Darwin's original tome on evolution "The Origin of Species by Natural Selection"

[goforward]

Already posted but good for a laugh:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/feb/21/hobbit-rewriting-history-human-race

&

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm

what sci fi/fantasy book will these guys rip off next
 

[Dok]

Already posted but good for a laugh:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/feb/21/hobbit-rewriting-history-human-race

&

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6057734.stm

what sci fi/fantasy book will these guys rip off next
 

guess if one lie wont work they will just make up another.

[able]

seeing that you fellas believe in a sky wizard i wouldn't be laughing to loud re: lotr.

just pointing out the irony.

[Dok]

seeing that you fellas believe in a sky wizard i wouldn't be laughing to loud re" lotr.

just pointing out the irony.

Who believes in a sky wizard?

im assuming you believe you come from a rock.

[able]

i certainly didn't come from a racist bigot who condones slavery, murder, theft, rape and genocide...

in the spirit of lotr.... "you can keep nasty chips!"

i chose logic...

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”


Stephen Roberts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions


they all believe their god is real too. what makes yours so special? its just one of many.

[Dok]

i certainly didn't come from a racist bigot who condones slavery, murder, theft, rape and genocide...

in the spirit of lotr.... "you can keep nasty chips!"

i chose logic...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions


they all believe their god is real too. what makes yours so special? its just one of many.

so you believe you come from a rock?

[EvadingGrid]

Who believes in a sky wizard?

im assuming you believe you come from a rock.

You have just hit upon the crux of the argument that those in favour of evolution theory try to avoid at all costs, or have never ever given a moments thought.

As some body who worked in Genetics, created at least one GM Crop, I pour scorn upon anyone who thinks life just happend from raw materials.

[able]

i do not even pretend to know where life come from... and neither should you based on a book or faith that was created long after life started.

especially one that has butchered its way around the earth leaving death in its wake while having the arrogance to say its about peace.

to the sons of the butchered you might as well have a swastika around your neck. untill you realise that then your lost.

[Dok]

i do not even pretend to know where life come from... and neither should you based on a book or faith that was created long after life started.

especially one that has butchered its way around the earth leaving death in its wake while having the arrogance to say its about peace.

to the sons of the butchered you might as well have a swastika around your neck. untill you realise that then your lost.

Yet you believe the BOOK of Darwin? Hmm....

[Jackson Holly]

Hey, great thread ... and I want to jump in. No time to put together a post on my
feelings about Darwin/Evolution-only theory, so I will link to a couple of earlier
discussions some of us had a while back, and remind everybody of the
profound problem of mimicry for the evolutionists:

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=1550.msg584152#msg584152

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=1550.msg583659#msg583659

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=26252.msg630212#msg630212

 ... and another quote:

JACKSON HOLLY:

And during MOST of those millions of years the leaf walker probably did not look enough like the leaf to fool any half-wit predator!

Isn't the plant or other insect being mimicked also evolving over those many millions of generations? Maybe the mimick-ee is actually the mimick-er!

And man ... that little leaf walker would be in a heck of a mess if the mimicked leafy plant got killed off in his area by some disease!

Like Ouspensky says, I can believe that a white bunny rabbit 'evolved' (selected?) his coloring to be harder to see in the snow (but what about in the Summer?) ... ditto with the green lice. But a bug with leaf color, leaf shape, leaf veins, twig legs ... do you suppose he smells like the leaf? Some mimics do mimic smell.

QUESTION: Do you think the leaf walker turns brown in the Fall? If not, doesn't he STAND OUT on the barren plant? Oh, I know that the leaf walker population probably dies off after the one season ... but did he also evolve the exact same life expectancy as the leafy plant in order to make his greenleaf mimicry viable? Is he not able to move about except on that one plant?

QUESTION: Why do we have insects/animals that are not camouflaged or are not mimicking their surroundings? In fact, MANY brite colored animals exist that contrast flamboyantly with their environment.

[klompfot]

No one fully understands how life was created. Some people believe in the idea of a creator making the world in some magical way, and some believe in the premordial ooze and evolution. I guess it's all about existecialism, and the fear of "nothing". We all need to make reasons and explanations for the things we can't understand. Different people find different explanations. Just a few thoughts...

[goforward]

seeing that you fellas believe in a sky wizard i wouldn't be laughing to loud re: lotr.

just pointing out the irony.

What I BELIEVE in is of little importance to the argument that you and others avoid.
And I’m not out to fuel ad hominems and non-sequiturs. Do you BELIEVE or KNOW of the ‘phi ratio’ of nature? This is a formula past enlightened civilizations held as proof of a higher order or at least a signature. Science should be used to find equations and systems to explain things this is it’s fundamental use, but most of the time it’s propaganda spoon feeding fairy stories (about transformers).

Ps. I’m not trying to talk down to anyone.

[Damascus]

Once again religious zealots want simple answers to complex questions. But they believe they have all the answers. People should really be less superstitious. I guess their book contains all the knowledge that needs to be known.

[Dok]

Once again religious zealots want simple answers to complex questions. But they believe they have all the answers. People should really be less superstitious. I guess their book contains all the knowledge that needs to be known.

I know, those dang Darwinits and their book. 

[Jackson Holly]

Once again religious zealots want simple answers to complex questions. But they believe they have all the answers. People should really be less superstitious. I guess their book contains all the knowledge that needs to be known.

How did DNA "evolve"?

[Dok]

How did DNA "evolve"?

It works like this, take this word christmas, and using only the letters involved and spell Queen. See it wor.. oh wait. 

[DAVIDE MTL]

It's simple, either you think we came to being by accident or we were created...you don't have to know all the specifics..
...by looking at the beautiful mountains, oceans..etc ...how complex the human body is ....you should come to the logical conclusion
that there's a creator...why anyone from this site still reads Darwin is beyond me

[klompfot]

http://www.evolutionofdna.com/default.html

[Dok]

http://www.evolutionofdna.com/default.html

How did DNA evolve from the primordial soup?

comes from a rock.  I just love that.

[klompfot]

It's simple, either you think we came to being by accident or we were created...you don't have to know all the specifics..
...by looking at the beautiful mountains, oceans..etc ...how complex the human body is ....you should come to the logical conclusion
that there's a creator...why anyone from this site still reads Darwin is beyond me

So because the world is complex and fits your definition of beauty, it must have been created? If I dropped a drop of paint on the floor, and found the pattern beautiful, it must have been the work of a divine being?

And by the way...I did not know this forum was for religious people only. I am not religious, and up till this point i thought most people in this forum was fighting together against tyranny and corruption, sharing information and views, regardless of beliefs.

[Damascus]

I know, those dang Darwinits and their book.  

This is why I refuse to work with religious people against the NWO, because both will eventually be my enemy. It is history that you Zealots will take matters into your own hands when your magic man dose not appear and then you will turn on all the "Heathen". Look at all the militia people that refuse anyone that is not a Christian. If we do not evolve out of our superstition phase, It is guarantied we will all be at each others throats. All these supposed inconsistencies have explanations or are in the process of being studied, but you all insist we have all the answers right now or your fairytale is right. About Darwin, I have studied his history and you religious **** once again make stuff up and insert things that others have wrongly associated with the theory. If you insist on the eugenics aspect that was ALL Galton and there is evidence that Darwin wanted nothing to do with it.

P.S wasn't Thomas Robert Malthus the originator of eugenics , just that it was gods doing?

[Dok]

This is why I refuse to work with religious people against the NWO, because both will eventually be my enemy. It is history that you Zealots will take matters into your own hands when your magic man dose not appear and then you will turn on all the "Heathen". Look at all the militia people that refuse anyone that is not a Christian. If we do not evolve out of our superstition phase, It is guarantied we will all be at each others throats. All these supposed inconsistencies have explanations or are in the process of being studied, but you all insist we have all the answers right now or your fairytale is right. About Darwin, I have studied his history and you religious **** once again make stuff up and insert things that others have wrongly associated with the theory. If you insist on the eugenics aspect that was ALL Galton and there is evidence that Darwin wanted nothing to do with it.

P.S wasn't Thomas Robert Malthus the originator of eugenics , just that it was gods doing?

Goody, cause theres nothing worse than those religious zealots called Evolutionists that follow the Book of Darwin and believe we all come from a rock. Oh and don't forget his even better tomb, descent of man.  

[Damascus]

It is really simple either you have empirical evidence and testable theory, or you have faith and a book.

[Dok]

It is really simple either you have empirical evidence and testable theory, or you have faith and a book.

I agree with you 100%. 

[klompfot]

comes from a rock.  I just love that.

I don't see how you finding other views than yours "funny" is contributing to this discussion? It's ok to dissagree, but please don't mock other views?

Do we know it comes from a rock? no. Do we know it did not come from a rock? no. Was rock the only material around at that given time in history? I don't know. You seem to know, as you keep repeating the rock-arguement.  I would like to hear the answer.

[Dok]

I don't see how you finding other views than yours "funny" is contributing to this discussion? It's ok to dissagree, but please don't mock other views?

Do we know it comes from a rock? no. Do we know it did not come from a rock? no. Was rock the only material around at that given time in history? I don't know. You seem to know, as you keep repeating the rock-arguement.  I would like to hear the answer.

Oh im sorry, i guess its only ok to mock my beliefs? correct?

I believe in the beginning God, and you belive in the beginning a rock. Which is more believable?

[klompfot]

Oh im sorry, i guess its only ok to mock my beliefs? correct?

I believe in the beginning God, and you belive in the beginning a rock. Which is more believable?

I honestly cant see that I have mocked your beliefs, Dok. If you feel I have, I am sorry, but to me it seems like the discussion have been fair.
To try to make points and examples is one thing, but I don't feel it's necessary to put words in my mouth, and place a laughing smiley at the end.
I respect that you are religious and have your views, and I merely try to express my views and contribute to the discussion.

I have never said that life came from a rock, but I would like you to answer my previous question to you.

[Dok]

I honestly cant see that I have mocked your beliefs, Dok. If you feel I have, I am sorry, but to me it seems like the discussion have been fair.
To try to make points and examples is one thing, but I don't feel it's necessary to put words in my mouth, and place a laughing smiley at the end.
I respect that you are religious and have your views, and I merely try to express my views and contribute to the discussion.

I have never said that life came from a rock, but I would like you to answer my previous question to you.

The link you posted says we came from a rock. So im assuming you posted that link expressing your views, would i be wrong on this conclussion?

[Jackson Holly]

http://www.evolutionofdna.com/default.html

How did the code 'evolve'?

You're asking us to believe that not only did hundreds of thousands of variations of a beautiful supercomputer 'evolve' from nothing, on their own, with no guiding force (not even a WILL to evolve) ... but that the most highly complex and specific SOFTWARE for each also 'evolved' from nothing. Did the 'spark of life' also evolve from nothing?

BTW, I am not coming at this from a 'religious' viewpoint ... I just want to point out that this whole business of NO intelligence in the universe is patently RIDICULOUS ... even in scientific terms.

Did you read my post concerning Ouspensky and mimicry?

[goforward]

the reason why this issue is that it's a NWO thing not just a BELIEF thing

In the Minds of Men: Darwin and the New World Order by Ian T. Taylor
http://www.creationism.org/books/TaylorInMindsMen/TaylorIMMa01.htm


I came across this through Allan Watt

[Djævlen]

Okay. maybe evolution isnt the answer, and in my opinion, the "god" of the bible isnt the answer either. we as a species (if i can use that term here), do not know the answer right now, we can only speculate. anymore than that becomes dogma.

the earth being seeded by aliens is as just a valid answer at this point.

[klompfot]

The link you posted says we came from a rock. So im assuming you posted that link expressing your views, would i be wrong on this conclussion?

To be honest I googled "evolution of dna" when it was mentioned earlier. It is a view, but it's not necessary mine, or proven right, and I am open to different possibilities. I think many different views and arguments is healthy for the discussion.

I can see the link talks about primordial soup with salt water and organic material and the first protein as a tiny beginning of life on earth. When you say it says life came from a rock, it's a oversimplification of dimensions, in my opinion. I don't say life suddenly appeared in the form of a..fish..just one day....in the primordial soup theory, the time perspective is many many many many years.

[Dok]

To be honest I googled "evolution of dna" when it was mentioned earlier. It is a view, but it's not necessary mine, or proven right, and I am open to different possibilities. I think many different views and arguments is healthy for the discussion.

I can see the link talks about primordial soup with salt water and organic material and the first protein as a tiny beginning of life on earth. When you say it says life came from a rock, it's a oversimplification of dimensions, in my opinion. I don't say life suddenly appeared in the form of a..fish..just one day....in the primordial soup theory, the time perspective is many many many many years.

So how did life start? if you dont belive in soup?

[klompfot]

How did the code 'evolve'?

You're asking us to believe that not only did hundreds of thousands of variations of a beautiful supercomputer 'evolve' from nothing, on their own, with no guiding force (not even a WILL to evolve) ... but that the most highly complex and specific SOFTWARE for each also 'evolved' from nothing. Did the 'spark of life' also evolve from nothing?

BTW, I am not coming at this from a 'religious' viewpoint ... I just want to point out that this whole business of NO intelligence in the universe is patently RIDICULOUS ... even in scientific terms.

Did you read my post concerning Ouspensky and mimicry?

I don't know how the code evolved. In the theory of evolution, the first strain of dna was very very primitive, and we cant compare the organisms today to the first ones ever. Molecules seems to want to stick together...and over billions of years the right ones must have met

I don't know where the spark of life came from either...I bet there are theories about comets, lightning and stuff. I don't have the answers to that. For all I know, maybe you are right. But at this point, I personally find the evidence of a non-intelligent desigh more believable, unlike you. And thats Ok with me. That don't mean we cant discuss it, don't you agree?

I have not read your posts on Ouspensky and mimicry, yet. They seem interesting.

[klompfot]

So how did life start? if you dont belive in soup?

I see the primordial soup theory as a possible explanation.
Others theories describe comets, or asteroides with organic material crashing into earth. Where that material would come from, I don't know.
And maybe life was created by intelligent design, or god. May be.
I personally have more belief in the "life-on-earth-beeing-a-coinsidence"-theory. soup and evolution from protein...single cell organism...etc etc.

[Dok]

I don't know how the code evolved. In the theory of evolution, the first strain of dna was very very primitive, and we cant compare the organisms today to the first ones ever. Molecules seems to want to stick together...and over billions of years the right ones must have met

I don't know where the spark of life came from either...I bet there are theories about comets, lightning and stuff. I don't have the answers to that. For all I know, maybe you are right. But at this point, I personally find the evidence of a non-intelligent desigh more believable, unlike you. And thats Ok with me. That don't mean we cant discuss it, don't you agree?

I have not read your posts on Ouspensky and mimicry, yet. They seem interesting.

So how does UV light, the ozone layer and O2 fit into that?

[goforward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtAJGzDcds
 

[Dok]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtAJGzDcds
 

Thanx, i was looking for that a while ago. Glad its back up. 

[klompfot]

So how does UV light, the ozone layer and O2 fit into that?

Well, I'm not a scientist. I guess sunlight had an important role in the creation of life, as it still is one of the building blocks of life. The origins of free o2 on earth can be explained by mutations in the early primitive lifeforms, leading to photosynthesis. If I don't remember wrong, UV light from the sun makes ozone colliding with O2 in the atmosphere. At this point Im just reasoning. I bet you would get much better answers if you asked a person with an relevant education. In my opinion they are great questions!

[Djævlen]

So how does UV light, the ozone layer and O2 fit into that?

you've been very good in "disproving" other peoples opinions on how life DIDN'T start, but have yet to prove your view on its origins. lets hear it doktor.