Fake religious leaders going down - another one bites the dust

[Rock]

Here is one more fake god-fearing leader heading to prison:



Seeeeeeeeeeee Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312307,00.html



ST. GEORGE, Utah —  A judge on Tuesday sentenced a polygamous-sect leader to five years to life in prison for his role in the arranged marriage of teenage cousins.

Warren Jeffs, 51, was convicted of rape as an accomplice for his role in the marriage of a 14-year-old follower and her 19-year-old cousin in 2001. The sentences are to be served consecutively.

It will be up to the Utah parole board to decide just how long he stays behind bars.

Jeffs is head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, whose members practice polygamy in arranged marriages that have often involved placing young girls with older men. Most FLDS members live in the twin communities of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., about 350 miles southeast of Salt Lake City. The church also has a large complex near the West Texas town of Eldorado.

Washington County prosecutors said Jeffs enticed Elissa Wall into marriage and sex against her will by telling her the relationship was commanded by God and that any refusal would place her salvation at risk.

Jurors said Wall's age was a major factor in their decision. Under Utah law, a 14-year-old can consent to sex in some circumstances. But it is not considered consensual if a person under 18 is enticed by someone at least three years older.



Wall, now 21, testified that Jeffs failed to help her when she protested the marriage and when she later asked for a divorce because she was uncomfortable having sex with Allen Steed.

Steed, now 26, told a different version of events. He said Wall initiated sex and denied that she had cried during their wedding ceremony.

Weeks after the Sept. 25 verdict, the judge unsealed court documents that disclosed a suicide attempt by Jeffs in jail. He apparently attempted to hang himself in January, months before trial. Authorities have declined to discuss the incident, although Jeffs was taken to a hospital for just a few hours.

The documents also included selected jail transcripts of phone calls and visits between Jeffs and members of his church. Although he has been president, or prophet, since 2002, following the death of his father, Rulon, Jeffs said in jail that he had not been worthy of the "priesthood" for decades.

"I was immoral with a sister and a daughter when I was younger, so the Lord showed me I'm one of the most wicked men on the face of the Earth since father Adam's time," Jeffs said.

He never elaborated on the immoral acts.

The Associated Press does not typically identify people who allege sexual abuse, but Wall has made several public statements about the case using her maiden name. Citing safety concerns, she and her attorneys have declined to disclose her current legal name. Wall was granted an FLDS divorce by Jeffs after she became pregnant with another man's child; she left the faith and is married.

Steed was charged with rape the day after Jeffs' conviction. His case is pending.

Jeffs faces similar criminal charges in Arizona.

The mainstream Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, renounced polygamy more than a century ago, excommunicates members who engage in the practice and disavows any connection with the FLDS church.

[Rock]

Appropriate song for fake religious leaders

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMenB9Ywh2Q

[Rock]

Sex Scandal Rocks Atlanta-Area Megachurch

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312249,00.html



DECATUR, Ga. —  The 80-year-old leader of a suburban Atlanta megachurch is at the center of a sex scandal of biblical dimensions: He slept with his brother's wife and fathered a child by her.

Members of Archbishop Earl Paulk's family stood at the pulpit of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit at Chapel Hill Harvester Church a few Sundays ago and revealed the secret exposed by a recent court-ordered paternity test.

In truth, this is not the first — or even the second — sex scandal to engulf Paulk and the independent, charismatic church. But this time, he could be in trouble with the law for lying under oath about the affair.

The living proof of that lie is 34-year-old D.E. Paulk, who for years was known publicly as Earl Paulk's nephew.

"I am so very sorry for the collateral damage it's caused our family and the families hurt by the removing of the veil that hid our humanity and our sinfulness," said D.E. Paulk, who received the mantle of head pastor a year and a half ago.

D.E. Paulk said he did not learn the secret of his parentage until the paternity test. "I was disappointed, and I was surprised," he said.

Earl Paulk, his brother, Don, and his sister-in-law, Clariece, did not return calls for comment.

A judge ordered the test at the request of the Cobb County district attorney's office and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which are investigating Earl Paulk for possible perjury and false-swearing charges stemming from a lawsuit.

The archbishop, his brother and the church are being sued by former church employee Mona Brewer, who says Earl Paulk manipulated her into an affair from 1989 to 2003 by telling her it was her only path to salvation. Earl Paulk admitted to the affair in front of the church last January.

In a 2006 deposition stemming from the lawsuit, the archbishop said under oath that the only woman he had ever had sex with outside of his marriage was Brewer. But the paternity test said otherwise.

So far no charges have been filed against Earl Paulk. District Attorney Pat Head and GBI spokesman John Bankhead would not comment.

The shocking results of the paternity test are speeding up a transformation already under way in the church after more than a decade of sex scandals and lawsuits involving the Paulks, D.E. Paulk said.

"It was a necessary evil to bring us back to a God-consciousness," said the younger Paulk, explaining that the church had become too personality-driven and prone to pastor worship.

The flashy megachurch began in 1960 with just a few dozen members in the Little Five Points neighborhood of Atlanta. Now, it is in the suburbs on a 100-acre expanse, a collection of buildings surrounding a neo-Gothic cathedral.

For years the church was at the forefront of many social movements — admitting black members in the 1960s, ordaining women and opening its doors to gays.

At its peak in the early 1990s, it claimed about 10,000 members and 24 pastors and was a media powerhouse. By soliciting tithes of 10 percent from each member's income, the church was able to build a Bible college, two schools, a worldwide TV ministry and a $12 million sanctuary the size of a fortress.

Today, though, membership is down to about 1,500, the church has 18 pastors, most of them volunteers, and the Bible college and TV ministry have shuttered — a downturn blamed largely on complaints about the alleged sexual transgressions of the elder Paulks.

In 1992, a church member claimed she was pressured into a sexual relationship with Don Paulk. Other women also claimed they had been coerced into sex with Earl Paulk and other members of the church's administration.

The church countered with a $24 million libel suit against seven former church members. The lawsuit was later dropped.

Jan Royston, who left the church in 1992, started an online support group for former members to discuss their crushed faith and hurt feelings.

"This is a cult. And you escape from a cult," she said. "We all escaped."

These days, Earl Paulk has a much-reduced role at the cathedral, giving 10-minute lectures as part of Sunday morning worship each week.

"My uncle is 100 percent guilty, but his accusers are guilty as well," D.E. Paulk said, declining to talk further about the lawsuits.

[Rock]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/20/intv.church.scandal.paulk.cnn

[Dig]

President of National Association of Evangelicals accused of 3-year sexual relationship with gay hooker, and of taking drugs
http://www.americablog.com/2006/11/president-of-national-association-of.html
by John Aravosis (DC) · 11/02/2006 11:03:00 AM ET




UPDATE: This guy is reportedly as important as James Dobson:
The press tends to regard Dobson as the most powerful evangelical Christian in America, but Pastor Ted is at least his equal.
UPDATE: Here is how big this story is. Christian evangelical leader Ted Haggard... one of the nation's most influential evangelical Christians, whose overstuffed agenda includes a weekly conference call to the White House. He also claims to have direct access to George Bush:
"We have direct access," says Mr. Haggard, senior pastor of the giant New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. "I can call [Mr. Goeglein], he'll take my concern to the president and get back to me in 24 hours." And he's virulently anti-gay. This guy was on TIME's list of the 25 most influential evangelicals in America. It doesn't get any bigger than this. And he's from Colorado. Wonder what Marilyn Musgrave has to say about this?

From 9News in Denver:
A gay man and admitted male escort claims he has had an ongoing sexual relationship with a well-known Evangelical pastor from Colorado Springs. Mike Jones told '9 Wants to Know' Investigative Reporter Paula Woodward he has had a "sexual business" relationship with Pastor Ted Haggard for the past three years. Haggard is the founder and senior leader of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs. The church has 14,000 members. He is also president of the National Association of Evangelicals, an organization that represents millions of people. Haggard is married with five children and an outspoken critic of gay marriage.... Jones started talking to 9 Wants to Know two months ago. He claims Haggard has been paying him for sex over the past three years, even though Haggard preaches that homosexuality is a sin. Jones also claims Haggard used methamphetamine in his presence on several occasions.... Former NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw profiled Haggard in 2005 in a series on mega-churches. Haggard was also listed by Time magazine as one of the 25 most influential Evangelicals in America last year.

Evangelical Sex Ted Haggert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnynHPNVdyg

Ted Haggard admits he bought Meth from gay prostitute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_dQ5KJ8rgA

[Rock]

Do you trust Pat?




Rock

[sid]

Do you trust Pat?

I've never trusted him.  I've always had a hard time reconciling much of what he says with the teaching of Jesus.  Don't know if he is one of them or not, but politicians often masquerade as preachers.

[Dig]

Exclusive: Jerry Falwell's FBI File
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/washingtonpostinvestigations/2007/11/exclusive_jerry_falwells_fbi_f.html


The Rev. Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority, stirred up passions with his attacks on abortion and homosexuality. Now, the FBI's confidential file on Falwell, who died in May at age 73, reveals that he also stirred up death threats -- including one that sent agents scrambling to figure out how many gay bars there were in Cincinnati. The bureau released 112 pages of the file to Post reporter Joe Stephens under the federal Freedom of Information Act. Read excerpts here. The file, it turns out, is comprised almost entirely of details about threats aimed at the Lynchburg, Va., fundamentalist. (There's no evidence anyone actually tried to harm Falwell.)

Falwell's FBI file contains a 1983 letter sent to his television ministry that concluded with the words, "Hoping you will die soon." It was accompanied by a small plastic box containing a live scorpion. Then there were the calls to Liberty Baptist College in Lynchburg that same year, warning that a $10,000 reward had been offered for Falwell's "assassination" and that it was to be carried out by "gays in Cincinnati." One caller advised, "I know this is true, because my brother is one of them." Said another, "I intend to be the one to collect that money."

That sent FBI agents to a confidential informant they believed knowledgeable about the Midwestern gay community. They debriefed him in a session that generated this memorable passage, typos and all:

"Source furnished a current copy of the Yellow Page, June, 1983, which is Cincinnati's gay newspaper. Circulation in the Cincinnati area is shown to be 2000 copies which is not believed exaggerated. Source stated that the Downtown vicinity of Cincinnati supports eight ( 8 ) gay bars and one (Q) lesbian bar. Source restated the general dislike for Jerry Falwell within the Cincinnati area."

The informant led the agents through the history of New York City's Stonewall riots -- a watershed in the early gay rights movement -- and explained that the uprising was where a local political committee got its apparently enigmatic name: Stonewall Cincinnati. The informant offered to gather intelligence on the "content" of club meetings, including a recent gathering that featured a speaker from the American Civil Liberties Union.

There is no evidence in the file that anyone actually tried to carry out any of the threats, or that the people responsible were ever identified.

[Melody]

Falwell's FBI file contains a 1983 letter sent to his television ministry that concluded with the words, "Hoping you will die soon." It was accompanied by a small plastic box containing a live scorpion.

A live scorpion? A live hand grenade might have got the job done... not that I condone that sort of thing...

[boxcarro]

Under the 1nd. amendment of the Constitution, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press....." The GOVERNMENT has NO RIGHT to put a L.D.S. Member in prison for what is a "FREE EXERCISE of the RELIGIOUS BELIEFS" of the L.D.S. Church.
Makes NO DIFFERENCE, in the TRUE POINT of LAW, under the CONSTITUTION as WRITTEN, if the practice is repugnant to the majority of peoples, the CONSTITUTION was DESIGNED to give the INDIVIDUAL the ALLODIAL FREEDOMS, (the STANDING of ROYALITY; the RIGHTS of KINGS & SOVRIGNS)  The HATE MONGERS, the MYSTERY RELIGION CANAL, the ARCHETECHS of the GLOBAL PRISON STATE are DEFAMING the BLOOD OF JESUS & THE only SOURCE of SECURITY left, for we battle NOT against FLESH, but against principalities, against powers, against spiritual wickedness in the Heavenlies.

To address DIRTY "CHURCHES" I see NOTHING about the International CHURCH of CHRIST...or ALL "CHURCH OF CHRIST, INC" demoninations....Church of Christ WAS is STILL is a C.I.A. CREATED, BACKED & CONTROLLED tool of INFILTRATION into the MISSION FIELDS..to plant JESUIT SPIES in FOREGIN NATIONS, the C.I.A. is TOTALLY controlled by JESUITS, BUSH SGNR is JESUIT SHILL, Geo. W. Bush JESUIT controlled...SKULL & BONES a JESUIT secret order.

THE ENTIRE MEDIA is ANTI-CHRIST, ANTI "BLOOD OF JESUS" Anti- CRUCIFIED, RESSURECTED SAVIOUR, ANTI-JEW, ANTI-FREEDOM! 

[White Rose Sophie]

Exclusive: Jerry Falwell's FBI File
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/washingtonpostinvestigations/2007/11/exclusive_jerry_falwells_fbi_f.html


The Rev. Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority, stirred up passions with his attacks on abortion and homosexuality. Now, the FBI's confidential file on Falwell, who died in May at age 73, reveals that he also stirred up death threats -- including one that sent agents scrambling to figure out how many gay bars there were in Cincinnati. The bureau released 112 pages of the file to Post reporter Joe Stephens under the federal Freedom of Information Act. Read excerpts here. The file, it turns out, is comprised almost entirely of details about threats aimed at the Lynchburg, Va., fundamentalist. (There's no evidence anyone actually tried to harm Falwell.)

Falwell's FBI file contains a 1983 letter sent to his television ministry that concluded with the words, "Hoping you will die soon." It was accompanied by a small plastic box containing a live scorpion. Then there were the calls to Liberty Baptist College in Lynchburg that same year, warning that a $10,000 reward had been offered for Falwell's "assassination" and that it was to be carried out by "gays in Cincinnati." One caller advised, "I know this is true, because my brother is one of them." Said another, "I intend to be the one to collect that money."

That sent FBI agents to a confidential informant they believed knowledgeable about the Midwestern gay community. They debriefed him in a session that generated this memorable passage, typos and all:

"Source furnished a current copy of the Yellow Page, June, 1983, which is Cincinnati's gay newspaper. Circulation in the Cincinnati area is shown to be 2000 copies which is not believed exaggerated. Source stated that the Downtown vicinity of Cincinnati supports eight ( 8 ) gay bars and one (Q) lesbian bar. Source restated the general dislike for Jerry Falwell within the Cincinnati area."

The informant led the agents through the history of New York City's Stonewall riots -- a watershed in the early gay rights movement -- and explained that the uprising was where a local political committee got its apparently enigmatic name: Stonewall Cincinnati. The informant offered to gather intelligence on the "content" of club meetings, including a recent gathering that featured a speaker from the American Civil Liberties Union.

There is no evidence in the file that anyone actually tried to carry out any of the threats, or that the people responsible were ever identified.

And don't forget his ties to Moon and the Unification Church.  Some of the most well-known Christian 'evangelists' and personalities are on boards that are actually fronts for the Moonies.

Amazing.   

[Amishism]

NATIONAL COUNCIL of CHURCHES

African Methodist Episcopal Church
 
The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
 
Alliance of Baptists
 
American Baptist Churches in the USA
 
Diocese of the Armenian Church of America
 
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
 
Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
 
Church of the Brethren
 
The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America
 
The Episcopal Church
 
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
 
Friends United Meeting
 
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
 
Hungarian Reformed Church in America
 
International Council of Community Churches
 
Korean Presbyterian Church in America
 
Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
 
Mar Thoma Church
 
Moravian Church in America Northern Province
and Southern Province
 
National Baptist Convention of America

National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
 
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
 
Orthodox Church in America
 
Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA
 
Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
 
Polish National Catholic Church of America
 
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
 
Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
 
Reformed Church in America
 
Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada
 
The Swedenborgian Church
 
Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
 
Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America
 
United Church of Christ
 
The United Methodist Church

[Amishism]

WORLD COUNCIL of CHURCHES(all countries listed at link)
member churches
North America

African Methodist Episcopal Church [United States of American]
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church [United States of American]
American Baptist Churches in the USA
Anglican Church of Canada

Canadian Council of Churches**
Canadian Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Canada
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States of America
Christian Methodist Episcopal Church [United States of America]
Church of the Brethren [United States of America]

Episcopal Church in the USA
Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church Abroad [Canada]
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada

Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East [United States of America]
Hungarian Reformed Church in America

International Council of Community Churches [United States of America]
International Evangelical Church [United States of America]

Moravian Church in America

National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
National Baptist Convention USA, Inc.
National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA**

Orthodox Church in America

Polish National Catholic Church [United States of America]
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Presbyterian Church in Canada
Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc. [United States of America]

Reformed Church in America
Religious Society of Friends – Friends General Conference [United States of America]
Religious Society of Friends – Friends United Meeting [United States of America]

United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ [United States of America]
United Methodist Church [United States of America]

[Amishism]

Pope Benedict XVI and WCC general secretary Samuel Kobia to pray for Christian unity in Rome
Jan.21 2008

Pope Benedict XVI and Rev. Dr Samuel Kobia, the general secretary of the World Council of Churches (WCC), along with high-level representatives of the Roman Catholic Church and the WCC, will meet in Rome on Friday, 25 January 2008, at the centennial of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

[White Rose Sophie]

Pope Benedict XVI and WCC general secretary Samuel Kobia to pray for Christian unity in Rome
Jan.21 2008

Pope Benedict XVI and Rev. Dr Samuel Kobia, the general secretary of the World Council of Churches (WCC), along with high-level representatives of the Roman Catholic Church and the WCC, will meet in Rome on Friday, 25 January 2008, at the centennial of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

Can two walk together and not be in agreement?

I think I'm gonna puke.

Fools.  Don't they know that when Judgement comes - it begins at the "House of God"?

[cold fusion]

The WCC and RCC have always been comrades in arms. Why is anyone surprised?

I just noticed the inclusion of several "Baptist Conventions" and associations in the membership list of WCC. I have known about this for years, and cannot fathom why any Baptist would want to be part of such a thing. For the record, I am an Independent Baptist, which, IMHO, is the only kind of "real" Baptist there is. In accordance with Biblical N.T. doctrine, we have no conventions or associations, nor any hierarchies, (which were not authorized by Christ). Our Pastor is the shepherd of the flock. We have deacons and elders who take care of things that need doing in the everyday affairs of the church, but we are NOT a board-run church. We are in accord with Christ, who said (in Rev. 2) he "hates the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes".
The Baptist Churches declared non-fellowship with the irregular churches in 251 A.D.  Errors in church government in the irregular churches led eventually to the formation of the State Church under Constantine.

As grneyelady said, "Fools.  Don't they know that when Judgement comes - it begins at the "House of God"?"

[Amishism]

obelisk
Pronounced As: oblisk , slender four-sided tapering monument, usually hewn of a single great piece of stone, terminating in a pointed or pyramidal top. Among the ancient Egyptians these monoliths were commonly of red granite from Syene and were dedicated to the sun god.

[Amishism]

United Religions Initiative
Religions & Traditions

Bahai Faith

Buddhism

Christianity

First Peoples

Hinduism

Islam

Jainism

Judaism

Shintoism

Sikhism

Taoism

Unitarian Universalism

Wicca

Zoroastrianism


MEETING OF RELIGIONS OPENS AT VATICAN
230 Religious Leaders Study How to Construct Better World

VATICAN CITY, OCT 25 (ZENIT).- The Assembly of religions, which John Paul II convoked in preparation for the Great Jubilee of the Year 2000, began yesterday at the Vatican.

There are 230 participants, representing the principal religions of the world. Of the total, 72 are Catholics involved in the inter-religious dialogue; 27 Christians of other denominations; 42 leaders of Islam; 23 of
Buddhism; 8 of Hinduism; and 9 of Judaism, among others. Those attending come from 50 countries and there is a total of some 20 religions represented.

The opening address was given by Malaysian journalist Theresa Ee-Chooi, current president of the International Union of Catholic Journalists. She referred to the economic inequalities between the rich countries and the poor, the negative effects of post-colonialism, and the consequences of globalization, which have transformed the world into a global village. She went on to address the condition of modern men and women, caught in the nets of materialism and consumerism, who made the present an absolute and seek momentary happiness in immediate gratification, here and now, only to feel deceived and disappointed later. She denounced the influence of moral relativism at the end of the century. In face of this situation, Ee-Chooi posed the critical question of this inter-religious assembly: "What role can the leaders of the major religions have to make the world of the future the one we would like to leave to our children and grandchildren?"



8.32 min trailer

[lord edward coke]

Do you trust Pat?




Rock

course not he lost all cred.when he ran for pres.    nwo schill freemason agent

[lord edward coke]

Under the 1nd. amendment of the Constitution, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press....." The GOVERNMENT has NO RIGHT to put a L.D.S. Member in prison for what is a "FREE EXERCISE of the RELIGIOUS BELIEFS" of the L.D.S. Church.
Makes NO DIFFERENCE, in the TRUE POINT of LAW, under the CONSTITUTION as WRITTEN, if the practice is repugnant to the majority of peoples, the CONSTITUTION was DESIGNED to give the INDIVIDUAL the ALLODIAL FREEDOMS, (the STANDING of ROYALITY; the RIGHTS of KINGS & SOVRIGNS)  The HATE MONGERS, the MYSTERY RELIGION CANAL, the ARCHETECHS of the GLOBAL PRISON STATE are DEFAMING the BLOOD OF JESUS & THE only SOURCE of SECURITY left, for we battle NOT against FLESH, but against principalities, against powers, against spiritual wickedness in the Heavenlies.

To address DIRTY "CHURCHES" I see NOTHING about the International CHURCH of CHRIST...or ALL "CHURCH OF CHRIST, INC" demoninations....Church of Christ WAS is STILL is a C.I.A. CREATED, BACKED & CONTROLLED tool of INFILTRATION into the MISSION FIELDS..to plant JESUIT SPIES in FOREGIN NATIONS, the C.I.A. is TOTALLY controlled by JESUITS, BUSH SGNR is JESUIT SHILL, Geo. W. Bush JESUIT controlled...SKULL & BONES a JESUIT secret order.

THE ENTIRE MEDIA is ANTI-CHRIST, ANTI "BLOOD OF JESUS" Anti- CRUCIFIED, RESSURECTED SAVIOUR, ANTI-JEW, ANTI-FREEDOM! 

well written -the gov goes out of its way to crap on the constitution[breaking the nations highest law] any way they can.they purposely leave no article untouched.going by there maxium of "in plain sight"that way you are "without excuse"

[Sub-X]

Archdiocese will co-operate with inquiry.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0201/church.html
Friday, 1 February 2008

Bishop of Dublin Dr Eamonn Walsh has said the Archdiocese will co-operate fully with the Commission of Inquiry into clerical child sexual abuse.

Dr Walsh was commenting after it emerged that lawyers for former Archbishop of Dublin, Cardinal Desmond Connell, had sought in the High Court to stop the Archdiocese handing over certain legal documents to the commission.

Dr Eamon Walsh said that wherever lawyers are involved, you will always be entering into a legal minefield.

AdvertisementHe said he was surprised at suggestions, and what he called spin, that there was a conflict between Diarmuid Martin and Cardinal Connell over the matter. Adding that there is a very warm, friendly and cordial relationship between the two men.

This matter is about legal issues, not personalities according to the Catholic Bishop of Dublin.

He said his first thought when he heard the news last night was for the people who were abused by clergy in the past.

He said the truth must be established so that victims can sense that they were heard and believed.

He said the inquiry must bring victims another step along the road of getting as peaceful a life as possible.

Legal dispute

Some 5,000 documents are at the centre of the legal dispute between Cardinal Desmond Connell and a judicial inquiry into the handling of complaints that Catholic clergy abused children.

Yesterday, Cardinal Connell initiated High Court proceedings to try to prevent documents handed over by his successor, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, being examined by the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation.

Archbishop Martin has said he is willing to give up the exemption from legal inspection that the documents enjoy. But the Cardinal is asserting his claims that they are privileged or protected by solicitor-client confidentiality.

It is understood the documents relate to legal advice following claims of child sexual abuse, as well as insurance policies in relation to such claims.

Yesterday in the High Court Cardinal Connell's solicitor revealed that his anxious client had challenged Archbishop Martin's 'tell all' approach to the Commission of Inquiry into their diocese.

The court heard that, through their lawyers, the Cardinal had told the Archbishop of his displeasure when it was noticed that the commission had a document that Dr Connell considered exempt from inspection.

The document came to light last October while the Cardinal was giving evidence to Judge Yvonne Murphy's Commission.

Now it has emerged that Archbishop Martin has told Judge Murphy that he is willing to waive the privilege attaching to about 5,000, or one in 12, of the documents the commission ordered him to hand over.

A major plank in the Cardinal's case is that he is the person entitled to assert and maintain legal privilege over many of the documents because it was he who received the advice.



Good old Catholic Church doing everything within its power to ease the suffering caused by themselves on CHILDREN. Sick bastards,may they all burn in Hell.

[Amishism]

I have about fifty articles just like it, just not this current. More proof the abuse is ongoing.

[Sub-X]

I have about fifty articles just like it, just not this current. More proof the abuse is ongoing.

Yep and theyll continue to cover it up,and play it off as just a few bad apples. 

Amishism i don't know if your aware of this but Magdalene Laundries is another case of abuse they tryed to cover up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalen_Asylum

[Sub-X]

Call to seize secret church abuse files.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2251598,00.html
Sunday February 3, 2008

An Irish judge has been urged to seize confidential church files on child abuse which have led to a dispute between two of Ireland's leading Catholic clerics.
Victims of clerical sexual and physical abuse from Ireland's notorious industrial schools last night urged Mr Justice Ryan to demand access to 5,000 documents relating to sexual abuse by priests and, crucially, members of the religious orders.

The judge, who heads up the Ryan Commission, is close to publishing a report that has taken nine years to complete and that investigates child abuse at the industrial schools and orphanages run by religious orders.

Former inmates of the Christian Brothers-run institutions urged the judge to enter the legal row between Cardinal Desmond Connell and his successor as Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin.
Archbishop Martin wants to give the files to a separate state inquiry into 147 priests who were abusing children in the Dublin diocese. But Cardinal Connell won a temporary injunction in the Dublin High Court last week to prevent the files being made public, insisting that they were privileged and protected by solicitor-client confidentiality. The case resumes tomorrow in the High Court.

The Irish Survivors of Child Abuse (Irish Soca) organisation said the Ryan Commission would now have to postpone its final report until it had examined the files. It is believed they include information about abuse at Artane, in north Dublin, over a 40-year period. These documents were never disclosed to the Ryan Commission, Irish Soca said.

In a letter this weekend to the judge heading up the inquiry that Taoiseach Bertie Ahern set up nine years ago, Irish Soca's Patrick Walsh, a former resident at Artane, said: 'Given that Cardinal Connell considers all these documents legally privileged and that these matters are now before the High Court, it seems to us that the Ryan Commission should seek to enjoin in next Monday's adjourned proceedings to reserve its position as a legally interested party in whatever documents are currently in dispute.

'There is of course legal provision within the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act (2000) allowing you to intervene in these circumstances. We now call upon you to act decisively and enjoin the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse to the proceedings in the High Court.'

No one from the Ryan Commission was available this weekend to comment, but it has the right to access all documents relating to clerical child abuse at institutions run by Catholic religious orders in the state.

Walsh said yesterday that the Ryan Commission was under legal obligation to the victims to view the files. He also praised what he described as 'the new policy of church Glasnost being pursued by Archbishop Martin'.

A Vatican spokesman said Connell was in a Rome hospital and therefore not available for comment. His second-in-command in Dublin, Auxiliary Bishop Dr Eamonn Walsh, has insisted there is no conflict between Connell and the Archbishop.

[Sub-X]

Cardinal ready to go to jail to protect files.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0207/church.html
Thursday, 7 February 2008

The Irish Catholic newspaper has reported that Cardinal Desmond Connell signalled 16 months ago he was prepared to go to prison rather than allow privileged diocesan files to be released.

It quotes sources close to the Cardinal as saying he feels a direct and personal responsibility to those who got assurances of strictest confidentiality from him.

It says several victims of clerical abuse received them, along with accused priests who have not been convicted.

According to The Irish Catholic, Cardinal Connell told unnamed friends in Rome he would risk prosecution rather than breach the confidentiality of church files.

It says he made the comments in late 2006 when the Irish Bishops were reporting to the Pope.

Last week in the High Court, the Cardinal accused the Government-appointed Murphy Commission of unlawfully keeping him in the dark about agreements it reached with his successor, Archbishop Martin, to waive privilege on about 5,000 diocesan documents.

The paper reports that when the Cardinal complained to the commission that he was not being informed, as a relevant third party, of discussions between it and Archbishop Martin that led to the papers being handed over, the commission replied it had told the Archdiocese that relevant third parties could be informed.

Archbishop Martin's spokeswoman said he had informed Cardinal Connell of his intentions and motivations with regard to the legally privileged documents.

[White Rose Sophie]

Cardinal ready to go to jail to protect files.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0207/church.html
Thursday, 7 February 2008

The Irish Catholic newspaper has reported that Cardinal Desmond Connell signalled 16 months ago he was prepared to go to prison rather than allow privileged diocesan files to be released.

It quotes sources close to the Cardinal as saying he feels a direct and personal responsibility to those who got assurances of strictest confidentiality from him.

It warms the cockles of my heart that the Cardinal is SO protective of the reputations of those poor abused folk, that he doesn't want them embarrassed or shamed by the release of those files.

[Sub-X]

It warms the cockles of my heart that the Cardinal is SO protective of the reputations of those poor abused folk, that he doesn't want them embarrassed or shamed by the release of those files.

Yep,thats his sainthood booked for the future.The twisted irony here is he should have gone to prison for preventing the investigation in the first place.They crucify priests(pun not intended) that have affairs and break the outdated celibacy rule and they continue to cover up for paedophilia that is ripe in Irish Catholicism.

[White Rose Sophie]

Yep,thats his sainthood booked for the future.The twisted irony here is he should have gone to prison for preventing the investigation in the first place.They crucify priests(pun not intended) that have affairs and break the outdated celibacy rule and they continue to cover up for paedophilia that is ripe in Irish Catholicism.

That was one of the first clues as to the true nature of Roman Catholicism for me....the whole 'celibacy' thing.  Paul calls 'forbidding men to marry" a 'doctrine of demons'.  I wonder if they just take that whole verse out of their bibles.

[Sub-X]

Connell withdraws bid to stop files examined.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0211/church.html
Monday, 11 February 2008

Counsel for Cardinal Desmond Connell has withdrawn his bid to stop the Government-appointed commission examining diocesan child abuse files.

The move comes 11 days after Cardinal Connell got an injunction against the commission preventing it from examining files while he prepared his case to show that he had legal privilege over them or a duty of confidentiality in relation to them.

When the case was called for mention this morning, Roddy Horan SC said he was appearing for Cardinal Connell. 'I am withdrawing that application,' he told Judge Iarfhlaith O'Neill.

Brian Murray SC, counsel for Judge Yvonne Murray and the two other commission members, applied for costs.

At Mr Murray's request Judge O'Neill discharged the undertaking by the commission not to examine the controversial files while the case was pending.

At the court hearing on 31 January, Cardinal Connell's solicitor, Diarmuid Ó Catháin, said in an affidavit that any file recording communications between Cardinal Connell, while he was archbishop, and lawyers acting for the diocese, could not be opened to the Commission of Inquiry.

The commission is scheduled to report by next September.

An organisation representing survivors of sexual abuse has welcomed the move.

The One in Four group said it was imperative for the sake of victims that he did so.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's News at One, Marie Collins, a victim of clerical abuse, said Cardinal Connell's move came as a great relief.  She said it was good for the Church, the victims and the laity, because the commission could now do its work unhindered. 

[Amishism]

Priest downloaded gay porn images
Rector's book on clergy, sex is best seller - among priests
Religion, homosexuality can coexist 
Catholic church reaches out to gays
Priests with AIDS   
Catholic church worried about link between priests, AIDS
Cliques of gay priests are dividing the Church
Priests with AIDS - Crisis within Catholic church 
AIDS in the priesthood   
Bishop admits sex with priest
Homosexual Valentines day on Catholic campus
Bishop suspends priest who declared self a practicing homosexual
Priest in Spain announces his homosexuality
Spain’s first openly gay priest said...
'Gay' culture in Catholic Church grows   
Gay test for aspiring priests
Confab pushes homosexuality in Church
Gay Catholics celebrate mass together
Sydney´s archbishop pell on communion for open homosexuals
Gays and the Seminary   
Homosexuals better priests, Jesuit says   
Bishops Avoided 'Real' Issues of Celibacy and Homosexuality, Activists Say
Spanish priest steps down after former gay lover distributes graphic video 
While in California on sick leave, Boston priest bought racy gay resort
Gay association to ask Pope for homosexual patron saint
Homosexuals taking over catholic priesthood
History's Gayest Pope   
Homosexuality is divinely ordered, say catechism   
www.remnantofgod.org/rccsex.htm

There was a bust at an Austrian seminary a while back, and another in St.Louis. So sad.

The Pink Swastika
www.abidingtruth.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/index.php

[lord edward coke]

Be Ye Separate

 

"I can't stand going to work anymore." These were the exasperated words of a friend of mine. "I know what the Lord is calling me to do," she said, "but every moment of my working day is committed to my employer."

My friend is reaching the end of her rope. Every day she faces difficult customers, including local police. Her working day is spent serving the world, leaving her drained and tired. Her heart yearns to work for the Kingdom of Heaven, but a vicious cycle of expenses and debt drive her further and further into slavery.

I thought about her situation and said, "All I know is that I would rather be poor with heavenly riches than work for the devil and live in comfort. If we are content with a humble lifestyle, then having enough is a feast." I suggested that my friend get out of debt and then quit her job.

She agreed, but was not yet satisfied. "But where do I begin?" she asked.

Three Levels of Separation

What do you do when you realize the whole world lies in wickedness? (1 John 5:19) How do you go about separating?

To separate doesn't necessarily mean to keep apart physically. According to Webster's 1828 dictionary, the word separate means to disunite, to divide, to sever. To separate implies leaving something you were once a part of. As followers of Christ, we are called to separate from everything which is not approved by our Heavenly Father. He wants us pure and unspotted from the world (James 1:27).

Separation is done at three levels. It is similar to refining gold. During the first stage, big hunks of impurities are separated out. Then in the next stages, more imperfections are removed until you have a finely polished bar of gold. That's just what the Father wants with us. And it takes several swipes until we are finally unspotted from the world.



The first stage of separation is simply separation from outward sin. The next level is separation from the thoughts of sin. The third stage is separation from organizations that promote sin.

Jesus starts off His ministry by commanding separation. "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent! for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 4:17). In other words, change your direction. Stop pleasing self and start pleasing God. Apostle Paul says it this way, "Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart" (2 Timothy 2:22).

This first level of separation, from sin itself, is even taught by the churches that are in harlotry with the State. Most people, if they try, can comply, at least outwardly.

Most people never get beyond this personal level of cleaning the outside of the cup. But Jesus goes even further. And this is where it starts getting to be a rough road.

Jesus also requires separating from even the thoughts of sin. On this second level, we purge even our desire to sin. We don't just stop doing it. We stop THINKING about it.

Years ago a Godly preacher tried to teach me this higher level of repentance. He caught me pulling a prank. I was about 14 and attending a Church camp. I hated being awakened early in the morning by the sound of the bell, so I found a ladder and removed the rope from the bell so it could not ring. Then the camp started using car horns to wake us. But I disconnected the horns.

Finally, I got caught in the very act by this preacher. As he walked me back to my cabin, I told him how sorry I was. The preacher paused and looked me straight in the eyes, "Paul, are you sorry because you got caught, or are you sorry because it was wrong?"

He knew that if I was sorry merely because I got nabbed, I would be pulling another prank at my first opportunity. But if I was sorry because I knew it was wrong, I would change my ways. This is Godly sorrow.

Jesus said, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). "Be born again." That's a little different from merely repenting. We cannot be merely born of the flesh. We must also be born of the Spirit. Through this new birth of the spirit, we enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, into God's government. It means putting away the old man with all his lusts and desires and becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus. This is a rough one, but it doesn't stop there.

The next level of separation is not just separating from sin, but separating from organizations that promote sin. Have no connection with them. This includes nations where men are lording over other men and making laws in defiance of God's Word.

Look at what Apostle Paul says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12). Here we see that we are going to be separating from whole nations because they are not of Christ. And if we do that, we have a warning: "He that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey" (Isaiah 59:15).

Anyone who attempts to separate from the nations, will become a prey for the world to attack. Jesus says, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:19).

That's a difficult one. We are called to be a holy nation, a people set apart from the nations of the world (1 Peter 2:9). Most people know when they hear the command to "come out" that they must disconnect from all the flag-waving nations of the world because they have all rejected Christ. But where do they go? How do they separate when every place they work and everywhere they go, they are surrounded by people who belong to the devil?

Leaving Worldly Employment

The nations have divided up the whole world into territories. They want to control all our activities. That is our number one problem. But all is not futile. There are some things we can do to separate before that hour when God throws the unrighteous in the lake of fire. First, we can quit working in their offices. That means don't take jobs offered by the world system. We are commanded to work, but we are commanded to work for God. Everything we do in word and deed, we do in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 3:17).

If the job requires a social security number, you know they want to entangle you in their wicked system. They want to make sure you belong to them. They don't want Christ's people working in their ranks.

When you start looking at the jobs available, it looks almost hopeless. You can't be employed by the cities or states or the federal government and be separate. You can't even work for a corporation because they get their life from the Antichrist beast system.

There are many jobs you cannot fill. You have to come out. You cannot be participating with them. The reason is that you must agree to work under their terms. You belong to Christ. How can Christ make an agreement with Belial? You can't do it. How can you tie the two together? You cannot. Christ will not share the throne with those who are in rebellion to Him (Psalm 94:20). How can two walk together unless they be agreed? (Amos 3:3).

The most popular passage in the Scripture on separation says, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing: and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty" (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).

This passage means you cannot be employed by the world system. You can offer your services, but don't bind yourself to them. If you are employed by them, complete your obligations and then quit. Come out. Work in faith.

Get Out of Debt

Another area to separate from is the banking/credit system. Making agreements with the banks causes indebtedness. You are beholden to the bank when you take out a loan. "The borrower is servant to the lender" (Proverbs 22:7). You think you are obtaining financial assistance. In reality, you are the one actually being purchased. The bank gains a financial interest in you. Because of your agreements, you are forced to work to pay off your debt to them.

In the Kingdom of Heaven, everything you do is in cash. When you receive funds, you transfer them from the world system into the Lord's treasury. You owe no one anything but the continuing debt to love one another (Romans 13:.

Leaving State Employment

I remember many years ago when I received the call to come out from my State job with the Department of Transportation. My wife, Rachel, said, "No problem. I've got a really great State job and I'll support us both."

I was going to rely on my wife. That shows how much faith I had! I didn't have any faith. Shortly after I quit, my wife lost her job. It was a done deal. I had no job. Rachel had no job. The business we had started hadn't brought in even a dime. Then the Lord blessed us with our first child, Brooke. It took us six months before we saw any funds come in. We subsisted mainly on brown rice, beans and some fruit we had canned. I think we were PUSHED into leaving the State. It was God's idea in order to get us out of the system.

Working in the Kingdom of Heaven

There are so many who are hesitant to quit their corporate employment. For us, it has been 20 years since we took that step and started walking in faith. The Lord has escorted us through some major attacks. And the Lord continues to look after us. He is ever faithful.

We belong to God. We do not belong to those who have rejected God. That does not mean we cannot talk and associate with these people. Not at all! But we don't make agreements with them. Instead, we work in the Kingdom of Heaven laboring at the work God shows us to do.

In the beginning, it may look hopeless. Before you can leave the system, you will need to pay off all your debts and simplify your life. Then you can quit being an employee. As you diligently work by faith, you will see job opportunities opening up. God has given you gifts that can be used to advance the Kingdom of Heaven. You will discover them as you seek first His Kingdom. Go after the Kingdom first, then all the other things you need will be provided.

 

Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2

http://secular.embassyofheaven.com/usa/beseparate.htm

[White Rose Sophie]

In the beginning, it may look hopeless. Before you can leave the system, you will need to pay off all your debts and simplify your life. Then you can quit being an employee. As you diligently work by faith, you will see job opportunities opening up. God has given you gifts that can be used to advance the Kingdom of Heaven. You will discover them as you seek first His Kingdom. Go after the Kingdom first, then all the other things you need will be provided.

Good post.

 

[cold fusion]

The two words "sanctification" and "separation" are pretty much interchangeable. The Bible's use of the idea can be defined most simply as a three-stage process.

1. When the believer is saved as a result of exercising faith in the Gospel (by believing it) he is delivered from the power and penalty of sin.

2. As he dedicates himself to prayer, Bible study, and serving God, he is delivered from the practice of sin.

3. From the moment he is saved, he is predestinated to be conformed to the image of God's Son, and ultimately delivered from the very presence of sin.


Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. We're not all called to full-time ministry, but we can all be full-time Christians and live our lives in a way that brings glory rather than a reproach to Christ.

You will find all three aspects of sanctification outlined in the 18 verses of  1 Thessalonians 4, in 3 sets of 6 verses each.

The middle 6 verses outline the progressive sanctification of the believer through dedication to God's service, and effort. It is followed immediately by a description of our destiny to be delivered from the presence of sin.

As  the green-eyed one and lec have indicated, there are opportunities to earn a living without being tainted by the world... expressed beautifully here:

1 Thess. 4:

7    For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

8       He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

9    But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

10   And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;

11   And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12   That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

[lord edward coke]

Thank you for the replies from  some of my two favorite posters :   grneyelady & cold fusion 

"As Jesus and his disciples were on their way he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all of the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself. Tell her to help me." "Martha, Martha" the Lord answered, "You are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better and it will not be taken away from her."

[Godsent]

Be Ye Separate

 

"I can't stand going to work anymore." These were the exasperated words of a friend of mine. "I know what the Lord is calling me to do," she said, "but every moment of my working day is committed to my employer."

My friend is reaching the end of her rope. Every day she faces difficult customers, including local police. Her working day is spent serving the world, leaving her drained and tired. Her heart yearns to work for the Kingdom of Heaven, but a vicious cycle of expenses and debt drive her further and further into slavery.

I thought about her situation and said, "All I know is that I would rather be poor with heavenly riches than work for the devil and live in comfort. If we are content with a humble lifestyle, then having enough is a feast." I suggested that my friend get out of debt and then quit her job.

She agreed, but was not yet satisfied. "But where do I begin?" she asked.

Three Levels of Separation

What do you do when you realize the whole world lies in wickedness? (1 John 5:19) How do you go about separating?

To separate doesn't necessarily mean to keep apart physically. According to Webster's 1828 dictionary, the word separate means to disunite, to divide, to sever. To separate implies leaving something you were once a part of. As followers of Christ, we are called to separate from everything which is not approved by our Heavenly Father. He wants us pure and unspotted from the world (James 1:27).

Separation is done at three levels. It is similar to refining gold. During the first stage, big hunks of impurities are separated out. Then in the next stages, more imperfections are removed until you have a finely polished bar of gold. That's just what the Father wants with us. And it takes several swipes until we are finally unspotted from the world.



The first stage of separation is simply separation from outward sin. The next level is separation from the thoughts of sin. The third stage is separation from organizations that promote sin.

Jesus starts off His ministry by commanding separation. "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent! for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 4:17). In other words, change your direction. Stop pleasing self and start pleasing God. Apostle Paul says it this way, "Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart" (2 Timothy 2:22).

This first level of separation, from sin itself, is even taught by the churches that are in harlotry with the State. Most people, if they try, can comply, at least outwardly.

Most people never get beyond this personal level of cleaning the outside of the cup. But Jesus goes even further. And this is where it starts getting to be a rough road.

Jesus also requires separating from even the thoughts of sin. On this second level, we purge even our desire to sin. We don't just stop doing it. We stop THINKING about it.

Years ago a Godly preacher tried to teach me this higher level of repentance. He caught me pulling a prank. I was about 14 and attending a Church camp. I hated being awakened early in the morning by the sound of the bell, so I found a ladder and removed the rope from the bell so it could not ring. Then the camp started using car horns to wake us. But I disconnected the horns.

Finally, I got caught in the very act by this preacher. As he walked me back to my cabin, I told him how sorry I was. The preacher paused and looked me straight in the eyes, "Paul, are you sorry because you got caught, or are you sorry because it was wrong?"

He knew that if I was sorry merely because I got nabbed, I would be pulling another prank at my first opportunity. But if I was sorry because I knew it was wrong, I would change my ways. This is Godly sorrow.

Jesus said, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). "Be born again." That's a little different from merely repenting. We cannot be merely born of the flesh. We must also be born of the Spirit. Through this new birth of the spirit, we enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, into God's government. It means putting away the old man with all his lusts and desires and becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus. This is a rough one, but it doesn't stop there.

The next level of separation is not just separating from sin, but separating from organizations that promote sin. Have no connection with them. This includes nations where men are lording over other men and making laws in defiance of God's Word.

Look at what Apostle Paul says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12). Here we see that we are going to be separating from whole nations because they are not of Christ. And if we do that, we have a warning: "He that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey" (Isaiah 59:15).

Anyone who attempts to separate from the nations, will become a prey for the world to attack. Jesus says, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:19).

That's a difficult one. We are called to be a holy nation, a people set apart from the nations of the world (1 Peter 2:9). Most people know when they hear the command to "come out" that they must disconnect from all the flag-waving nations of the world because they have all rejected Christ. But where do they go? How do they separate when every place they work and everywhere they go, they are surrounded by people who belong to the devil?

Leaving Worldly Employment

The nations have divided up the whole world into territories. They want to control all our activities. That is our number one problem. But all is not futile. There are some things we can do to separate before that hour when God throws the unrighteous in the lake of fire. First, we can quit working in their offices. That means don't take jobs offered by the world system. We are commanded to work, but we are commanded to work for God. Everything we do in word and deed, we do in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 3:17).

If the job requires a social security number, you know they want to entangle you in their wicked system. They want to make sure you belong to them. They don't want Christ's people working in their ranks.

When you start looking at the jobs available, it looks almost hopeless. You can't be employed by the cities or states or the federal government and be separate. You can't even work for a corporation because they get their life from the Antichrist beast system.

There are many jobs you cannot fill. You have to come out. You cannot be participating with them. The reason is that you must agree to work under their terms. You belong to Christ. How can Christ make an agreement with Belial? You can't do it. How can you tie the two together? You cannot. Christ will not share the throne with those who are in rebellion to Him (Psalm 94:20). How can two walk together unless they be agreed? (Amos 3:3).

The most popular passage in the Scripture on separation says, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing: and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty" (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).

This passage means you cannot be employed by the world system. You can offer your services, but don't bind yourself to them. If you are employed by them, complete your obligations and then quit. Come out. Work in faith.

Get Out of Debt

Another area to separate from is the banking/credit system. Making agreements with the banks causes indebtedness. You are beholden to the bank when you take out a loan. "The borrower is servant to the lender" (Proverbs 22:7). You think you are obtaining financial assistance. In reality, you are the one actually being purchased. The bank gains a financial interest in you. Because of your agreements, you are forced to work to pay off your debt to them.

In the Kingdom of Heaven, everything you do is in cash. When you receive funds, you transfer them from the world system into the Lord's treasury. You owe no one anything but the continuing debt to love one another (Romans 13:.

Leaving State Employment

I remember many years ago when I received the call to come out from my State job with the Department of Transportation. My wife, Rachel, said, "No problem. I've got a really great State job and I'll support us both."

I was going to rely on my wife. That shows how much faith I had! I didn't have any faith. Shortly after I quit, my wife lost her job. It was a done deal. I had no job. Rachel had no job. The business we had started hadn't brought in even a dime. Then the Lord blessed us with our first child, Brooke. It took us six months before we saw any funds come in. We subsisted mainly on brown rice, beans and some fruit we had canned. I think we were PUSHED into leaving the State. It was God's idea in order to get us out of the system.

Working in the Kingdom of Heaven

There are so many who are hesitant to quit their corporate employment. For us, it has been 20 years since we took that step and started walking in faith. The Lord has escorted us through some major attacks. And the Lord continues to look after us. He is ever faithful.

We belong to God. We do not belong to those who have rejected God. That does not mean we cannot talk and associate with these people. Not at all! But we don't make agreements with them. Instead, we work in the Kingdom of Heaven laboring at the work God shows us to do.

In the beginning, it may look hopeless. Before you can leave the system, you will need to pay off all your debts and simplify your life. Then you can quit being an employee. As you diligently work by faith, you will see job opportunities opening up. God has given you gifts that can be used to advance the Kingdom of Heaven. You will discover them as you seek first His Kingdom. Go after the Kingdom first, then all the other things you need will be provided.

 

Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2

http://secular.embassyofheaven.com/usa/beseparate.htm

That sounds good and all, But the fact is the tent city's are full of people that have done what you have recommended, They end up being at the mercy of others. Some of them end up moving back in with there parents.

[lord edward coke]

^^^^^^^^^^Some of em end up self-reliant like the Mennonites  and the Amish.    ^^^^^^^^^^