Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors

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Offline maddog3n

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« on: August 17, 2007, 12:31:09 AM »
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-15-mexnursinghome_N.ht

Seniors head south to Mexican nursing homes
By Chris Hawley, USA TODAY
AJIJIC, Mexico — After Jean Douglas turned 70, she realized she couldn't take care of herself anymore. Her knees were giving out, and winters in Bandon, Ore., were getting harder to bear alone.

Douglas was shocked by the high cost and impersonal care at assisted-living facilities near her home. After searching the Internet for other options, she joined a small but steadily growing number of Americans who are moving across the border to nursing homes in Mexico, where the sun is bright and the living is cheap.

For $1,300 a month — a quarter of what an average nursing home costs in Oregon — Douglas gets a studio apartment, three meals a day, laundry and cleaning service, and 24-hour care from an attentive staff, many of whom speak English. She wakes up every morning next to a glimmering mountain lake, and the average annual high temperature is a toasty 79 degrees.

"It is paradise," says Douglas, 74. "If you need help living or coping, this is the place to be. I don't know that there is such a thing back (in the USA), and certainly not for this amount of money."

As millions of baby boomers reach retirement age and U.S. health care costs soar, Mexican nursing home managers expect more American seniors to head south in coming years. Mexico's proximity to the USA, low labor costs and warm climate make it attractive, although residents caution that quality of care varies greatly in an industry that is just getting off the ground here.


The rest of the story can be found on the above link
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Offline Capt. Obvious

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 11:47:36 AM »
This is why we don't want national healthcare

Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
By Laura Donnelly, Health Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:09am GMT 28/01/2008

Doctors are calling for NHS treatment to be withheld from patients who are too old or who lead unhealthy lives.

Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations, according to doctors, with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.
[snip]
Managers defend the policies because of the higher risk of complications on the operating table for unfit patients. But critics believe that patients are being denied care simply to save money.


full article here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/27/nhs127.xml

Offline IridiumKEPfactor

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 12:02:02 PM »
Can you say, eugenics?

Man, I thought that I would never hear doctors say those words but this is the brave new world that we are living in.

Offline jeronimous

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 12:15:48 PM »
But Chavez, Castro, Ché, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler (nazism stood for national socialism after all) say that communism/socialism is goooooood.
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Offline Melody

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 02:32:14 PM »
Does this speak more to the inherently finance-driven nature of the practice of medicine nowadays or to the utter lack of personal responsibility in the average patient? I suppose it's no coincidence that as more people get less healthy, more hospitals will agree to treat less people. Eugenicist sons of bitches.

Either way, I'm just thankful for my health.
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Offline Overcast

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 02:41:59 PM »
But Chavez, Castro, Ché, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler (nazism stood for national socialism after all) say that communism/socialism is goooooood.

Yes, I'd imagine 99 out of 100 dictators agree - the more control you have, the better.

Of course - a national healthcare system will not really work. But it must, if the NWO is to put everything in place to start inserting chips into us. So, they must find ways to 'make it work'.

Like... making a square peg fit into a round hole - you just need to cut off the corners, eh?
And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!

Offline Cruise4

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 02:46:29 PM »
The thing is... they will probably live longer by NOT going to see these quacks. I just had a read through the admitted moderated comments and the people are clueless about what is going on.

Offline Overcast

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 04:08:30 PM »
The thing is... they will probably live longer by NOT going to see these quacks. I just had a read through the admitted moderated comments and the people are clueless about what is going on.

Yeah, I have to agree... BUT there's a problem with that. Anymore - with your kids the schools will DEMAND they see doctors when *the school* thinks it's necessary.

We've already been through this, and now, I more or less have the school by the 'balls' so to speak.

See - what happened was my wife and I brought up an issue with our son to the school - telling them we thought, it was possible he was schizophrenic. They kinda just shrugged it off - well, one thing led to another, the condition got worse and the school does a 180 and then *demanded* we take him to the hospital - or they'd call in the uber-wing of der vaterland youth.... I mean, the Department of Children's Services..

So - ok, at this point, he was getting pretty unhinged, I had to agree. So we did - actually, they took him to the hospital - lying to him in the process - telling him they were 'just going for a ride'. They were two 'counselors' at the school - two he used to really trust. He no longer trusts them at all, but that's another story.

In any event.. this goes on, we follow up with a Therapist and Psychiatrist as well.

About a month later - I guess one of these same counselors asks my son if he's been taking his medicine. He says - in uncertain words - he wasn't taking it. While this wasn't the case at all - our loving counselor - ever zealous in her desire to please 'the state', decides to call children's services and report this.

The social worker comes to our house - in this time, my wife showed her calendars she had all the appointments listed on, full contacts for all the doctors and such my son was seeing. Filed instructions and full information sheets on the medications he was taking - yep, we wanted to full write up from the pharmaceutical company. In the end - my wife was explaining to the Children's Services worker - what each medicine was, why he was taking it, how often, the dosages and the Psychiatrists' full plan on what we would be doing. *keep in mind here - one of the meds he is taking CLEARLY marks one of the predominant side effects as possible lapses in memory* - in addition schizophrenia in itself will certainly cause memory problems. By the time the worker was done - she commented that my wife kept better track of the medical issues than even she or her own mother did, and had absolutely no question that there wasn't any real problem here.

At this point, we were pretty well pissed off - luckily, he was due for some lab tests. We talked to the doctor and had them also screen for the medications he was taking, as a precaution. So at this point, we had Children's Services 100% convinced he was getting the medication he needed exactly as prescribed. And - we had medical evidence to prove it.

I lit up the school on this. I was calm - but I drove the conversation and didn't give any room for 'dissent'. They lost their only 'avenue' of attack against us - Children's Services. More or less now, they have already shown once to have the potential to call them without any *real* evidence of wrong doing on our part. That's a tricky slope for them to navigate now.

It was kind of funny, the counselor comments that we may have taken it wrong - that it wasn't a 'hostile' act - I just told her, quickly in reply - would you mind if I call Children's Services and send them to your house then? *silence* - Never got an answer to that... lol

I told them - you FIRST need to call the parent. We could have easily informed you that not only his problem, but the medication he is taking both can cause problems with short term memory. The Psychiatrist agreed and also stated that it's best if medical professionals address issues like this, as the typical teacher at school does not have a medical degree (yes, she said to tell the school that). After that, I lit up on them about how *WE* first brought this issue up to the school, and in addition it was not our fault they didn't take the time to do any research on the problem he had or the medication he was on - and that it was common indeed for him to be forgetful. I was also quite emphatic that they should not make assumptions that parent's don't care about their kids and assume guilt right off the bat.

They were pretty quiet on the phone and have stepped very cautiously around us now. hehe.

But - fair warning, I've been about as far into this 'school tells you what to do' situation now as one can go..... I managed to - really, in the end get lucky that they did make that stupid move. Children's Services only visited once and the worker was 100% convinced we were doing everything we could.

If you do have any issues - let me tell you that *nothing* will help more than having a doctor on your side. The therapist has called the school twice and the psychiatrist at least once - to further 'educate' them on various issues. I'm in no way looking for a 'cop out' for my son - it took a while to admit and deal with - but he really does have an issue.

All in all though - it makes me curious... why... so many people seem to have 'mental' issues anymore.

Believe me - his isn't just for 'social security' money or any of that BS, we're not eligible, unless I quit my job - now, at one point, when I was getting paid less, we did qualify for medical (barely). Didn't even want the cash, I figure that more tax money out of my 'friend's' pocket - AKA fellow patriots.

But - for those of you who like the idea of 'national health care' - social security told me they will not cover his week long stay at the hospital...  Good Health care, eh? :)
And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!

Offline thadividedsky

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 06:12:03 PM »
Yer a truely good person to not dig a hole for that school. I personaly would have filed kidnapping charges for taking my child to the hospital without my consent, I would have calld DSS on the counselor and had HER kids taken away and on top of it, I would have filed a massive lawsuit on the school. Nobody f**ks with my family and gets away with it. I'll even go so far as to take the law into my own hands if someone hurts a family member of mine. My family are very dear to me and Im a very very vengeful person because of the life I had growing up. We need more good people like you in this world, being vengeful isn't really a good thing. It's the only way I know how to be though. Exorcise yer rights and protect yer child.
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Offline netizen_x

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 09:40:08 PM »
The thing is... they will probably live longer by NOT going to see these quacks. I just had a read through the admitted moderated comments and the people are clueless about what is going on.

I agree. Less treatment the better. If only they would stop treating all of us. I get the shivers even driving past a hospital and thinking about what is going on in there. My grandad lived to 93 by avoiding those places and he smoked like a chimney and drank like a fish.

Don't let the doctors get ya!
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Offline Sub-X

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2008, 12:31:22 PM »
More old people are denied basic care.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3270965.ece
January 29, 2008

A rapidly ageing population and a squeeze on local authority funding mean fewer old people now qualify for help to pay for assistance with washing, dressing and eating.

The annual report from the Commission for Social Care Inspection (CSCI) found that, despite a 3 per cent rise in the number of over-75s, there has been a fall in the number of elderly people receiving any services — from 867,000 in 2003 to 840,000 in 2006.

Those receiving funded care in their own homes has fallen from 479,000 in 1997 to 358,000 last year.

The Commission is particularly worried about the lack of help on offer when an older person fails to meet the increasingly strict eligibility criteria laid down by local authorities. In many cases families are not given any help to find private services, or are directed to local charities for advice.
 
“People who only five years ago qualified for council-arranged help are today excluded by the system and left to fend for themselves,” said Dame Denise Platt, chairman of the Commission.

“The poor experiences of people and their carers trying and failing to get sufficient help contrast starkly with those people who do qualify for council-arranged care. Many younger disabled people and frail older people are being "signposted' to voluntary services.

Many are forced to rely on help from family and informal arrangements which can break down at short notice. People unable to rely on families or friends and unable to pay for care services themselves are simply left to cope with everyday life, while some become virtually trapped in their own home.”

In response to the report, the Government has today begun a review into the criteria used by local authorities.

The CSCI report found that many town halls had moved to a system in which help is available only for cases judged as “substantial” or “critical” — with wide variations in how authorities interpreted such criteria. This could vary even within the same local authority, with different staff applying the rules differently.

Several other goverment reviews are also underway, on dementia care, end of life care and the role of unpaid carers. A Green Paper into the funding of social care is also promised.

People seeking help, and the families who often end up providing it, could be forgiven for greeting news of another government review with some scepticism. The thorny issue of who should pay for this fast growing bill has been the subject of several substantial government reviews in the past, including a Royal Commission set up by Tony Blair in 1998. Its recommendation that personal care should be free was rejected roundly then, confusingly, adopted in Scotland.

Campaigners believe that this time the government is getting the message and will act. Key to the political pressure are Britain's six million carers who look after elderly or disabled relatives. Millions more families are looking ahead to their parents' old age with dread, wondering how they will juggle their work commitments and bringing up their own children with looking after their mother and father, often living many hundreds of miles away.

Another recent report found no support at all for the hotchpotch of care provided by local authorities. People would be happy to pay for some care themselves, as long as the Government would guarantee some basic care for everyone, and more to the poorest.

That appears to be the way the Government is moving. Privately, ministers say they are unhappy that when it comes to residential care, for example, those with assets of less than £12,750 have everything paid for while those with more than £21,000 get nothing.

Progress may be slow. The vast sums involved mean that ministers will not rush into making expensive promises. Sweeping changes to the social care system may also run up against election planning. There is no timetable yet for the Green Paper and next year seems more likely than this. Any changes are likely to become manifesto pledges rather than pre-election legislation.

The Conservatives' social care committee, charged with forging a new policy, has not met since last spring.

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Offline NonCompliance

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Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008, 07:22:51 AM »
It is the sick who need a healer, not the healthy. Common sense is not so common.
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Offline Truthseeker93

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Re: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 05:12:18 PM »
It is the sick who need a healer, not the healthy. Common sense is not so common.

Gotta agree with you. And BTW perhaps if the society would be fed with garbage and constant radio signals they would be healthier.
"From the darkness we fight the darkness"