 was at the very least allowed and facilitated by small elements within the U.S. government. In fact, I have found more evidence for that.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070209145135/http://pentagonresearch.com/index.html

Look at these two pictures, and take a wild guess as to what website exposed long ago that is just a tent. Explain to the forum how these tents sprouted legs and moved themselves into the pentagon area, or admit that they had to be brought there and you caught them redhanded bringing a tent into the area.







Russell Pickering helped loose change make their movie final cut. Notice loose change no longer promotes the idea of a missile at the pentagon? Guess why? Because they know a plane hit. And they all talked to the cabbie too. They were there, and Russell exposed those CIT frauds long ago. Don't promote their BS on this forum.
Here's the producer of loose change admitting they were wrong. A large plane hit the building......
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3634801432278945026&hl=en#

Rational sane honest researchers are leaving this movement. Russell Pickering was one. And you no planers on this very thread showed why that is happening. Stop falling for disinfo BS and wise up.

[Kilika]

Hey jimd3100,

Do you have ANY flying experience at all? Not talking riding Delta to your grandmothers house, but bonafide piloting a plane in a real scenario? How about real flight simulators that real pilots train in? I suspect not even close, because if you did, you'd have a clue as to what is possible in flight. I have the flight training pal, and there is no way no how that a commercial airliner hit the Pentagon. IMPOSSIBLE according to the two different flight paths claimed, especially the one that supposedly went over the hotel. At 400-500 knots? Impossible.

Try again jim, you've been suckered in like the rest because your ignorant as to what is possible with an aircraft. That path over the hotel, over the street, WITHOUT hitting any lightpoles that are closest to the Pentagon, and then get low enough to hit the building BELOW the roofline, yet not hit the ground or anything on the ground in the path?  The physics of flight won't allow it. At high speed, you cannot fly that low without it being sucked right down to the ground due to ground effects with the movement of air over the foils. The plane becomes extremely unstable to fly. Cannot be done!

Only non-pilots that have no clue would even try to believe the claims of an airliner hit the Pentagon. I suppose you know better than all the pilots that say no way, eh? Whatever, keep believing your delusions.

[jimd3100]

Only non-pilots that have no clue would even try to believe the claims of an airliner hit the Pentagon. I suppose you know better than all the pilots that say no way, eh? Whatever, keep believing your delusions.

I'm still waiting for you to show me a single witness to the event(and there were lots of them, and it was in broad daylight)that says anything other than a plane hit the building. Can't do it? Because on 9-11 planes flew into buildings. And every plane that has ever been flown and has ever landed flew close to the ground before it landed. As a pilot I think you would know that, but as a no planer I'm not surprised at anything.

This is an expert...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43P3cBPFx4U

Since we all know Hanni Hanjour was a terrible pilot, The Bush Administration thanks you for ignoring every single witness at the pentagon.

The plane was still descending when it went into the first floor of the pentagon. Oh, BTW...what happened to flight 77? Don't know? Didn't think so. The rescue crews picked up the parts of dead people and plane parts, when they went inside the pentagon. I bet they have a theory as well. Their "theory" is backed up by tons of witnesses, and physical evidence, not to mention common sense. Common sense is not flying a plane over the pentagon and hope "everyone is fooled" nor is it shooting a missile in broad daylight. When planes are already being used as missiles.

[Kilika]

I'm still waiting for you to show me a single witness to the event(and there were lots of them, and it was in broad daylight)that says anything other than a plane hit the building. Can't do it? Because on 9-11 planes flew into buildings. And every plane that has ever been flown and has ever landed flew close to the ground before it landed. As a pilot I think you would know that, but as a no planer I'm not surprised at anything.

This is an expert...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43P3cBPFx4U

Since we all know Hanni Hanjour was a terrible pilot, The Bush Administration thanks you for ignoring every single witness at the pentagon.

The plane was still descending when it went into the first floor of the pentagon. Oh, BTW...what happened to flight 77? Don't know? Didn't think so. The rescue crews picked up the parts of dead people and plane parts, when they went inside the pentagon. I bet they have a theory as well. Their "theory" is backed up by tons of witnesses, and physical evidence, not to mention common sense. Common sense is not flying a plane over the pentagon and hope "everyone is fooled" nor is it shooting a missile in broad daylight. When planes are already being used as missiles.

I'm not a pilot, nor have I ever held a pilot's license of any kind. I worked in the US Navy on F-14 and F-4 fighter jet simulators as a maintenace/operator tech, and logged Lord knows how many hours of flight time, including air combat scenarios operating the actual weapons systems that are used in the real aircraft, but yes, I can fly, of that I have no doubt. That is if I could figure out how to start the thing!

Landing speed is WAY slower than even cruising speed. Most all aircraft will have a landing speed under 200 knots. The F-14 was about 160.

You already have the best witness, it's called physics. People aren't reliable. I really don't care what happened to other aircraft, as it's not relivent to what actually hit the building. All I'm saying is that no way a commercial airliner of the size they claim hit the Pentagon. THAT is what I'm saying. I'm not even saying what it actually was, because I don't know beyond it was not the size of a commercial airliner.

Also titanium doesn't vaporize! And if over 80 security cameras in the area didn't pick up the event, then no wonder it got hit because the security sucked that day. I wonder why? Hmm, if they had actual footage that proves what they claim, why have they not produce it? If what they say is true, it sure won't damage their case, unless, what they claim is false. Then they got a big problem.

[jimd3100]

Also titanium doesn't vaporize!

Uh, who said it vaporized?  Oh, that's right Loose change did in an earlier movie. You are not paying attention. Loose change does not believe that anymore. And since we both agree that titanium doesn't vaporize that would explain this....


And this......

"The airplane had nearly disintegrated, but Dan Fitch's group found several huge cogs, bent and blackened, that weighed a couple hundred pounds each; it took a couple of workers to handle each one. Other objects nearby looked like large gears, and strips of metal that appeared to be fan blades. Workers realized that they were pulling apart the remnants of one of the aircraft's two engines. The aluminum cowling that had encased it all had been torn away, but the guts of the engine were there.

FEMA crews used a blowtorch to free the core of the motor from the column in which it was embedded. Then Fitch and several others used pieces of six-by-six to pry the motor loose from the column and push it off the pile. With the help of some Old Guard troops, they rolled the heavy piece of machinery onto a dolly and finally managed to push it outside. The whole effort took the better part of an entire shift."  Firefight, Page 425.
http://www.amazon.com/Firefight-Inside-Battle-Save-Pentagon/dp/0891419055

That's planted evidence? "That's a heckofa job brownie" to paraphrase Lord Bush

And if over 80 security cameras in the area didn't pick up the event, then no wonder it got hit because the security sucked that day. I wonder why? Hmm, if they had actual footage that proves what they claim, why have they not produce it? If what they say is true, it sure won't damage their case, unless, what they claim is false. Then they got a big problem.

Oh, come on. Are we going to be honest or not. If they released a video of a plane hitting the building everyone knows you'd say it was fake. Why would they anyway, this only helps them. You think the rest of the world are ignoring what the rescue workers found when they went inside? No, only so called "truthers" do that. That's not very truthfull. Is the rest of the world ignoring every witness that was there unless we use them and distort their testimony? No, only so called "truthers" do that, and you still can't see the damage this does to a "truth" movement? Besides, everything you want to know about the videos is right here....
http://flight77.info/85videos.html

I doubt that they have a video of an impact other than the shitty thing they have already released. If they did it's gone, because they are already on the record saying they don't. If I was them I would love the idea of "truthers" calling the witnesses all liars and being in on it to support a ridiculous no plane theory. It only helps them

[agentbluescreen]

Hey jimd3100,

Do you have ANY flying experience at all? Not talking riding Delta to your grandmothers house, but bonafide piloting a plane in a real scenario? How about real flight simulators that real pilots train in? I suspect not even close, because if you did, you'd have a clue as to what is possible in flight. I have the flight training pal, and there is no way no how that a commercial airliner hit the Pentagon. IMPOSSIBLE according to the two different flight paths claimed, especially the one that supposedly went over the hotel. At 400-500 knots? Impossible.

Try again jim, you've been suckered in like the rest because your ignorant as to what is possible with an aircraft. That path over the hotel, over the street, WITHOUT hitting any lightpoles that are closest to the Pentagon, and then get low enough to hit the building BELOW the roofline, yet not hit the ground or anything on the ground in the path?  The physics of flight won't allow it. At high speed, you cannot fly that low without it being sucked right down to the ground due to ground effects with the movement of air over the foils. The plane becomes extremely unstable to fly. Cannot be done!

Only non-pilots that have no clue would even try to believe the claims of an airliner hit the Pentagon. I suppose you know better than all the pilots that say no way, eh? Whatever, keep believing your delusions.

The upper towed "missile trailer package" undoubtedly contained some fairly compact and elongated selected "aircraft wreckage" which upon missile impact would have ricocheted off the face of the building and ended up conveniently strewn about on the lawn, together with the famous "FDR" that makes no sense. Any jet engines or stored aircraft parts could have been inside the largely unoccupied-yet building, but there is no way that either of the two from any flying 757 "flew" into it's first floor, the damn plane itself is three stories high

We only have one low resolution too-long exposure video of this missile and tow package from too far away but it was clearly flying a straight and level barely descending trajectory at a steady altitude of about 5' to 9' far, far too low to be any commercial jet without thrust reversers enabled and gear down at a half that speed, in which case only the two engines would go in and the rest would bounce off.  The hardest heaviest things on the plane are those two engines, there is no way the aluminum nose and fuselage went in unless the aluminum wings and the two engines ALL did.

Whatever made that hole had no wings below it, nor huge engines below them.

[Kilika]

You are not paying attention.

Absolutely, I don't pay attention to "Loose Change" stuff. I leave that to the fanboys. That whole crowd has become some kind of cult or something. In fact, my whole position is based on my experience gained over 20 years ago, and not from some viral video.

My point about titanium is that yes, there were parts found supposedly, but they are not proven to be the parts from the aircraft in question, so far as I have seen.

Look, I'm tired of discussing this with a wall. You believe whatever you want, but your shilling for the wrong side pal. Don't you think it strange that after all these years, they still refuse to release virtually anything that proves what hit, and who hit it? They claim some guys, 2-3 were on the plane and were terrorists. So where is the proof? Where is the trials?

Wait, you can't have a trial if the defendent is dead! And they claim the defendents are dead, so how can they compromise the case by releasing the evidence? We all know the answer, yet here we are, still being bold-faced lied to by the government.

[citizenx]

My point about titanium is that yes, there were parts found supposedly, but they are not proven to be the parts from the aircraft in question, so far as I have seen.

Precisely, so they were either planted or it was another kind of aircraft.  The idea of these parts being inserted into or towed behind a missile seems highly implausible.

[Kilika]

Remember, that whole section had been under construction for at least weeks prior. Hmm, can you say opportunity?

[jimd3100]

The upper towed "missile trailer package" undoubtedly contained some fairly compact and elongated selected "aircraft wreckage" which upon missile impact would have ricocheted off the face of the building and ended up conveniently strewn about on the lawn, together with the famous "FDR" that makes no sense. Any jet engines or stored aircraft parts could have been inside the largely unoccupied-yet building, but there is no way that either of the two from any flying 757 "flew" into it's first floor, the damn plane itself is three stories high

We only have one low resolution too-long exposure video of this missile and tow package from too far away but it was clearly flying a straight and level barely descending trajectory at a steady altitude of about 5' to 9' far, far too low to be any commercial jet without thrust reversers enabled and gear down at a half that speed, in which case only the two engines would go in and the rest would bounce off.  The hardest heaviest things on the plane are those two engines, there is no way the aluminum nose and fuselage went in unless the aluminum wings and the two engines ALL did.

Whatever made that hole had no wings below it, nor huge engines below them.

Tell us the story of how a tent sprouted legs and walked itself toward the pentagon, and how pentagonresearch.com was taken down by the feds when it exposed the walking tents. You've already been exposed as a clueless fraud.

[jimd3100]

My point about titanium is that yes, there were parts found supposedly, but they are not proven to be the parts from the aircraft in question, so far as I have seen.

Explain to the forum how these parts have been proven to not come from the plane that the witnesses claim had just flew into the pentagon.

Look, I'm tired of discussing this with a wall. You believe whatever you want, but your shilling for the wrong side pal.

Are you claiming I'm "in on it" or am "undercover fed"? You seem confused. You are the one going by your "beliefs", I'm going by physical evidence, eyewitness testimony and radar data. Not to mention common sense. Common sense says they are not going to fly a passenger jet over the pentagon and hope everyone is fooled. Nor will they shoot a missile at it in broad daylight in front of lots and lots of people, when planes are already being used as missiles.

Don't you think it strange that after all these years, they still refuse to release virtually anything that proves what hit, and who hit it?

Prove to the forum that there is a tape hidden away showing what hit the pentagon. Who has seen this tape and how long is it, and where is it being held, or admit this is yet another "belief" of yours.  Beliefs= evidence of the no planers.

They claim some guys, 2-3 were on the plane and were terrorists. So where is the proof?

They have proof tickets were purchased, their names are on the manifest and they are on video (the ones for flight 77, which had a working video camera) the calls from the planes are also proof, but you make up silly stories like fake phone calls, to protect Bush and Rice and insult the families.

[jimd3100]

Precisely, so they were either planted or it was another kind of aircraft.  The idea of these parts being inserted into or towed behind a missile seems highly implausible.

Give up on your missile witness? Explain to the forum what kind of plane the recovered parts were from or admit they came from a passenger jet. Show us the evidence that the parts were planted, or admit this is nothing but a belief.

[citizenx]

Give up on your missile witness? Explain to the forum what kind of plane the recovered parts were from or admit they came from a passenger jet. Show us the evidence that the parts were planted, or admit this is nothing but a belief.

Jim, you must be thinking of someone else. I never said anything about a missile witness.  Actually, despite your slightly antagonistic tone, I have actually been coming around to someting like your point-of-view. It bothers me that someon like Stubblebine (former Psych-ops) would be supporting the missile theory. (With friends like that, who needs enemas!)

On the other hand many credible pilots have attested that given the flight characteristincs of the 757 and the trajectory which the gov't theor says the plane took, that it is impossible that this particular aircraft was the aircraft that crashed into the Pentagon that day. Can you positively identify the engine parts as those of a 757?

[Kilika]

Explain to the forum how these parts have been proven to not come from the plane that the witnesses claim had just flew into the pentagon.

 
Are you claiming I'm "in on it" or am "undercover fed"? You seem confused. You are the one going by your "beliefs", I'm going by physical evidence, eyewitness testimony and radar data. Not to mention common sense. Common sense says they are not going to fly a passenger jet over the pentagon and hope everyone is fooled. Nor will they shoot a missile at it in broad daylight in front of lots and lots of people, when planes are already being used as missiles.
 

Prove to the forum that there is a tape hidden away showing what hit the pentagon. Who has seen this tape and how long is it, and where is it being held, or admit this is yet another "belief" of yours.  Beliefs= evidence of the no planers.
 
They have proof tickets were purchased, their names are on the manifest and they are on video (the ones for flight 77, which had a working video camera) the calls from the planes are also proof, but you make up silly stories like fake phone calls, to protect Bush and Rice and insult the families.

Look, trying to put words in my mouth that I never said won't get you anywhere but show your wong. You obviously side with the official story, regardless of the evidence or lack there of. The government is right till proven wrong is what your basically saying.

See, your saying the same things as the government by saying prove them wrong. You got it backwards. They are suppose to prove, beyond a shadow of doubt their claims are true.

Besides, what you say is plain absurd and typical government speak. How the heck can anybody prove they have a tape they refused to release? Get real dude. You know full well that can't happen. It's a strawman argument.

What I believe is the governent needs to produce evidence that proves their claims, and people like you need to stop siding with the official story and demand real proof. You know full well the government is sitting on evidence they don't want released.

Airline tickets? Seriously, that is proof that somebody was even on a flight? You really believe that? I suppose tickets or documents have never been faked? Man are you naive, and I'm done talking with you because your clueless and closed-minded, and are the governments best type of witness that you demand so much. You'd make a star witness for the governments case.

[agentbluescreen]

Give up on your missile witness? Explain to the forum what kind of plane the recovered parts were from or admit they came from a passenger jet. Show us the evidence that the parts were planted, or admit this is nothing but a belief.

For three years prior to the staged event the entire outer wall of that wing of the Pentagon was removed and that whole outer ring rebuilt and it was even claimed to have been "hardened". During that period any parts of any size including a flight recorder seats windows an engine or two you name it, all could have been easily stored/planted in there, but for some miscellaneous debris to be left mysteriously strewn about here and there on the lawn, that would require a secondary delivery and dispersal method.

Go to Pilots for 911 Truth and review the phony flight recorder analysis of the impossible acrobatics, the cockpit door that never opened once during the entire flight after takeoff and the mystery un-singed internal parts found on the lawn, when no/few external parts (and none of them singed) where left there or identified and the totally incongruous initial exterior and internal damage to the building structure.

Then there's the small matter of office furniture and open books left completely unburnt visible through the now missing walls where a supposed vast "liquid kerosene fire" had raged.

The aircraft as a missile theory simply fails in so many ways on so many levels that it must be discounted as a valid explanation. Most all of the valid evidence discredits and disproves it.

Since, for the first time in the entire recorded history of the earth, there has never been any impartial nor valid thorough official criminal nor NTSB investigation (presumably because there was no "air-crash?) it is totally inappropriate to arrive at any firm conclusions whatsoever. Stubblebine is 100% correct.

Then there's the matter of the C130 landing shortly thereafter at Reagan the witnesses who smelled cordite, the witnesses who saw a plane fly over and beyond the Pentagon - it's all too obvious.

Yes Virginia there was a plane. Nothing in the plentiful evidence of the crimes dismisses that simple fact...

[HEBGB]

Try this on for size......pretty good stuff if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjRVC2-SP9g

[HEBGB]

And this one is good to.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gehmLdYK_48

[HEBGB]

What would have happened to the cars on the road if a 757 would flown over at FULL throttle lower than a 30 foot light pole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTY2MG-AgKQ&feature=related

[agentbluescreen]

Tell us the story of how a tent sprouted legs and walked itself toward the pentagon, and how pentagonresearch.com was taken down by the feds when it exposed the walking tents. You've already been exposed as a clueless fraud.

I just did. Kindly give us your alternate explanation of/for the purpose of the clearly and distinctly proven existence of the alleged "Smoking JPAD"?

[HEBGB]

How about this tiny little bird?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mthiIOhCUSE&feature=related

[Michal Ptacnik]

To the physicists out there: It is certainly possible with some agreeable margin of error, to deduce the speed of the aircraft, either from the official sources or from doing the maths on the original FBI camera shots, from the speed of the procession of the frames in that camera.

Then, it would be possible to compute the energy released, the damage done and all those neat figures, pertaining the plane and the building, again, with an agreeable margin of error.

That way, we can rest the case. If we found out the energy and the forces working on the plane would be enough upon the impact to completely obliterate the whole of it's frame, and somehow account for the fact of the relatively undamaged exterior of the building (sic. some kind of an insulation material that is super-strong, etc.), we can safely say that it is possible that the plane did indeed hit the Pentagon.

Otherwise, if it is impossible, then, as Sherlock Holmes would point out, after the impossible is left out, the last option, even if improbable, must be the truth.

[agentbluescreen]

Try this on for size......pretty good stuff if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjRVC2-SP9g

In this video note how clearly the ground effect (below 80 feet) invariably and uncontrollably most assuredly sucks either one or the other wing and jet engine down first to either side (one side). No airliner can cruise nor remain airborne below this "hard deck" altitude level, no matter how well controlled. The air in front of a jet engine is a vast low pressure wavefront, like bringing a giant vacuum hose towards a curtain, without instant thrust reversal (to neutralize the wavefronts deflecting high pressure forwards) and gear down it's impossible to avoid inevitably "first-sucking the tarmac" with either one or the other wavefronts at any speed.

Level 'jet propulsion' without stand-off wheels and rearwards center of gravity counter-weighing, is simply impossible at such surface hugging altitudes. only a rocket or top-intake scramjet missile can do this.

[HEBGB]

Here is C130 that the wings were torn off of just because it LANDED too hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q&feature=related

[agentbluescreen]

Here is C130 that the wings were torn off of just because it LANDED too hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q&feature=related

You know unless they turned the whole outer ring of the Pentagon into a Super mini-LHC with energy levels unachieved ever-before, the very notion that any "jet airliner" could EVER be sucked WHOLE into a barely 18 foot garage door opening in the blink of an eye is pure balderdash.

[agentbluescreen]

I may not be a kid, but I wasn't born yesterday either.

There is no way that what was being removed from the lawn that very morning before the fire trucks left WAS anything at all, in other than color scheme, what they later tried to say it was.

Look at these two pictures, and take a wild guess as to what website exposed long ago that is just a tent. Explain to the forum how these tents sprouted legs and moved themselves into the pentagon area, or admit that they had to be brought there and you caught them redhanded bringing a tent into the area.

^^ STANDARD KOREAN WAR ERA 16' WIDE JAMESWAY QUONSET HUT ^^
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\/\/ CUSTOM 5' WIDE COVERED (USED) JPAD MISSILE LAUNCHER AND AIRDROP PALLET \/\/


What an ever so clever and childish trick. Your lack of both camping and military experience is showing Jimd. There is no way by clear photographic perspective alone that what these guys are carrying is either that wide, that high nor that long. Just look at the side-curvature!

Kindly provide us the mil-spec supply procurement number for this "standard military quonset tent"  with the flaming white and blue "aerial bulls-eye" crafted roof?  LOL

 I can, they are 16' WIDE X 20' LONG windowless insulated models designed for heating and use in non-combat rapid-deployment Arctic conditions.

They are wood and telescopic steel or aluminum and come (and go) in a small crate the size of a coffee table. If you tried to "roll one up" with the base ends squeezed down to 5' it would look like a jet engine cowling.

The 5' WIDE X 10' LONG thing those guys were hustling off the lawn that morning was most definitely not one of those, it had a pallet and unique articulated lunch-tube-nose front door with side slits, those much larger quick-assemble/disassemble huts have a center zipper, not side ones. A Jamesway cannot be moved half nor fully assembled at some other, smaller than full size. The top white part of this is only a narrow "I".

The similar color schemes were obviously chosen to facilitate the ruse, and to ensure it's visibility and drop position prior to the firing order

They don't come in red and white either...

[agentbluescreen]

I mean >AS IF< They keep preassembled Arctic Jamesway Quonsets in "their garage" at the Pentagon somewhere for "lawn emergencies" ....   ROTFLMAO

and you believe that?

That's a kind of very hard and wooden looking military-gray painted hardwood pallet-kinda "gray tarp floor" lol

[agentbluescreen]

http://www.calacademy.org/medialibrary/blogs/thelongview/2009/06/antarctic-item-062-jamesways-part-1/

Officially called Tent Frame Insulated Sectional M-1948, the Jamesway was created by
the James Manufacturing Company of Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin for the Army Air Corps.
It was specifically designed for polar weather conditions which require rapid construc-
tion and adequate protection from wind and cold. The standard size is 16 feet square,
further expandable lengthwise by four-foot segments. Most wonderful to me is that its
wooden packing crates were designed for reuse as the hut floor — recalling Shackle-
ton’s own repurposing of packing crates. Talk about déjà vu!

..in the arctic, the crate sides bottoms and lids are simply laid down on the ground comprising enough insulated surface to form a hard floor and/or save the lawn... unless of course you are going to completely excavate and landscape again to permanently remove all traces of evidence from a crime scene, forever, afterwards. Then you just put a dirty gray tarp down...

[H0llyw00d]

I'm still waiting for you to show me a single witness to the event(and there were lots of them, and it was in broad daylight)that says anything other than a plane hit the building.

I was approximately 3/4 mile away from it that morning, was doing a service call and stuck in traffic. I remember listening to Stern's show on the FM earlier that morning, when 1 of his side kicks was mumbling about a WTC building just exploded, and Howard thought they were just goofing on him, then shortly after, the 2nd tower got hit. Howard pretty much cut out the clowning and actually apologized & went off air because even he smelled attacks. This is what i was pondering while i was radio surfing for more "news" (have no faith or belief in the mass media news circus), hoping for NPR somewhere and wondering who the hell was blowing up NY, when i heard this immense engine sound and because i was heading away from pentagon, doing 45mph i had to turn and look back, all while driving in zany DC traffic. What i saw was so surreal, it looked like a white skinny pencil trailed by this zig-zag shaped white smoke running parallel to ground but this was @ quite a distance and hard to make out details. It was so quick & to try and mentally piece together what was happening @ that very moment it was evolving in front of my eyes, the fireball kinda took everything out of the picture by then. A lot of commuters had stopped or slowed by now, and i pulled over as well. First thing i can tell you, i saw 2 aircraft way, way off the horizon, 1 coming this way, the other was going from left to right, away from the Pentagon. I noticed these because I was fearing WW3 has now officially @ this point. So my friend, I dont know what it was, but after doing some size research, I can say w/ 100% assured accuracy that it was TOO SMALL to be a Boeing. I'm not going to even try and explain what happened, all I want to know is WHO really, truly did these horrendous deeds, and that we bring justice to the real perpetrators, and lose this Bullshit joke of an excuse for a law, "Patriot Act", and bring back our Constitution.

The plane was still descending when it went into the first floor of the pentagon.

from what I barely witnessed (see above), and from the infamous 5 frames itself from the apparently ONLY working pentagon security camera that day, shows no decent.

[agentbluescreen]

BTW jimd, the framework of a modern Jamesway is built on 4' centers, that JPADS pallet frame has 20" centers.

Only the oldest wooden Korean War era ones had 24" X 48" wooden frameworks. There is no (even snow load) reason to have a doubled (2' on vertical center) "arch" framework in that sort of a hut. Such doubling of the vertical studs would make it's packing/packaging unwieldily, unworkable and unsuitable. A standard old M-1948 came in a few small easy-tote interlocking floor crates, the new lighter aluminum ones in your Pentagon photo come with the newer compound interlocking/reconfigurable optional floor/crate. (which you can see were merely casually left on the lawn nearby).

Here's the basic assembly and service manual for the oldest wooden 2' horizontal stretcher X 4' arch center Korean-era types
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29203455/tm-10-8340-210-13-MAINTENANCE-MANUAL-TENT-FRAME·TYPE-SECTIONAL-ALL-WEATHER-HOUSING-WITH-DOOR-AND-WINDOW-ASSEMBLIES-WOOD-FLOOR-DIMENSIONS-16-FT

You will note that although floor re-assembly out of the recyclable crate components may be optional on a flat and level camp site installation, the floor itself is non essential and non structural-grade. It is simply an insulated interlocking ground covering that conveniently fits for storage and use within an assembled tent, it cannot be moved about nor carried anywhere once laid out in that configuration, without being damaged by it's own weight.

Neither can this sort of a hut EVER IN ANY WAY POSSIBLY be moved without striking and then reassembling it, a job that used to take a standard crew of 8 men 49 minutes (with a door and end windows). The four foot apart, four foot span horizontal wall stretchers are not strong enough to support the arch and covering weights. The newer arches fit into ground pegs and it now only takes a 2 man crew to erect or strike a plain, cheap, made-in China blue-tarp "canvas" ended one..

I guarantee you it'd take 10 men standing perfectly equidistantly inside such a 16' X 20' unit of this sort to get it off the ground in one piece, and any outdoor breeze that came by would destroy it, or blow them away.

[citizenx]

I was approximately 3/4 mile away from it that morning, was doing a service call and stuck in traffic. I remember listening to Stern's show on the FM earlier that morning, when 1 of his side kicks was mumbling about a WTC building just exploded, and Howard thought they were just goofing on him, then shortly after, the 2nd tower got hit. Howard pretty much cut out the clowning and actually apologized & went off air because even he smelled attacks. This is what i was pondering while i was radio surfing for more "news" (have no faith or belief in the mass media news circus), hoping for NPR somewhere and wondering who the hell was blowing up NY, when i heard this immense engine sound and because i was heading away from pentagon, doing 45mph i had to turn and look back, all while driving in zany DC traffic. What i saw was so surreal, it looked like a white skinny pencil trailed by this zig-zag shaped white smoke running parallel to ground but this was @ quite a distance and hard to make out details. It was so quick & to try and mentally piece together what was happening @ that very moment it was evolving in front of my eyes, the fireball kinda took everything out of the picture by then. A lot of commuters had stopped or slowed by now, and i pulled over as well. First thing i can tell you, i saw 2 aircraft way, way off the horizon, 1 coming this way, the other was going from left to right, away from the Pentagon. I noticed these because I was fearing WW3 has now officially @ this point. So my friend, I dont know what it was, but after doing some size research, I can say w/ 100% assured accuracy that it was TOO SMALL to be a Boeing. I'm not going to even try and explain what happened, all I want to know is WHO really, truly did these horrendous deeds, and that we bring justice to the real perpetrators, and lose this Bullshit joke of an excuse for a law, "Patriot Act", and bring back our Constitution.

from what I barely witnessed (see above), and from the infamous 5 frames itself from the apparently ONLY working pentagon security camera that day, shows no decent.

So, I guess there is your witness, Jim.  I'll let you interrogate.  This should be interesting.  May the best man win.

[agentbluescreen]

I was approximately 3/4 mile away from it that morning, was doing a service call and stuck in traffic. I remember listening to Stern's show on the FM earlier that morning, when 1 of his side kicks was mumbling about a WTC building just exploded
 /clip/ This is what i was pondering while i was radio surfing for more "news" (have no faith or belief in the mass media news circus), hoping for NPR somewhere and wondering who the hell was blowing up NY, when i heard this immense engine sound and because i was heading away from pentagon, doing 45mph i had to turn and look back, all while driving in zany DC traffic. What i saw was so surreal, it looked like a white skinny pencil trailed by this zig-zag shaped white smoke running parallel to ground but this was @ quite a distance and hard to make out details. It was so quick & to try and mentally piece together what was happening @ that very moment it was evolving in front of my eyes, the fireball kinda took everything out of the picture by then. A lot of commuters had stopped or slowed by now, and i pulled over as well. First thing i can tell you, i saw 2 aircraft way, way off the horizon, 1 coming this way, the other was going from left to right, away from the Pentagon. I noticed these because I was fearing WW3 has now officially @ this point. So my friend, I dont know what it was, but after doing some size research, I can say w/ 100% assured accuracy that it was TOO SMALL to be a Boeing. //clip //
from what I barely witnessed (see above), and from the infamous 5 frames itself from the apparently ONLY working pentagon security camera that day, shows no descent.

 Thanks kindly!

IT IS precisely this "immense cold bearing ascending RPM ramjet scream" sound that the firing of a cruise missile makes BEFORE reaching operating temperatures and velocities. Thus, you first HEARD (even allowing for the delay of sound) it going off in enough time to see it flying to it's target...

This is an especially disturbing and frightening rising doppler sound effect, because no matter where you are in relation to it, it sounds like it is approaching...

A crashing jet engine only makes such an imbalanced descending note shaft bearing scream sound AFTER impact and/or ingestion of foreign matter or under bearing load thrust reversal "pressure asphyxiation" at and after the final point of impact/breakup.

If you had HEARD a "jet engine" crashing it would have been AFTER SEEING the explosion.