bkramer1984
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« on: March 22, 2010, 08:22:15 PM » |
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I am puzzled why I have never heard Alex Jones speak of Tim Turner and his movement to restore the republic. Maybe he has mentioned it before, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find much about the strawman and how the US is a corporation either. Tim's website is www.americacanbefree.com and he holds freedom seminars around the country teaching how to become a sovereign citizen. Based on my research of this topic, it is hard for me to prove this one way or another. From what I gather, if you go through the process of becoming a sovereign citizen you will be put on the radar screen and become a target. Supposedly you can discharge any public debt as well. In recent weeks I have heard Tim Turner speak about restoring the republic by setting up grand juries in each state. He says he has the support of the Supreme Court and the military. You can listen to Tim weekly on live calls every Wednesday. You can listen to the archived calls here: http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=46256&cmd=tc. It is pretty wild what is being discussed and I can't believe something this huge isn't being discussed by Alex. |
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phosphene
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2010, 09:14:40 PM » |
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From what I gather, if you go through the process of becoming a sovereign citizen...
1-nobody can be both sovereign and a citizen....that's an oxymoron. 2-You are born sovereign. Nobody has to "go through a process" 3- If you are "going through the process"(filing documents with the state), you have already acknowledged their authority over you. That's why you "submit" paperwork. |
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"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."--Joshua
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bkramer1984
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 06:29:53 AM » |
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Have you listened to any of Tim Turner's seminars? According to him, the United States is a corporation based out of Washington D.C. and we are all a part of the corporation from birth once we receive our birth certificate. You have to fill out a lot of paper work and send it to the Treasury Secretary (in this case Timothy Geitner) to declare sovereignty. There is a lot of history behind this and I can't do it justice with the knowledge that I have.
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citizenx
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 06:52:13 AM » |
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Have to agree with Phosphene oh this one, too. Why play their game?
I'm already "sovereign" and free. I don't need anybody's say-so. The corporation, if it is real, can go to hell.
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phosphene
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 12:37:54 PM » |
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Have you listened to any of Tim Turner's seminars? According to him, the United States is a corporation based out of Washington D.C. and we are all a part of the corporation from birth once we receive our birth certificate. You have to fill out a lot of paper work and send it to the Treasury Secretary (in this case Timothy Geitner) to declare sovereignty. There is a lot of history behind this and I can't do it justice with the knowledge that I have.
any contract is null and void if full disclosure was not present during the signing....this includes government contracts like drivers licenses, and SS cards. Nobody can be forced to join a corporation. IF my birth certificate is being used to contract me into to the USA corporation, I never signed it. Show me my signature. You might say "your parents signed the birth certificate". I would say..."so?" One must declare sovereignty. He cannot ask permission for it from his master/government/state/handler. That's why the paperwork "submissions" are wild goose chases. While the honorable thing to do, is to publicly announce your independence. You can do that with the newspaper, internet, television....you do not need to send a personal letter to tim geitner. |
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"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."--Joshua
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citizenx
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 02:33:49 PM » |
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Why do you need to publicly declare it, unles you want to? You are free already. It's not like your getting a business license, or declaring bankruptcy.
"Man is born free, yet everywhere he is in chains."
Rousseau
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bkramer1984
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 06:27:20 PM » |
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I am by no means an expert on this subject but I have watched one of Tim Turner's recent seminars. I was also contacted by someone who is working with Tim Turner and claims that he has declared his sovereignty and is in the process of discharging the debt of a friends mortgage with his bond.
What exactly are you basing your statements on? Are they based on your opinions based on what I just told you or do you already have knowledge of this subject? Not to be rude, but I'm more interested in information coming from someone that has actually studied this before and not just opinions based on what I posted.
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citizenx
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 06:56:04 PM » |
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Actually, I don't believe a mortagage should be declared null and void simply because you are a free and "sovereign" individual. With freedom come resposnibility, such as the responsibility to enter into and honor agreements, provided there is no fraud (a criminal offense).
There is much talk about "sovereign" individuals these days. Not all advocates believe that you should be able to skate out of mortgages or other contract, but that becuase you are a soverign individual there are certain rights and freedoms which cannot be taken away without your consent, possibly even with it.
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phosphene
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 07:16:55 PM » |
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Actually, I don't believe a mortagage should be declared null and void simply because you are a free and "sovereign" individual. With freedom come resposnibility, such as the responsibility to enter into and honor agreements, provided there is no fraud (a criminal offense).
There is much talk about "sovereign" individuals these days. Not all advocates believe that you should be able to skate out of mortgages or other contract, but that becuase you are a soverign individual there are certain rights and freedoms which cannot be taken away without your consent, possibly even with it.
bank loans are the fraud. The "money" doesn't exist until you sign the bank contract. The power of you signature brings the money into existence. Then the bank has enough balls to lend it to you, at interest (or are we stupid enough to agree?). And on top of that, the bank turns your signature into their assets and trades 10x your "loan" via the fractional reserve banking system. The bank never puts up anything, the bank never loses anything, the bank never even brings anything to the table. HOW I CLOBBERED EVERY BUREAUCRATIC CASH-CONFISCATORY AGENCY KNOWN TO MAN. A Spiritual Economics Book on $$$ and Remembering Who You Are by: Mary Elizabeth Croft http://www.thecrowhouse.com/Documents/mary-book.pdf |
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"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."--Joshua
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citizenx
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 07:46:06 PM » |
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I would say, if you take out a loan without the intention to pay it back, you are every bit as much a crook as the banks, and I don't particularly care for the banks.
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bkramer1984
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 08:26:39 PM » |
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Actually the loan does get paid off by your bond. I'm not exactly sure yet where the money is coming from exactly (maybe the treasury) but you aren't just not paying the loan off. Based on what I have heard, you basically take your mortgage, stamp it "accepted for value", and place your SSN on it (without dashes). I wish I could point you to more information but there simply isn't that much out there. You may want to take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbE4E769838. I would post the Tim Turner seminar on YouTube but I don't feel very comforable at this point doing so. People could get into some serious trouble if the process isn't done correctly. You will most likely have the Secret Service or the FBI pay you a visit as well. |
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bkramer1984
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 06:26:17 PM » |
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Has anyone here ever heard Alex talk about Tim Turner or the strawman or anything related? Has anyone here ever actually attended a Tim Turner seminar and followed the process? I personally am very hesitant to do go through the process myself because I'd probably be spending the majority of my time in court fighting it.
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phosphene
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 07:37:33 PM » |
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I personally am very hesitant to do go through the process myself because I'd probably be spending the majority of my time in court fighting it.
indeed. thats what i was saying in the 1st place. Sending the "government" a bunch of documents is just asking for trouble(in writing). You would spend the rest of your life in court/jail....the exact thing u were trying to avoid to begin with....the state sucking out all your energy and feeding on it....is that freedom? Using your SSN without dashes isnt gonna help ya. Putting fancy seals on envelopes aint gonna help ya. those are actually acts of submission. |
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"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."--Joshua
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bkramer1984
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 08:28:33 PM » |
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Listen to this live right now: http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=46256&cmd=tc
It is unbelievable what they are talking about. How could something this massive be taking place with Alex not picking up on it? I'm assuming they aren't just making this stuff up.
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goforward
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 08:29:11 PM » |
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I am puzzled why I have never heard Alex Jones speak of Tim Turner and his movement to restore the republic. Maybe he has mentioned it before, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find much about the strawman and how the US is a corporation either. Tim's website is www.americacanbefree.com and he holds freedom seminars around the country teaching how to become a sovereign citizen. Based on my research of this topic, it is hard for me to prove this one way or another. From what I gather, if you go through the process of becoming a sovereign citizen you will be put on the radar screen and become a target. Supposedly you can discharge any public debt as well. In recent weeks I have heard Tim Turner speak about restoring the republic by setting up grand juries in each state. He says he has the support of the Supreme Court and the military. You can listen to Tim weekly on live calls every Wednesday. You can listen to the archived calls here: http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=46256&cmd=tc. It is pretty wild what is being discussed and I can't believe something this huge isn't being discussed by Alex. He's had on Randy Kelton of Rule of Law Radio which also has the "Agenda 21 talk" program that gets into experimental law. Haven't heard it in a while. http://ruleoflawradio.com/Also Rodney Class has Talk shoe shows that get into more offensive aspects of law and ways of combating court fraud (not just the stuff of your name in caps and your last name being your corporate identity through DE law (not DC)) : http://www.futureamericanhistory.net/http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=48361&cmd=tc http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=17898&cmd=tca lot to listen too, but it seems like the most viable solution even though it boogles the mind |
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
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phosphene
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 11:37:32 PM » |
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Listen to this live right now: http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=46256&cmd=tc
It is unbelievable what they are talking about. How could something this massive be taking place with Alex not picking up on it? I'm assuming they aren't just making this stuff up.
none of these freeman theory people can show any evidence of even one successful case. Thats why Alex is not picking up on this. All these clowns do is sell "books" and "seats" at seminars. That's perfectly legal. And the info is very interesting. Hey, anyone who can convince people to drop 400 bux to listen to them talk for an hour...more power to em. The hard-core jail-time is inflicted on the suckahs who start sending whacky letters to the treasury dept. lol. |
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"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."--Joshua
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MonkeyPuppet
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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 12:06:21 AM » |
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I agree with others here who have stated it...
You are born a "sovereign" and free individual. Any contracts entered on your behalf by others, including your parents, are null and void. Their only power over you is your submission to them. We are not "forced" to use bank loans to purchase homes, but we are encouraged to do so, especially due to the inflated cost.
Most of the people pushing the "process" stuff are basing their information on the federal government using your birth certificate as a bond of some sort. With this theory, one should be able to "discharge" their debt against that instrument.
Whether this is true or not doesn't matter. Either way, it is your compliance with and involvement in the system which makes you subject to it... nothing else.
Why not spend all that energy, time and money on not basing your life choices around banking? Purchase your home, car and other possessions with cash. Grow your own food. Don't use banks for capital storage. Sure, it might take a while, but so will attempting to obtain documentation from the government that you're not a slave.
If you're just dead-set on practicing "sovereign" activities in the face of authority to incite a reaction, try reading your state's motor vehicle laws. I live in Texas where the law states very clearly that only vehicles operating on the public highways (not streets, roads, etc.) require registration, nor do individuals require a license to drive a motor vehicle except for on the public highways. Sure, driving an unregistered vehicle with no driver's license is totally legal off the highways, but I'd still be f*cked with constantly by the cops. Would this be "fun"? Perhaps for a little while, but I'd rather spend that energy, time and money on sh*t that actually matters... like land and independent sources of food and energy.
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citizenx
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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 01:48:44 AM » |
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The government is never going to give anyone a paper stating they are not a slave, or they are a "sovereign" individual. They never have and they never will. I defy anyone to show me such a fictional certificate. This is the most preposterous thing I have ever heard of.
I guess it would be a "Certificate of Manumission."
Show me yours and I 'll shut up.
Otherwise, get out of dodge.
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bkramer1984
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2010, 06:21:09 PM » |
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As I understand it, you don't receive anything from the government that you are "sovereign." You basically send in the information and if they don't decline it you become sovereign. Hopefully I'm explaining this correctly, but I'm probably not. I have not gone through the process and I don't plan to at this point because it is risky and extremely confusing.
On the audios that I posted, Tim talks about restoring the republic. He claims the military and the Supreme Court is on board with him. He is evidently setting up grand juries in every state and creating independent banks. This in itself is big enough for Alex to cover whether it is true or not.
I am also waiting on proof that a sovereign has actually won a court case or paid off debt. The guy I am in contact with claims he has, but I haven't seen the evidence. I spoke with a man who used this method in court to keep his radio station from being taken from him and he had Tim Turner help him in court. He said he won the case and kept his radio station. Again I can't confirm this. That is why I posted on this forum to find someone with personal experience with this. Opinions on whether you understand it or why you think it doesn't work are fine, but what I really want is someone with experience in the matter. Evidently it is extremely hard to find someone who has actually attempted this.
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citizenx
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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2010, 06:25:40 PM » |
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Kafkaesque!
If you don't receive any answer, you are free. LOL
What if it was just "lost in the mail"?
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phosphene
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2010, 07:49:25 PM » |
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As I understand it, you don't receive anything from the government that you are "sovereign." You basically send in the information and if they don't decline it you become sovereign. Hopefully I'm explaining this correctly, but I'm probably not. I have not gone through the process and I don't plan to at this point because it is risky and extremely confusing.
On the audios that I posted, Tim talks about restoring the republic. He claims the military and the Supreme Court is on board with him. He is evidently setting up grand juries in every state and creating independent banks. This in itself is big enough for Alex to cover whether it is true or not.
I am also waiting on proof that a sovereign has actually won a court case or paid off debt. The guy I am in contact with claims he has, but I haven't seen the evidence. I spoke with a man who used this method in court to keep his radio station from being taken from him and he had Tim Turner help him in court. He said he won the case and kept his radio station. Again I can't confirm this. That is why I posted on this forum to find someone with personal experience with this. Opinions on whether you understand it or why you think it doesn't work are fine, but what I really want is someone with experience in the matter. Evidently it is extremely hard to find someone who has actually attempted this.
each facet of the freeman movement has diff ideas for remedy. Some guys think you should write letters to the gov. Some guys think you should avoid their jurisdiction altogether. Some guys think you have to sign your checks in a certain way. Some guys think international treaties have something to do with it. Some guys think the trim on the flag in the courtroom makes a difference. Tim Turner is talking about using your strawman to becoming a "creditor", instead of being a "debtor"(if all money is either debt or credit....then create credit with your signature, instead of debt.) Judge David Wynn Miller believes that speaking and writing in mathematical algorithms will make you free.... http://dwmlc.com/But none of these freeman guys can demonstrate a single successful case. Because, in the end, it doesn't matter how "you" interpret "their" law. "they" wrote those laws. Those laws are their intellectual property. Their lawyers must pass strict exams and buy expensive licenses in order to have the privilege to practice that law. So, when you walk into their courtroom and start talkin' about "statute this", and "code that", you are trespassing on their licensed copyrighted intellectual property, and it pisses them off. A guy in a robe bangs a gavel and moves on to the next case. The cliche "2nd class citizen" is misleading...because it turns out that "citizen" means "2nd class". |
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"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."--Joshua
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dre4dwolf
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2011, 08:33:24 PM » |
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Apparently under some "Restore America" initiative, these guys seved the government with a declaration signed by each individual republic (all 50 states). This is an effort to restore the Old American Republic form of government, based on Lawful laws and honest grass roots 1776 style government. They explain honestly and clearly the true form of our existing Corporate Government.... they explain the fraud that the government is perpetuating. There is real potential here to take back the republic. Im curious what you all think? JMP: Tim Turner Republic Update http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB36UVnaNFQ&feature=player_embeddedThe video is a little long 1:50:00 but it was pretty easy to listen to, I think everyone should atleast give it a listen and consider it after. I would like to get a copy of all that paper work they filed. The segment the did is pretty informative... with any luck it will work and we will all peacefully manage to restore the Old Republic. http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.org/Supposedly this is now the only LAWFUL CONSTITUTIONAL GOVERNMENT operating on the North American Continent, they state that had they not done this By April 1st we would of been taken over by NATO. After the corporation falls apart, will this government step up to the plate? apparently he stated that the Queen has terminal Cancer atm and that she will be replaced by a new king not related. |
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dre4dwolf
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2011, 08:49:39 PM » |
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supposedly this government has enough gold to fund even what the current corporate government cant.
So to sum it up:
There is a Republic EXISTING in North America
They are planning to eliminate the IRS
They are already on Paper the only legal government operating in North America
They have enough physical GOLD to fund the government
They have insider information that the Corporate Government is winding down and falling apart.
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dre4dwolf
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« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2011, 09:11:33 PM » |
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dre4dwolf
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« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2011, 11:00:28 AM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0BUGSrkvTM&feature=feeduEnjoy, apparently these folks have setup a republic in America, they have managed to get most if not all the states to sign of on the change in government, they have taken the gold away from the IMF and the USA MILITARY stated they will defend and uphold the republic. The Republic making a come back?
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Optimus
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The banksters are steaming piles of dog shit!
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« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2011, 06:26:32 PM » |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0BUGSrkvTM&feature=feeduEnjoy, apparently these folks have setup a republic in America, they have managed to get most if not all the states to sign of on the change in government, they have taken the gold away from the IMF and the USA MILITARY stated they will defend and uphold the republic. The Republic making a come back? People have been working for years to get the states to declare their 10th Amendment sovereignty over the federal government, yet this guy has most, if not all the states to sign on to this? They managed to take back all the gold that the IMF has stolen? This doesn't appear to go along with the 10th Amendment movement but is counter to it, nor do I see any documentation of the claims being made in the video on Tim Turner's websites. http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.orghttp://dev.republicoftheunitedstates.orghttp://www.bureauofrepublicrecords.org/index.html |
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“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry
>>> Global Gulag Media & Forum <<< |
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« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2011, 07:23:19 PM » |
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I am puzzled why I have never heard Alex Jones speak of Tim Turner and his movement to restore the republic. Maybe he has mentioned it before, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find much about the strawman and how the US is a corporation either. Tim's website is www.americacanbefree.com and he holds freedom seminars around the country teaching how to become a sovereign citizen. Based on my research of this topic, it is hard for me to prove this one way or another. From what I gather, if you go through the process of becoming a sovereign citizen you will be put on the radar screen and become a target. Supposedly you can discharge any public debt as well. In recent weeks I have heard Tim Turner speak about restoring the republic by setting up grand juries in each state. He says he has the support of the Supreme Court and the military. You can listen to Tim weekly on live calls every Wednesday. You can listen to the archived calls here: http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=46256&cmd=tc. It is pretty wild what is being discussed and I can't believe something this huge isn't being discussed by Alex. I am puzzled why you are pushing a used car salesman's psyops mopronic ramblings on a truth forum. |
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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
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Optimus
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The banksters are steaming piles of dog shit!
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« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2011, 07:45:18 PM » |
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Listen to this live right now: http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=46256&cmd=tc
It is unbelievable what they are talking about. How could something this massive be taking place with Alex not picking up on it? I'm assuming they aren't just making this stuff up.
Because it's not legitimate is why you don't hear Alex talking about it. The states have the 9th and 10th Amendments to put the federal government back in it's place. We don't need some nutjob coming along throwing a munkeywrench in the works with delusions he is the president. |
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“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry
>>> Global Gulag Media & Forum <<< |
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WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2011, 08:19:39 PM » |
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the user pushing this BS is probably the "expert" he is talking about. You might as well send a letter to the IRS asking for an in-depth audit and another letter to the FBI saying "put me on every watchlist you have, including the no fly list please"
I mean seriously, who is dumb enough to fall for this crap. This is like the people pushing the $300 courses where they teach you how you don't have to pay federal income tax. The fact is, the IRS WILL F you up in every way shape and form. No audio course is going to stop that.
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adissenter2
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« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2011, 08:39:10 PM » |
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! Molon Labe! Come and take them!
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dre4dwolf
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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2011, 08:42:41 PM » |
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All valid points, but the truth is that its all true believe it or not. (the part of becoming your own creditor)
Personal sources of confirmation:
3 Bankers on 3 separate occasions
2 Lawyers
1 judge
I can't disclose personal information of my sources, because they would cut me off from the information I need for personal reasons.
I have seen friends wipe out thousands in credit card "debt" with simple notices, I have seen bankers run in fear upon mention of some of this stuff...
Believe what you want, but the truth is that the strawman illusion is VERY REAL, the truth is that ALL DEBT is an ILLUSION, they have everyone bamboozled, they have succeeded in setting up a system where the few dominate the many by control over the monetary / "credit" system.
The elite are rich not because they work hard, its because they control the issuance of credit, which for all intents and purposes is "money", the rockefellers/rothschilds of the world, control the creation and trafficking of worthless credit, which we all blindly accept as money (not even talking about the fed here, this goes beyond that....)
If you are not aware of this, you have done yourself a great misfortune by not investigating the matter.
As for this Tuner fellow, I don't know what o make of him, but hell I choose his govt philosophy over alex's or obamas.
Just get rid of the entire Govt we have now and put back a LAWFUL Govt.
If what these people where doing is fraud, the banks would outright reject the claims, they can't because in reality through the securitization process the "debtor" has more of a claim to the proceeds of any "loan" than the "creditor (third party debtor in reality)" does.
After all we have learned in the past 10 years, do you all really trust a government site as a source of honest information?
A man has the right to choose his allegiance or the choice to not align himself with any force.
What ever happened to the world where people used to be people and not human collateral for some government bonds.
If you all chose to continue on the path of indentured servitude for the corporate aristocracy the future is certain to be a police state, but judging from the way people react to the ideas presented, most prefer the current slavery system to honest freedom.
You don't have true freedom if you are a slave on paper, your title to your soul must remain free and clear in ALL PEOPLES EYES, INCLUDING YOUR OWN.
PS: Usually when the Government labels a mostly peaceful movement as a "terrorist movement" thats when you know something good is getting done.
They label and judge and fear monger the paths that they don't want you on.
How could there possibly be a BAD OUTCOME from people trying to institute a LAWFUL and HONEST government? even if they fail to do so?
Why would you knock it down and bash it? if they fail, atleast they tried ! instead of sitting here and worrying about the "Police state Grid" ; believe in something.... and give support to positive change.
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dre4dwolf
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« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2011, 08:58:26 PM » |
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we all have the right to do what we want as long as we don't cause intentional harm to others, if someone like an officer or a "judge"(administrator/banker) has a problem with that, let them prove their case in a LAWFUL COURT.
See how their case falls apart.... they do everything through fraud because they HAVE NO RIGHT and NO MERIT, just because we fail doesn't mean we have to stop trying, atleast these people are drawing a line in the sand and standing up for something.
The only way to stop the fraud, and force the government to start acting HONORABLY is to cut them off.... if you feed fuel to a fire that is out of control and the outcome is that you get burned or killed ... you have no one to blame but yourself because you asked for it..... this is how they control us, through fear and labels, judging from the tags in this thread they are winning.
If push came to shove, what government/president would You rather have? the status quo which will eventually lead us to a world where we are all chipped zombies? no matter how much reform the outcome will remain the same, or a 1 in a million shot at liberty?
Personally ill take the roll of the dice on liberty, because the other outcome is already pre-determined..... nothing to lose, everything to gain.
I bet in the end these guys win out when the govt collapses into total despotism....someones gona have to clean up the mess that these feds are gona leave us with, because one thing is certain, NO EMPIRE LASTS
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WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2011, 09:14:52 PM » |
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Why don't you just be responsible and not get in debt in the first place? "neither a borrower nor a lender be..."
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