Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?

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Offline OutlawPatriot

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #80 on: August 25, 2007, 02:14:28 AM »
... I just wanted some input from someone who has known about this longer than I have. What would you do? Any feedback is appreciated.

Do the internship and start your career.  Then just save money if you can and have contingency plans laid out if something happens. 

That's the most practical thing to do right now, IMO.

Offline Sonja

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #81 on: August 25, 2007, 02:41:16 AM »
Quote
I just graduated college in May, money isnt that much of a problem right now. Ive got the opportunity to go though a 6 month internship program that will land me a full time job. So my question is should I do it.... I mean what's the point? I realize I have no future (at least for a while) I know this sounds kinda stupid but what would any of you do if you were in this position? I just woke up to all this only about 6 months ago,

See, this is a big problem, hopelessness. Of course do the Internship! You cant help yourself if you are uneducated and destitute.
Let me say this to you young friend, ALL this theory has been going on for a LONG TIME. Its a slow, incremental process. I was turned onto it way back in the 70's, many people way before me. If I or any of us had stopped living our lives for it then, imagine! We would all be big time losers now. Im not. I have a farm, I grow food, Ive traveled the world, I had two careers and an entire great life while all this was happening.
I lived FREE, and you can too.  LIVE, enjoy, none of this is permanent or set in stone. Be aware but LIVE! Watch...if they come to chip you...say no. But educate yourself and live a splendid and spectacualr life! It doesnt matter about them, what matters is YOU.
Being Aware helps you miss the pitfalls, like getting into extreme credit card debt or falling for a sub-prime mortgage, otherwise, live free and happy. This NWO thing is not the only thing going on. Living free is the best revenge, and we only have the NOW in our bodies.
Please dont get bogged down in this, its been around since at least 1776, HA!

My guess is these survival-doomsday types here are mostly under 40. My first lover was a Vietnam Vet, he taught me everything they are saying now, in expectation of the same - that was 28 years ago. Imagine if I had lived the last 28 years expecting doom and gloom and martial law every day of my life since?  I would have lost my whole life since it didnt happen so far.
This is nothing new.

Now, in that regard, because I was educated early, I believe the plan has been escalated with 911, and being an organic farmer ( a decision I made from what I see happening) I know they are making war on food at least, as well as many other things in our basic living, so the threat is not nothing.
So, Im not saying 'ignore'. I am saying Live within the knowledge.  Dont stop living or the Globalists win.
Words may show a man's wit but actions his meaning.

Offline DCUBED

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #82 on: August 25, 2007, 03:05:40 AM »
Its not as much that I feel hopeless as than Im not sure what to do about the uncertain future. You make a good point about avoiding pitfalls, which I'm doing and will continue to do. I do feel like the best thing to do is to just continue to live normally and make as much money as I can now so I can get supplies to prepare for when shit does go down. Thanks for the advice.
ďOnce you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.Ē  - Arthur Conan Doyle

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." J. Edgar Hoover

Offline Sonja

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #83 on: August 25, 2007, 04:12:46 AM »
This is a lot of doom and gloom. Things are not Nazi-like these days no matter what AJ likes to promote. Its basically a whole bunch of European style 'harmonizing' and 'socializing' of the nation. They will try to take away guns which (hopefully) will never happen in the US.
The real threat is Military on our streets and the public's either acceptance or actual demand for it. These things will be so incremental it will not even look like a police state takeover, until it is fully realized.
We wont be out of electricity, water ect.
Upon a false flag nuke attack, some cities might be out of basic needs, this will not go on for too long. Understand that the World Markets would crumble and die a severe death if the US went into full fledged Martial Law. This is scare mongering at its worst, great radio, and total Bullshit. The US is still a World mover and shaker. Full fledged Martal law would make ALL nations that hold our dollars wary of our stability and dump dollars immediately causing a severe US and Global Economic collapse.

What is not understood by the small minds on this board ( many who believe in Scripture and The Rapture, 'by a fiction' writer) is that the US economy is central to the World economy. Still- We are not doing well in this aspect, borrowing billions to keep our economy going and going bankrupt in the process, and foreign bankers are slowly selling our dollars off on the world market, making our dollars worthless.

They have to do this slowly, not to collapse their own currency and World Markets, however Japan said they were selling dollars already back in 2005. China owns our Iraq debt making them holders of US policy.

We will not go into full fledged Martial Law, as economic or political extremism cant be afforded in the markets. We will be boiled slowly like a frog in a pot. All laws and executive orders will simply eat our rights. This will be the silent Martial law, incremental, unseen, totalitarian, never made public in the MSM until it is absolute, a done deal, still without aknowlegement of the reality.

Yes, the underlings of vaccines, attacks on food, genocide in Africa are ongoing. These are our targets as we are the public. In my mind, especially food.
Alex Jones does nothing on food. This leads me to believe he is mostly full of hot air, but thats just me, as a farmer and naturally I know when peope are starving and Montsanto has all the patents to all the seeds and we cant grow anything without their permission and buying their chemicals to make their seeds germinate- politics will mean nothing. Ive done much research on this, Monsanto is killing people and farmers. Alex ignores the Food problem. Totally and across the board. What is more important than food?
Words may show a man's wit but actions his meaning.

Offline jbrid1138

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #84 on: August 25, 2007, 11:19:30 AM »
(you ask) What is more important than food?
______________
For one thing -- air.  That stuff that we all take for granted, that stuff we need to breath while we sit comfortable at our kitchen table and stuff that food into our mouth // granted some might do the 'in take' while on the run or sitting at their computer -- but since you ask -- AIR is more important.

Which leads me to my point:
All those folks running for President of our country (USA) // we heard what they had to say about using nuclear weapons (if the need should arise) // Hell they seemed excited of the possibility of being the one able to push the button on just that very thing.  It was in what they said -- not off the table kind of lingo -- it was in their twisted smile and the glint in their eye.  All except RON PAUL // He didn't seem to much like the idea of dropping a few more bombs, sending off a few more missiles armed with a nuclear warhead.  Air, that's what's more important --

It would be so poisioned none of us (that survived a nuclear winter) would even recognize it as air if those crazy SOBs can get their hands on the switch.  And speaking of 'food' // not much of that would be suitable for consumption under these same circumstances.

What makes this so real is that we just happen to be the only country in this entire world of our that has used nuclear matter as a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) and we did that TWICE in 1945 when we let drop two bombs on two cities.  Lots and lots of innocents killed that day and lots and lots of sickness followed the survivors (which surely wasn't many).  We did it once (actually twice) the idea of doing it again (seeing it in their eyes) scares me a lot.  It should scare all of you as well.

This is serious stuff that has Biblical porportions written all over it // we need to get somebody with some sense about themself in the driver's seat -- and that would be RON PAUL.  Those others are better suited for the looney-bin, in my estimation, if they even THINK nuclear warfare is something we should be considering.  What a bunch of nuts, what a bunch of killers they are. 

What in the heck is wrong with people.  Do we (as a group) have some deficiency that makes us forget our past so easily, where we can't see father down the road than the tip of our own nose.  Greed and corruption is one thing, but insanity is another.  Those guys have got to be nuts to be even thinking that nuclear weapons is a logical recourse. 

Air is more important than food, but then after air, I would agree with you -- gotta have that food stuff (and water) the same food stuff grown in the wide open spaces under the wide blue skies of our land of freedom and enterprise -- from sea to shining sea -- We need to make sure it stays that way.

My rant.  Sometimes it sneaks out before I am able to stop it. 

Vote RON PAUL 2008.  Thanks for reading.  If you agree, thanks for that too.  If not -- see you in Hell (on earth).   
We refuse to let our knowlege, however limited, be informed by your ignorance, however vast.
-- David Ray Griffin

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
 -- James Madison (Fourth President USA 1809-1817)

Offline OutlawPatriot

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2007, 11:39:35 AM »
Hey, who here hasn't seen the movie Red Dawn yet?  If you haven't, run out and rent it immediately.  Gives a pretty sobering view of life on the run from the Russian bear.  I have to admit tho, the combat scenes were a little exaggerated at times.  But, hey, "it's in the script", as they say...

Alex once commented about the movie on his show and how the scenarios depicted seemed to have a very real possibility of occurring, given the way things are going, and that we can learn from some of them. 

(and, yes, you should know by now that both Russian and Chinese commando forces have been training on American soil for this very thing.  Coincidence? Personally, I believe it will happen, eventually, but they will be U.N. troops who will be brought in to "save" us and restore "order".  It may fool some people but it won't fool me..........)

Rock

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #86 on: August 25, 2007, 06:59:42 PM »
this is a little of topic... but I do understand whats going on and how much trouble we're in, Ive got guns, gold, im gonna get a water filter soon, and I do know someone that owns 17 acres in the middle of nowhere that I can get to in 20 minutes when shit does go down. But my question is this.... I just graduated college in May, money isnt that much of a problem right now. Ive got the opportunity to go though a 6 month internship program that will land me a full time job. So my question is should I do it.... I mean what's the point? I realize I have no future (at least for a while) I know this sounds kinda stupid but what would any of you do if you were in this position? I just woke up to all this only about 6 months ago, even though I feel like Ive got a pretty good grasp on what's going on and what's gonna happen I just wanted some input from someone who has known about this longer than I have. What would you do? Any feedback is appreciated.

I recommend a duel life.  Act as if tomorrow will never end.  Act as if tomorrow is the end.

Don't ask me how to make this balance, it is very difficult and I too struggle with it.

I say this:  All things in moderation!



Rock

Offline squandertime

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2007, 09:43:20 PM »
how bout we do all we can to vote for ron paul???

then there's no worries..........

the first duty of a revolutionary .... is to get away with it

Rock

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2007, 09:52:50 PM »
how bout we do all we can to vote for ron paul???

then there's no worries..........



Emmmmmmmmm, I wish it was that easy.  Be prepared for the worst,


Rock

Offline Sonja

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2007, 01:36:50 AM »
Rock,

Do you know how long all this 'theory' has been around? A person must live their life- not constantly tormented by thoughts of imminent disaster, especially a young person with so much to live for. Many things can kill you before the NWO does. I know this because I was educated at 17 as to the 'imminent' you name it- Cold war nukes, martial law, the fall of the dollar, Scriptures 'End of Days'- moving onto Reagans 'communism at our back door' , then Bush Sr. NWO.
I left the country and lived 10 fantastic years without a perpetual enemy coming to kill me through various means or God reigning down his wrath upon civilization -without the nutty Christians with their perpetual 'end of days'. It was the biggest relief of my life. I was able to live in peace and dedicate my time to many fruitful an joyful endeavors of culture, humanity, intellect, friends and social life that was life giving, and God forbid-enjoyable. I forgot how fearful and scaremongering this American society is, throughout a lifetime on so many tangents.

We are sick with this, it is particular to us in the US to be constantly scared out of our wits whether by wars, terrorists or if we can make our rent and insurance payments or end up in the streets or in jail.

We have to break this cycle of fear and live full lives. Say f**k you, you just cant scare me ANYMORE!
Words may show a man's wit but actions his meaning.

bcburns

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #90 on: August 26, 2007, 02:34:46 PM »

I need a good suggestion on an outdoor water proof sleeping bag that can handle cold temps?  Anyone?


Rock



Get online and look at the used three piece sleep systems at aamilitary surplus stores good to -55 degrees with gore-tex outer cover. I work in surplus in MO.

Rock

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2007, 05:03:16 PM »
Sonja,

I agree we should not be in fear alll the time.  But our government is planning to do us harm and is on many levels. 

It already has to me!

Without getting into to many stories in my personal life, I already have experienced the governments wrath.  And they promise it will get worse.

So, my advice is for everyone to enjoy ice-cream, TV, Music, and a good beer and at the same time (reasonably) prepare.

I have a 'durable power of attorney' on me at all times.  That is one small way to be prepared.

Rock   

Rock

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #92 on: August 26, 2007, 05:04:42 PM »
Get online and look at the used three piece sleep systems at aamilitary surplus stores good to -55 degrees with gore-tex outer cover. I work in surplus in MO.

Do you have a link?

Rock

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2007, 11:19:40 PM »
Howdy y'all. Great idea with this subject thread.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=1731.0

Kurt Saxon says, "What you're going to need to survive is a location about a hundred miles from any sizable city. War or no war, temporary survivors will spread out like locusts. Best to be in a small town out of their range.

Thus, you'll need a house, preferably with about a half acre, a basement and within the town limits. The basement is a necessity in case of a nuclear war. A follow up on Chernobyl pointed out that the radiation outside was 40 times that within a structure. A basement would be that much more protective.

Another thing about buying is that, aside from a fire extinguisher, medications and tools, you should never buy for emergencies.

By its very nature, an emergency is something not anticipated. We don't really know what will happen in the next couple of years. Maybe nothing. So you shouldn't loot your bank account for a lot of things you won't need soon. But in light of what might happen, here's a rule of thumb.

Consider what you have, what you use all the time and simply buy more. Now, in anticipation of hard times, adapt your present life style to a more conservative one. Stop buying what you will have to process later. Don't buy bread. Buy grains, grind them and bake your own bread. Don't buy milk by the gallon. Buy it by the large box, dried and storable and learn to use it. It's ever so much cheaper and just as good.

Whenever tempted to buy processed foods, think. Can you process them yourself, cheaper and with simple ingredients? Then do it!

Buy tools, not to store away but to learn to use, now. You will gain valuable skills for an uncertain future.

Food is a big item. Learn sprouting. Read "You Can Survive The Nuclear Winter", pages 266-273 of THE SURVIVOR Vol. 1. Modify that greenhouse to occupy the whole sunny side of your house. Have a side door from your house leading to it. Instead of two sides, as illustrated in the first edition, have but one side and tuck the top of the other side under the eaves of that side of the house. The greenhouse will grow fallout-free vegetables.

Maybe you know nothing about growing things. Learn. Start out by raising African violets or something else commercial to pay for that greenhouse. As you learn, you'll understand hydroponics (THE SURVIVOR, Vol. 2, pages 594-650). Such a greenhouse would quickly pay for itself by saved energy costs. It would shade your house from the worst summer heat on that side and so save on air conditioning costs. In the winter it would collect heat from the sun and heat the sunny side, thus saving heating bills.

Being a food producer your greenhouse would be an asset to the neighbors. They would even protect you from potential looters.

Don't make "survival" purchases yet. First invest in knowledge. Buy all my books, of course. Also a complete set of back issues of THE MOTHER EARTH NEWS would be a treasure. Get a set of THE FOXFIRE BOOKS. Also, scrounge second-hand book stores for back issues of ORGANIC GARDENING AND FARMING. All these are not only valuable but interesting. Don't forget books on greenhouses."

Here in Georgia, we have the HOPE grant that can be used for a diploma program, like EMT or other diploma or certificates, besides the HOPE scholarship that pays for tuition.

There is the Master Gardener program.  Carpentry might be a good skill to learn.  Log home building by Lasko School of Log Home or Skip Ellsworth's Log Home builders course.  Tom Brown's tracker school.  Dr. Christopher's school of natural healing. Front Sight or some other firearms training school. 

Kurt Saxon also wrote, "50 pounds of hard red winter wheat from your local feed and seed store costs only $7.00. Ground with the Corona Grain Mill, it translates to 100 pounds of the tastiest, most nutritious bread at only $.20 a loaf. The extra is for yeast, eggs, etc.

The wheat can also be sprouted, dried and ground for a super food, plus any number of other clever, tasty and nutritious uses. You could almost live on it.

Whole corn costs only $3.50 for 50 pounds. When ground, that is only $.06 a pound, as opposed to $.28 a pound for degerminated store corn or $.40 a pound for health food whole ground corn. Great for cornbread, cornmeal mush, corn pancakes, etc.

Then there are soybeans at $.40 a pound when bought in bulk. Sprouted, that are six times their weight of delicious green vegetable for under $.10 a pound. They turn into Tofu for $.20 a pound as opposed to $l.50 a pound in the store.

SURVIVOR Vol. 1 has all this and more, whereby, with the purchase of a hundred pounds each of soy beans, wheat, corn, rye and other beans, etc. your can provide your family with all their staples. Plus, you're not limited to a vegetarian diet. It is just that this program will eliminate three-fourths of your food bill.

But say the above is just too much of a first step. You want to save money on food and you want to stock up. But you don't want to spend thousands or bother with all that peasant labor. Fine, but a pity, as your reluctance to learn decreases your chances. However, you can stock up on food for about half its present cost, rather than three times its cost, as is the case with "survival foods".

Make a list of everything your family eats for a week. Then buy 10 cases of every non-perishable. It's a fact that cans, jars and plastic containers of food have a shelf-life of from three to five years. Even so, you are going to rotate, so even if it is a whole year's supply, no matter how long before you're going to need that year's supply, it will be relatively fresh.

Say you go to a discount store like Sam's. You get about 30% off. Even if you buy by the case from your local supermarket you will get 5 to 10% off since they won't have to handle the contents.

So you've got all this food, 10 cases each. Mark each batch of cases from 1 to 10. Start using case one. When you've finished it, buy another case and mark it 11 and start on case 2. You will find that by the time you are into case 3 or 4, prices will have risen. Even if you have bought the food in bulk off the shelf, you will have saved money. Whether you buy grains, beans, etc., or cases of food or off the shelf by the basket, you will save money on what you'll have had to buy, no matter what.

Your next consideration is to choose a trade or skill which will fit you to supply a need. This could be the most important decision of your life, as a person's profession is his guarantee of security. If you have to depend on someone else for a livelihood, you will never have real peace of mind or a real life's purpose.

There must be some skill you've fantasized about which would give you a good living and respect. The SURVIVORS have hundreds. Toy making, gunsmithing, greenhouse operation, auto repair, carpentry, etc.

Choose a general area and take some night courses in shop, woodworking or whatever. This would keep you off the streets, wouldn't cost much, develop your talents, make friends and give you a lot of ego-satisfaction.

Unless you are in a rural area, now is the time to relocate. Pick your spot and get a realty guide for that area. Rural homes on an acre or more are going lower in price all the time. Study the realty guide and decide how big a place you want and will be able to afford. Thousands do it every month. Why shouldn't you?

When you have your house and ground, build a 20x30 foot greenhouse along its sunny side. Such a greenhouse will cost only $400 to $600, depending on whether you use roll plastic or corrugated fiberglass. Your savings on food alone will pay for the greenhouse. The kicker is, that even if you don't use it, it will pay for itself. It will keep the sun off that side of the house, keeping your home cool and saving on air conditioning bills. In winter it will make that side cozy warm and save on heating bills.

For starters, you can grow house plants to sell to stores for Christmas, etc. Go to a store and look at them. They are always in demand and most women love such work. A modest profit, pleasant part-time work and you have paid a lot of bills. When you know more about growing you can expand to vegetables to use and sell for a real profit. All this with little cash outlay and good returns both in the short and the long run.

There are plenty of good books on greenhouses in your library. But first read "Greenhouse" beginning on page 271 in The SURVIVOR Vol. 1.

So far, as you have seen, preparing for the worst has not cost you more than you would have spent normally, and probably less. This is as it should be. So don't fall for any scare ads telling you to lay out a lot of money to survive.

Survivalism is more an attitude than an expense. Most arguments against it are just a cop-out to hide one's fear of challenge. It is so easy to go along with the system one is born into, even if that system is becoming repressive and even dangerous. It is hard for most people to leave the known and abandon the security they have depended on.

But all our ancestors did, at one time or another. And consider the Vietnamese over here and the Cubans. They all made a greater change than I am suggesting. What do they have that you don't?

One thing they have is persistence. They decided to do something, they planned it and they did it. They persisted until a large percentage of them are successful."

Some other books I'm thinking of are:

Freedom Road by Harold Hough
Travel-Trailer Homesteading Under $5000

Also, Cal-earth http://www.calearth.org/ has some cheap housing

Don't forget Mike Oehler's $50 and up underground housing" site and videos.

Anyway, I'll be contributing more to this thread later.

Right off the top of my head, I can recommend 3 books:

Encyclopedia of Country Living-great book!

Back to Basics-Reader's Digest book about all kinds of things

Timely and Profitable Help for Troubled Americans-German who survived WWII and communism and came to America

http://www.amazon.com/Timely-Profitable-Help-Troubled-Americans/dp/0930294149

http://cgi.ebay.com/Timely-and-Profitable-Help-for-Troubled-Americans_W0QQitemZ220123771680QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-Readers-Digest-Editors/dp/0895779390

http://www.carlaemery.com/country-living-book.htm

http://www.carlaemery.com/newsletter.htm


Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2007, 11:20:15 PM »
Chuck Harder wrote: " When the lights go out my wife and I turn to each other and laugh.  Why?  We know that we have triple back-ups and there is little chance that we will suffer at all.  Even if the lights are out for months.  Our neighbors are not so lucky - during the last big outage we supplied water to those who needed it.  Lucky for us, the lights came back on before folks in our area got too hungry. . .

 Our nation is sadly under the control of Greedsters who via deregulation have chosen to strip utilities of profits for the fat cats and executives and at the same time fired the reserve staff they used to keep for emergencies and repairs.  Now when a problem hits they count on bringing people in from other utilities far away to help them repair damages.  That works when just one spot is hit, but what if an entire region is having problems?  Or worse, the whole nation?  The reserve capacity and repair crews of yesterday have been sacrificed for profit and “just in time” planning.  You will suffer from this in the future.  Guaranteed.

 I believe in back-up.  That said, we have three sets of generators that run off of a tank-farm of propane.  Over 2,000 gallons would keep us in heat and light for four to six months.  Most people are operating with a 50, or 150 gallon propane tank at the side of their home.  Or, none at all and they use electricity for all purposes including heating, cooking, drying clothes, etc.  Folks that rely on the power company for all needs will have a sad awakening sometime in the near future.

 At our home we also have solar panels that charge batteries and they provide 120 volts for our home lighting and generators come on and off as needed to keep refrigeration and the well pump going.  A 300 gallon water tank up on a tower fills up in ten minutes and supplies all the water we need for days.  A few feet from the front door is a swimming pool with 25,000 gallons of potable water.  Now, we’re talking BACKUP!

 Most people won’t go to the lengths that we have for reasons that are best known to them.  So, let’s look at a minimal system that will give you a shot at survival for say three weeks of no power.  If you want to scale this up or down you’ll be able to catch on fast.  However, I suggest that if you start to prepare for a blackout that you do not share your excitement with your neighbors.  Why?  Better be ready to set your “emergency dinner table” for the neighborhood if they catch on!

First let’s look at WATER.  You’ll need at least two gallons per person, per-day at a minimum for drinking, cooking and sanitation. The cheapest way to do this is with tightly covered heavy-duty trash cans.  Go to the home supply store and first get the giant “Builders Clean-Up bags” that fit inside the can with plenty of top bag hanging over.  Put one bag in each can and fill it up with tap water to about 7 inches below the rim.  Pour 1/4 cup of unscented laundry bleach into each filled bag in the can and carefully fold and seal the top and place the lid on the can.  You have about 45 gallons of water in each can.  Multiply that by what you will need as to persons in the home.

 Every six months you should empty and re-fill the water adding the bleach.  When the water is needed you will boil it first before you drink it to be sure.  More on that in a moment.

 Next you will need sanitation materials.  With no running water you will be able to flush the toilet one time.  Get heavy trash bags that will fit down inside the toilet bowl and the top will fold over the outside of the bowl toward the floor.  Have a supply of bleach water in the bathroom made from one part laundry bleach to five parts water.  Add that when needed to handle scent as the bag fills up.  Some folks double-bag to be sure for easy removal.  When the bags are 1/2 full you can tie them off and put them in the back yard where you can dig holes to dispose of them.

 A bathing solution can be made of one part rubbing alcohol to ten parts of water and sloshed on the body with washcloths and rinse with clean water.  Have plenty of generic mouth wash and also body rinse like “Sea Breeze” or a generic brand in your cabinet.  Plan on one bottle per week per person of each.

 Don’t forget your medications.  Ask you doctor for an extra prescription for emergencies.  He or she will gladly do it and they understand and may hand you some free samples.  Also don’t be afraid to ask for freebies including some antibiotics or other stuff they might hand out to you.  Tell they you plan to go camping for a month (wink, wink).

 Next is communication.  A CB walkie-talkie with extra batteries and also at least one or two small battery radios like our Signal Hill 100.  Store the radio in clean cookie tins with the batteries separate so you put the batteries in the radio only when you need to use them.  Have several sets of batteries kept sealed in their packages.  Also put a tuning guide, long wire antenna, etc., in the kit.  The tin protects the radio from the elements and also any potential “impulse blast” from electrical storm, solar flare or terrorist E-bomb.  I suggest having at least two radios and one of them should have alternate systems of power such as crank generators, solar cells that charge batteries and so forth.  Our website will have these as time goes on.  Check back.

 Pocket cell phones are also handy but remember that the cell towers will go dark after one week or more running on generator backup.  Your main phone system may last two weeks.  After that you will be totally on your own except for listening and a CB radio or other such communication.  Me, I keep it all including a satellite phone.

Food:  Get two manual can openers.  Then buy plenty of oatmeal, and canned food that’s ready to eat from the can with heating.  You can get Dinty Moore products and others.  Soups, Chili, Chicken and Dumplings, Stews, etc. , are all in cans.  Get plenty for each person for at least one month.  Don’t worry as you can eat the food and it’s like money in the bank.  Just buy a few cans every week so that nobody at the store notices.  Cookies and saltine crackers are also great only if you can store them in cans, jars and such with airtight lids.

Cooking:  A double burner Coleman propane camp stove is the best with plenty of propane cylinders.  Ask the nice person in the Sporting Goods section how much propane you’ll need for a month or two.  Also check out the Coleman “Lamp Tree” that goes to a large propane tank like used for an outdoor gas grill that then goes straight up to a double mantle lamphead and a hose runs to the grill.  Such a setup will handle cooking and light for about a week.  Get extra big tanks and spare mantles.  At the least get a single burner stove with plenty of tanks.

 Light: Our solar panel kits and lighting kits are great, but at least be sure to have enough batteries and lights for two weeks.  With a solar panel and battery or a rechargeable solar lantern you’ll be a lot safer.  See our BLACKOUT VIDEO for ideas.

 Long Term:  Blankets, a small tent to use inside the house if it’s cold outside and you can’t run the heat, coats, and perhaps a weapon.  You need to study your situation on all of this.  The FEMA list is attached to ponder.  Remember that this is only a start to get you thinking.  We have video’s on this subject and also on how to live “off the grid” without power.  But I cannot stress enough that you need to keep your preparations quiet.  Once you start your little home generator to keep the refrigerator cold the neighborhood will know that where there is a generator there probably is more supplies.  That’s why I like the silent preparation and solar panels when it’s possible.  Also think about getting black construction paper and masking tape to cover the windows toward the street so that when you run lights at night that others don’t see them. . .

There are lots of books at the library about different types of small businesses that you can go into. You might want to check them out and then think along these lines:

1. Find a need and fill it. What is needed in your area?
2. What can you do that will fill that need?
3. Can you work out of your home and avoid an overhead?

You have the right to be a “Sole Proprietor” which means that you are operating a business in your own name. You still can deduct business expenses but don’t need to spend big money on incorporating or setting up any form of fancy operations. Just keep track of all of your expenses to prepare your income taxes at the end of the year. If things go well you might want to incorporate later to get more tax breaks.
Here’s some ideas to ponder:

A. What’s your hobby? Can you turn it into making a buck? If so you may have the beginning of a business that you really love that can support you.

B. The “Lost Arts” are returning. If you can sew, repair shoes, or do similar work you may find a need for these services in your area. I know a lady who sews from her home and makes a very good living!

C. Be a “finder.” Go to flea markets, garage sales and other such outlets and look for collectible items that you have researched. Often the pocket watch you can buy for $5.00 is worth $300.00 to the watch and clock collector. Just go and study up on antiques and collectibles at the library. And don’t forget the value of old records. Old jukeboxes also bring big bucks!

D. Go ahead of the garbage truck. Pick up the cast-off lamps, chairs, clothes, radios, TV’s, lawn mowers and what have you. You would be amazed at what people throw away. When I was once desperate I did exactly that and took the stuff I picked up to the flea market and came home with $350.00 after two days of selling.
Bottom line:

No overhead. What you earn you keep. Your only expense should be a self-inking rubber stamp with your phone and address!"

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #95 on: August 26, 2007, 11:20:51 PM »
Chuck Harder also wrote: "My first suggestion is to find a very rural area that is about one-hour from the city that you live in. If possible find a small town that is along an old US Highway that is now paralleled by an interstate highway. Often property values plummet in areas bypassed by new inter-states. Once you find that small town start going there on weekends. You’ll find small old motels on the old highway that will be delighted to have you and your family as paying guests. Often they will know where land is for sale. Attend the local doings and tell the local folks how much you like their area. Keep the kids quiet and never say anything snotty. Don’t drink or party in front of any of the local people. Be model citizens and show up around the town.

Make sure you take a business-day off and visit the local county-seat and courthouse. There you will find the “gold” you have been searching for. Start at the “Tax Appraisers office.” Often they will have a book you can buy that will show the county map and how it is divided into the parcels of real estate and shows who owns what. Then jump in the car and drive the areas you are interested in. Once you do the gold is easy-to-find. Note on the map the parcels of empty land or the houses and farms you are attracted to. Sometimes you will find an old mansion with some broken windows and run-down as we once did. Then check the tax records and see if the property-tax is paid. If it isn’t you might want to pay the tax and get in the “drivers seat.”

A HA! Here is where you strike GOLD! It is my experience that out of ten pieces of land in rural America there are at least three that the owners don’t want! Why? Simple, deaths in the family and/or Uncle Earl used to live there. Now nobody left in the family wants the land and are all arguing over who will pay the land-taxes! Often the relatives of “Uncle Earl” are thousands of miles away and some may also be elderly. They would love to sell the land to you for peanuts. My wife and I have bought lots of land under exactly these conditions.
WHY NO “FOR SALE” SIGN?

Probably a good portion of land in the USA outside of cities is in an “Estate.” That means that some heir to Uncle, Dad, or Grandpa lives a long way off and is busy with their lives. They never took the time to find a local Realtor and don’t know who to call. Thus the land and often the empty house or farm just sits. Once you research them, and write to them you’ll soon be talking on the phone for a deal.
YOUR LETTER TO THEM MUST BE SIMPLE

On the next page you’ll see a copy of my famous letter that I send to the owners of record of properties that I am interested in. It’s simple and does not bind you to a deal. Use it with my best-wishes. My wife and I have bought many parcels from either foreclosures or absentee owners or estates. It’s the only way to get a deal. If the local Realtor has the land listed you will not be able to buy on your terms in most cases. Why? Because the Realtor has given the owners a “fair market appraisal” and the owners have a price fixed in their mind. Much better to buy from owners who are desperate to get rid of that “crummy land in County XXXXX where our goofy Uncle Earl used to live.” When you pay them “nothing” it will confirm to them that Uncle Earl was indeed goofy! They will all sigh and be happy that they found another fool. No, I’m not kidding. This is especially true of heirs who live in big cities a long way off.

If you find that you are really interested in the property and the land taxes are unpaid for several years you would be wise to pay the taxes. If the owners do not redeem the land by paying you back after a certain length of time you can continue to pay the land taxes and eventually own the property for just paying the back and current taxes. Many estates lose track of the land and simply don’t care. We have bought land real cheap by first buying up three years of back tax certificates. Even if the owners do not sell to you the tax certificates earn you interest you will never get at a bank. Make sure you want the land that you buy the certificates on. There is a lot of marginal or “junk land” that owners don’t want and will be happy for you to get for paying the back taxes. Be wary of old gas-stations or country stores that may have buried fuel tanks underground or other toxic environmental nightmares for you! Some old farms have dumps buried that are also “super-fund” sites. Check with the county agent and be sure that the land is “clean” and there are no toxic dumps or hidden tanks for you to have to pay to clean-up. This is a bigger problem than you would ever imagine. Once I almost bought a building that had tanks buried that were 30 years old. It would have cost me five times what the real-estate was priced at to clean up the environmental mess. No matter if the situation is true or false you will be under the watchful eyes of bureaucrats that could care-less if you go broke. Watch out. Best bet is to get an “environmental audit” before you sign a contract to buy the deal. Cheapest money you will ever spend. Again, the county agent may know.
THE LETTER

To: (Owner of record at the tax office)

       (Address, City and State)

Dear Sir or Madam:

My family has an interest in purchasing a piece of property in the general area where you own some land. According to the local records the legal description of your land is:

(Legal Description)

If you are interested in selling the land to us please state your price and terms. This letter does not constitute a contract to buy the land but is only a request for more information. Hopefully we can deal direct and save you and us the various fees normally paid to others. If we agree on a price and terms we will have the local title company handle all papers. You can call me evenings and weekends at the number below. Thank you in advance for a prompt reply.

Sincerely,

Your Name,

Address and Night phone number.
THE BEAUTY OF “RAW LAND”

“Uncle Elmer” bought this tract of land twenty years ago to build his retirement home or to start a small farm. Sadly he had a heart attack and never left the city. No, this story is not far-fetched. Much of the land that we have bought from an estate has exactly this story. The estate is delighted to get rid of the land that they have been paying property taxes on for years.

BEST BET - see what the tax appraiser has placed on the land as to VALUE. Normally an estate will be delighted to get 80 percent of that value or less. Best of all, raw land normally does not have any buried full or empty fuel tanks or dumps. Still, check it all out.
IF NO ELECTRIC POWER IS NEARBY THE LAND IS CHEAPER!

If you get “way out” in the country you may find that there is land that you want where there are NO POWER POLES. Then check with the county agent or power company and verify that there is NO POWER in that area. Such land is normally sold dirt-cheap for exactly that reason. Make sure you advise the owner that no power is near the land. It may cost tens of thousands of dollars to get the local utility to bring power to that site. Thus you have another bargaining tool. My plans will allow you to live “off the grid” so why pay more for land where the power may be off anyway! Often the cost of rural land without power nearby will be so much cheaper that you will save enough to buy the generators, batteries, propane tanks and water tower.
YOUR SURVIVAL COTTAGE DOES NOT NEED POWER - OR A FLOOD!

The first step is to find the land and be sure it DOES NOT FLOOD. The county agent will have a map that shows the flood plains. You will be in lousy shape if the country is in a mess and you are living in a flood-plain and the place goes under water. Trust me on this. Be safe and not sorry. My wife and I live on top of a hill and have watched our neighbors go under water. Be careful and avoid flood land.
YOU FOUND AND BOUGHT THE LAND - NOW WHAT?

My advise is to build as small a cottage as possible to survive in with your family. You might also consider a repo mobile home but that has some aspects that I don’t like. First, the big advise: The entrance to your place is off a road that someone else will also be driving on. My advise is to get a farm-gate from the first day you cut a driveway into the land. Hopefully it is heavily wooded and you can cut a drive in the form of a “Lazy S” so that those passing by the gate cannot look into where you have your house or cabin. If they see only a gate and just trees and no home they will then drive on by. You do not want to stand-out. If the property is not wooded then I would forget it. You need the coverage of the woods. Also remember that if you buy such land and decide to camp-out on it in a tent you may be visited in the middle-of-the-night by wildlife that will not be stopped by your tent canvas. Bears, wild dogs, wild hogs and so forth may ruin your campsite and hurt your family. Only camp-out in a secure vehicle such as an enclosed travel-trailer. Wild hogs are about everywhere in the USA and they eat small animals and can hurt you and your family. Don’t risk it.
WHAT’S THE WHOLE IDEA?

You have to now decide what type of shelter you want to construct or just move-in. No matter what you do there will be local folks who know you are there and what you are doing. If this is a very rural county you may be able to do a lot of things yourself. In such cases a used and repo mobile home may be the ticket. Just be sure you can get it in the property. Also check with the county building department and get the well and septic tank permit. If you build your cabin from scratch on your rural land you may be able to “ease it in.” In short, you buy the land, cut in the drive and the cabin slowly appears and you make your own septic tank and drill your own well and nobody sees nothing from the road. Because you are not asking to hook-up to power that does not exist nobody cares what you do out there in the boonies. Keep the gate locked and the taxes may not go up much either. Also check if there is a “Homestead” provision and if there is be sure to register. Your local lumber-yard or home supply store like, Scotty’s, Lowe’s, Builders Square, Home Depot, etc., will have books on small homes and cottages you can build. Some even have complete kits with doors and windows, etc. Or you can design your own using pre-cut standard lumber so you don’t have to cut the lumber and waste much wood. That’s how we build and thus our scrap-pile is very small.

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #96 on: August 26, 2007, 11:21:43 PM »
cont'd

"LIVING CHEAP AND USING VERY LITTLE FUEL

From this point on I will explain how I plan to cope with the potential disruptions and not use up a lot of fuel. I think many of these ideas are novel and elegant but at the same time you may wish to expand on them. The entire concept here is to use existing technology that is low-cost, easy-to-get and very affordable. There are all kinds of hot-shots that will sell you giant expensive deals costing tens of thousands of dollars. Well Pardner, most of us everyday folks do not have that kind of money. This report is written for the good people of the USA that must cope on a reasonable budget.
PROPANE AND THE GENERATOR

You can spend $50,000.00 on converting a home to full solar. Others have spent $20,000.00 buying a diesel generator that will handle the whole house if the power goes off. What they do when they run out of fuel is another issue. My plan here is for you to buy the land, build the cabin and prepare it and if possible be below an investment of $25,000.00 or less. This makes sense as new cars cost more and have no chance of appreciation where real-estate does. The reason for using propane to power your generator is that it does not go bad over time when stored. Diesel fuel does not store well in the Southeastern US or anywhere that heat and humidity are present. There is a fungus that grows in diesel fuel and it can turn nasty and gloppy. I have owned a diesel car since 1982 and still drive it. There is a lot of maintenance on the fuel separators and you have to keep the tank full. While I am “up to speed” on maintaining a diesel you may not be and if your fuel tank is full of fungus and glop and then the diesel won’t start. If water got into the system you could lose a fuel pump, and injector pump. Forget diesel. Gasoline is just about as bad and in my opinion is highly dangerous to store and pour into a hot generator. Forget gasoline.
NO TAX ON PROPANE

As propane is not normally a motor-fuel there is normally no road tax on it from the US Government or State. Often these taxes amount to big money. While you can sometimes buy diesel without paying the tax per-gallon you have to have a tax-exemption form and that’s more red tape. Propane is more elegant by the minute when you look at all the dynamics.

For the “survival cabin” I would immediately get at least 1,000 gallons of propane in two or more tanks. My advise would-be to buy two inexpensive electric generators such as a 5KW and 3KW unit and convert them to propane. I will provide you with pictures and diagrams here that basically allow you to do the following:

1. During the day you run one of the generators for an hour or two to do the basic work that must be done. Run the wash machine, well, refrigerator, freezer and also charge the batteries.

 2. You will build an elevated water tank that you will fill with the well and pump during generator “on-time” and then gravity feed the water into the cabin all night long and perhaps the next day or so. Plans are in this book to do that elegant or cheap.

 3. Using two deep-cycle RV/Marine 12-volt storage batteries you will charge them with the generator and then use a small 140 watt inverter to provide power overnight for small fluorescent lights, a small TV and satellite receiver or radio. When you go to bed and shut off the TV and Satellite receiver you can run a small personal fan if you want during the summer. Other than that, make sure you have great ventilation.

4. If you must “open and shut” a refrigerator a lot then get a big one and a freezer that you will power during generator “on-times” and then don’t open them when the generator is off. During those times you might get a tiny counter-top model that the inverter can run off the batteries all night. Watch the wattage and power- consumption. You can also get propane-powered refrigerators but they are often rather expensive. Another idea is to freeze water in 2-liter bottles and use them for ice in a Styrofoam chest and drink the ice water when the ice melts. Never use one gallon plastic milk jugs as that plastic is biodegradable and will fall to pieces.
SOLAR POWER

I suggest the Alpen Solar lantern we sell as it is versatile, puts out a lot of light and makes sense. Other than that solar is still pricey. Explore and do what you want but I do not feel that you will be delighted with the cost of the solar panels and the actual output. Go for it if you like but make sure you realize the limitations of just solar power unless you are willing to spend serious money. One source is J.C. Whitney automotive in Chicago, Illinois. Also RV dealers have “portable small solar packages” that will allow limited light and a radio at night. Just remember that the hazy and cloudy days do not bountiful solar power make. I would rather have two or three cheap propane-converted generators. Used wisely they would run for two years on 800 gallons of propane.
HEATING THE CABIN

When you build your cabin consider using 2x6 lumber for the exterior walls. Why? First the structure is stronger and will withstand higher wind-loads and you can use more insulation than normal in the walls as you have extra depth. Be sure to use silver-board and if possible use the double-foil plastic bubble “Reflec Tec” with the fiberglass wall insulation and also in the ceiling to increase the “R” value.

The interior of the cabin can be finished a number of ways. My favorite is using “BLUE BOARD” sheet-rock that is designed to be coated with a veneer plaster. The joints are taped with special plastic-mesh joint tape and done quickly. The first coat is applied and then a finish coat is done with a texture, swirl, or whatever. It’s a good and fast system and used a lot in rural America. The plaster is a bright-white and can be left natural or painted. If you paint the interior I suggest a semi-gloss paint as it is easy to clean. With lanterns and wood heat you may have some soot from time to time and it wipes clean off semi-gloss but is a mess if you use flat paint.

This is a system that adds insulation, seals the interior and helps keep out pests, is fireproof, pleasing to the eye, bright and cheery and cheap. As you will be using old-technology for heating and cooking and maybe lighting I suggest that anything you can do to make the interior fire-retardant is a wise move.

Don’t overlook a wood stove and chain saw but be sure you understand all of the dynamics of wood heat, and the dangers of chimney fires if you burn too much freshly cut pine. Wood heat fires are nice to look at if somebody else is cutting and stacking the wood and cleaning out the ashes the next morning. It’s a lot of work but may be a necessary alternative in some cases. If you go the wood-heat route make sure you have a good “modern” cast-iron or other metal wood-burning stove that you can also cook on in a pinch. Don’t bother with a fireplace as they waste too much heat. The free-standing wood stove puts most all the heat in the cabin and requires less wood and a smaller fire. All this makes life a lot easier for the family. Be sure that the stove is setting on bricks or a concrete slab inside and is properly installed in the house. If you do it yourself make sure you use INSULATED VENT PIPE that is the correct size for the wood stove.

If you use wood heat you will want to build an inexpensive wood shed that has a tin roof. You might want to have one bin area for small kindling wood and another area for cut logs. You will need dry wood to start and maintain a fire especially during long Winter rains. Be sure the storage bins are large enough to hold a weeks worth of wood in case the weather turns real lousy and stays that way.
Setting up the 12-Volt To 110-Volt Inverters

The inverter is a solid-state device that converts 12 volts DC to 110 volts AC. The input of the inverter connects to the batteries and must be properly connected to the Positive (+) and Negative (-) terminal. Screw that up and you burn out the inverter. The batteries must only supply 12 volts. DO NOT WIRE THE BATTERIES IN SERIES. The diagrams and pictures in this book should do the trick for you. When in doubt have somebody that knows check it out.

I use two deep-cycle 850 amp-hour RV batteries. They are set-up in parallel. That means that the RED wire runs from the (+) POSITIVE post on one battery to the (+) post on the other and then to the center-pin of the cigarette-lighter plug. The BLACK wire runs from the (-) NEGATIVE post on one battery to the (-) post on the other battery and to the outer-ring post on the cigarette-lighter plug.

I used 8-guage wire with battery terminals soldered on. The cigarette plug wires are also soldered to one end of the terminals. (See Photo’s) I would imagine you could use 10 or 12 gauge wire, but I know that 8 gauge will allow a good route for the charging cycle. During charging the battery-charger clips only need to be attached to the POS and NEG terminals on one battery and the inter-connecting wires will bring the current to the other battery at the same time. I keep my dual RV batteries “UP” by using a small 6-amp charger. When I will use the generator I will be using a much larger charger. UNPLUG the inverter from the cigarette-lighter/connector during charging. You can also check the voltage using an inexpensive meter such as you see on my power bench. If you make light-use of the inverter system and go to bed early you might be able to run for several days on a full-charge. Best bet is to write down the load that you are running and how long you run it each night. You’ll soon learn what the capacity is.
A WORD ABOUT FLUORESCENT LIGHTS and ELECTRONIC LIGHTS

You can get 12-volt fluorescent lights from an RV dealer or the RV section of a large store such as Wal-Mart. DO NOT HOOK THEM TO THE INVERTER. They are designed to be run off 12 volts straight from the batteries and no inverter is needed. They will be run on separate wires if you run them. Also any 12-volt lamp is run straight from the batteries. The INVERTER is only used to power items that normally plug into the 110-volt wall receptacles.

There is a type of screw-in 110-volt tube-light made by LIGHTS OF AMERICA and some other companies. The 100 WATT light-output model puts out the equivalent of a 100 watt light bulb but only uses 27 watts of 110-volt electrical energy from the inverter. These are actually ELECTRONIC LIGHTS and not a normal fluorescent. They have small radio-transmitters built-in that exit the phosphor in a much more efficient manor. PROBLEM: They will not run below 108 volts and simply shut-off. If your batteries are low they will not light.

If you simply want the cheapest lights available and are not interested in 110-volts you can go all 12-volts. This means you use 12-volt lights and also a 12 volt car radio for listening. Unless the TV runs on 12-volts you will need to use an inverter. Wal-Mart and K-Mart sell little black-and-white TV’s that run on 12 volts for about $50.00. I have one pictured here that also has a built-in AM and FM radio. You will need an outdoor TV/FM radio in most rural areas. Use the Select-Antenna shown to soup-up your existing or “super” AM radio reception. For best AM reception I suggest a GE SUPER RADIO that are available in most electronic stores. Don’t forget the short-wave radio also - you’ll be glad you have it.

If you go “All Inverter” you will use common extension-cords from the inverter output to your devices. If you go 12-volt you will have to connect the 12-volt devices directly to the battery. You can buy or make-up 12-volt extension cords that have battery clips on one end and a cigarette-lighter receptacle on the other. If you go “all inverter” I suggest you buy some little 71/2 watt 110 volt night-lights in case the batteries get low and the 110-volt fluorescent go off. The night lights may be dim but you will still have some light.

Another option is running 12-guage wire from the batteries to certain points in your house. There you would connect 12-volt lights or have a cigarette-lighter output for an inverter. The problem is that if the wires are too long the inverter will not operate correctly. Keep it near the batteries and run power cords inside from it.

Again, you might decide to stay with all 12-volt and run 12-volt lights, a car radio, CB, and 12-volt TV all off the double batteries. That’s simple but does not allow the use of the electric shaver or other appliances that normally run on 110. An inexpensive fixture for 12-volt lights is the outdoor style yard-light or the RV light fixtures than you can easily acquire.
A NOTE ABOUT LARGE RV STORAGE BATTERIES

Make sure you charge and use them in a WELL VENTILATED AREA that is not near any sparks or flame. Batteries give off hydrogen gas when active and in a sealed area may explode if you have a spark. I suggest you connect the battery charger clips to the batteries BEFORE you turn-on the charger to avoid sparks.

NEVER: Put the batteries on a concrete floor. Keep them sitting on wood when possible and make sure they don’t vibrate off the bench if your generator is nearby. Don’t cook them in direct sunlight and do not let them freeze. Don’t let kids play around them and remember that if you touch a wire from one post to the other it will glow red hot in an instant and burn you or flash and explode. These are not toys and must be respected. Read the instructions and make sure that you only use distilled water or rain-water if you have to fill them. DO NOT USE TAP OR WELL WATER EVER."

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #97 on: August 26, 2007, 11:22:47 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Camping-Woodcraft-Handbook-Travelers-Wilderness/dp/0870495569

http://www.paladin-press.com/authormo_1201.aspx

http://www.paladin-press.com/authormo_1201.aspx

I also have and recommend these 2 books:  Camping and Woodcraft by Horace Kephart and Living Well on Practically Nothing by Ed Romney.

Don McAlvany in his current Intelligence Advisor is writing:
"Set Aside a Two-Month Cash Reserve-Even Homeland Security and government officals are warning Americans to set aside a few weeks of food and water in preparation for a Bird Flu pandemic.  But what about a terrorist nuclear attack or another Katrina-type disaster?  In addition to a cash reserve, consider a few months of dehydrated food; a British Berkefeld water filter; a few flashlights; a short wave (battery powered) radio; and a firearm or two for family protection.  Aren't all these things just common sense?"

Don't forget Lehman's Catalog:
http://www.lehmans.com/index.jsp

And how in the world could I have forgotten these medical books?:

http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-No-Doctor-Handbook/dp/0942364155

http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-Dentist-Murray-Dickson/dp/0942364058

http://www.amazon.com/Where-Women-Have-No-Doctor/dp/0942364252/ref=pd_sim_b_1/002-2141026-5169663

http://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Medicine-Beyond-First-Aid/dp/076270490X/ref=pd_sim_b_3/002-2141026-5169663


Where There Is No Doctor: A Village Health Care Handbook

Where There Is No Dentist

Where Women Have No Doctor: A Health Guide for Women

Wilderness Medicine, Beyond First Aid

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #98 on: August 26, 2007, 11:25:15 PM »
Bo Gritz SPIKE training DVDs
http://www.bogritz.com/training.htm

Kurt Saxon's PMJB
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6669351592755260685&q=kurt+saxon

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should also have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
-- George Washington

And might I add, we need to have food.  Sprouting and gardening are good ideas.

EFT an emotional form of acupuncture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nRY3UtTHvo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFn8tX5xD4s

Kurt Saxon video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6669351592755260685&q=kurt+saxon

Nuclear War Survival Skills
http://www.oism.org/nwss/#Message2441

Free text files
http://www.textfiles.com/survival/

Kurt Saxon's thoughts
http://www.kurtsaxon.com/
http://survivalplus.com/philosophy/page0003.htm

Ted wright's book-It's $15 plus s and h-I recommend it
http://preparedness.com/comdissurman.html

You will survive doomsday
http://www.ki4u.com/survive/doomsday.htm

thanks to RoCr
http://nw0.info/index.php?p=eBooks%20and%20Audio%20Books/Banned_Books/

And finally, some free online courses from FEMA's Emergency Management Institute
http://training.fema.gov/IS/viewall.asp

Specifically:
http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is3.asp

http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is22.asp

http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is292.asp

So again, study this stuff and buy the Ted Wright book for $15 bucks and the other stuff is free.  I think it's a good start.

http://www.chuckharder.com/blackout.htm

http://www.fema.gov/hazard/terrorism/nuclear/index.shtm

http://www.chuckharder.com/future_shock.htm

Chuck Harder did offer a great video and book, but I don't know now. He's been sick and going through a divorce.  Chuck is a very, very, very, nice man.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000vWc

http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm

http://www.newberrycounty.net/psafety/Shelter.htm

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/shelter.asp

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-915298207261091195&q=mark+koernke&total=22&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6669351592755260685&q=kurt+saxon&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2495590497786506130&q=survival&total=14824&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=opera&rls=en&q=survival&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv

http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=opera&rls=en&q=lofty+wiseman&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv

Offline FrancisDade

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Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #100 on: August 26, 2007, 11:26:56 PM »
What about, if one has auto repair skills, starting a niche for fixing up 1973 through 1986 Chevy/GMC 4x4 pickups, Blazers and Suburbans to be  EMP-Proof Survival Vehicles?

http://www.survivalblog.com/

The ideal survival vehicle is a 4x4, 3/4 ton made by GMC or Chevrolet. They are easy to work on, old enough to be cheap, new enough to get parts for and, tough enough to last. My 1976 GMC 4x4 3/4 ton pickup has 300,000+ plus miles. Maintenance = reliability. It has V8 350, 4 speed standard shift, 4.10 axles, dual-range transfer case, manual hubs. In Low range first gear I have crept up and down icy mountain roads with perfect confidence --- and V-bar chains on all four wheels. Between the steel line from the gas tank, and the mechanical fuel pump, I installed a piece of new neoprene gas hose with two in-line fuel filters in tandem. This serves to capture grit that would abrade, and shorten the service life of, the fuel pump diaphragm; and otherwise clog the moving parts inside the fuel pump. Between the output side of the mechanical fuel pump and the intake of the carburetor I installed a long piece of neoprene gas line, with one inline fuel filter, secured where it will not touch the exhaust manifold. At the front of the block, near the mechanical fuel pump, there is a hole threaded 3/8x16. Screw a 3/8x16 bolt in that hole to secure the fuel pump push rod. Remove the old fuel pump. Now is the best time to install neoprene lines and in-line fuel filters as described above. Install new fuel pump. Remove 3.8x16 bolt before you start the engine. I swapped the high energy ignition (HEI) with a [microprocessor] electronic module) for a [traditional and EMP-proof ] points-type distributor. The HEI distributor is $200 and points-type distributor is $50. I replaced Quadra-Jet 4 barrel carburetor with an Edelbrock 1405 4 bbl carb, and bought a calibration kit. I can change jets and rods for anything from max power in axle-deep mud to economy cruise at high altitude. Just now I have it calibrated for 6,000 foot elevation. In East Texas 400 foot elevation at 65 mph I average 12.5 mpg.
My carb flooded. The engine would not start. I disassembled the carb on my tailgate and found a defective float. I replaced both floats (from my tool box), reassembled the carb and drove home. In my truck toolbox I carry at all times a starter, alternator, fuel pump, complete distributor; extra points, condenser and rotor; and hand tools ...as well as food, a rifle or two, two axes, and a daypack with a few goodies. If you ain't got it with you it could be a long walk to get it. I use the alternator but have a generator; and installed a wire-wound voltage regulator. The generator stays in my toolbox. It takes only minutes to bolt the generator in place.
Chevrolet part number 3814970, right exhaust manifold, has a place to mount the generator. It fits all Chevy/GMC small block V8 '73 thru '86. You can order a new one from your dealer. A generator-equipped vehicle with standard transmission will roll-start without a starter or a battery. If the battery is missing, secure the positive battery cable clamp where it cannot possibly ground. Tape it to a heater hose. Roll start and go! An alternator must be electrically energized to produce electric current. If your truck has an alternator you must have a battery.  Avoid automatic transmissions. Since around 1960 [US built] automatic transmission vehicles will not push start. We can thank Big Brother for the many changes in automotive design. Electromagnetic pulse (EMP) from a nuclear detonation 400 miles above earth will destroy all unshielded electronic parts in line-of-sight. ...... the electronic components in Electronic-Fuel Injection, alternators, telephones, radios, televisions, computers, watches, GPS........etc In 1945 we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At that time all vehicles had carburetors, generators with wire-wound voltage regulators, and points-type ignition. Vehicle exposed to EMP were still operable. In the early 1950s US conducted nuclear tests in Nevada, and studied effects of nuclear weapons ([including] EMP). Shortly thereafter the generator was replaced with an alternator that has unshielded electronic "chips" .. If your racy 2007 model Technodazzle stops, call the AAA. Have it towed to the dealer. A highly educated Automotive Diagnostic Technician will attach it to a $100,000 computer to learn which parts to change. Repairs may cost as little as four months pay. 1973 through 1986 Chevy/GMC 4x4 pickup, Blazer and Suburban (seats nine if you wish) have 95% parts interchange. The same carb, fuel pump, alternator, starter fits them all. Every junkyard from Fairbanks to Florida has lots of old Chevy 4x4s.

Procedure for Changing HEI to Traditional Points Ignition on a 1976 GMC/Chevy V8 350:

A picture is worth a 1000 words. At the public library find a Chilton manual for 1974 Chevy/GMC V8 350 and study the engine ignition wiring; and photocopy those pages to use as a guide. If possible, find someone who drives a 74 or older GMC V8 350 and eyeball his wiring. buy these parts
- rebuilt points distributor for 1974 GMC V8 350, with cap and rotor
- also buy replacement points, rotor and condenser (for later tune up. each time you use tune up parts, immediately buy replacements for your toolbox for next time.)
- buy the Allen wrench with long handle with which to adjust the points
- set of points-type spark plug wires
- 8 each AC-Delco # 44 spark plugs (Gap them to 0.035")
- two ballast resistors ( one goes in toolbox for later)
- one coil and coil bracket (you may want to buy an extra coil at this time)
STEP ONE is to read all instructions three times before you do anything else. If possible have an experienced friend oversee your installation.
Begin:
-remove negative battery cable clamp from the alternator bracket.
-tape the negative battery cable to a heater hose (so it cannot ground).
-mount ballast resistor on the firewall.
-mount the coil and bracket on the fire wall below the ballast resistor.
-the (only ) RED wire that presently runs from ignition switch through firewall to your HEI distributor will be connected to the driver side of the ballast resistor. (cut the red wire at a point 3" from HEI distributor. cut a 15" inch piece of number 12 insulated wire to extend the RED wire to connect to driver side of ballast resistor.
use a butt connector to connect 15" wire to red wire. use a spade connector to connect it to ballast resistor.)
-with an 8" piece of number 12 insulated wire, spade connector on each end, connect passenger side of the ballast resistor to the "plus" ( + ) side of the coil.
-the only black wire hanging out the bottom of the points distributor connects to the
minus ( - ) side of the coil. (it goes from points to minus side of the coil)
For future reference, with a white paint stick, mark a large - and + on the coil. when you are cold, tired and the wind is blowing up your jacket (and your wife is asking if you got it fixed yet) it will help to see those marks and not have to rely on memory.
points distributor cap terminals --
#2 is the first terminal CW of the "door" in the distributor cap where you adjust the points.
firing order is 1 - 8 - 4 -3 - 6- 5- 7 - 2
with masking tape label points distributor cap terminals, HEI distributor terminals, and each HEI spark plug wire near the spark plug.
driver side front to back 1, 3, 5, 7 ..... and passenger side front to back 2, 4, 6, 8;
pull the plug wires off each spark plug but leave them connected to distributor cap.
remove HEI distributor cap with spark plug wires still attached. lay that aside for now.
Note the position of HEI distributor rotor. If it points to 6 o'clock, write on a 3x5 card "rotor to 6 o'clock" and tape that card on inner fender.
-loosen hold-down bolt ( 9/16" wrench) and remove HEI distributor
-install points distributor with rotor pointing to 6 o'clock (if that is what you wrote on the 3x5 card taped to the inner fender). the points distributor rotor must point exactly as did the HEI distributor rotor.
-hand tighten the hold-down bolt. later you will need to turn the distributor by hand when setting the timing.
you bought new AC 44 plugs and gapped them 0.035".
-now install the new spark plugs.
-install the points distributor cap.
-install the new plug wires one at a time. using the HEI distributor cap and wires as a guide.
-connect dwell tachometer black clip to ground, red clip to "minus" side of coil
-open the window in the distributor cap, and stick the allen wrench (with long handle) in the points adjust knob.
-connect battery ground cable to alternator bracket.
-remove vacuum hose from distributor, and plug that end of the hose
-with starter turning engine, turn allen wrench to adjust points so dwell reads 30.(book specs 29 to 31)
to set timing:
- with engine idling.
- the vacuum advance hose is still plugged.
- turn distributor CCW to attain maximum idle RPM, then CW to 200 RPM less than maximum
unplug vacuum advance hose. connect unplugged hose to vacuum advance on distributor.
with 9/16" wrench tighten distributor hold-down bolt.
if engine pings or rattles on acceleration:
-- disconnect and plug vacuum advance hose
-- connect dwell tachometer, black to ground , red to minus side of coil
-- loosen hold-down bolt and turn distributor CCW to max idle RPM, then CW to 300 RPM less than max idle RPM.
--tighten hold-down bolt to secure distributor
-- unplug and reconnect vacuum advance hose to distributor

Now let me tell you how we changed points in the shop:
-Since the engine will start if the points gap (which governs dwell angle, the number degrees of distributor rotation that the points remain closed) is close to .024", we'd install the point set and eyeball the gap to that.
-You can use a matchbook cover if yer eye is out of calibration.
-Then we'd crank it up and slowly turn the adjustment to the point where the engine began to stumble, then back the other way til it began to ping. The correct dwell would be -- within limits -- at the midpoint between the two.
-Timing can be done the same way mentioned previously but listening for the "ping and stumble" and setting midpoint between.
-When doing timing or dwell by this method, make the adjustment as smoothly as possible to make changes in engine sound more easily detectable. Keeping the distributor clamp screw just finger snug will make this easier when doing the timing.
-I toss this on the pile because there will be times when ya just do no have a dwell [meter/]tachometer in your pocket and have to change out ignition components that require adjustment. Get in tune with the pitch and sound of a properly tuned engine running at idle. When I was doing this stuff regularly in my shop (I once was an automotive masochistic), I could by ear tell engine speed within 50 RPM -- no BS on this. If you are serious about this stuff, get intimate with your vehicle.

Packing '73-'86 GMC/Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 front wheel bearings:
As always read instructions three times before you do anything else. You will need a metal pie plate and large magnet
- place magnet in center of pie plate.
- place small parts on magnet. (they will be there when you look for them)
special 3/8" drive socket for castellated nut inside hub
3/8" allen wrench
3/8" drive breaker bar
3/8 x 16 x 3" bolt
-wheel bearing grease
-spindle grease seal
-hub grease seals
-- chock rear wheel front and back
-- loosen front wheel lug nuts
-- raise front of truck on jack
-- place stands under axle housing
-- remove front wheel
-- with 3/8 allen wrench remove bolts that secure brake caliper
( place bolts on magnet in pie plate)
-- remove brake caliper and secure it without stretching or kinking brake hose
-- remove hub
-- with snap ring pliers remove snap ring
-- with special socket remove outer castellated nut
-- remove the washer (++ note that it has a pin that fits into a hole in the inner castellated nut)
-- remove inner castellated nut
-- remove rotor
-- remove the six nuts that secure the spindle
-- remove the spindle. it may be necessary to tap spindle with a brass hammer to remove it . do not use a steel hammer as that will mar the spindle-remove oil seal on inner side of rotor
-remove inner wheel bearing. wash it in solvent. dry it. apply new grease. put a golf ball size lump of grease in the palm of your left hand. place new bearing on the lump of grease. place right hand over left. squeeze hands together to force grease into the new bearing.
-place greased new bearing in the inner side of rotor. place new oil seal. with a brass hammer, or wooden handle very gently tap around the seal seating it.
-remove oil seal from spindle. remove old spindle bearing. grease and install new spindle bearing, install new spindle seal. A note on reassembly: Screw the 3/8x16x3" bolt into the threaded hole in the end of the axle. pull outward on the axle so you can get the snap ring on.
PS: Buy new wheel bearings and spindle bearings and seals to keep in reserve. Open each package. Grease the new bearings. Wrap them and put them back in the package. This will serve to keep them from rusting; and allow you to install greased bearings in the field. Keep the new bearings and seals in the toolbox on your truck.

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #101 on: August 26, 2007, 11:27:44 PM »
Making & Selling Tire Gardens

By Kurt Saxon

Raised beds are the best way to garden, for several reasons. First,
the plants are closer together so there is little weeding and greater
productivity. Since they are several inches off the ground there is
less stooping. The drainage is better. You supply the soil so there
are no rocks, and you don't have to dig or plow the garden. Raised
beds are usually a series of small garden plots which can be put here
and there wherever there is a few square feet of space.

The drawback is that they are expensive. Like with railroad ties,
which are costly and waste a lot of space in wood. Even 1x10 wooden
boards cost a lot and unless specially treated, they rot. Then there
is all that sawing and carpentry getting them together.

Tires are the answer. A standard P235/75R15 tire has 4 square feet of
growing space when you cut out the sides right up to the tread. It
gives a bed 8 1/2 inches above the ground. A P215/75R15 is 6 3/4
inches above the ground and has less planting area so the P235/75R15
is your best choice.

If you are husky you can use a strong sharp hunting knife to saw
around the treads in about five minutes. But first you must use a
quarter-inch drill to make the starting hole.

Your saber-saw will need a wood cutting blade with 10 teeth to the
inch. For faster cutting, grind both sides of the blade, leaving the
teeth, but very thin. This will cut through tire rubber like butter.
It's fun.

Many places selling tires will charge a customer a dollar a piece to
dispose of them. They don't want them. They're free. Go to your Tire
World or such in most towns, and take your pick from great piles.
They'll bless you for taking them away.

Any business selling and mounting tires will have a stack in back you
can have. Here you can take your pick of truck tires a foot and a half
thick with ten square feet of space with the side cut out, to
standards and compact tires, on down to little bitty tires from
three-wheelers.

Compact tires make neat little beds which could be put on decks,
porches, along walks, etc. They are perfect for herb gardens. A novel
way would be to paint them in pastel colors and letter them "Catnip,"
"Thyme," "Marjoram," "Parsley," "Chives," etc. Most homeowners seeing
them would want a set. A profitable use for tires from three-wheelers
would be hanging baskets. These are often expensive but those made
from three-wheeler tires would cost almost nothing. To make one, cut
out the side at the tread and drill four holes with an eighth inch
drill a half inch down the tread. Then cut two strong wires; their
length depending on your need. Push the end of one wire from the
outside to the inside and back out the next hole. Do the same with the
second wire and pull both wires taut. Then bring them together above
the tire and twist them into a three-inch strand and bend it into a
hook.

Cut a circle from one inch chicken wire to fit the bottom inside of
the tire. Then layer the bottom with grass, straw or moss and fill the
planter with soil. Now put in the plant and hang it up. These would be
especially good for growing cherry tomatoes on your patio.

But we're mainly interested in real gardens. Say you have a regular
garden space. You'd put P235/75R15 tires all around the fence. The
spaces between the tires' curves and the fence would be filled with
earth to plant more back there. Weeds in front could be dealt with by
using any weedeater as the tires would not be harmed and the plants
inside would not be in range. Actually, the walks between tires should
be spread with wood chips or gravel to eliminate weeds altogether.

A good thing about the tires is that they will never disintegrate. So
what makes them an environmental nuisance makes them perfect for a
multi-lifetime garden. Once these are set up, they are permanent. They
will never wear out in your grandchildren's lifetimes and are easy to
maintain.

Of course, naked tires aren't very pretty. They should be painted,
especially if you mean to sell them. I suggest grass-green in
water-base exterior house paint. You can buy it cheaply in five-gallon
containers. A standard tire will take under a cup if turned inside
out. Turning the tires inside-out has five advantages. First is that
the deep rooted plants can go deeper without being stopped by the rim.
Second is that the tires gain an inch or more in height. third is that
they are straight instead of rounded, making for slightly more space.
Fourth, they save paint, as the treads take up much more paint than
the smooth insides. Fifth, if you are selling tire gardens, you can
pile them like rubber bands in you pickup, using up less space.

Turning the tires inside-out is easy if you know how. The first step
is to step on one side of the tire, pushing it to the ground. Next,
reach over and pull the other side of the tire up toward you. Then
keeping your right foot in place, step around with your left foot and
put it alongside your right foot from the other side. Now, keeping
your left foot on the flattened edge of the tire, push the tire over
and grasp the underside of the opposite side and pull. The tire will
now be turned inside-out.

If the tires are laid out against a fence or wall, there will be
spaces between the curvatures of the tires and the backdrop. Instead
of filling these spaces with something to prevent weeds, it is best to
fill them with soil, as each space amounts to about a square foot of
growing area. These can be planted with a few onions, carrots, beets,
etc.

If the backdrop is a wire fence, cardboard or plastic can be put
alongside the fence to keep the soil from going through. A ten-tire
layout will have four one-foot square spaces between the curvatures.
These spaces can also be planted with a pepper plant, an okra plant,
an eggplant, etc.

Start with a basic ten-tire garden plot. Line them up in two rows with
each tire separated a half inch from its neighbor. Fill the spaces
between the tires with soil for more plants.

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #102 on: August 26, 2007, 11:28:36 PM »
You could fill your own garden with these 40 square foot plots and use
them as standards for your commercial enterprise. These would produce
ever so much more than regular gardens.

For instance, one tomato plant, properly supported, fed and watered,
would produce over 100 pounds of tomatoes. If you should have 10 such
plants, that would be over 1,000 pounds. Sell them for 50 cents a
pound and get $500 for some pretty easy part-time work.

Tomatoes aren't seasonal, as most people believe. They die from frost.
Keep them warm, feed them well and they'll live for years, producing
and producing. A single tomato plant grown in a Japanese greenhouse
produced 10,000 pounds.

For tomatoes, cucumbers and Golden or any other small squash, you
should use cages. The reason for the cages is that the most productive
tomato plants grow up
and if not supported will sprawl and the tomatoes will rot on the
ground. The cages allow them to grow upward and you just pick the
tomatoes through the wire. The same goes for cucumbers and small
squash.

For the cages, get a 150 foot, five foot high roll of six-inch
concrete reinforcing wire from any building supply store. Cut it into
three and one half foot lengths with lineman's pliers. If you don't
have strong hands, use a saber-saw with a No. 24 metal cutting blade.
Hold the wire so it doesn't shimmy and cut flush with the vertical
wire. It should zip through the strands one after another. If you
don't have electricity you can use a hacksaw and a metal-cutting
blade.

Your 150 foot roll with give you 42 cages. I paid $43.00 tax included,
which made each cage cost only $l.02 each.

A double use for the concrete reinforcing wire is for a portable cold
frame over the tires in early spring and late fall. First bend the
wire so it covers both sides of the tops of the tires. Then lay
plastic over it and weight it on both sides and the ends. Of course,
this is for your shorter plants.

The other use for the wire is for trellises. The concrete reinforcing
wire is as sturdy as any trellis material you will need. Just cut the
wire as for a cage. Then bend it slightly so it fits along the inside
of the tire and fill the tire with soil. Now plant your beans or any
climbing vegetable close to the wire and you have got the best trellis
ever.

When you get your roll of wire, lay it down so the loose end is on the
bottom. Jerk it so you have a few feet to work with. Count across
seven squares and cut flush on the far side of the horizontal strand.
Now you have three and a half feet and about two inches of vertical
wire facing you.

Take a 6 inch length of 3/8 inch galvanized pipe and bend one inch of
the wire back toward the roll, forming a neat hook. Then bend the
whole thing toward the last horizontal strand and connect the hooks
all along it. The cage won't be perfectly round and doesn't have to
be. But bend it by pressing until it's at least neat.

It might take a few minutes to learn to pull a wire here, push a
section there, press the cage somewhere else to get it pretty even and
to get the hooks to stay in place up and down the horizontal wire.

While learning to do this you can practice swearing. Anyway, after
about the third cage, you can cut the wire, bend the hooks and make
the whole cage in ten minutes or less.

This concrete reinforcing wire is rusty. Concrete doesn't stick well
to galvanized wire so I don't think you can get it galvanized and
fencing wire isn't as strong. In your own garden you may not care,
since there's never enough rust to really soil your hands as you pick.
However, it looks better painted. Just cleaning your brush on the
outside only take a little while and covers most of the rust.

You might spray-paint the cages before bending them. After making the
hooks, spray-paint the upwardly curved side with the nozzle on the
most misty setting. Then put another on top and spray-paint it and so
on. When the stack dries there won't be enough rusty spots to notice
and certainly not enough to get a customer dirty.

With this raised bed system you can also have a greenhouse for each
tire. The tire greenhouse is made of 6 ML greenhouse plastic ordered
through any hardware store. An 8 x 100 foot roll costs about $20 and
makes 16 greenhouses for the caged tires or 32 for those without
cages.

This mini-greenhouse lets you begin your garden two months before the
regular growing season. It also lets you keep growing two months after
the first frost. That way you'll get three garden crops a year instead
of two.


 To make these mini-greenhouses, first roll out and cut four 6 foot lengths of
plastic. Fold each over sideways and close the top and side with 2
inch wide masking tape, neatly so there is one inch on each side. Then
run a hot iron slowly down the tape on the top and side, on both sides
of the tape, being careful not to get the iron on the bare plastic.
This will melt the plastic so there will be a permanent bond. To be
sure, put staples every four inches along the tape.

Take your pipe and bend the wires protruding over the tops of the
cages inward so they don't poke holes in the plastic.

The greenhouse will fit loosely over the cage and then over the tire.
It can be raised as high as needed to get at the bed and for picking
and performs all the functions of any greenhouse. It is very stable
around the cages since they are put in the tires before the soil is
added.

The plastic is guaranteed for two years on a greenhouse. This is for
year-round, all weather. These mini-greenhouses would be used only two
months each in early spring and late fall. They wouldn't be subjected
to the hot summer sun or the winter snow. Just using them when
necessary and storing them in winter and summer, they could last twice
as long.

Since 100 feet will make 16 six foot greenhouses or 32 four footers,
they are indeed inexpensive. That's only $1.25 for the caged tires and
$.63 each for the smaller ones. The smaller ones would be supported by
two 2 1/2 foot sticks stuck in the sides of the tires.

So much for the basic tire garden.

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #103 on: August 26, 2007, 11:29:10 PM »
Another use for the tires is in making compost. This is simply rotted
organic matter such as weeds, garbage, manure and anything else that
will break down. Compost is your basic soil conditioner. Gardening
magazines show many designs for making composters. They usually
involve a lot of wood frames, chicken wire and such and can run into
money.

With tires, you can make excellent composters at no cost at all.
Simply cut six standard tires at the treads, both sides. Put one down
on the bare ground, unless you have a cement or board surface. Fill
the first tire, then put on another. Keep filling and stacking until
you've used up all your organic matter, and if you have more, ready
another set of tires.

After a couple of weeks, lift off the top tire and lay it down beside
the stack. Then shovel what was in the top tire into the one on the
ground. Repeat with the next and so on. That's all there is to turning
compost. In a few weeks, when it all has an earthy smell, it's ready
to mix with soil.

Now for the economics of the tire garden.

If it's just for yourself and your family, you can just raise all the
veggies you can eat and sell the surplus. Just charge 30% less than
the stores and you'll sell all you can raise.

You could supply every restaurant for miles around. Organically grown
fresh garden vegetable taste ever so much better than those trucked in
from out-of-state. Tomatoes, alone, grown in real soil, locally, have
a taste no industrial tomato factory can match. Organic Gardening has
had several articles about people who make a good living growing
nothing but tomatoes.

Say you have a fairly large garden space of 100x100 feet. For an
initial investment of a few hundred dollars, you could lay out a
couple of hundred tires which could compete with any wholesale seller
of vegetables.

I'm not going to teach you how to garden. Your library has dozens of
good books covering every step of the art. I might suggest, however,
that you specialize in just three or four vegetables, get a reputation
for quality and freshness and make an excellent living growing and
selling them. But you might rather sell tire gardens themselves. Start
with 10 tires, four cages (two for tomatoes, one for cucumbers and one
for squash). Add the planting medium.

The tires cost nothing. The cages cost $4.08. The planting medium (two
parts soil to one part compost) may cost up to $5.00 per tire, or
considerably less. Paint, may be a dollar, and your materials cost is
under $60.00. Of course, there's labor. But if you have a couple of
buddies, or make it a family business and sell the 10 tire complete
gardens for $250.00, you'd get about $190.00 profit or more. Aside
from processing, delivery and setup shouldn't take more than a couple
of hours.

Marketing tire gardens is easy.

They would sell mainly to older people who couldn't go get the tires,
cut them and fill them but would be delighted to plant, care for and
harvest them. Most older people would shell out $250.00 in a minute to
insure a large portion of their food for the rest of their lives.

So even if you don't appreciate this idea, older people will. And
there will be a market for all the tire gardens you can produce. But
there are a lot of mature young people, too. Not all of them are
physical enough to gather the materials for the gardens but would
welcome them ready-made.

It's no trouble to get soil and compost. Look up "landscaping" in your
Yellow Pages. They'll deliver soil at well under 50 cents a cubic
foot, compost and whatever you need, by the truckload. If you just
want to set up a tire garden for yourself, your local nursery and
garden supply can sell you everything you need at a reasonable cost.

To run such a business, all you need is the simple, cheap and easily
available equipment described in this article. You will also need a
standard pickup truck, which you may already have. If you don't have
one, get one. If you drive a car, trade it in for a pickup. If you're
going into any kind of business involving hauling, you need a pickup,
anyway.

Now to selling the service.

First you set up sample tire gardens, featuring all the ideas in this
article and ideas you will come up with. You might even stock a supply
of bedding plants, seeds, garden tools, etc., when you've become
established. But with your sample gardens, it would be best to have
them already started, plants and all. Then contact your local
newspaper and they'll be glad to do a feature story.

Put an ad in the same issue saying, "Come and see our tire gardens and
let us set up one for you! " People will start coming around and
you'll have all the business you can handle from then on.

Don't be afraid others will compete with you. You'll have the jump on
any competition if you do a good job, and people will choose you over
the competition.

Be sure to order the tire recycling book. It will give you many more
ideas for using tires both around your place and to make a good,
low-overhead living.

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #104 on: August 26, 2007, 11:29:50 PM »
TIRE GARDEN UPDATE
This short update will appear in THE SURVIVOR (formerly Shoestring
Entrepreneur) Volume 9, Issue 3
By Kurt Saxon

I made a tire garden, as described in my article, "Making And Selling
Tire Gardens", issue 2 of Shoestring Entrepreneur. It was very
productive and easy to work.

However, my advice to leave the bottom side of the tire uncut was
unwise. It didn't act as a reservoir. I had some of the tires taken up
at the end of the season to replace some of the soil I had mixed
improperly. I found the bottom rims root-bound.

Also, I had decided to have the tires turned inside-out and this can't
be done unless both sides are cut out. Turning the tires inside-out
has five advantages. First is that the deep-rooted plants can go
deeper without being stopped by the rim. Second is that the tires gain
an inch or more in height. Third is that they are straight instead of
rounded, making for slightly more space. Fourth, they save paint, as
the treads take up much more paint that the smooth insides. Fifth, if
you are selling tire gardens, you can pile them like rubber bands in
your pickup, using up less space.

Turning the tires inside-out is easy if you know how. The first step
is to step on one side of the tire, pushing it to the ground. Next,
reach over and pull the other side of the tire up toward you. Then,
keeping your right foot in place, step around with your left foot and
put it alongside your right foot from the other side. Now, keeping
your left foot on the flattened edge of the tire, push the tire over
and grasp the underside of the opposite side and pull. The tire will
now be turned inside-out.

If the tires are laid out against a fence or wall, there will be
spaces between the curvatures of the tires and the backdrop. Instead
of filling these spaces with something to prevent weeds, it is best to
fill them with soil, as each space amounts to about a square foot of
growing area. These can be planted with a few onions, carrots, beets,
etc.

If the backdrop is a wire fence, cardboard or plastic can be put
alongside the fence to keep the soil from going through. A ten-tire
layout will have four one-foot square spaces between the curvatures.
These spaces can also be planted with a pepper plant, an okra plant,
an eggplant, etc.

Rather than use pliers to bend the projections from the tops of the
reinforced concrete wire cages and the hooks to connect the sides of
the cages, I discovered a better tool. It is simply a six inch length
of 3/8 inch outside diameter galvanized pipe from the hardware store.
This is perfect. You simply put the pipe over the projection, the
length you want, and bend. This is ever so much easier and quicker.

In regards to the plastic mini-greenhouses for caged plants, they are
practical. However, ironing their edges is too uncertain in bonding
the plastic. A better way is to put the masking tape on as instructed,
then with a regular stapler, staple the masking tape and plastic about
one inch in and three inches apart. This should hold it together in
anything less than a tornado.

Also, you don't need to space the tires two inches apart to
accommodate the bottom of the plastic. Just place any sort of weights,
such as rocks, around the bottom, resting on the tire rim.

A double use for the concrete reinforcing wire is for a portable cold
frame over the tires in early spring and late fall. First bend the
wire so it covers both sides of the tops of the tires. Then lay
plastic over it and weight it on both sides and the ends. Of course,
this is for your shorter plants.

The other use for the wire is for trellises. The concrete reinforcing
wire is as sturdy as any trellis material you will need. Just cut the
wire as for a cage. Then bend it slightly so it fits along the inside
of the tire and fill the tire with soil. Now plant your beans or any
climbing vegetable close to the wire and you have got the best trellis
ever.



   

Offline FrancisDade

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #105 on: August 26, 2007, 11:42:08 PM »
Ok y'all-I've posted a lot of stuff I know.  But I wanted to transfer some of it from the PPTV forums over here to the "Tips to Survive" thread.

So, what else? 

Medical skills. Survival Skills. 

Christopher school of natural healing.  Dr. Day.  Bo Gritz. EMT/Paramedic Training at your local tech school.

http://www.jackmtn.com/faq.html#toilet

http://www.jackmtn.com/essp-spring.html

http://www.jackmtn.com/simplog/

http://www.jackmtn.com/aboutESSP.html

https://prisonplanet.tv/forum/index.php?topic=2853.0

"If your fortunate enough to be near deep woods. learn how to survive
in them. youtube has alot of great videos on survival like that heres
a good video that teaches a few basics

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8605845187768600920&q=survival&total=13634&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
its in swedish but with english subtitles. a really fun string of
videos from this guy! watch all the different parts.

and my fav video "naked into the wilderness" about survival with no
knives and only the shirt on your back

http://www.totalvid.com/index2.cfm?source_id=12387&v=82912494

to watch the full video sign up and join...see it free for 7 days you
can just cancel before it bills you. its safe."

http://www.trackerschool.com/course_template_new.asp?tid=3

http://www.kurtsaxon.com/foods006.htm

http://www.laskoschooloflogbuilding.com/

http://www.undergroundhousing.com/book.html

OK, I know that this is a lot.  And that it is easy to get overwhelmed, as I do get that way a lot.

For years the primary antibiotic for the Russian Army has been garlic oil.  Cayenne pepper can be used to stop profuse bleeding, arrest a heart attack, relieve ulcer symptoms and many other things.

I hope that I can help someone with all this information that I have pointed out here. Take care y'all.


Offline hilary_155

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #107 on: August 28, 2007, 09:48:19 AM »
Sonja,

  The US government through the media are the ones fearmongering.  Preparedness is a way to empower and it is this empowerment that dispells the fear.  Just 2 or 3 generations ago everyone practiced preparedness.  Nearly every home owner had a root cellar full of jars of farm and garden surplus.  People took take of themselves and their communities.  They did not wait for FEMA to come to save them.

  Prepardness isn't just in preparation of martial law or an economic collapse.  Preparedness is a common sense way of living.



On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Offline jbrid1138

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #108 on: August 28, 2007, 11:11:40 AM »
Good Post.  Exactly right in what you say. 
We refuse to let our knowlege, however limited, be informed by your ignorance, however vast.
-- David Ray Griffin

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
 -- James Madison (Fourth President USA 1809-1817)

Offline mtngirl1013

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #109 on: August 28, 2007, 02:55:02 PM »
Lots of great info here! Just wanted to express my thanks for those who have shared or will be sharing their knowledge. We have a plan but it hinged on selling our house, which doesn't look like that will happen in time (if the rumors about 9/21 are true). So we are working on a new plan with the limited resources we have.
  Thanks for posting all the great links including the discussion on beginners & firearms, as I'm another that falls into that category.
  Anyway just wanted to share this little tip. Tortilla/corn/potato chips are flammable (cuz they are greasy) and I have successfully used them as kindling. So if ya got some stale chips in your pack or cache they are still good for something.  ;)
Hunting the truth is an art. -H.G. Wells

Always question the received reality. -George Carlin

There is always more misery among the lower classes than there is humanity in the higher.   - Victor Hugo

Offline hilary_155

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #110 on: August 28, 2007, 03:15:49 PM »
There are too many topics in this one thread.  Preparedness covers a wide range of topics and it should be broken down category.

I know there are people out there with the skills and willingness to better organize these concepts.  I will offer some of my thoughts:

Types of preparedness:       Short Term / Long Term
Range of disaster/Collapse:  Local / County / State / Nation / Global
Degree of disaster:             Inconvenient / Life Threatening.

Katrina was Long Term, State Ranging and Life Threatening.  But the surrounding infrastructure survived.  Neighboring and inland states suffered little damage compared to those along the coast.  Most of the aftermath of Katrina did not have to be such a total nightmare.  If one citizen in ten had prepared AND remained in place ready to deal with the aftermath, then the hell on earth that we all saw never would have happened.  The problem is that the authorities tell people to evac. and those best able to deal with the emergency situation are the ones who listen.  This leaves behind a bulk of citizens who do not have the funds, the training, the physical or mental ability needed for such a situation.

What is needed is citizens to volunteer for local citizens-created emergency response groups.  By-pass FEMA altogether.  Such groups could aid in natural disasters in preparation for the time when they will be needed to respond to the federal dictate of martial law.

Offline jbrid1138

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #111 on: August 28, 2007, 03:40:24 PM »
Someone with true organizational skills.  A good person to have handy when things so easily get lost in a drawer (or in this case, a thread) -- out of sight, out of mind. 
We refuse to let our knowlege, however limited, be informed by your ignorance, however vast.
-- David Ray Griffin

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
 -- James Madison (Fourth President USA 1809-1817)

Offline Erick

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #112 on: September 02, 2007, 02:10:07 AM »
One queston I have, Has anyone ever thought about...horses?  IN any forum board I have ever seen, I have never ever seen anyone mention the usefulness of horses.  I know it's wise to store fuel and auto parts, but in an extreme situation, horses may be a very viable means of transportation. They can go where cars cannot go, they can avoid the roads and check-points much easier, plow a field, or haul supplies.  People say don't pack more supplies than you can cary on your back, but couldn't a good horse carry much more or a pack horse led behind you?.  Not to mention,  For example, a disabled person who may not be able to walk very well, or run through the woods...on horseback he could still travel and keep ahead of the enemy, or he could fight a lot easier than he may otherwise. I am not an expert on horses, but since I live in a rural part of Arkansas, and there are horses in almost any pasture in this area, it just seems obvious to me that this would be a major alternative. Am interested in any thoughts on this.  Also any advice on the care and maintenance of horses in a not-so-perfect environment.

Erick
Just Because You're Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They're Not Out To Get You

Offline maddog3n

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #113 on: September 04, 2007, 05:04:48 PM »
For home usage, I'm still thinking of a way to create a reverse osmosis system that will work with common materials.  Please find below a Field Expedient method for making a water percolation filtration system-

Materials:

Charcoal- From the burning of wood (campfire).  Even better is activated charcoal (The best way too make this is to heat the wood indirectly by using a container that has a one way valve [a pressurer cooker] and while it still wood is still hot, open the lid to induce oxygen into the charcoal.  Usually takes about two hours.).  Qty = As much as you can make.

Sand- Should be clean and free of debris.  Qty = About 20-30 lbs

Aggregate - Again should be clean and free of debris- from marble size to the size of a pea.  Qty = 10-20 lbs

Tubular Cloth Container-  If you have a military duffle bag this would be perfect  If not then military BDU's trousers will work as well.  Anything that will hold the weight of the filter system.

Plastic Liner- Trash bags will work.  The thicker the better.  2-5mm is what is ideal. 

Tubing- Qty = 6" to 12"

Sharp Knife

Rope/Twine- Qty = 6' to 10'

Assembly:

Take filtration container and liner, place liner in container. 
Make a singe hole the size of the tubing that you are using through both liner and container. 
Place tubing into hole approximately 1/4 " past the bottom of container (final freespace for sediment). 
Secure tubing in place using rope/twine but ensure that it does not kink the tubing. 
Secure Container into final position that it will rest.
Carefully place 1 1/2" to 2" of aggregate at the bottom of the container.
Next layer 2" to 3" of sand.
Next layer 2" of charcoal.
Next layer 2" to 3" of sand.
Next layer 2" of charcoal.

Continue this type of layering until you are out of materials or the container is reaching it capacity/weight limit. Then ensure last layer is sand and on top of sand place another 1" layer of aggregate.

To use:

This system will work on cold water but will work better and kills parasites if water is boiled for at least 5 minutes but it's better if you can go for 10 min.

Maintenance:

You will have to gauge usage and water taste/clarity vs when to disassemble the system, to clean sand/aggregate/liner and replace the charcoal.  However, before and after usage, all debris should be removed from the top aggregate layer to speed the filtration process and inhibit bacterial growth.

Improvements-

Salt- add layer of 3" to 4" (to taste and activity level) of rock salt between the first layer of aggregate and sand.

Pro: Adds sodium to diet and replenishes sodium level to body.  Helps kill bacteria.
Con: May be a resource that is not available. Needs to be used in moderation - can induce heart failure if salinity level of water is too high.  Hard to get used to the taste.

Cloth vs last layer of aggregate- Cloth should be as fine mesh as possible, ie... t-shirt, cheesecloth, tea towels, etc...

Pro: Lightens the load of the overall weight.  Will collect more large to fine particulate than the last layers of aggregate and sand, which helps keep the unit functioning longer without maintenance.
Con:  Increases promotion of bacterial growth.  Cloth must be replaced and/or cleaned prior to each use.  May be a resource that is unavailable.

Cooking Sieve (Chinois)- This is a cooking utensil that is used to strain stocks, broth, etc.

Pro and cons are the same as the above cloth method with the added con that a good chinois will cost between $60 to $100 but is easier to clean.

Allocated time to complete:
It will take you about three to four hours to make as it does take some time to collect materials.  Minimum two and a half hours if you have other people to help.

I learned this basic method from military survival training and have used it twice while camping.  This is just a bare bones approach.  I'm sure that other people can look at this and come up with more improvements.  I would encourage any suggestions that you may have to be posted here to get out more information. 

Hope this helps

maddog3n
" The great secret of succeeding in conversation is to admire little, to hear much; always to distrust our own reason, and sometimes that of our friends; never to pretend to wit, but to make that of others appear as much as possibly we can; to hearken to what is said and to answer to the purpose. Bl

Offline mikekey.com

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #114 on: September 04, 2007, 06:46:02 PM »
I would like to mention a few ideas.

I am into healthy eating and living. This year I started a whole new garden to support some of my own personal needs, I grow my own wheat for bread making, and other vegatibles, I have had all my salad and wheat neeeds meet all spring and summer and will have a nice winter and fall crop as well. Consider growing your own food. Also consider having a stock pile of seeds. You think Gold will mean shit when shit hits the fan?

People will want things like FOOD and WATER, and seeds will be highly valuable in my opinion.

Also, you should be considering your psychical fitness right now. If you're some fat overweight dude, you aren't going to be running very far.

You should also practice for all scenarios. I just practiced what I will do in the event of a nuclear strike against NOB this weekend. In which I will need to evacuate and rescue my idiot family who didn't listen. (I might just leave them for dead, less mouths to feed)

Also, why the hell are all of you going to go run out into the woods when Martial Law comes? You'll be the first weirdos they round up. The resistance is always in the midst of the occupation, not hiding in the woods. If the NWO is here tomorrow are you going to live the rest of your lives as mountain men? Do you plan on making love to a women running the woods? I want kids damn it! I have a beautiful g/f who I want to marry. I'm not letting the NWO f**k up my life. SCREW THEM, I'm gonna f**king succeed and sponsor a resistance!

"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine whether Americans are to be freemen or slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their houses and farms are to be pillaged and destroyed, and themselves consigned to a state of wretchedness from which no

Offline Erick

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #115 on: September 05, 2007, 12:14:37 PM »
Hi Mikekey,

I agree with you about things like seeds and much needed items for trade and barter with other people. Just about any useful item can be considered as a possible trade good.  I scatter vegetable seeds around in the woods from time to time also, and in pastures here and there whenever Iím out wandering around. and try to collect as many other things as well as i can. Iíve recently began to be more physical fitness-minded also. So many things to think about and so little time imho.

I donít necessarily consider it running and hiding. Besides, everyoneís situation will be different when that time comes. For people like myselfÖI already live in a rural area surrounded by woods and farmland and a few small towns. This is my home and itís what I know.  I wouldnít ever run off and abandon family or true friends in a time like that.  In this case, the woods will be a sensible place to flee to (temporarily) in order to survive, meet up with like minded folk, and then decide how to take the area back. I donít have all the answers, and there are many things that I prolly havenít even considered yet that Iíll likely wish I had thought of. but its just my thoughts on things.

As an aside, Yes I think it would be great to be a mountain man LOL Except we don't have any mountains here  :) Have always wondered wot it would be like if society were ever to revert to the 1800s. Altho I have to say, in my daydreams, it was always in a more peaceful way than wot it would be like if things actually do happen.

Erick
Just Because You're Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They're Not Out To Get You

Offline mikekey.com

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #116 on: September 05, 2007, 12:20:03 PM »
I just don't get why some of you think you are going to be living in the woods for the rest of your lives, that sounds ridiculous.
"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine whether Americans are to be freemen or slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their houses and farms are to be pillaged and destroyed, and themselves consigned to a state of wretchedness from which no

Offline Erick

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #117 on: September 05, 2007, 12:29:54 PM »
Well, I can only speak for myself i suppose, but since I already live in the woods and have for most of my life... I don't see myself moving off to a city somewhere to get involved in that situation and surviving there. This is wot I know, and where I was born. It'll be where I die as well. I'll defend it as best I can. The rural areas are just as important in this as the cities are  I think.  They'll each have their own strategies and best ways of doing things. I've been to a few cities and various places of course, and theres nothing wrong with them.  I mean no disrespect in this regard, I'm just saying this is where I'll do my thing. (and no I wont be HIDING either)  Peace to all,

Erick
Just Because You're Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They're Not Out To Get You

Rock

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #118 on: September 05, 2007, 06:07:15 PM »
I will not break up this thread for 2 reasons,

One:  People need to get a general idea of all aspects of survival from many points of view.
Two:  Those ideas spawn new threads


Now, if you are an expert in one area please start a new thread.

This is a thread that is gaining in Google.  That will get people outside the movement to wake up when they see this forum.



Rock

Rock

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Re: Tips To Survive: What Will You Do When The Crap Hits The Fan?
« Reply #119 on: September 05, 2007, 06:08:36 PM »
I would like to commend all here for their hard work in giving ideas for survival.  Great job friends,


Rock