Yessssss!!!! Gold Always believe in .... Gold, Your indestructible, GOLD!!!

[agentbluescreen]

This is a rather sobering report that would indicate that silver is a far, far better and less risky "investment" decision than "banking" on gold at current prices is. The 1980 recovery looms large in this scenario, but exactly how possible or likely is such a repeat of that? I and many do not see any silver-linings at all in the economic clouds of the near future, do you? I'd be converting gold value into (Max Keiser ) silver value in my savings portfolio just to be safe!

BUT in particular, I find the second graph in this old report very fishy!

http://www.fool.com/investing/etf/2010/11/02/warning-gold-could-drop-below-500.aspx
Warning! Gold Could Drop Below $500
^{By Alex Dumortier
November 2, 2010 | Comments (134)}
Excerpt:

Gold has performed very strongly over the past decade, trouncing equities and bonds in the process and handing investors who own the SPDR Gold Shares (NYSE: GLD  ) or the iShares Gold Trust (NYSE: IAU  ) handsome gains. Amid a heated debate about whether gold is in a bubble, it's worth taking a historical view to examine the risk investors are taking by paying more than $1,300 for an ounce of gold.

Gold's real return: zero

In fact, gold appears to have eked out a small positive real return over time. Using data from the World Gold Council and precious metal dealer Kitco, I was able to construct a series of inflation-adjusted gold prices going back to 1851, according to which gold generated a historical average return of 0.7% per annum. However, even that small positive real return is a bit of a mirage resulting from the powerful gold rally we've witnessed. Indeed, as recently as 2005, gold's average real return over 154 years was zero, period.

That shouldn't be surprising: There is no reason to expect that an inert asset that produces no cash flows and has few industrial applications to accrete value. By stating that gold has returned nothing, I'm not disparaging the yellow metal; rather, it shows that the precious metal has acted as a store of value -- over the very long term (for practical purposes, however, gold's price volatility makes it unsuitable as a store of value). That's consistent with the notion that it is an alternative currency that no government can debase.

Still, this alternative currency could be in for a big devaluation. To see why, look at the following graph of 10-year trailing real returns for gold since 1861 (based on average annual gold prices):


^{Sources: World Gold Council, Kitco.}
Recent gains could reverse

There are two important observations to make:

-¹- Gold returns are mean-reverting: The alternating peaks and valleys in the graph illustrate the fact that periods of higher-than-average returns tend to usher in periods of lower-than-average returns, and vice-versa. That's not surprising since this property shows up across different asset classes, including stocks.

-²- Investors who have owned gold over the past 10 years have earned a real return that is far in excess of the historical average. In fact, there is only prior period that witnessed higher returns: the bull market in gold that culminated in January 1980. Judging by gold's performance over the next two decades, that top capped off an enormous bubble.

Putting one and two together suggests gold returns going forward will be lower than the ones we have become accustomed to during the past decade. Just how severe could a reversal be? Let's take a look at the current price of gold in context. The following chart shows the average annual price of gold expressed in constant 2010 dollars (i.e., inflation-adjusted):


^{*Sources: World Gold Council, Kitco.}
Gold could fall by two-thirds!

Gold is galloping ahead of its historical average (the red line)! In fact, the price of gold would need to fall by almost two-thirds to get back to its long-term average of $456/ ounce, not to mention that markets typically overshoot. That's a sobering thought if you have a significant position in gold.

MORE

I personally do not see from where they derived this red *Real Average Annualized Price (in "constant" 2010 dollars)  line on the second graph above from, it appears to be flat.  There has to be some monkey business here because a 2010 dollar in 1850 dollars should be worth about .003 cents (based on the price of everything else)!  LOL

[Letsbereal]

Utah: Forget dollars. How about gold?
29 March 2011, by Charles Riley (CNN Money)
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/29/news/economy/utah_gold_currency/index.htm



Excerpt:

Gather 'round, gold standard enthusiasts.

There is a new law in the state of Utah that might be of interest.

The Beehive State has a new measure on the books that eliminates state taxes on the exchange of gold and silver coins and directs the legislature to study an "alternative form of legal tender."

The law, signed by Gov. Gary Herbert last week, also recognizes gold and silver coins issued by the federal government as legal tender in the state.

Of course, they already are. But people use them as investments, not pocket change.

The big legal change in Utah is that the state tax code now treats gold and silver coins -- issued by the U.S. Mint -- as currency rather than an asset.

That means no capital gains or other state taxes will be levied when the coins are exchanged.

Federal taxes still apply.

The law has limited applications. As currency, the gold and silver coins, which are usually purchased by individuals as investments, are still only worth their face value in the eyes of the state.

So even if the actual precious metal in your $50 coin has a market value of $1,400, it still only has $50 dollars worth of purchasing power.

[charrington]

Utah: Forget dollars. How about gold?
29 March 2011, by Charles Riley (CNN Money)
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/29/news/economy/utah_gold_currency/index.htm



Excerpt:

Gather 'round, gold standard enthusiasts.

There is a new law in the state of Utah that might be of interest.

The Beehive State has a new measure on the books that eliminates state taxes on the exchange of gold and silver coins and directs the legislature to study an "alternative form of legal tender."

The law, signed by Gov. Gary Herbert last week, also recognizes gold and silver coins issued by the federal government as legal tender in the state.

Of course, they already are. But people use them as investments, not pocket change.

The big legal change in Utah is that the state tax code now treats gold and silver coins -- issued by the U.S. Mint -- as currency rather than an asset.

That means no capital gains or other state taxes will be levied when the coins are exchanged.

Federal taxes still apply.

The law has limited applications. As currency, the gold and silver coins, which are usually purchased by individuals as investments, are still only worth their face value in the eyes of the state.

So even if the actual precious metal in your $50 coin has a market value of $1,400, it still only has $50 dollars worth of purchasing power.

Time to take a trip to Utah ...

[Letsbereal]

Ben Davies
2 April 2011, by Eric King (King World News)
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/2_Ben_Davies.html

Download MP3 from site (right click -->--> save link as)


Ben Davies - Gold Will Advance $400 on Price Discovery
2 April 2011, by Eric King (King World News)
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/4/2_Ben_Davies_-_Gold_Will_Advance_$400_on_Price_Discovery.html

With gold and silver hovering near their recent highs, today King World News interviewed Ben Davies, CEO of Hinde Capital. When asked about a possible breakout in gold Ben stated, “The reasons why I believe there is potential for gold to catch up on the upside is that $1,440 level that we have talked about so many times on the show, I mean it’s amazing how that has capped the market, and I said we have to get through $1,440. Once we are through that level on a weekly closing basis we’re going to get discovery which in my opinion can easily take the gold market up $400.

And that’s the kind of price appreciation that I’m looking for. Part of my macro thought process for why that is happening despite all of the talk about exit strategies which I think is to some extent, yes they could raise rates or certainly have some asset sales, but personally I think the increase in rates would have a huge impact on servicing of debt.

People can’t afford to pay that coupon, I think that would be an exit. I think they (the Fed) are posturing so I’m not completely convinced that rates are going up or that there is going to be any asset sales. I’m more in the QE3 camp...because the events in the Middle-East and North Africa, these are, they are definitely seminal events.

We had the Iranian revolution in ’79, we had Yom Kippur in ’73, we had the Iraq invasion in 1980, we had the Iraq invasion of Kuwait in 1990, all of those events are nowhere near as significant as what we are seeing now and gold did tremendously well. In fact in ’79 when the gold price was actually quite high we had a very good year after that revolution. So for me gold prices will remain high and will go higher and I think it will be coupled with higher, but volatile oil prices.”

[agentbluescreen]

Utah: Forget dollars. How about gold?
29 March 2011, by Charles Riley (CNN Money)
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/29/news/economy/utah_gold_currency/index.htm



Excerpt:

Gather 'round, gold standard enthusiasts.

There is a new law in the state of Utah that might be of interest.

The Beehive State has a new measure on the books that eliminates state taxes on the exchange of gold and silver coins and directs the legislature to study an "alternative form of legal tender."


The law has limited applications. As currency, the gold and silver coins, which are usually purchased by individuals as investments, are still only worth their face value in the eyes of the state.

So even if the actual precious metal in your $50 coin has a market value of $1,400, it still only has $50 dollars worth of purchasing power.

The interesting conundrum lies in the opposite direction for if workers were to freely make binding contracts that stipulated their labor be exchanged for 1 cent and hour paid in gold or silver coin "currencies" where would the corrupted "face value" tax system then be?

[CheneysWorstNightmare]

Someone please explain to me how my $1440 gold coin would get me $50 worth of groceries in Utah?

I don't get what is going on in Utah.

[charrington]

Someone please explain to me how my $1440 gold coin would get me $50 worth of groceries in Utah?

I don't get what is going on in Utah.

It goes something like this - The government sets up standards and values on coins -- Let me give you a real life example.

1 roll of 50 pennies is worth .50 cents.  1 roll of 50 pennies melted down (which is against the law) is worth more then the roll that isn't.

However, with the exchange value so high in gold I seriously doubt they would be able to do that, every coin they made would end up in my pocket and resold in a neighboring state,  UNLESS it's not pure Gold. That is normally how they deal with it. It's mixed with another metal. I don't think they can pull it off either way right now, maybe later.

By the way I'm not suggesting anyone in the forum melt coins for metal value - that would be against the law... Especially not pennies that were made before 1982 ...

[Kilika]

Against the law? Do you know what law? I've read about the melting down of coins but I haven't seen any clear explanation as to whether it's legal or not.

And from what I understand, it costs 1.5 cents to coin a penny, due to the inflated cost of copper, even though the newer pennys are mostly zinc I think, with just a copper plating.

As for gold coins, there's no way we can go by the face value of a gold coin, and for that matter silver either. IF we have gold and silver coins, they would need to be based on weight for it's value, such as having a 1/4 ounce coin rather than a $50 face value coin.

[Lisbeth]

RED ALERT email between Metal Experts - about Confiscation of Gold and Silver by the U.S. Government - Potentially this year for a New World Currency - from Multiple High Inside Sources.

RED ALERT

Editor: There is a plan to use the IMF (AKA US Treasury and Wall Street) to be the front man for the new world order and one currency. We also got disturbing news yesterday from an impeccable source that when gold touches $2,000 it’s confiscated in the USA for about $200. Then it’s to be reissued by the Treasury for $10,000 per ounce to back the new IMF world currency using SDRS in 2011.  Large physical gold is being moved to Canada.  http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/10/markets/dollar/index.htm

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2011/02/exclusive-red-alert-email-between-metal.html

[Kilika]

I think this particular claim is being at least misinterpreted ( I personally think some people are twisting facts to garner attention). Nowhere have they said they want to replace the dollar as the public's currency. What they are talking about is the currency they use at the international banking levels. They aren't talking common folk currency, yet.

The goal is to have a reserve asset for central banks that better reflects the global economy since the dollar is vulnerable to swings in the domestic economy and changes in U.S. policy.

In addition to serving as a reserve currency, the IMF also proposed creating SDR-denominated bonds, which could reduce central banks' dependence on U.S. Treasuries. The Fund also suggested that certain assets, such as oil and gold, which are traded in U.S. dollars, could be priced using SDRs.

And the whole gold confiscation thing is a rumor being spread without any proof. It's a fear that has been around ever since FDR did it. More rumormongering. Sure they could do it again, but until there is real evidence, it's just rumor and urban legend to draw attention to people's websites for traffic.

Large amounts of gold bullion is being moved around all the time. That of itself is no indication of some conspiracy.

Some people either need to get educated, or they need to stop with the rumor/fearmongering because it makes the whole effort of getting the truth out look silly.

[charrington]

I think this particular claim is being at least misinterpreted ( I personally think some people are twisting facts to garner attention). Nowhere have they said they want to replace the dollar as the public's currency. What they are talking about is the currency they use at the international banking levels. They aren't talking common folk currency, yet.

And the whole gold confiscation thing is a rumor being spread without any proof. It's a fear that has been around ever since FDR did it. More rumormongering. Sure they could do it again, but until there is real evidence, it's just rumor and urban legend to draw attention to people's websites for traffic.

Large amounts of gold bullion is being moved around all the time. That of itself is no indication of some conspiracy.

Some people either need to get educated, or they need to stop with the rumor/fearmongering because it makes the whole effort of getting the truth out look silly.

Yeah but don't you think that's kind of like saying -- don't worry, you haven't had a heart attack in a long time so it's just a rumor that you could have another one? I mean if it's happened before... tell me why it can't happen again?

Wouldn't it be better to take preventive measures?

In one respect I agree with you, but in another you can't put anything past them - nothing is sacred. Doesn't it make better sense to protect your assets just in case?

The Government can do whatever it likes, in past they took all but the gold valued coins and allegedly put them in "deep storage". Things will be much worse this time with the banksters in charge - be careful, use your head and don't underestimate the Governments capacity to do evil.   

[Kilika]

be careful, use your head and don't underestimate the Governments capacity to do evil.

If that is directed at me, then you really haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying in these forums.

"lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth where moth and rust doth corrupt..."

[Letsbereal]

GOLD’S RATTLING AT THE GATE AGAIN OF $1,440 o/z
http://www.goldprice.org/spot-gold.html

[charrington]

If that is directed at me, then you really haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying in these forums.

"lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth where moth and rust doth corrupt..."

I was just answering to your comments in the last post, there really wasn't anything spiritual in it

[charrington]

GOLD’S RATTLING AT THE GATE AGAIN OF $1,440 o/z
http://www.goldprice.org/spot-gold.html

Rattle rattle rattle -- break it already...

[ekimdrachir]

Look at the charts today, very interesting moves by both Gold & Silver...

silver went down, barely from yesterday, but down,



though Gold went down, then WAY up, then down correction.. analysis?

[Letsbereal]

NEW ALL TIME HIGH FOR GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC8Ch-bZPt4

Donnow what it is exactly but Above the Ol Record at 24 March 2011, that's for sure.


btw Found a New All time High at MarketWatch – Gold tapped an intraday records high of $1,448.60 an ounce on March 24 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-futures-trade-in-record-territory-2011-03-31

I had a Gold All Time High at $1,446.75 per ounce om 24 March 2011 from GoldAlert: http://www.goldalert.com/2011/03/new-all-time-high-for-gold/


Sprott Physical Gold Trust Announces Follow-on Offering of Trust Units In An Aggregate Amount of Up to $340 Million
4 April 2011, (Market Wire)
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Sprott-Physical-Gold-Trust-Announces-Follow-on-Offering-Trust-Units-In-An-Aggregate-TSX-PHY.U-1422374.htm

[Letsbereal]

Gold Surges to $1,452, New Record High
(GoldAlert) http://www.goldalert.com/2011/04/gold-surges-to-1452-new-record-high/

Gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5N3p2we_og

[Letsbereal]

New Gold Time Highs all the Time – Gold Broke $1,455!!!
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au24hr3day.html

[Letsbereal]

Eric Sprott
5 April 2011, by Eric King (King World News)
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/5_Eric_Sprott.html

Download MP3 from site (right click -->--> save link as)


KWN Weekly Metals Wrap
2 April 2011, by Eric King (King World News)
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/2_KWN_Weekly_Metals_Wrap.html

ONE OF JT’S MOST IMPORTANT INTERVIEWS - James Turk
2 April 2011, by Eric King (King World News)
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/2_James_Turk.html

Ben Davies - Gold Will Advance $400 on Price Discovery
2 April 2011, by Eric King (King World News)
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/4/2_Ben_Davies_-_Gold_Will_Advance_$400_on_Price_Discovery.html

[Letsbereal]

GOLD FRESH ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,457.80 o/z

Spot gold last traded up $22.30 at $1,457.80. Spot Silver closed up 1.79%, or $0.69 at $39.30 an ounce Tuesday, hitting another fresh 31-year high
http://www.proactiveinvestors.com.au/companies/news/15265/gold-surges-to-all-time-record-high-15265.html

Go for Gold - Party! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5N3p2we_og

Kelly's Heroes -- Go for Gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC8Ch-bZPt4

Yessssss!!!! Gold Always believe in …. Gold, Your indestructible, GOLD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVuwXM9u2ps

Brad Neely – Bring The Gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qO66Rmi1Mw

The Ecstasy of Gold (Enio Moricone) LIVE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNGe7iK1O-4

The Ecstasy of Gold (Enio Moricone) – Film Footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PwpOmjAu1M

GOLD -- Beginning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmJpJdjZERE

[charrington]

According to the charts it's not yet the highest recent high. Lets see what happens tomorrow. If it's another day like today then it's not a bounce.

[Letsbereal]

Fresh Gold All-Time High At $1,460.20 (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-06/asia-stocks-oil-fall-on-outlook-for-u-s-stimulus-china-rates-yen-drops.html

[Letsbereal]

According to MarketWatch gold hit an high of $1,467 an ounce Frankly I can’t see that back in Kitco’s graph
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-hits-new-record-silver-at-31-year-high-2011-04-06

I do see a GOLD NEW RECORD ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,461.90 o/z
Kitco’s graph http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110223_iCharts_main&utm_campaign=iCharts

The ol record was At $1,460.20 (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-06/asia-stocks-oil-fall-on-outlook-for-u-s-stimulus-china-rates-yen-drops.html

[Amos]

Did Linsey Williams just say silver is to be run up to $300 an oz.?

According to MarketWatch gold hit an high of $1,467 an ounce Frankly I can’t see that back in Kitco’s graph
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-hits-new-record-silver-at-31-year-high-2011-04-06

I do see a GOLD NEW RECORD ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,461.90 o/z
Kitco’s graph http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110223_iCharts_main&utm_campaign=iCharts

The ol record was At $1,460.20 (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-06/asia-stocks-oil-fall-on-outlook-for-u-s-stimulus-china-rates-yen-drops.html

[/quot

[Letsbereal]

Did Linsey Williams just say silver is to be run up to $300 an oz.?

Heard him but was busssy cooking so didn't hear him in detail. Go for the rerun anyways cause I mist the beginning.

But Silver $300? Yeah could well be in the mania that will come ... why not .... rerun

Or maybe someone else


btw LINDSEY WILLIAMS WAS RIGHT!!!

Wrap Up: Lindsey Williams on AJS January 2011

DOLLAR – The Elite is on a Timeline to the end of 2012 when the dollar will be dead. Dollar won’t be a world currency anymore.

OIL – Oil to $150 – $200 within 6-8 months. Watch the price of crude oil and you know the progression of the elite program.

SILVER AND GOLD – Silver and Gold is the only money the elite rely on.

Comex only has 107 million ounces of silver against 720 million ounces of obligations. 4 people found out about that and on 7 December 2010 demanded 1 million ounces of physical silver delivery which spin tailed the Comex.

EURO – EU will have a major problem. The Euro will collapse first before the American Dollar. You’ve got three weeks to get out of paper money once the Euro has crashed.

FOOD – Food is going up rapidly. Escalating food costs trough a declining dollar.

[agentbluescreen]

Heard him but was busssy cooking so didn't hear him in detail. Go for the rerun anyways cause I mist the beginning.

But Silver $300? Yeah could well be in the mania that will come ... why not .... rerun

Or maybe someone else

Yeah he was even saying 500 and suggesting an ultimate  10:1 ratio. JP MORGAN HAVE apparently pledged their shares in a desperate last ditch scramble to back their trillions of silver shorts.

SILVER LIBERATION ARMY!!!

IMHO This criminal fascist attack on the Liberty Dollar just sunk all their battleships and carriers - they have hoist themselves on their own criminal petard and are now in full defeat, retreat and disarray.

[Letsbereal]

FRESH GOLD RECORD ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,465.20 o/z
Kitco’s graph http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110223_iCharts_main&utm_campaign=iCharts

[Letsbereal]

Surprising Observations From TrimTabs: "Are Central Bankers Loading Up On Gold?"
7 April 2011, by TrimTabs' Charles Biderman (Zero Hedge)
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/surprising-observations-trimtabs-are-central-bankers-loading-gold

After Nearly Two Years Of Searching, TrimTabs Still Can't Figure Out Who Is Buying Stocks
23 December 2010, by TrimTabs' Charles Biderman (Zero Hedge)
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/after-nearly-two-years-searching-trimtabs-still-cant-find-who-doing-all-buying

[ekimdrachir]

BANKS ARE RUNNING OUT OF CASH!!! TOO MANY WITHDRAWLS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rckNSXncg_E

[Letsbereal]

NEW GOLD ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,465.50 o/z
Kitco’s graph http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/?utm_source=kitco&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=20110223_iCharts_main&utm_campaign=iCharts

Go for Gold - Party! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5N3p2we_og

[Letsbereal]

NEW GOLD ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,465.90 o/z

Yessssss!!!! Gold Always believe in …. Gold, Your indestructible, GOLD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVuwXM9u2ps

[Letsbereal]

FRESH GOLD ALL TIME HIGH $1,466.40 o/z
http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/index.jsp

Bring The Gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qO66Rmi1Mw

[charrington]

FRESH GOLD ALL TIME HIGH $1,466.40 o/z
http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/index.jsp

Bring The Gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qO66Rmi1Mw

HUGE change from yesterday haha -- listen man when it takes off that's news.. inching up at .004 daily isn't a ballistic missile. It still has to start that climb and it's not very convincing right now -- don't get me wrong it will get there I have no doubt.

[agentbluescreen]

If Obama bin Soetoro doesn't make peace and get the hell out of Libya it'll be $1600 by the end of the week.

Where the hell is all the Kuwaiti and Iraqi oil that was supposed to pay for those two colossally murderous and expensive catastrophes?

[ekimdrachir]

Dont forget that gas prices are through the roof, they're $1.20 here in Canada already, thats $0.25 more expensive than it was before oil started going up. Lindsay Williams was so right last time he came on the show. That was a good call.

[Letsbereal]

LATEST GOLD ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,472.30 o/z
http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/index.jsp

And Gold climbing again for a new all time high ....

[Letsbereal]

FRESH NEW GOLD ALL TIME HIGH AT $1,474.40 o/z
http://icharts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/index.jsp

And Gold climbing again for a new all time high ....

Go for Gold – Party! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5N3p2we_og

[Paranoid Puppet Master]

Silver heading to $40.50, interesting all this is happening for no apparent reason, right before "Bretton Woods II", coincidence?

[Letsbereal]

HUGE change from yesterday haha -- listen man when it takes off that's news.. inching up at .004 daily isn't a ballistic missile. It still has to start that climb and it's not very convincing right now -- don't get me wrong it will get there I have no doubt.

What are you talkin about?

4 April Gold was rattling at the gate of $1,440 o/z

8 April Golds' at $1,474.40 that's a $34.40 difference.

If you think $34 is notin give me $34 in Gold please.