Chinese Esoterical New Age Thinking/China a crumbling Nation

[Elijah returns]

As most of you know I live here in China, but not for much longer.

What really bugs me is their way of thinking, and it can only be described as Esoteric in nature. New Age type thinking.

The education system is Shite (Shit for those of you who don't understand Scottish), there is no creativity whatsoever, they all copy, degrees can be bought, and its a nation built up upon lies, and nobody thinks twice about corruption and lies, its part of the social fabric that runs from top to bottom, and where money talks and buys absoloutley anything whatsoever.

Gambling, computer games, Baijou, Pijou, Smokes, education, chat rooms, toys....you name it they have it, and anything to keep the populace distracted from whats really going on.

The students don't care, they don't work, they are forever on their mobile telephones, playing computer games etc.

There have been whispers of students committing suicide, but nothing concrete. Its all kept quiet.

I gave a talk on the crash of the economy, the ownership of the Bank of China by the Bank of Scotland and H1N1......the leaders didn't like it at all....wonder why?

Its a country where face means everything, and if the teachers fail the students, then its not the students fault but the stupid f**king teachers faults, after all hes the one with the degree.

Everyday I shop, and always receive new notes, which can only be a sign for more money being pumped into the economy to keep it afloat.

But, life here, is worse than life in the west, because they have real suppression here....you can be put to death if you openly speak on such matters as religion or corruption in government. And the masses are given every sort and kind of pleasure to entertain the desires so as to keep their mind off whats really going on.

I had breakfast with a teacher from south Africa today, and he brought this very subject up.

But, I think deep down the students know now there is no future for them, as they know they cant get jobs. And its only the top 2% of the country that can get educated anyhow, and even then its not an education, but a diversion, and I am yet to meet a student with a creative spirit....might take me a while to do it, and think I am giving up hope now of finding someone.

This is just a little bit about life in china. But, its their esoteric way of thinking that really bugs me out, and sometimes its very difficult to get mastery over it....its just irritating as hell, and its like they receive all the same programming from north to south and east to west...........can you imagine a world of automatons? because thats where its going, and a life with no individuality or creation is certainly no life for me. And as the Germans would say, "Ohne mich".

[jeremystalked1]

They kill people who rock the boat in the US and other western democracies too, but they have to pretend that sort of thing doesn't happen here, so it's disguised as something else.  They use psychological warfare, mobbing, and covertly tamper with the target's life.  It's what was used in East Germany, but it's more refined now. 

The US allowed Russia to capture East Germany.  I see that dictatorship as a trial run for what's happening in the US and NATO nations now.

There's a system for protecting the rich and powerful in every country, it's overt in China, but it's there in the NATO nations too.  If some rich a**hole feels threatened by you, he makes a phone call, the secret police get to work figuring out what your weaknesses are, and the brainwashed masses are deceived into participating in your destruction.  And the guys running the system make money off it.

[Cryptvill]

2 good posts.

I would not want to live in China. From the way you put it, it's like America x 2. Even more stupid useless fluff being pumped into peoples minds.

[amazon]

I find both of your posts very interesting, as I studied traditional Chinese culture,
ie, before the revolution.

I remember one prof
who had lived there for more than 5 years post Revolution
and who spoke fluent Cantonese
report on how communism was failing.

He stated that farmers were more productive
when given their own patch of land to farm.
The communal farms were not working.

Now this was a while ago.

How does it stand now?
Can you update me, please?

[Triadtropz]

Get a good look at China it is what the US is becoming.....

[Elijah returns]

Its a Nation built on lies, where relations and money mean everything. Eugenics is big here too, especially in field of elderly and handicapped. I have photos of a public execution...have you ever seen people gagged, bound, hooded and shot in the back of the head before?

The students have no life skills, no social skills, all they know is education, education, education, education, but not education of a kind that will advance them or help in any kind of way. They are really f**king ill mannered. They don't bring knives and guns to school with them, but they are subversive in more subtle ways. The classes have party members who are "monitors", really class snitches.

Contracts mean nothing, even the language is one based on ambiguity, and I wonder as a former Mental Health Nurse  the role NLP plays here? Contracts-sometimes we get paid, sometimes we don't, and if we get in a fix, the embassies don't care, contracts and visas are our problems.

China is a country that is fluid, what is legal today, is illegal tomorrow and vice versa, there is no consistency in life, this is made clear in "1984" where the news and views change everyday like the wind.

If we fail a student, and I have failed many, they or the school try to exert pressure to re-set the marks, like trying to give them cart Blanche to proceed on to other things they are not capable of achieving. Even in the UK the education is bad. The schools have lowered their bars too so all can achieve, its like its all standardized, but when they go to University they cant attain, because the level is so much higher. I gave one of my daughters one of my Higher level exams papers from the 80's, she couldn't do it, as it was "too difficult"....do you see what I mean? and as for life skills, even in the Uk they have no life skills, and people put the blame at feet of government and education when education of that kind should begin at home. No wonder we have the hubital crime we do have now, but as you know, its all engineered so the public will cry out for martial law, and soon it will be like china, it will be a white china, living in a or under a government where you cant ask questions.

The students never ask me questions or question what I do, and I could teach what I want and it wont be questioned.....so, a teacher can teach erroneous mathematical formular for years and his students will pas it on to their students because teacher is always right, authority can never be wrong. I tell the students they can tell me when I am wrong, but not to base it on feeling, or simple yes and no, but logical argument.........but, this is very hard to achieve in a very suppressed society. This is what is coming to the west but in a more harsh and cruel way. Prisons and hospitals will be emptied to make ready for a society based on perfection...even here in china kids are put into homes or are left to die if they are not male, or have some kind of defect. And in the coming world order, which wont last as long as some of you imagine, as God wont allow it, it will be like Logans Run or Solulent Green, when you reach your sell by date or outlive your usefulness then its goodnight Vienna.

For me, I have had enough here, most teachers are the same, there is no joy, and its getting worse here, and they are all like automatons, always smiling when there is nothing to smile about, a society built upon lies, one where there is only one of copy cat, no creativity, no imagination, no real individuality, just where everything is the same. Have you ever seen Europe? all the streets are the same, the train and bus stations are the same, same in china......even here its all one way traffic, entrance and exit, and all passengers are checked, scanned and x-rayed before entering the stations. Passenger entering and those leaving never meet, its all controlled.

I am making my exodus soon, going off the radar.

I will dump my passport, computer, all ID, telephone, bank cards, absolutely everything, and head for them there hills.....this will be soon, within a few weeks. I have survival equipment, even for extreme climates, so I am getting out of the system now. I want to be me, stay me, be a free person that I was born to be and to do my own thinking, and not to be formed after the thoughts, ways and philosophy's of any government, but to keep and cherish the values and principles I hold dearly.

This is life here in a few words, but it is a life of extremes, a life of no balance at all. When the dollar collapses soon, china will collapse too, for as dynamic as their economy might be, the banksters and gangsters have built it up only to rape it tear it down, and the Chinese don't think it will happen, "that could never happen, our leaders and government wont let it happen"......this is the type of thinking I am faced with everyday......but, it is going to happen, and very soon.....so, the god  who's colour is green, blue, sometimes red, when he goes down the toilet, where will they be then?

 

[Elijah returns]

Dear Amazon, theres no productivity "point blank", this is a British expression, in america you might say "zilcho"......in plain speaking, non existent.

[amazon]

Dear elijahreturns,

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

I hope all goes well for you,
that you stay safe,
and have more joy in your life.

For me,
the snowfall here in the UK makes me smile.
It is more than ironic that the snowfall began on the last day of the Copenhagen meeting.
I thought perhaps God was demonstrating Who can control the weather !

Until you go,
I would be happy to learn from you
and your experiences in China.

[Elijah returns]

As for snow Amazon, someone made a point about this yesterday in china. We had a week of snow in Beijing 5 weeks ago, since then, nothing. They even created blue skies for Chinese National Day so their army could march on down Tienanmen square........an army built up by western money and weapons.

In Qiiqhaer in Heilongjiang Province near Russia, they fire shells into the sky to create rainfall. I emailed Alan Watt about this in July.

They are playing god, interfering with things that have nothing at all to do with mankind at all.

The oligarchs may have had thought it out really well, but they will never win, they will receive a heavy judgement.

Evangelist Chuck Missler maintains "Just as in the days of Noah", he maintains that Nephillim type hybrid bastard clone creations will govern us during the reign of their last king to come, the 8th and last one that springs from the previous 7, the Antichrist, or new world order to others here on the board............and this ain't no fun time. It will be a white china.

Alex Jones and Co, they will see, witness and experience all they preached about coming into being, and as Alan Watt rightly said, many of us will die, not many, but millions. Before the Antichrist comes 1/4 of the worlds population will be wiped out by a war thats coming, this will be the false flag to get the Antichrist into power. The war? the bible only says between the kings of the north and south, and those present kings are Britain and America.....does this sound unbelievable to you? think on the things these oligarchs have already done then you will see that anything id likely....anything to bring this about.

There are churches in China, but are state controlled, that means they must peddle what the government tell them to preach, there are also bibles for sale, but you ain't allowed to read them. Its a highly controlled society, and everything revolves around lies and money, as well as relations, its all about who pulls who's chain....we call it corruption in the west.

I was a nurse in the prison service, and every second member (officer) was a mason, we even had the grandmaster himself in amidst us. They pissed me off, and I would make occassional jibes about being on the square, and coming from the east and being the son of a poor widow passing on the square on my way to the west.............they f**king hated it. But, I hate all that mode of business, the religion that goes with it too.

I have pictures of very poor orphans in lingfen, casted away because of defects, kids with cleft palets, this is what touches me deep down and inscences me deeply.

For the New World Order to function he needs religion to get him to that position, but this will be turned upon until religions role has been served, the bible says this, and Alan Watt in one of his mp3 states that these psychopaths use anyone they can to suit their ends, then once the purpose has been served, they are disposed of. They will use elements of Chinese society, the Hitler regime, stalin, mao, this last king will be the ultimate monster,your worst nightmare, worse than Alex Jones, Anthony Hilder have painted him to be, it is an image beyond our comprehension as it has never been seen before, and as the bible says, wont be seen again, it is also  reflecting the very mind of the one behind it all..Satan himself.

They have now made themselves gods, claiming to do what only God can do, and for this, and indeed the lives of the innocent ones that will be extinguished, this last king will be extinguished. As Isaiah says of him, "You killed your own people, destroyed your own land, for this reason you are going down into the stones of the pit without a burial place". In the pantheon of previous kings, unlike the previous ones, he receives no burial place of honor, but will be destroyed ultimately. But, the trick is, you have to endure until the very end so as to see it.

This king is coming within the Barak Obama administration.

Dr Paul MacDonald RN MA Dipl Germanistik

[Elijah returns]

Paul MacDonald
e-shuowangzheren
看守人

The arrival of the last two witnesses of Jehovah

So, before the time of the end begins, we will see the appearance of the last two witnesses of Jehovah that stand before him (Revelation 10:8-11 11:3-7 Matthew 24:14 Acts 1:8 Zechariah 4:14). This occurs during the time of opening of the first of 6 seals when Christ goes forward to wage war amidst his enemies. These men will appear and preach the good news of Gods kingdom and will do so until their mission on earth has been completed. These men will be like Elijah and Moses, even having their powers so as to prove their divine mission and authority, closing heavens to rain, turning rivers to blood...and much more. This mission will last for 3.5 years or 42 months. The Beast will hate these 2 men and even kill them, the Beast, the Nations will rejoice over it, and they will cast their bodies on the broad-ways for all to see, maybe even as a threat to those that dare defy the might of the wild beast (Revelation 11:3, 7-10 Revelation 13:4b). But these two men will rise again after 3.5 days, or years if it is taken literally about day for a year rule as given by Jehovah to Ezekiel. And at that time, when they appear again, all will be in fear of these two, and will fall faint out of fear for what is about to come upon mankind, for these two, will be taken up in a cloud to the bosom position of Jehovah to watch the fate fall upon their enemies. The 7th Trumpet sounds and the Kingdom becomes Jehovah’s and his Christ’s. This will be a one off, once seen event that will be seen only this time, and never seen again. The Wild Beasts reign will be one filled with abject terror. (Rev 11:11 Ezekiel 37:3, 10 Rev 11:2 13:5 Daniel 7:21, 24-26, 12:11a Luke 21:20-*24* Matt 24:15 Mark 133:14 Revelation 12:12 Daniel 12:1)).

的到来,最后两个证人耶和华

因此,在末开始,我们将看到出现最后两个证人,耶和华站在他(启示录10:8-11 11:3-7马太福音24:14行为1:8撒迦利亚4:14)。 发生在开幕的第一次6密封在基督还向战争在他的敌人。 这些男子将和鼓吹的好消息,神王国和会这样做,直到其使命已经完成。 这些男子将会以利亚和摩西,甚至在他们的权力,以证明其神圣使命和权威,关闭天雨,使河流血......。 这次访问将为3.5年或42个月。 兽仇恨将这些2名男子,甚至杀死他们,兽,国家将感到高兴,并将主演其机构广泛方式都可以看到,甚至威胁到那些敢违抗的野兽(启示录11:3、7-10 13启示:4B)。 但这两名男子将再次上升3.5天之后,或年如果是从字面上理解,一天的第一年,由耶和华,以西结书。 和在这段时间,他们再次出现,将所有的恐惧,这两个,并将下降微弱的恐惧,即将在人类,这两个,将会在一片云彩胸前的立场,耶和华的命运看落在他们的敌人。 第7次喇叭声和王国成为耶和华和他的基督。 这将是一个,一旦看到事件,将是这一次,从未见过。 《野兽统治将是一个充满极端恐怖。 (启11:11以西结书37:3、10启11:2 13:5Daniel7:21、24-26 12:11A路21:20-*24*太24:15标志133:14启示录12:12丹尼尔12:1))。

L'arrivée des deux derniers témoins de Jehova

Donc, avant l'époque de la fin commence, nous allons voir l'apparence des deux derniers témoins de l'Éternel que tenir devant lui (Apocalypse 10:8-11 11:3-7 Matthieu 24:14 Actes 1:8 Zacharie 4:14). Cette survient pendant le temps d'ouverture de la première de 6 phoques quand Christ va transmettre à la guerre parmi ses ennemis. Ces hommes apparaîtra et prêcher la bonne nouvelle de dieux royaume et il le fera jusqu'à leur mission sur la terre a été achevée. Ces hommes seront comme Élie et Moïse, même d'avoir leurs pouvoirs afin de prouver leur mission divine et l'autorité, la fermeture cieux à la pluie, tournant rivières à sang...et beaucoup plus. Cette mission durera 3.5 années ou 42 mois. La bête haïront ces 2 hommes et même à tuer, la bête, les Nations se réjouiront, et ils vont jeter leurs organes sur les grandes voies pour tous à voir, peut-être même comme une menace pour ceux qui osent défier la pourrait de la bête sauvage (Apocalypse 11:3, 7-10 Apocalypse 13:4b). Mais ces deux hommes augmentera à nouveau après trois jours et demi, ou d'années si elle est prise littéralement sur jour pour une année règle comme donné par l'Éternel to Ézéchiel. Et à l'époque, lorsqu'ils apparaissent encore une fois, tous seront dans la crainte de ces deux, et tomberont faint par crainte pour ce qui est à propos de venir à l'humanité, pour ces deux, seront prises dans un nuage au sein position de l'Éternel à regarder le sort retombe sur leurs ennemis. La 7e trompette sonnera et le Royaume éternel devient s et son Christ s. Ce sera un off, une fois vu événement qui va être considéré seulement cette fois, et jamais. Les Bêtes sauvages règne sera rempli avec terreur abjecte. (Rev 11:11 ézéchiel 37:3, 10 Rev 11:2 13:5 Daniel 7:21, 24-26, 12:11a Luc 21:20-*24* Matt 24:15 Mark 133:14 Apocalypse 12:12 Daniel 12:1)).

[Okinawa]

This is just a little bit about life in china.

... like they receive all the same programming from north to south and east to west...........can you imagine a world of automatons? because thats where its going, and a life with no individuality or creation is certainly no life for me. And as the Germans would say, "Ohne mich"

The students have no life skills, no social skills, all they know is education, education, education, education, but not education of a kind that will advance them or help in any kind of way.

They don't bring knives and guns to school with them, but they are subversive in more subtle ways. The classes have party members who are "monitors", really class snitches.

If we fail a student, and I have failed many, they or the school try to exert pressure to re-set the marks, like trying to give them cart Blanche to proceed on to other things they are not capable of achieving.

The same shite is going on in Japan.

What's your take on foreign service folk in the schools. In Japan, these scumbags along with networked freemasons and friends of the elite have got things pretty well managed.

Expect these foreign service educators in your schools back home in the West after they learn various tricks, and how to commit crimes without being caught.

[Elijah returns]

Your message is a little cryptic to say the least. And when talk you talk of foreign scumbags, well we are all foreign on here, mostly american and british, so you are being pretty insulting.

But as Chuck Missler/ Dr Dennis Cuddy would say, everything is pretty "standardised". Was talking to a japanese man tonight from Tokyo, he workd in an office....Guess what? ISO........International Standards. The education here is bog standard, they dont like the teachers teaching the students to think out of the box. The students here, as long as they have computer games, mobile telephones, drugs (yes drugs), a girl to have sex with, drink, fags, then all is ok, but when it boils down to work, they want to do the very minimum, and they dont want teachers that will rock the boat and speak out about things that are plain for all to see.

Dont know about masons, but there are the "party faithful", the community<ists>, the goody two shoes who do everything right to keep comrade br party leader smiling. They are bent from top to bottom, and theres no point in going to the Police because they are all on the books, if you know what I mean. And, they all think alike, think in one direction, and sometimes when I have spoken out of the box, it doesn't compute with their programming, it has to be seen to be believed. They are very anti-japan, yet want to do business. But, soon when the north american union has its union as with Europe, and Africa will do, china will control what happens what goes on in its own back yard, that means Korea and Japan will be under a mandarin kosh.

Everything is all bog standard to keep things the way the oligarchs obviously want it, they want nations of plebs that don't do too much thinking, so they lay on every conceivable thing possible for the diversion of whats going on and whats going to happen. They have eugenics here, one child families, when girls are born, more often than not, they are left to die, children with any kind of defects too, because they all want boys, everything has to be perfect for Comrade Br of the commune....have you ever heard of the little emperor syndrome?

My life is no longer centered around material things, money, accumulation, etc....I have no home, I own nothing, want nothing, except to preach Gods word about the oncoming onslaught and Gods kingdom. If I can live to see the last two promised witnesses of Christ i will be happy. I am very ill now, so don't have much longer, so when I am out of it, the world will keep turning and the mobsters and gangsters will keep prospering until Gods kingdom does come.

Alex Jones, Anthony Hilder, Alan Watt, Chuck Missler....what they have all preached about is going to come true, but on here I want people to see the spiritual/biblical aspects of these things that have since long been prophesied. Last night, I listened to an MP3 from Alan Watt, and hes right, many of us will die, so we must do all we can now, and shout it out, so other people can wake up to whats going on.....for me, I cannot do this from a political perspective, but only a spiritual one in pointing out this will happen and Gods answer to it, but my time is short indeed...a few weeks at most.

I am in no church, as all churches are, as Maxwell Jordan has said, at the bottom of the dirt pile. I don't want the teaching or philosophy of men, only of God. There are things in my life I do and shouldn't, like swearing, but I cant help myself when people make me mad, like some idiots on this board, using it as a means to attack the more honest of other people on this board who are here for genuine reasons.

I don't know about teaching in the west, only know its bad, but unsure if teachers commit crimes as you maintain?? if they do they are normally dismissed. But, Policemen commit crimes. In Scotland there are now about 200 officers with two or more criminal records, and they are employing foreigners now into their ranks. They can do as they wish, but they are the ones that will carry the judgement for it. You should only be concerned about your personal failings and not those of others abroad, because, as Romans says, its up to God if they stand or fall before him.

But, Alex, cant comprehend just how bad things are going to be. Soon 1/4 of the world will be eradicated by war. This will be the precursor for the rise of the last king/Antichrist/new world order, but how they are going to do it, thats the trick???

Michael Tsarion predicts the assassination of the President, as, in his own words, the psychopaths that rule the world, this is their devious dark thinking, and maybe this is the kind of sacrifice they want.....maybe something else. maybe a nuclear rocket, as it will have to be scary enough for people to give up and give in so the Antichrist can come into power without much opposition whatsoever. And, the book of Revelation, says that the world follows the beast (New world order) in wonderment and in awe. He will be seen as an angel, a Saviour, and remember this rapid oncoming kingdom is only satans mimic one of Gods real one, and the Antichrist cant rise until Satan has been expelled from heaven, cause thats when he goes off in his great rage and rampage.

I have had enough now, and no strength to go on, plus I have been through a pile of shit with the Police also. I was water Board and pissed on because I complained about a Jehovah's Witness Cop, so you can maybe see why I think the way i do now, and want no more part in this very corrupt world. We will all have to stand up and speak at some point, and like Dr Watt has said, we must leave a marker behind as a testimony to show there are people who wont back down, regardless of the cost. Its better to die for what you believe in than to die as a coward, and if you are into the taking sides game, then sooner or later you reap the costs for f**king with divine law and justice. Enuff said.

"To sin by Silence when we know we should speak out, is what makes cowards of men"

[/color]
http://www.lawfullawyers.co.uk/news_31655.html,
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-18907567_ITM

Northern Constabulary and the procurator fiscal for the Highlands and Islands have confirmed that they are investigating a complaint against a Sutherland police officer. Paul MacDonald, formerly of Ardgay, but now living in Inverness, has lodged a complaint against Constable George Pickett, who was stationed at Bonar Bridge, but has recently transferred to Alness police station. He claims Constable Pickett had allegedly physically abused him and shown racial and religious hatred. Mr MacDonald used to be a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses and it is understood that Constable Pickett is still a member of the church. Chief Inspector Andrew MacLean, stationed at police headquarters in Inverness, yesterday said: "Mr MacDonald has lodged a complaint against the police and it is being investigated in accordance with our normal procedures." Constable Pickett declined to comment last night.

[Okinawa]

Your message is a little cryptic to say the least. And when talk you talk of foreign scumbags, well we are all foreign on here, mostly american and british, so you are being pretty insulting.

Sorry, I was referring to the foreigners in the foreign service intelligence agencies.

In Japan, they are scum. Aside from spying, they are involved in dealing drugs, entrapment, coercion, culture creation for the NWO, brainwashing, dumbing down of education, and other nasty stuff.

The lot of them should be in jail.

[Joseon]

This is a good thread. keep it going.

Korea is going through the same thing and most of the serfs don't realize what is happening to the entire continent of Asia. People are getting poorer by the year. And yet, there are plenty of diversions to keep them from rebelling. It is all built upon eugenics, that is in Communist China, North Korea and Capitalist South Korea and Japan.

Japan and South Korea has about 1.2 children per couple. China already has a 1 child policy. The difference lies only in the way the NWO accomplished their means to reduce the population of Asia. The biggest issue that irks me is that most Koreans do not understand that both North Korea and South Korea was a manipulated event to begin with. North Korea is owned lock stock and barrel. Why would Kim Jong Il's children be allowed into the best European schools? South Korea has been owned by NATO and the UN since the 1950s and Japan since the early 1900s.

But as they say, it's an agenda to decrease the population and let the better types live in the new age. Those that are awake, just might have a chance to see that age come through.

[Okinawa]

South Korea has been owned by NATO and the UN since the 1950s and Japan since the early 1900s.

The first Anglo-Japanese Alliance (日英同盟, Nichi-Ei Dōmei?) was signed in London at what is now the Lansdowne Club, on January 30, 1902, by Lord Lansdowne (British foreign secretary) and Hayashi Tadasu (Japanese minister in London). A diplomatic milestone for its ending of Britain's splendid isolation, the alliance was renewed and extended in scope twice, in 1905 and 1911, before its demise in 1921. It officially terminated in 1923. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Japanese_Alliance

The Meiji Emperor receiving the Order of the Garter from Prince Arthur of Connaught in 1906, as a consequence of the Anglo-Japanese Alliance. The Emperor of Japan is the only monarch outside of Europe who is a member. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/MeijiEmperorReceivingOrderOfTheGarter1906.jpg

The banner of Emperor Hirohito of Japan was removed from St. George's chapel when Japan entered World War II, but that banner and the Japanese monarch's knighthood were restored by Elizabeth II. The Emperor was particularly pleased by the restoration of his banner as a Knight of the Garter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Garter

In 1998, during a state visit to the United Kingdom, he was invested with The Most Noble Order of the Garter. To this date, Akihito is the only stranger Knight of the Garter who is of non-European descent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/76386.stm
Friday, 10 April, 1998, 21:51 GMT 22:51 UK
PoWs' anger at Akihito honour
Former PoWs are still awaiting compensation

The Queen's intention to give Emperor Akihito of Japan the Order of the Garter will spur protests, a leader of Japanese war camp survivors has warned.

Buckingham Palace has confirmed that Akihito will receive the Order during a state visit to Britain, which starts on May 26 - the first by a Japanese emperor for nearly three decades.

But the decision has infuriated Britons who were held in Japanese prison camps during World War II.

Arthur Titherington: "My first feeling is despair"

The Prime Minister Tony Blair and Foreign Secretary Robin Cook were to blame for having advised the Queen to bestow the honour, said Arthur Titherington, Chairman of the Japanese Labour Camps Survivors Association.

Former PoWs, who are demanding an apology for their treatment, say the decision highlights the sensitive timing of the award at a time they are still fighting for compensation.

Mr Titherington said: "I am afraid this is going to harden people's views about protesting during the Emperor's visit."

Martyn Day, solicitor for the Japanese Prisoners of War and Civilian Internees Association, said the PoWs felt the honour was "surprising" at a time when many veterans were awaiting the outcome of a long-running legal battle for compensation from the Japanese authorities.

"I think many will be very disappointed and very surprised that the Queen sees fit to take this course of action," he said.

"It comes at a time when the Japanese have found it still impossible properly to atone for what they did in the Second World War to PoWs."

Liberal Democrat MP Mark Oaten, chairman of the all-party group on prisoners of war, said he hoped that Japan would use the state visit to announce a new apology and compensation.

"The all-party group welcomes closer links between Japan and Britain and, while supporting this honour, believes it should be reciprocated with a full apology and compensation from Japan towards the prisoners of war," he said.

"We hope the Emperor will use his visit to announce this."

[Elijah returns]

Joeson, soon North Korea will acquiesce....a few months, keep an eye out for it, they will, sorry, they are going to disarm

Okinawa, I an 100% behind you on that one, no doubt about it.

Religion, it too isinvolved. A bishop from the 40s from England spoke of the new world order, and how some 50 years from that point intime all would be continually downloaded and bombarded by education, the continual downloads and upgrades on what is right, and who was at war with who (1984). Alan Watt also spoke of linguistics being utilised, and here I can tell you, from personal experience, when you speak outside the accepted norm, what you speak is completely Alien to what the accepted man manufactured norm really is. There is a good book on how linguistics are used to effect: Doublespeak, When words become weapons by Steven Poole 2007., and here in China, even today, as I have said, what is normal today in china may be abnormal tomorrow....it is a day on day thing, and its an idea the British Embassy in Beijing advocate, its like everyone who knows, everyone who is in the loop have sold their souls out to these devils of the coming dawn of evil.

Jehovah's Witnesses, certainly they use Gods name, but I have a Rolex, but that doesn't mean real. A Tree is known by its fruitage, like a Christian has hallmarks that identify him as a real child of God. The Jws, they are a publishing corporation, and has nothing to do with Christ or God, but to do with serving a publishing corporate, and adherents now think that it has been infiltrated by the UN since a long time now, and everyone that believes the doctrine, does so, because of what is downloaded from Brooklyn in New York. Reading and independent study of the bible is forbidden, reading other bible versions, other Christian literature, And when this last King comes, there will be a world religion, there needs to be religion otherwise the masses wont swing for it, and it will be a religion but  "not" one of the true God, thats why the Antichrist when he comes is the great apostate, but this religion is one of whereby hatred, malice and perversity will be used to hurt and inflict harm on innocent people (Dr Alan Watt/Alex Jones/Alex Jones show 23rd March 2009). This is what this last king to come has in store for the world, a white china of automatons. A world collective, just like Star Treks Borg. Funnily enough, the Jehovah witnesses religion is also known as the Borg. But, real Christians are free men/women, the truth has set them free, and this truth, as Solomon has said is like silver, and he used silver because its harder to find as well as to refine.

This last king will control everything, even the internet, telling you what you may view and what you cant, even what you can buy, and what you cant, and if you don't do as he wants, then you cant buy or sell, you may even be killed off.

If you read the bible in Daniel 11 and Revelation 13, we learn of a foreign god and even a false prophet that will be used to serve this last King, this last king who gets his power from Satan will grant this false prophet power to make people bow down before him:

Dear Friends, this is no joke, this is deadly serious, many of us will die. Even Alex agrees that this thing is from Satan himself. These men have had it all well thought out, and will use aspects from all religions, though Christ wont figure into his religion, as he is Antichrist, and he will use aspects of all previous governments from Machiavellian, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, for his ultimate monster which will be bent on total destruction of mankind, as it reflects the mind of Satan, as soon, when war breaks out in heaven and place will be found for Satan no more, and he is dismissed from heaven and comes down to this earth in great rage, but his reign will be for 1260 days only:

All we are seeing now, even hearing, even from Bible scholars, as it was prophesied, even there are those "roving" and "searching" as to the meaning of these things and when these things will actually be Daniel 12:4 Amos 3:7

We are nearing that time now, but before this last king Rises, the will be a war soon, this war will eradicate 1/4 of the worlds population, this system will collapse, the people will call out for their messiah, and they will get it, but one who will trap them and enslave them and lead them to destruction just shortly afterwards, and as Anthony Hilder said in his 9/11 movie, those placing faith in Bush and his brotherhood of death, they aren't going to heaven, they are going straight to hell.

Time of War, Famine, Natural Disaster, 1/4 of the world will be wiped out

Matthew 24:4-14 Revelation 6:2-17 Luke 21:11
 10:8-11 11:3-7 Acts 1:8 Zechariah 4:14 Malachi 4:4 Isaiah 40:3

I ask, I plead, I beg you to listen to Jones, Watt and Co, but to take into consideration Gods promise to free you from this monster that is coming, just confess Christ and make him king in your hearts and minds. Soon, the last two witnesses are coming and will appear during the bloodiest period of mans history in the hope of turning them back to God before this day breaks forward.

Satans expulsion and 1260 day reign of himself and his New World Order

Rev 12:7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels going out to the fight with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels made war,
Rev 12:8  And they were overcome, and there was no more place for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was forced down, the old snake, who is named the Evil One and Satan, by whom all the earth is turned from the right way; he was forced down to the earth, and his angels were forced down with him.

Rev 12:4 And his tail was pulling a third part of the stars of heaven down to the earth, and the dragon took his place before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when the birth had taken place he might put an end to her child.

Rev 13:5  And there was given to him a mouth to say words of pride against God; and there was given to him authority to go on for forty-two months. Dan 7:20  And about the ten horns on his head and the other which came up, causing the fall of three; that horn which had eyes, and a mouth saying great things, which seemed to be greater than the other horns.
Dan 7:21  And I saw how that horn made war on the saints and overcame them, Dan 7:25  And he will say words against the Most High, attempting to put an end to the saints of the Most High; and he will have the idea of changing times and law; and the saints will be given into his hands for a time and times and half a time. Dan 12:11  And from the time when the regular burned offering is taken away, and an unclean thing causing fear is put up, there will be a thousand, two hundred and ninety days.

Use of a false god

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Dan 11:37  He will have no respect for the gods of his fathers or for the god desired by women; he will have no respect for any god: for he will put himself on high over all.
Dan 11:38  But in place of this he will give honour to the god of armed places, and to a god of whom his fathers had no knowledge he will give honour with gold and silver and jewels and things to be desired.
Dan 11:39  And he will make use of the people of a strange god to keep his strongest places; to those whom he takes note of he will give high honour: and he will make them rulers over the mass of the people, and will make division of the land for a price.

2Th 2:3  Give no belief to false words: because there will first be a falling away from the faith, and the revelation of the man of sin, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4  Who puts himself against all authority, lifting himself up over all which is named God or is given worship; so that he takes his seat in the Temple of God, putting himself forward as God.

Rev 13:11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and his voice was like that of a dragon.
Rev 13:12  And he makes use of all the authority of the first beast before his eyes. And he makes the earth and those who are in it give worship to the first beast, whose death-wound was made well.
Rev 13:13  And he does great signs, even making fire come down from heaven on the earth before the eyes of men.
Rev 13:14  And those who are on the earth are turned from the true way by him through the signs which he was given power to do before the beast; giving orders to those who are on the earth to make an image to the beast, who was wounded by the sword, and came to life.
Rev 13:15  And he had power to give breath to the image of the beast, so that words might come from the image of the beast, and that he might have all those who did not give worship to the image of the beast put to death.
Rev 13:16  And he gives to all, small and great, the poor and those who have wealth, the free and those who are not free, a mark on their right hand or on their brows;
Rev 13:17  So that no man might be able to do trade but he who has the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. He who has knowledge let him get the number of the beast; because it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty-six

[Freeski]

Yes, great thread!

Elijah, maybe I missed it but when you say you're going away in a week or so, you mean just away from this forum, right?

Best of luck in whatever challenges you face.

[Elijah returns]

Have a look at this once more it gives a general view of the order of things to come

The Six Seals To Seven Trumpets

By

Paul MacDonald

Peoples Republic of China

The Six Seals
The Four Horsemen

The Wrath of Man
(1260 days)
Christ opens the first of Seven seals
Satan falls to earth

(Matthew 24:4-14 Revelation 6:2-17) First Time Period of 42 Months

First Seal: Christ begins to wage war amidst his enemies.
Second Seal: Nation against nation
Third Seal: Famine
Fourth Seal: 1/4 of earth dies (1.5+ billion)
Fifth Seal: Martyrdom of holy ones of Jehovah.
Sixth Seal: Earthquakes, stars fall, Present System as ruled by Britain and America collapses. Satan is expelled from Heaven and Christ takes over control. This present systems collapse coincides with Satan’s expulsion. The King and Kingdom of Tyre come to their end.

Sudden birth pains: The Great Tribulation begins, and rise of Antichrist begins suddenly and unexpectedly.

The first 3 1/2 years start with the beginning of the Antichrist's effort of world conquest, which helps plunge the world into the deadliest wars in history, followed by the resulting famines, disease, persecutions, and complete breakdown of the old world order, making way for the Satan’s mimic kingdom of Jehovah’s real one by means of his New World Order. And as Christ himself had said, many of the holy ones will be fooled by this.

Oil is the key. Oil has become the life blood of the world's economies. The Antichrist will likely gain broad power by controlling much of the world's oil supply, as well as the internet, banking, satellite systems, and nuclear weapons to be sure.
The Gospel must be preached to all nations is a requirement before the end time comes. And this commission is carried out by the elite two witness group. The Great Commission will be completed as the Gentile world overwhelmingly rejects Christ. As last and formal worship of Jehovah stops 30 days before the two witnesses complete their mission and Wild Beast is set up.

The Two Witnesses that come to prophesy are slain by the Beast and resurrected after 3 1/2 days. This occurs just before the Wild Beast takes over supreme control. The two witnesses will preach the good news of the kingdom in this first time period. It will be a worldwide work, and one filled with works greater than that of Christ. Like Christ, these last two are cut off in the middle of the last week
________________________________________

The Seventh Seal
The Six Trumpets

The Wrath of Satan
(1260 days)

Set up of
Satan’s New World Order

(Matthew 24:15-31 Luke 21:20-*24 Revelation 8:1-9:21 11:15) Second Time Period/42 Months

Satan has been expelled and hurled down to the earth。Christ now rules, but the Kingdom does not become Jehovah’s or his Christ’s until the 7th Trumpet.

Seventh Seal: Silence in Heaven for 1/2 an hour, or 21 months until 1st trumpet is blown. The Nations have been lulled into a sense of false peace and security by this skilled Politician. The call of peace and security may go forward on or before the silence in heaven comes to its end. During this time the instruments of the destruction are being prepared in heaven ready to be poured out on the wild beast and those that’ve accepted his mark.

There is a space of 1/2 hour between Seventh seal and First Trumpet=21 Months?

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First Trumpet/ First Bowl: Hail of fire – first plague strikes earth. 1/3 plants die in the destruction。
Second Trumpet/ Second Bowl: Fiery Mountain hurled into sea - 1/3 sea life dies.
Sea turns to blood. 1/3 of sea creatures die, 1/3 of boats destroyed.
Third Trumpet/ Third Bowl: The star Wormwood falls to the earth. 1/3 rivers are poisoned. Many people die from drinking this.
Fourth Trumpet/ Fourth Bowl: 1/3 heavens darkened by smoke and fires.
Fifth Trumpet/ Fifth Bowl: 5 months of torture by locusts. The Kingdom of the wild beast begins to darken. Trumpets 5-7 are the last 3 woes. Jehovah’s people released 110 days before Armageddon.
Sixth Trumpet/ Sixth Bowl: The 200 million man army of the wild beast gets ready to move on in on Babylon to destroy it at the appointed time for its destruction. 1/3 of mankind (another 1.5+ billion people) will be eradicated.
Satan has been expelled. He drags down one third of the Heavens with him to the earth in great rage knowing his time is short, namely, 1260 days or 3.5 years, the same duration as that of his final and last king.

144,000 are sealed by God. Holy ones of the remainder of the remnant are taken into the wilderness for the second 3 1/2 years, "On the wings of a giant eagle."

The second 3 1/2 years start with the Abomination of Desolation: The Antichrist invades the holy place of Jehovah and sets himself up as god in the temple in Jerusalem, eliminating all true worship around the world. He occupies and tramples on Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years. This thing is served by a false prophet that forces all on the earth to bow down to it. It performs signs so as to mislead many, even some of Gods holy ones too.

The Antichrist comes to power in this turbulent time as a skilled politician. He is given control of the world's economic and political systems by the 10 nations in hopes that he can bring peace. He takes over and destroys Christian worship around the world. Jehovah’s people go into servitude under the boot heel of Babylon the Great and the Wild Beast for the period of 2300 evenings and mornings or 1150 days This antichrist is also Satan’s mimic kingdom of Gods real one, many will be fooled by it when he arrives believing Gods kingdom is represented through this beast, just after the demise of America and Britain. The World follows this beast with wonderment and awe.

The Mark of the Beast is instituted to represent the force of absolute allegiance to the one world government/religion. Anyone who does not carry this mark cannot buy or sell, and may well perish by means of the Sword.
The Great Harlot, Christianized Rome, embodied by the western countries in false worship, will hand power over to the Beast but will be betrayed by him in a single day of fiery destruction.

The World's armies get ready and prepare to move on in on to Babylon to destroy it. The Wild Beast will send an Army of 200 million men, ruthlessly killing half the world’s population along the way. This is the second last woe.

The Seventh Trumpet
Christ’s Arrival

The Wrath of God

Christ returns
144000 rise to him
Armageddon

Last Time Period. Christ Returns/
(Matthew 24:29-31 1 Corin 15:51-52 1Thess 4:13-17 Revelation 11:15 Revelation16:17-21)

Seventh Trumpet/ Seventh Bowl: Poured out in the air - lightning, hail, and earthquake. Cities of the nations fall
(last trumpet). The 6 bowls of God’s wrath have come to their completion and the 7th is finally poured out, this is the last, it is Armageddon.

The 144000 rise as Christ returns and His kingdom on earth is declared, and the 144000, both those sleeping in the dust and those still alive at sounding of the 7th trumpet are taken up to their places to be Kings and Priests along with Christ for a reign of 1000 years.

The Sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky announcing Christ's return... Every person on earth will see Christ as He returns, and begin to beat themselves in lamentation and fall out of fear for what is about to occur.
The remnant of Israel will rise to Christ in an instant.

The seventh bowl is poured out on the beast's kingdom and mankind as a judgment on those who have received his mark. This is definitely the last. The finish of Gods anger.

Christ destroys the world's armies at Armageddon. Blood will come up to the horse’s bridles for 200 miles as Christ slays some millions of troops and saves Israel his people from annihilation.
The Wild Beast along with the False Prophet that serves it are destroyed, Christ abysses Satan for the 1000 year period in which he will reign

Christ’s Marriage in Heaven

Christ begins his thousand year reign over the earth.

After the Millennium

Satan is released once more to lead Gog and Magog against Israel and is defeated once and for all time.
The Great White Throne Judgment separates those who are in the book of Life from those who rejected Christ. The wicked are finally destroyed.

The old universe passes away with a roar and a new heaven and earth are created.
 
The New Jerusalem, the eternal city, comes down out of heaven. Eternal future begins.

The tent of God will indeed be with mankind, and they will indeed be his peoples. Harmony is restored, and Jehovah once again, becomes all things to all those that love him.

The General Tribulation covers the entire 7 years.
The Great Tribulation is the second 3 1/2 years.
The Day of the Jehovah begins when Jesus Christ rules in heaven after Satan’s expulsion.
The first 3 1/2 years ends in death, the second 3 1/2 ends in resurrection = 7 years for Jehovah’s perfect plan.

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[Elijah returns]

Sorry, friend, not from the forum, I mean off the radar.

I am very ill, in great pain, and a coward at heart, and don't know if I could face life in this on coming regime, in fact, I know I couldn't, and would be ashamed to do anything that would bring shame upon Gods name as well as that of Christs.

I am in a very bad way.

So, all I can do, is preach and teach what I know until that time comes, in the hope even if one soul would listen, take note, and get up and get out when the time comes.

I have no material things, just two sets of clothes, no money, no desire for things of this world, though there are very many beautiful things of this world, people too..........you are all individual, don't let people take that from you (Victor Frankl).

Get rid of your TVs, Dvds, anything and everything that can take you away from what is really going on. Sit down to dinner with your families, make a point of speaking to a new person each day, say hi, and if time allows it speak to them get to know them, do something you always wanted to do, love your wives/husbands/mums/dads/kids/grannies and granpas.....go dig an old persons garden, go and do shopping or a good deed for someone less able, most of all, be you, be human, be the persons you ought to be......and dont be mislead by no man and no thing, remain focused.

I wish I could tell you more, but time is running out.

If I could just live to see Gods last two witnesses, that would mean everything to me, to know what I and indeed others spoke of came true.

[Freeski]

Your knowledge of the Chinese people is very interesting... like the third post said. I was going to give it a "+1" right there and then until I saw it was a mile long. But I did read the Armageddon post, and I've read (not studied) Revelation. Seeing what's in front of us -- this global drive to dictatorship -- is mind-blowing to say the least, but it must be very different for people of strong faith and religious beliefs, like yourself I'm sure. Don't give up, ever, because just because a bunch of bad guys are trying to enslave us, doesn't change the fact that our lives, this Earth and our friends are all gifts from God -- not them.

But yeah, it sucks.

[Elijah returns]

I feel for Alan Watt, a fellow Scotsman, in fact I emailed him in July about artificial weather/climate control here in china. I feel for Alex, because they have put their necks on the block, but I believe, Christs brothers are coming soon, if I could just see them and hear them, then all I have done and written wasn't in vain.

I am in fact a weak man, as I have bad habits like swearing. I don't womanize, drink or smoke though....and go to no church.

But, the holy ones, Christs brothers, they will be sawn asunder, beheaded, jailed, spat on, burned, beaten and killed off.....the Antichrist is granted the power to do this.....but for 3.5 years only. By the time Christ goes forward to wage war soon and concludes to destroy at the conclusion, 7 years will pass, and 3/4 of the worlds population will have been wiped out....so, in end effect, man is doing Gods work for him, and when Armageddon comes, when we calculate those left over, and the number of angels per head of persons, Armageddon will be roughly 8 seconds in duration.

People that tell the truth are hard to find, as the bible says, in Psalms, the righteous one has disappeared away from the earth, the remainder, are all corrupt. In china, corruption is in every facet, from North to south, east to west, and in every facet of government and society, and its the lies, deceit that makes it difficult for me to want to live. Enoch, he lived in a time like this, but he was "transfered" so he wouldn't have to suffer and endure it. Jehovah saw his heart.

There are going to be some, but only some, not all, and I gues these are the ones who will flees to the wilderness for the remainder of Satans reign and the reign of this new world order?? but some of the holy ones of the remnant of the 144000 that are going to be spared this hour of testing though, we read this also in revelation.

[Freeski]

I feel for Alan Watt, a fellow Scotsman, in fact I emailed him in July about artificial weather/climate control here in china. I feel for Alex, because they have put their necks on the block, but I believe, Christs brothers are coming soon, if I could just see them and hear them, then all I have done and written wasn't in vain.

I am in fact a weak man, as I have bad habits like swearing. I don't womanize, drink or smoke though....and go to no church.

But, the holy ones, Christs brothers, they will be sawn asunder, beheaded, jailed, spat on, burned, beaten and killed off.....the Antichrist is granted the power to do this.....but for 3.5 years only. By the time Christ goes forward to wage war soon and concludes to destroy at the conclusion, 7 years will pass, and 3/4 of the worlds population will have been wiped out....so, in end effect, man is doing Gods work for him, and when Armageddon comes, when we calculate those left over, and the number of angels per head of persons, Armageddon will be roughly 8 seconds in duration.

People that tell the truth are hard to find, as the bible says, in Psalms, the righteous one has disappeared away from the earth, the remainder, are all corrupt. In china, corruption is in every facet, from North to south, east to west, and in every facet of government and society, and its the lies, deceit that makes it difficult for me to want to live. Enoch, he lived in a time like this, but he was "transfered" so he wouldn't have to suffer and endure it. Jehovah saw his heart.

There are going to be some, but only some, not all, and I gues these are the ones who will flees to the wilderness for the remainder of Satans reign and the reign of this new world order?? but some of the holy ones of the remnant of the 144000 that are going to be spared this hour of testing though, we read this also in revelation.

Forget about them! It's better to be alive than to not be alive. You have to agree with that.

Once Jesse's "conspiracy Theory" is over, I'm going for a walk in the snow!

[Elijah returns]

Dear Friends, was listening to an mp3 with Alex and Alan. And it was on the use of linguistics, how information that one learned yesterday, may be different tomorrow. A few years ago, The Royal Bank of Scotland bought  a large piece of Bank of China, they virtually own it, as they do AMN Amro. Even in the light of hard and fast evidence, my students didn't believe it, they could even read about it on-line, but they said it was western propaganda, and that their leaders of their country would never sell their National Bank, and they don't believe that china will crash when the dollar does, they are china, "we shall prevail, we shall overcome, we have the power...can we do it, yes we can"....this is the type of thinking. Can you imagine living in a society like this where lies are drummed into you? where todays lies will be replaced by tomorrows new ones, this is very real friends, I have spoken to many colleagues, and we all have the same problems in understanding these modes of thought, and lack of life and social skills.........a place where there is no real scope for individuality and creation. You may not see this if you just visit. You have to live amidst them, and look real deeply.

I usually give the students a piece of work to do, to spur on some creativity. I tell them the beginning of a story, and they must finish it. But, guaranteed, next day, they will come to class and will all have the same story, maybe even taken from the internet...yeah, they even copy work. So, soon, we will live in a society like this where as Alan and Alex have said your thinking will be worked out for you so carefully, it will be the horns of dilemma type thinking so you arrive at the desired solution (Greene, 48 Laws of Power/Kissinger).

In 1984, the band Ultravox had this song, its from the album "Lament", its called "white China", now tell me if this is true or not?

"White China"

White China


When pale turns to pink
With a soft unnerving ease
And all you've built around
May just tumble to the ground

We stand or fall
With your future in another's hands
We stand or fall
When your life is not your own

When white turns to red
In the not too distant days
Will force and misery
Be the life you have to lead?

We stand or fall
With your children in anothers world
We stand or fall
When your town is not your own

Chorus:

White China
White China

When crimson takes a hold
When the lights go down on all you've ever known
When all you'll ever do
Is worked out for you

We stand or fall
When the thoughts you have are not your own
We stand or fall
When the freedom slips away


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[Elijah returns]

Dear Okinanwa, I shouldn't say this, but what the hell, but it screws me for other work with them, But Beijing University and Cornell in NY, they have this joint project, they are/were interested in me, but on closer inspection, looking at the details, its all NWO stuff, One World, One Dream, about pumping NWO stuff, I wwould have to post it here online for you to see, and then you would see the hidden agenda behind it, and Cornell University, well they have a United Nations Library, the reason I know this is because Jehovahs Witnesses are mixed up in a controversy about using the UN Library at Cornell. This Beijing NY thing, its about pumping culture, not just language. The English language industry here is massive, and they have kids from age of 2 starting. English will obviously be the language, not only for business, but for culture too, and I think if they cant come to grips with it, then there could be consequences??? The English language industry here, there is more to it than I initially thought, it goes deeper, and on reading the stuff on this project my suspicions were clear, so, as you know, I am a man of principle, so must pull out and practice what I preach.

[amazon]

Dear Elijah returns,

I have been reading your posts which cover the past few days,
along with the responses of other people
who are either working in Asia,
are stationed in Asia
or are Asian by birth.

I have nothing of real importance to add,
as I read, ponder, feel, and go on to the next post.
However, I have spent close to 2 hours reading the above.

I live in the UK and have a British husband.
We were discussing how it is possible that by the time of Armeggedon,
we may have died of "natural causes" as we are middle-aged.
When younger, we held onto life as if it were our last £10.

Now that I am ill and always in pain,
I know it is easier for me to speak up and do what is right.
If I lose my life in doing so, so be it.
I will not casually throw away this gift from God, this life I lead.
However, when the time comes for me to be tested,
I will do what is right by God and my conscience.

I live in poverty, with few possessions.
It was not always this way,
but I willingly gave up most of my possessions to move to the UK.

When illness stopped me from working,
I had to sell what I could for food,
and gave away what I could not bring to a smaller flat.
After all, I have what is most important:
my relationship with God,
my marriage,
my sense of humour
my good education
and my concern for other people.

While I share your desire to be off the grid
(my husband goes by the name EvadingGrid ),
how connected I will be will depend on some factors right now beyond my control.
I spend time each day spreading the word about what is happening to our world,
and what those in power are doing to us.

RE: your discussion of Revelations
I do find it difficult to believe that there is only enough room for 144,000 to be with God/Christ/Holy Spirit.
Out of all the dead who go before us, and all those to follow,
are there not more than 144,000  good people whom God will call to live with Him?
What am I missing here , in your view?

Also, I think America could easily rival Rome as the Whore of Babylon .
My country of birth is now an imperialistic regime out to invade every nation it can.
If it is not in another country, it is not due to lack of trying.
Where do you see America's place in the Book of revelations?

I hope these questions give you pause for thought
and bring you out of your pain for a bit.

Also, we have quite a few Brits, Europeans, Aussies,
and others from other countries posting on Propaganda Matrix.
You would be welcomed there.
The Watson brothers run that site.

Me, despite being born in one of the original 13 American colonies,
my Granma was born in Scotland and her husband,my Grandad, in Northern Ireland.
I have always felt a special longing to come to the UK,
and now I have.

God bless you today and always.
         

[Elijah returns]

Revelation: there are only 144000 places in heaven for those that will reign as kings and priests with Christ, only 144000. You can read my essay on the Angels of the seven churches. We also know this from reading revelation.
These 144000, are only the "chose" ones, a small group, and they don't rise until the last trumpet, but Christ being the first to rise opened the way up for them to be received home to him when the time comes at the 7th trumpet, though, as Paul and Christ both said, there would be some from amongst those who wont taste death at all. These, and only these have the heavenly calling. Others now living, others who have died before will go on into the kingdom but here upon this earth, for as Isaiah said, the earth was designed to be lived upon and inhabited, even forever, and David said, the meek shall inherit it and live upon it forever, and David will rule over them as their King: Here is a part of the Angels of the 7 Churches, which I will pm on to you:

Angels of the Seven Churches

God the Father and Jesus Christ have designed a plan for the salvation of all mankind and within this plan, some people are offered an awesome opportunity to participate in the first resurrection, which is a better resurrection. All those who participate in the first resurrection are called to be kings and priests, and will be given immortality in the same way that God the Father and Jesus Christ have immortality.
Because the opportunity to participate in the first resurrection brings with it such tremendous rewards and responsibilities in the Family and Kingdom of God, it is extremely important to understand that God the Father will not give eternal life nor immorality to anyone who is unwilling to remain faithful, steadfast, and do the things that he requires.


But, there is a great crowd coming out of all of this, they will live here on the earth., they will live not for 70, 80, 90 years, but forever, the way it was meant to be in the very begining, they will live as long as the Alpha and Omega lives for, and this Alpha and Omega literally means without end.

Soon, the last two witnesses who are part of this heavenly calling will come, they come before the antichrist rises. They come to preach the good news of Gods Kingdom. They are the elite, they are the ones charged with doing this, as christ was, and like christ, they die in the middle of the week, but last and 70th one. Not all of the holy ones die, only some, but some will be alive when the last trumpet is blown. Whilst here, this elijah to come, will lead a vast number back to God, men, women, kids, great, small, even kings too. Like christ they will perform miracles, but as christ said, they will be greater ones. They will cure the sick, even raise the dead as part of their mission to prove their divine authority. But, the kings of the New World Order will kill them as the Bible says in Daniel and in Revelation, just two of the many books written centuries ago concerning the times just ahead of us now. If you come across these two, you may have your ailments cured, just as a fore gleam of what will be waiting just ahead in 7 years time inside the kingdom of God.................that goes for everyone here.

I think Alex and Alan are being used by God to expose all of this, and God uses anyone he can, he even used a donkey to proclaim his judgments against wicked Baalam who set out for a price to betray his brothers, and if others wouldn't speak out, he would use stones and rocks to do it for him.

Have faith friend, have faith, even if its as small as a mustard grain, if you let it, it will grow into the biggest tree of all.

We are, as Alan and Alex have said, in that time now, now is the time.

Some of us will, some of us are going to die for protesting, some of us will die for refusing to take the mark of this last king which is the final king of the North, America if you like, but some will live to see its destruction three and 1/2 years later at Armageddon.

Not one hundred years folks, only 7, and the times now when he is rushing as fast as he can to get all these things put through and into action . Soon, America and Britain fall, as do their allies, and Babylon falls with them, but they rise again as the New World Order and New World Religion, this is coming really soon, stay awake, keep your senses, don't be fooled, be steadfast until the end.

[Elijah returns]

The NWO isn't a relatively new idea, it doesn't go back to the beginning of this century. Its even older than the times of Thomas Jefferson. Some Italian writings from the 13th century have written about it, but it goes back even further. Its all about two very diametrically opposed kingdoms. It goes back to very very beginning of our history.

Paul the Apostle said it "was at work" in his time, but, it goes back further, and to the 1st prophecy in the Bible:

2Th 2:7  For the secret of evil is even now at work: but there is one who is keeping back the evil till he is taken out of the way.

The restrainer, " the one holding back", could be God himself, that kept, allowed it to be hidden until the time was right for it all to be revealed. We now live in a time when God no longer features, and you could well say he has been taken out of the way for the philosophies and traditions and men that spring from Satan here upon this earth.

(2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work,.... Or "the mystery of that wicked one", as the Syriac; meaning either antichrist himself, and the spirit of antichrist, which were already in the world-Gill)

In the Begining

Gen 3:15 And there will be war between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed: by him will your head be crushed and by you his foot will be wounded.
Gen 3:16  To the woman he said, Great will be your pain in childbirth; in sorrow will your children come to birth; still your desire will be for your husband, but he will be your master.

These are the children/sons of God born of this woman who will, like christ be made to suffer "10 times", or completely as a teast, and even be put to death. And as the spirit of God and christ is at work in his children, the spirit of the ones that rules this world is at work in the children of Satan and his oncoming last Kingdom Ephesians 2:2 6:12 1 John 5:19.

Alex Jones himself, maybe even unwittingly has said that this NWO is a "design of Satan" (Alex Jones Show with Alan Watt 23 March 2009)

The Time is now, Now is the Time, so what are you going to do?

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[Elijah returns]

Soon, before this last king rises, there will be a last war, and between the last and present ruling kings, the kings of North and South:

Britain and America

This will be the false falg, but how it begins, I have no idea, but 1/4 of the world will die before the coming tyranny takes fast grip over our world.

[Elijah returns]

This is an edit of the above:

Soon, before this last king rises, there will be a last war, And before going to war with the holy ones and rising to power, the coming Anitchrist in his lust for domination must destroy three kings (Daniel 7:24-25), these will be three who will will not bow down, and then when the last king appears as a Saviour, the world receiving its mark follow it in wonderment and in awe, and even say who can do battle with it.

Britain and America

This will be the false falg, but how it begins, I have no idea, but 1/4 of the world will die before the coming tyranny takes fast grip over our world.

It may even lead to nuclear, as the consequences will be 1/4 of the world dies by means of this war, and famine, disease as well as natural disasters will ensue.

[Elijah returns]

The Set up of the Last King/NWO/Antichrist

How it may appear

What we see and experience now with regards the state of our world could even be described as living in the end times, but just the very beginning of the pangs of distress, for the end time is still future, a time which is still for an appointed time. The present World Ruler-ship as dominated by the American and Britain are soon to come to their end, but out of the ashes of their demise will rise the last and final one world ruler that will rule with absolute supremacy. The last king, who is the 8th that arises out of the vestiges of the previous seven, and he rises with Babylon on his back, and this last King appears scarlet in colour. There will be religious elements to this King and his kingdom, and he will be served, as Revelation says, by a false prophet that will force all of mankind to fall down and worship him, it will even perform many signs so as to deceive and mislead many, but to their own destruction(Revelation 13:3b 17:3,11-13 13:15-18).

The Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary defines red as: “inciting or endorsing radical, social, and or political change, especially by use of force”.

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But, well before this king makes his appearance, the last two prophets of God will come, and they will preach a new message, one that is sweet, but yet will have very bitter consequence.(Revelation 10:8-11 11:3-6). These prophets will be like Elijah and Moses, even possessing their powers. The power to close heavens to rainfall, turn rivers to blood, and we know that Elijah even raised the dead. The power to do whatever it is they wish, and by means of this, they will lead many back to God before the fear inspiring day of that one begins. Whatever they decide to tie up in heaven, and loose on the earth will be granted (Matthew 18:18 John 20:23 Acts 13:11-12). They will preach for 42 months before being executed by the last and final King that is yet to appear on the world’s political stage, and it will be as Christ himself had said, “it will be a time of tribulation and persecution that has never seen before, nor would be seen again” (Matt 24:15-16, 21-22 Daniel 12:1). The events yet to come are unimaginable, but as the bible itself says, those days will be cut short on account of the holy ones, the remnant, and will conclude on Christ's arrival to judge all things and to execute the judgements of God (Mark 13:20 Matthew 24:30 Revelation 11:15).

From the appearance of the last two prophets until the conclusion of all things, it will be 7 years.

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Recently, the political leaders gathered in Switzerland to debate the world’s ever declining economical situation. They openly declared, and were united in thought, in that the answer to the current economic situation on the earth would be for the introduction of a One World Bank, as well as a one world currency which would be governed by the now “ageing”, “ailing” and “failing” UN. But, the question that begs to be asked is this, “when this last and final King has supreme control, (as we will see), who then will really be able to buy and sell”? (Revelation 13:15-18). The forum also called for a reconstruction of the “ailing” and “failing” UN to make it a more effective facet of World Governance under the banner of a new “International League of Nations"(compare Daniel 7:25, 12:11).

So, I write concerning a number of very crucial points, so crucial, as these will indeed affect Gods people, his holy ones, and indeed the whole of mankind living on this planet at this time, “the generation that is living now”.

We certainly do live in very drastic times, times which are becoming ever more difficult to deal with, and they will become even more drastic as time goes on, until “the time of end” finally, like a thief, arrives upon us, and the present system we now live under, as governed by Britain and America, collapses and the last world king rises to supreme power (Revelation 16:15 I Thessalonians 5:2 Matt 24:6).

But let us look at these events in more detail which we are yet to witness, events which will concur that the conclusion of all things have indeed drawn very near, in fact, the time is now, now is the time.

The Wild Beast, or disgusting thing that causes desolation will be set up on, or just prior to the collapse of this present system of things as dominated by Britain and America.
“When will this be, what will be the sign” ?, Daniel is very accurate in his prophecies and we can see that from the prophecy regarding the 70 weeks of years, and he uses virtually the same terms of reference to point out what we should look for when this period of the end is most likely to begin. The book of Daniel, like Ezekiel and Revelation, were books written for the “end time”, and the word “finally” used in (Daniel 7:23), literally means, ”Finally”, “At Last”, “At a point in time when there is just no more” (Langenscheidt Hebrew-German).
When will these things be? Well Daniel goes on to mention “a time” in which a little horn would rise, that would be larger than all its contemporaries, speak swelling things, and would even humiliate 3 kings, “and then” go on to war against God, his holy ones, and even the Prince of Princes himself”, only to be destroyed himself at the end of the given period of time for him to reign (Daniel 7:8,20-21,24-26).

The Watchtower, or Jehovahs Witnesses, World Wide Church of God,  have since long maintained this to be Great Britain, and that Britain humiliated 3 kings centuries ago. But if so, if that is to be held true, then why didn’t Britain rule all the earth? Certainly, the sun never set on its empire, but as for Britain it has never ruled the world either, and when has Britain ever waged war against God and his holy ones, even the Prince of Princes, only to be destroyed itself? And if it did happen, the there leaves very little to be fulfilled, and little hope or salvation for anyone, but as it is, this prophecy, was written for the end time, a time which is still very future, but near (Daniel 12:4, 9, 8:17, 19).

Rome is the 4th Beast of Daniels prophecy. The Bible accounts in Daniel and Revelation tell us that it has 10 horns, or 10 kings that will arise from it, until the very last horn would arrive, that would not only would humiliate 3 kings, but it would speak swelling things, make itself out to be a god, claiming to do what only the true and Almighty God can do. How blasphemous, no wonder Jehovah will go to war with this disgusting thing of Satan (Mark 13:14 Ezekiel 28:1-3 Isaiah 14:12-14 Psalms 2:3 Revelation 16:3-4)

There have been a succession of Kings since the time of Rome, but these Kings have had no Kingdom, and no real “One World Empire” has ruled since the time of Rome, and the horns, or Kings succeeding, or come out of Rome, well, these Kings do rule, and govern, but for a short time only, until this last little horn would arrive, a horn that would be bigger than all its contemporaries, trampling the all earth and devouring it, it itself being the 8th and final King, that springs from the previous 7.

Its rule will be one of cruelty, and many, including some of Gods people, and indeed his Holy ones will fall and perish as a result of not having this last Kings mark (Daniel 7:23-24 Rev 17:11-13 Rev 11.2 13:5, 15-18 Daniel 12:11 Daniel 3:6).

Jesus himself said, that when we catch sight of this thing standing in a place it ought not to be, then we should flee as it would mark a period of persecution and death right down until the “Times of the Nations” being directed by Satan have come to their completion, and Luke is the only book in the Bible with this term of reference (Matt 24.15, Mark 13:14 Luke 21:24).

“But, when will these things be”?, what will be the signs? Daniel tells us quite clearly, “<From time onward of removal of constant feature, and set up of disgusting thing>”, there will be a period of 1290 days. These beginning some 30 days before the mission of the last two witnesses of Jehovah ends.

From time onward of an attack on Gods people, a direct onslaught, a time whereby freedom to worship God will be forbidden. An attack that would continue until the trampling of the people has been completed, or reign of the Wild Beast has come to its conclusion, 1290 days later, those days in Revelation and Daniel say 42 months also, or 3.5 years, or a Time, Times and half a Time which ever way one wants to put it. This is the Great Apostasy as spoken of by Paul, and its by no clergy, but by the Antichrist.


So, it will begin with a “specific action” at a “specific point” in time in the near future, just as the beginning of the 70 weeks of years began with “Going forth of word to restore and rebuild walls of Jerusalem,....until Messiah the leader would arrive”. Exactly When, we cannot be certain, but the kings of this earth have but one idea in mind, and it is to give this Beast and last King power to rule supremely, and woe to those that don’t buckle down to the will of this king that is yet to appear. And from that point of appointment it will be 1260 days until the conclusion of all things. All we have and can go on are the signs of these things.

And it will begin with the demise of the present world powers as dominated by America and Britain, and this demise coincides also with the downfall of Satan from heaven. Satan, the symbolic King of Tyre, and his Kingdom on the earth comes to their end.

This period of rule of Satan and his Wild Beast will be for 42 months only. Satan’s “short time” on earth for which he will very soon be thrown down for, will be of the same duration as that of the Wild Beast, and when Satan does comes down, he does so in great rage, as he knows he will be thrown into his abyss during the 1000 year reign of Christ. And since 1914 it has hardly been a short time. His time will be, the same as that of the Beast, 42 months only. And after these 42 months it won’t be business as usual, but he will be Abyssed, and he knows that his Wild Beast and the false prophet will be destroyed, for that is why he goes off in a great rage to look for the remainder of the holy ones of Jehovah, and some of these will even turn away from Jehovah (Revelation 12:1-12 6:12-17 Daniel 12:11a 7:25 Revelation 13:5 20:1-3)

The death of the two witnesses will mark Satan’s demise and expulsion from heaven, and will mark the beginning of the Wild Beasts rule on earth and will conclude 1260 days later (30 days removal of formal worship of Jehovah + 1260 days of Satan and the Wild Beast = 1290 days (Daniel 12:11a 7:25-26, Revelation 13:5)).

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From the 7th seal to the1st Trumpet there is a period in which there is silence for ½ an hour, then fire is poured out from the very altar of Jehovah itself upon the earth and then the destruction begins by the blowing of the 7 trumpets which bring their respective plagues with them upon those that have received the mark of this last king. So, it seems that there will be a period of false peace and security for 21 months before the concluding days of this last king begins and day of Jehovah actually begins, destruction occurs, right down until the 7th trumpet blows and Armageddon arrives.

The Time is now, Nows the time, so what are you going to do?

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[Elijah returns]

Illa Monasteriense mos non redono they mos tendo quisquam
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I had to erase a few names as it will identify me, and I am still in China. But, this shows their plans to search for, indoctrinate and drill Chinas New Leaders for their role in the NWO.

Okinawa said something to me about corrupt Foreign Office officials and corrupt teachers here in the far east that were pushing NWO stuff, that spurred me on to go a little more daring and push the envelope as it were, and its all true. But, educating Chinas future leaders for what? Only the top 2% of the country can get access to such an education.
I am really glad I pulled out of this programme......


The Ford Foundation: http://www.fordfound.org/Transforming Sexuality/Education/Democracy/Good Governance/Mobilizing Resources......But at what cost?

Rockefeller is also a chief collaborator of it, its also a UN programme : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Foundation

Established in 2008 under the auspices of xxxxxxx University, xxxxxxxx University, and the "Ford Foundation", xxxx is an innovative organization taking a unique approach to eliminating educational inequity in China by "enlisting" the US and China's "most promising future leaders" in the effort. Through the institution of a US-China Teaching Fellows program, xxxx meets the pressing need for exceptional teachers in China's understaffed low-income rural schools, while
fostering a constituency of young leaders positioned to advance the cause of educational equity and effect long-term systemic change.

xxxx is the first and only organization to pair outstanding graduates from top universities in the US and China in a long-term "service" initiative.

[Elijah returns]

Whats more I am British, a Scotsman, and never graduated in the US, but they were giving me a position in leadership over younger graduates. But, it was the wording in the essays I had received, meditation on why the push for learning English language and the american and British cultures.

We see these cultures everywhere now, the yob mentality, american bubble gum culture, and its sad to see how these other cultures are going clean out of existence. As the Chinese say, one world, one dream...............soon it will be, one world, one flag, one currency, and people with no individuality whatsoever, all ships will sail in the same direction. Do you want to live in a world like that where there is no freedom of choice, well there is a freedom of choice, take it or leave it, and if you decide you dont want it, then you have to go.

Dr Dennis Cuddy was really right, its all being standardized, and as others have said todays truths could be tomorrows myths, and I wouldn't be so quick now to throw NLP out of the window, programming people through hypnosis, and this can come through the media and music, any way possible to spread their download and upgrade on a continual basis. Lives being geared around words and phrases which are designed to pro gramme how people think, and if they come across other ideas that are alien, then its like they short circuit, like their programme blanks what they are being confronted with.

But, Winston smith told O'Brien they will never win, but O' Brien poised the question, but what if we quicken the tempo of life............meaning, life is so fast they have no time for reflection to think about what is really going on.

[Elijah returns]

Law 32

Play to People’s Fantasies

The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant.  Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes for disenchantment.  Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert:  Everyone flocks to them. There is great power in tapping into the fantasies of the masses.

http://www2.tech.purdue.edu/cg/Courses/cgt411/covey/48_laws_of_power.htm

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My heart is broken, how can people believe all this garb what they are pushing on to us? I hate waking up everyday now.

[Freeski]

My heart is broken, how can people believe all this garb what they are pushing on to us? I hate waking up everyday now.

Why would you hate waking up? Life is awesome. Be thankful that you've been given a chance to live. Who needs anything more than that?

[Elijah returns]

if you knew, if you could be in my shoes, and know what I know.....I am. as I have said very ill now with a very advanced heart condition, I am posting all my work here and on all Christian websites. Even, if some of you, would have faith the size of a mustard grain that good will come of this oncoming evil, but not through mans efforts, but Gods, but evil son of destruction that is coming, like Judas, will hang himself. But, it will be a time like no other which has been seen on this planet.  Nor, as jesus said, and Daniel, will it ever be seen again. I am a weak man, and hate pain, even that what I have now, and don't want to fail God or Christ when that moment comes, when that do or die moment arrives. You cannot even begin to visualize what is coming upon this earth, and at what cost. My first step is to get out of china, then to go off the radar, in one of the kingdoms that will disobey this NWO that is soon to come, and the bible says 3 kingdoms will disobey him, and they will not bow down to him, but the NWO will go to war with them.

[Okinawa]

Okinawa said something to me about corrupt Foreign Office officials and corrupt teachers here in the far east that were pushing NWO stuff, that spurred me on to go a little more daring and push the envelope as it were, and its all true.

Know the truth, seek the truth, and the truth shall set you free. The truth unlike the lie, does not fear investigation.

The University on the Make http://www.cia-on-campus.org/msu.edu/msu.html
Ramparts, April 1966
Introduction by Stanley K. Sheinbaum

    During the summer of 1958, I cut my vacation short and rushed off to San Francisco to meet the four leading police figures of South Vietnam. Among them they controlled the Saigon police, the national police and the VBI, South Vietnam's equivalent of the FBI.

    Within an hour of their arrival the youngest, a nephew of Ngo Dinh Diem, conspiratorially drew me aside and informed me that one of the others was going to kill the eldest of the group. The story he told possessed plot and counter-plot. In essence, Michigan State University was being used to invite these men to the United States under the auspices of its foreign aid contract in Vietnam. The dirty deed was to be done prophylactically in the States, uncluttered by any complicating factors in Saigon.

    At a time when relations between Diem and the U.S. were already strained, the whole story might have been a trick to embarrass Washington. Or else my informant's facts could have been straight, and failure to take action would have been equally embarrassing. The upshot was some nocturnal maneuvers and a cross-country flight designed to separate the quartet by forcibly hospitalizing the supposed target on the pretext he showed signs of T.B.

    Nothing ever came of the episode. The intended target lived long enough to be executed by Diem's successors for having assassinated a variety of political prisoners himself.

    The question is, why was I, of the Department of Economics at MSU, involved in such ugliness?

    I was coordinator of the Vietnam Project at Michigan State University, and I am no less culpable of the charges I make herein, or those made in the following article, than are any of my former colleagues. Looking back,I am appalled at how supposed intellectuals (aren't academicians supposed to be intellectuals?) could have been so uncritical about what they were doing. There was little discussion and no protest over the cancellation of the 1956 elections. Nor were any of us significantly troubled by the fact that our Project had become a CIA front. (The University is still denying this in an odd mixture of embarrassment and loyalty.) On the campus a pitiful handful of faculty -- usually mavericks and often some of the best teachers -- questioned MSU's role in assisting U.S. foreign policy. (One of these became an enthusiast when the opportunity arose for him to make a leisurely trip to Saigon on behalf of the Project.) From Saigon some professors did write popular and troublesome articles criticizing Diem's oppressions. Good, but even these bold ventures accepted U.S. policy as given with no questions asked.

    The Michigan State professors performed at all levels. They advised on fingerprinting techniques, on bookkeeping, on governmental budgeting and on the very writing of South Vietnam's Constitution. One was even instrumental in choosing the President of South Vietnam. But in all this they never questioned U.S. foreign policy, which had placed them there and which, thereby, they were supporting.

    The following article on MSU's involvement in Vietnam is merely a case study of two critical failures in American education and intellectual life today. The first and more obvious is the diversion of the university away from its functions (and duties) of scholarship and teaching. The second has to do with the failure of the academic intellectual to serve as critic, conscience, ombudsman. Especially in foreign policy, which hence forth will bear heavily on our very way of life, is this failure serious.

    For this failure has left us in a state of drift. We lack historical perspective. We have been conditioned by our social science training not to ask the normative question; we possess neither the inclination nor the means with which to question and judge our foreign policy. We have only the capacity to be experts and technicians to serve that policy. This is the tragedy of the Michigan State professors: we were all automatic cold warriors.

    On every university campus, from Harvard to Michigan State, the story is the same. The social science professor, trained (not educated) to avoid the bigger problems, is off campus expertising for his government or industry client whose assumptions he readily adopts. His students are mechanistically led through the same social science materials by a less competent instructor or graduate assistant, and they will be as little exposed to questions of judgment and the application of wisdom as was the professor in the first place.

    No doubt the problem is far more advanced at parvenu institutions like Michigan State than in the Ivy League. The struggle for status, recognition and money is an irresistible lure; the glamorous project is grabbed and sometimes even invented. Within the university only the exceptional faculty member seeks reward and promotions via scholarship and teaching. The easier and even more prestigious route is that of the new-breed professor with his machine-stamped Ph.D. who orbits in the university's stratosphere of institutes, projects and contracts. The student is lowest among his priorities. The work he emphasizes is of dubious value -- by reason of his bias against considerations of value.

    Where is the source of serious intellectual criticism that would help us avoid future Vietnams? Serious ideological controversy is dead and with it the perspective for judgment. Our failure in Vietnam was not one of technical expertise, but rather of historical wisdom. We at Michigan State failed to take a critical stance a decade ago. This was our first responsibility, and our incapacity gave rise to the nightmare described in the following pages.


by Warren Hinckle, Robert Scheer and Sol Stern

    The Vietnamese soldier in the sentry box stood at attention as the chauffeured limousine bearing license plate No.1 from the government motor pool roared down the long driveway of the French villa, picked up speed and screeched off along the road towards the palace where the President was waiting breakfast.

    The year was 1957, the city was Saigon, and the man who lived in the huge villa with its own sentry box was no Batman of the diplomatic corps. He was only Wesley Fishel of East Lansing, Michigan, assistant professor of political science at Michigan State University.

    Peasants who scrambled off the road to make way for the speeding professor might have wondered what was happening, but Fishel's academic compatriots could have no doubt: he was "making it." To make it, in the new world of Big University politics, was no longer as elemental as publishing or perishing. You needed "contact" with the outside world. You had to get a government contract. You had to be an operator. And some people viewed Professor Fishel in South Vietnam in the mid-1950s as the Biggest Operator of them all.

    Some professors on the make have had a bigger press, but none deserves notoriety more than Wesley Fishel. Eugene Burdick, for instance, got a lot of publicity out of his quickie novels and underwater beer commercials on television. But no academician has ever achieved Fishel's distinction in getting his school to come through with enough professors, police experts and guns to secure his friend's dictatorship.

    That was what Wesley Fishel was about on that humid Saigon morning, burning rubber to visit Ngo Dinh Diem. The presidential palace was known informally and with some degree of jealousy by the United States Mission in Saigon as the "breakfast club," because that was where Diem and Fishel and Wolf Ladejinsky, the agricultural expert left over from the New Deal, ate morning melons several times a week and discussed the state of the nation.

    Leland Barrows, the United States Mission chief, was disturbed because he couldn't get to see Diem anywhere near that often. And Fishel was particularly closed-mouthed about his regular morning conferences. Saigon in the early days of the Diem regime was a status-minded city, and Fishel had a bigger villa than Barrows, bigger, even, than the American ambassador's. This residential ranking attests to Fishel's importance as head of the Michigan State University Group in Vietnam, an official university project under contract to Saigon and Washington, with responsibility for the proper functioning of Diem's civil service and his police network, shaping up the 50,000 man "ragamuffin" militia, and supplying guns and ammunition for the city police, the civil guard, the palace police and the dreaded Sûreté -- South Vietnam's version of the FBI. No small task for a group of professors, but one which Michigan State took to as if it were fielding another national championship football team.

    One less-known and perhaps more unpleasant task of the MSU professors was to provide a front for a unit of the United States Central Intelligence Agency. This is a role that both Professor Fishel and Michigan State University have now chosen to forget. It is described here as a specific, if shocking, documentation of the degree of corruption and abject immorality attending a university which puts its academic respectability on lend-lease to American foreign policy.


John A. Hannah, the President as Coach

    The decay of traditional academic principles found in the modern university on the make may well be traced to Harold Stassen and Clark Kerr, but it is best exemplified by President John A. Hannah of Michigan State University. Stassen, in the International Cooperation Administration, was responsible for the concept that American universities should be tapped as "manpower reservoirs" for the extension of Americanism abroad, and Clark Kerr, the embattled Berkeley savant, first came up with the vision of the large university as a "service station" to society. Hannah, an Eisenhower liberal with a penchant for public service, has made these concepts the raison d´être of MSU.

    Hannah, in a blustery way, represents the best traditions of the American Success Story. The son of an Iowa chicken farmer, he took a degree in poultry husbandry from Michigan Agricultural College in 1922. Then, like the football hero who works for 30 years in the college book store because he can't bear to leave the campus, Hannah stayed on in East Lansing. He taught chicken farming, married the president's daughter, got his first taste of public service during a stint with the Department of Agriculture as an NRA administrator, came back to campus and in 1941 succeeded his father-in-law as president.

    MSU, under President Hannah's tutelage, is more service oriented than the average Standard Oil retail outlet. MSU's School of Agriculture aids farmers, its School of Hotel Management turns out educated room clerks, its School of Police Administration graduates cops sophisticated in the social sciences. MSU once offered a Bachelor of Science degree with a major in Mobile Homes under a program financed by the trailer industry.

    But it is in the field of international service that Michigan State has really made it. A shiny new building on campus houses MSU's Center for International Programs -- an edifice built, incidentally, with funds from the administrative allowance on the seven-year Vietnam contract. The University has over 200 faculty members every year out in the boondocks of the world running "educational projects" in 13 countries including Columbia, Taiwan, Turkey, Brazil and Okinawa. Time magazine recently acknowledged the MSU president's extensive influence on the role of American universities overseas by recording Hannah's boast that he can "tap his campus specialists, get an answer to most any question for government or research groups within 30 minutes." Now that is service.

    The list of countries MSU is presently "helping" is lopsided with military dictatorships, but it is not President Hannah's style to question the assignment his country gives him. A former assistant secretary of Defense under General Motors' Charles Wilson, Hannah sees the military, like football, as an important character-building element in life. His view of the modern university is tied to the liberal concept of America as the defender of the free world. That the university must prepare young citizens to assume this proud task, and to be a leader abroad in areas chosen for it by the government, is Hannah's educational credo.

    Despite Hannah's obvious pride in the work his University is doing overseas, he is particularly reticent in discussing its most extensive foreign operation. In a colorful brochure about MSU's international programs, given away free to visitors, there is only one sentence about the Vietnam Project -- despite the fact that this was the largest single project ever undertaken by an American university abroad, a project that spent the incredible amount of 25 million in American taxpayers' dollars giving "technical assistance" to the Republic of South Vietnam under Ngo Dinh Diem. This one-sentence treatment of MSU's Vietnam operation is like reducing to a photo caption in the school yearbook the story of the prize-winning basketball team -- because the coach was caught taking bribes.

    A key to MSU's apparent official desire to forget about the Vietnam experience, dubbed the "Vietnam Adventure" by some professors who worked on the Project, might be found in the unexpressed fear that the details of the University's "cover" for the CIA may become public knowledge. If pressed for an answer, Fishel denies any such role and so does President Hannah. "CIA agents were not knowingly on our staff -- if that were true we didn't know about it," Hannah said recently in his office, sitting beneath the portrait that hangs above his desk. But this assertion of innocence is flatly contradicted by the disclosures of other professors who held administrative positions in the Project. Indeed, the weight of evidence is that MSU finally had to ask the CIA unit to go elsewhere because its presence had become such embarrassing general knowledge in Saigon and East Lansing.

    Economist Stanley K. Sheinbaum, the campus coordinator of MSU's Vietnam operation for three years, was flabbergasted by Hannah's denial: "If John Hannah can make up something like that, he calls into question his competence as a university president," he said.


Wesley Fishel, the Professor as Proconsul

    One indication of Wesley Fishel's power in Saigon in the heyday of the Diem era was provided by a veteran of that period who recently paid a return visit to Saigon. "I heard people talking about what 'Westy' would think," he said, "and for a minute I thought that Wesley was back."

    "Westy," in the Saigon vernacular, is General William Westmoreland, but those in the know used to talk about "Wesley" in the same awe-struck fashion. There is one public reminder of the transfer of power. "Westy" is now running the war out of the same office building, a reconverted apartment house at 137 Pasteur Street, that used to be "Wesley's" headquarters.

    Like most fateful alliances, the Diem-Fishel axis had humble beginnings. The pair met in Tokyo in July of 1950 when each was going nowhere in his chosen field. Diem was an exiled Vietnamese politician with a mandarin personality and a strong sense of predestination but few tangible hopes of assuming power in his war-ravaged country. Fishel was just a run-of-the-mill academician, a young political scientist from UCLA who had written a nondescript thesis on Chinese extra-territoriality and was about to accept a position at Michigan State.

    Both were ambitious, looking for an angle, and Napoleon-sized. Diem was 5' 4" tall; Fishel, a well-built, curly-haired man with the stance of a bantam rooster, appears to be about the same size. The men became friends and a relationship developed by extensive correspondence over the ensuing year. They exchanged favors early. Fishel had his friend appointed consultant to Michigan State's Governmental Research Bureau and helped arrange a long stay in the United States, where Diem picked up substantial backing among prominent Americans from Cardinal Spellman to Senator Mike Mansfield [Ramparts, July 1965]. In return, Diem in 1952 asked the French to let Michigan State furnish technical aid to Vietnam at United States expense, but the French refused.

    Fishel, however, had ultimate faith. An East Lansing colleague recalls that one day Fishel cornered him in the faculty lounge and, with the exuberance of one who could no longer restrain himself, whispered excitedly, "My friend Diem is going to be Premier of Vietnam one of these days!" The prediction was taken lightly; Fishel had neither the swagger nor the stripes of a kingmaker.

    But when Diem was named Premier in July 1954, one of his first official acts was to request Washington to send Wesley to Saigon to advise him. Fishel arrived within weeks, and just weeks later Diem asked for the second time that MSU set up a technical assistance program in Vietnam. The request, this time, had smooth sailing.

    With Fishel already in Saigon, there was virtually no one on the East Lansing campus with any knowledge about Vietnam when Diem's assistance request was relayed through official Washington channels. President Hannah, not one to let the possibility of a substantial contract go by, tapped four faculty members for an "inspection team" and put them on a plane to Saigon in almost whirlwind fashion.

    The four were Arthur Brandstatter, an ex-MSU football hero who now heads the Police Administration School; James Dennison, the University's public relations man; Edward Weidener, then chairman of the Political Science Department; and Economics Department Chairman Charles Killingsworth. None of these men had any experience in academic or technical assistance roles overseas, nor did they have any expertise in Far Eastern affairs, a deficiency they attempted to repair by reading newspaper clippings about Vietnam during the plane ride. The first time they met as a group was when they fastened their seat belts.

    Saigon was a city in ferment in September 1954, when MSU's "inspection team" arrived. Diem was nominally in power, but he had no real support except among a small number of middle-class Catholics and Saigon merchants. The French were preparing to pull out, the Saigon police were controlled by the Binh Xuyen pirate sect, the private armies of the religious sects were in substantial control of the Vietnamese lowlands, the Vietnamese Army was in fledgling revolt against Diem, and the civil service machinery was in a state of stagnation.

    The professors found their colleague Fishel and General Edward Lansdale of the CIA maneuvering furiously to consolidate Diem's support, an effort that culminated in the endorsement of Diem by the United States Security Council in the spring of 1955. The professors also learned that Diem was suspicious of the members of the United States Mission in Saigon, many of whom, he felt, held pro-French sentiments. The one American Diem really trusted was Wesley Fishel, and this trust was reflected two weeks later when the MSU inspection team returned to East Lansing and recommended a massive technical assistance contract, unprecedented in the history of university operations overseas. This contract committed Michigan State to do everything for Diem, from training his police to writing his Constitution.

    Contract negotiations bogged down over technical matters, but the jam was broken in the early spring of 1955 by a telephone call from Washington to Hannah requesting that the red tape be cut and MSU involve itself in Vietnam -- in a hurry. Fishel once indicated in an interview that the request came from former Vice President Nixon, but he now denies this, and so does President Hannah. The phone call, Hannah told the Detroit News, came from an authority "even higher than Nixon." This leaves a choice of John Foster Dulles; his brother, CIA chief Allen Dulles; or Eisenhower himself. At any rate, President Hannah did his duty as he saw it. The first MSU professors joined Wesley Fishel in Saigon in late May of 1955.

    In 1956 Fishel abandoned his role as "advisor" to Diem, and assumed the title of Chief of Mission of the MSU Group. For the next four years, he was the most important American in Vietnam. "Wesley was the closest thing to a proconsul that Saigon had," said one of the MSU professors. The assistant professor of political science entertained frequently and lavishly in his opulent villa, and if his parties got a little out of hand the Saigon police obliged by cordoning off the street. No professor had ever made it so big; in the academic world, Fishel was sovereign.

    But if the proconsul lived well, so did his lieutenants. East Lansing is hardly a midwestern Paris, and for most of the professors the more exotic and free-wheeling life in Saigon was the closest thing to the high life they had known. Academicians and their families, at first a little uncomfortable, assumed the easy ways of the former French colonial masters. They moved into spacious, air-conditioned villas, rent-free, in the old French section of Saigon, bought the better Scotches at the American commissary at $2 a bottle, hired servants at $30 a month, were invited to all the better cocktail parties because they knew "Wesley," went tiger hunting for laughs and, with various "hardship" and "incentive" salary hikes, made close to double their normal salaries. (A professor earning $9000 for teaching class at East Lansing got $16,500 a year for "advising" in Vietnam -- tax free.)

    The "Vietnam Adventure" also did wonders for the professors' tenure. Despite the activist nature of their work in Vietnam and the lack of any substantial scholarly research during the Project, two-thirds of the MSU faculty who went to Saigon got promotions either during their tour of duty or within a year of their return. Professor Fishel, in particular, scored points. His published work was virtually nonexistent and he was absent from his classes for years at a time. But in 1957 MSU promoted him to the rank of full professor.


Hear-No-CIA, See-No-CIA

    Central Intelligence Agency men were hidden within the ranks of the Michigan State University professors. They were all listed as members of the MSU Project staff and were formally appointed by the University Board of Trustees. Several of the CIA men were given academic rank and were paid by the University Project.

    The CIA agents' instructions were to engage in counterespionage and counterintelligence. Their "cover" was within the police administration division of the Michigan State Group. The CIA unit was self-contained and appeared on an official organization chart of the MSU Project as "VBI Internal Security Section." This five-man team was the largest section within the police administration division of the MSU Vietnam operation. The police administration division in turn was by far the largest of the three divisions of MSUG.

    "VBI" was Michigan State shorthand for "Vietnamese Bureau of Investigation," the new name the professors had given the old Sûreté, the Vietnamese special police. The head of the "Internal Security Section" of the VBI under the Michigan State operation was Raymond Babineau who was in Saigon from the outset of the MSU Project. The other men were hired later by the University and listed on its staff chart as "Police Administration Specialists." All four -- Douglas Beed, William Jones, Daniel Smith and Arthur Stein -- gave their previous employment as either "investigator" or "records specialist" in the Department of the Army.

    The CIA contingent, despite the continued denials of Fishel and Hannah, was identified by two former Project officials -- Stanley Sheinbaum and Professor Robert Scigliano, an MSU political scientist who was assistant project chief of the MSU Vietnam Group from 1957-1959. It is also confirmed, in writing, by Scigliano and Professor Guy H. Fox, a former MSU Project chief, in a book titled Technical Assistance in Vietnam: The Michigan State University Experience, published by Praeger in 1965.

    Sheinbaum, as part of his duties as campus coordinator, hired Stein, Smith and Jones. At the time, all he knew about the men was that they came from the "Department of the Army." Sheinbaum recalls that he was proceeding to investigate the backgrounds of the three applicants before accepting them when he was told "that it wouldn't be necessary to check out these guys." The message came from Professor Ralph Smuckler, a former Vietnam Project head.

    Sheinbaum said he was on the job for 18 months before he was taken into the administration's confidence and told about the CIA men. "Smuckler pulled me aside one day and told me that I should know that these CIA guys were there, but that we didn't talk about them," he said.

    Professor Scigliano's first brush with the CIA came during his first meeting with the police advisory group in Saigon. He said that Babineau, whom he knew from the organizational chart as head of the VBI Internal Security, was introduced as a CIA man. The other CIA agents were also introduced, and Babineau made a short speech in which he expressed hope that the professors and his people would get along well. Scigliano recalls Babineau saying, "We hope we don't get in your way."

    A professor and his wife became friends with one of the CIA men and his wife, and the couples often dined together. "We talked about books and music," he said, but there was an unspoken rule that they would never mention the CIA. The entire unit operated on an identical hear-no-CIA, see-no-CIA basis. They worked out of offices in one corner of the police administration floor of the beige, converted apartment building that housed the MSU Project. The CIA men came in early in the morning, stayed for about an hour and then locked their offices and left for the day. They all drove their own cars and their French was the most fluent on the Project.

    If the CIA men got nothing else from their fraternization with Michigan State University, they became the first persons in the spy business to gain academic recognition. "Some of the CIA guys attained faculty status at MSU -- some as lecturers, some as assistant professors, depending on their salaries. I know, because I remember signing the papers that gave them faculty rank," Sheinbaum said.

    The CIA unit operated within its Michigan State "cover" until 1959. Scigliano and Fox state in their book, in what must rank as one of the more terse statements of the decade: "USOM [United States Operations Mission] also absorbed at this time [1959] the CIA unit that had been operating within MSUG [Michigan State University Group]."

    In plain language, Michigan State threw the CIA men out. One of the principal factors leading to the MSU decision was that by 1959 just about everybody in the know was cognizant of the CIA operation. This was not only embarrassing to the legitimate professors, but it served to taint the reputation of the limited amount of solid academic work that was done during the Project. For instance, an anthropologist working far out in the Vietnamese flatlands was flabbergasted to find a local police chief interrupt his work on the grounds that he was digging up bones on behalf of the United States Central Intelligence Agency. The decision to terminate the CIA unit was brought to Professor Scigliano by Smuckler. Babineau was not in Saigon at the time, so Professor Scigliano gave Jones the bad news. He recalls that Jones was "quite upset," as was the United States Mission which wanted the CIA unit to stay right where it was -- sheltered by the groves of academe.

    Within weeks, the entire "VBI Internal Security Section" had moved over to the offices of the United States Mission to operate, presumably, more in the open. By 1959, the United States was making little pretense of following the Geneva Accords anyway.


Academics in Armored Cars

    In the Spring of 1955, Diem gained control of the Army. The United States, which was (and still is) providing the entire South Vietnam Army payroll, said it wouldn't give out any more checks unless the Army played ball with our boy. Diem then used the Army to crush the sect that had controlled the Saigon police and elements of the far-flung Sûreté. The gargantuan task of rebuilding the entire Vietnam police apparatus, from traffic cop to "interrogation expert," as a loyal agency of the Diem government then fell to Michigan State University.

    Diem, lacking popular support, could only retain power through an effective police and security network. The American Embassy urgently signaled the MSU contingent to concentrate on this problem, and, like good team players from a school with a proud football tradition, the professors went along.

    The professors not only trained Diem's security forces but, in the early years of the Project, actually supplied them with guns and ammunition. In doing so, the East Lansing contingent helped to secure Diem's dictatorship and to provide the base and the arms for the "secret police" which were to make Madame Nhu and her brother infamous.

    If not academic, the professors were at least professional. Many supplies -- revolvers, riot guns, ammunition, tear gas, jeeps, handcuffs, radios -- were requisitioned by the East Lansing School of Police Administration from stocks left over from America's aid to the French Expeditionary Corps. These supplies were then turned over to the Vietnamese who would strive to achieve Diem's own form of "consensus" government -- a consensus gained largely by hauling the dissenters off to jail. Despite the largess left by the French, the professors found it necessary to order some $15 million in additional "equipment" from the United States Mission.


Listen to some of the official progress reports sent home to East Lansing by the professors:

    November 8, 1955: "During the month of October we received notice of Washington's approval of the recommended expanded police program. . . . Conferences were held at USOM on October 10 and the Embassy on October 23 and 24, trying to coordinate Internal Security Operations in Vietnam in which our government has an interest."

    April 17, 1956: "The training of the commando squads of Saigon-Cholon police in riot control formations has continued during the month. . . . A report on riots and unlawful assembly is nearing completion.

    June 5, 1957: "Training of the Presidential Security Guard in revolver shooting began during the month. Thirty-four VBI agents completed the revolver course."

    September 11, 1957: "Eight hundred pairs of Peerless handcuffs arrived in Saigon, but distribution is being delayed pending arrival of 400 additional cuffs."

    February 17, 1958: "The training of 125 military and Civil Guard fingerprint technicians at the VBI proceeds satisfactorily. The Palace Guard is being put through another class in revolver training, with 58 men receiving instruction. Forty members of the VBI completed firearm training."

    As befits a university project, many of the professors indulged in their academic specialties. Ralph Turner, a professor of police administration, feels that one of the Project's most singular achievements was the program whereby every Vietnamese citizen would he given an identification card -- with a special American touch. The cards were laminated so the poor, plasticless Viet Cong would have difficulty forging them.

    Dean Brandstatter did not move lock, stock and pistol to Saigon, but he managed frequent "inspection trips" -- as did some 11 of the University officials, including President Hannah, all of course at government expense. Brandstatter, a former military policeman, utilized his expertise to immediate effect during one of his first trips. Rumors of a coup against Diem were escalating, and the East Lansing official personally inspected the Palace Guard to see that they had enough guns to meet the threat.

    Brandstatter, a large, jovial man in his early fifties, and a devoted follower of MSU's football fortunes, played talent scout for the police operation. The services that the MSU team was called upon to perform for Diem's security apparatus were so esoteric that even its heralded School of Police Administration wasn't up to the job. Brandstatter had to recruit specially trained cops from all over the country. Fingerprint experts, small arms experts and intelligence experts came from the Detroit police force, the New York police force, the FBI and even the Department of Defense. Other professors, doing civil service work, felt a little left out and labeled the onslaught of police experts "mercenaries." This might seem a little unkind, but the term seems somewhat applicable since, at one point in the Project, only four of the 33 police advisors had roots at the Michigan campus; the others were nomads. The Project, of course, still bore the name -- or the "cover" -- of the MSUG, since these "mercenaries" were all put on the MSU payroll and provided with faculty status. In the action-filled world of the service station university, not only do the professors become activists, but the cops aspire to professorships.


Decline and Fall

    Ngo Dinh Diem was a nice man to buy guns for, but in other areas of human endeavor, the professors discovered that he could be a tough man to do business with. Even Wolf Ladejinsky, who broke bread regularly with Diem, was subject to occasional indignities. When an issue of the New Republic appeared in Saigon containing an article mildly critical of the Diem regime, the President sent Ladejinsky packing off from the palace to buy up all the copies from the dozen English language kiosks in Saigon.

    The game in Saigon was to cater to Diem's pettiness and paranoia, and for the most part the men from Michigan State played it. There appeared to be a conscious effort within the Project administration to prepare reports pleasing, or at least palatable, to the President. Milton Taylor, an MSU economics professor who went to Vietnam as a tax advisor, said that his reports were often rewritten by the Project head. When he questioned this practice he was told that there were "higher considerations" at stake; other universities were in hot pursuit of the juicy Vietnam contract.

    It became necessary to forsake principles for the good of the Project. At times, in the Saigon of the late 1950s, that must have been difficult. Professor Adrian Jaffe of the MSU English Department, one of the most persistent critics of his University's "Vietnam Adventure," recalls some vivid street scenes. Each morning, men, and more often than not women and children, were hauled out of the jail directly across from his office at the Faculty of Letters of the University of Saigon, handcuffed, thrown into a van, and driven away to an island concentration camp known as a sort of Devil's Island à la Diem. Professors in the Project, because of their intimacy with the Vietnamese security apparatus, knew this was happening, Jaffe said, but his colleagues said and did nothing.

    The moral question raised by Jaffe is dismissed by many veterans of the Project as "unprofessional." Perhaps more professional was the work of Wesley Fishel, who, as late as the fall of November 1959, wrote an article in the New Leader with the obfuscating title, "Vietnam's One-Man Democratic Rule." The text requires no recounting, except to observe that Fishel uses adjectives for Diem that only Jack Valenti might dare use for Johnson.

    The failure of the MSU professors to bear witness against what are now known to be Diem's outrageous violations of civil liberties raises serious questions about them as men. But their failure as professionals to exercise the traditional role of the independent scholar as critic accounted in large part for the general ignorance of the United States public about the true nature of Diem's regime. Professors, presumed to be men of principle, were on the scene in Vietnam and had to be accepted as the best unprejudiced source of information. David Halberstam, after all, simply could have been mad at Madame Nhu.

    The same disastrous vacuum of information occurred in this country only a decade before when the China experts, almost to a man, were purged as Reds and comsymps, and yahoos were all the public had left to hear.

    In Vietnam, at least, there was a Buddhist monk with the fortitude to burn himself -- and the public suddenly wondered how what they had been reading about Diem for six years could have been so wrong. But the professors, by this time, were long back in East Lansing. The MSU Vietnam Project ended rather abruptly in 1962. The University claims that it terminated the arrangement in the name of academic freedom -- but the truth is, unfortunately, more complex.

    Diem, painfully aware of the slightest criticism, was infuriated by the modicum of critical material published in the United States in the early '60s by veterans of the MSU "experience." Professor Jaffe and economist Milton Taylor wrote an essay for the New Republic in 1961 that set Diem's paranoia percolating. The author dared to suggest that the President rid himself of the Nhus. The contract between Diem and Michigan State stipulated that members of the Project could not use materials gathered on the job "against the security or the interests of Vietnam." In other words, they were to keep quiet. Taylor recalls that many of his colleagues in Vietnam felt he was being "disloyal" in publicly criticizing Diem.

    The President was also miffed that in 1959 MSU had drastically curtailed its police work after being urged by both Diem and the United States Mission to plunge more deeply into paramilitary work than it already had. MSU's reluctance was understandable, since a greater degree of involvement would just about require its professors to shoot off howitzers and drill troops in the jungle.

    Nevertheless, the University genuinely believed that its contract would be renewed in 1962. President Hannah even sent a special envoy, Alfred Seelye, dean of the Business College, to Saigon to smooth things out by telling Diem that the University was prepared to weed out any future troublemakers in the Project by selecting personnel more likely to "write scholarly scientific studies and not sensational journalistic articles." Diem, however, surprised everybody. He was adamant: no more MSU.

    With no deal in sight, the business dean proceeded to make a strong declaration in defense of the academic freedom of MSU professors and beat Diem in announcing that the contract would not be renewed.


The Ruins

    Like a factory that has contracted for a job and then completed it, there is little evidence on the MSU campus that it was ever involved in Vietnam. Thousands of pages of mimeographed reports and documents sent from Saigon have been piled haphazardly in out-of-the-way files in the University library, uncatalogued and unused. MSU has not a single course, not even a study program, to show for its six years in Vietnam.

    Professor Wesley Fishel still flies in and out of East Lansing, but now he goes to Washington and advises the administration on Vietnam, a role which allows him to visit Saigon occasionally -- where he has the look of a man who would like another try. But there is nothing for him to do. Fishel has been careful to exclude the infamous New Leader article from the otherwise thorough 64-page bibliography on Vietnam and Southeast Asia which he distributes to his students.

    MSU is still big on police. There are, literally, policemen all over the campus, almost beyond the wildest expansion of the human retina. There are the campus police -- a complement of roughly 35 men in blue uniforms. Then there are the professors and visiting firemen at the School of Police Administration. Finally, it is hard to find a parking spot on campus since so many police cars are occupying the stalls; state police headquarters adjoins MSU.

    With all this protection, the University officials should feel safe. But they do not. President Hannah has lately been publicly worried about the possibilities of what he terms a "Berkeley-style" revolt. The vice-president of student affairs bluntly stated that MSU had been "selected" as the "next Berkeley." Hannah, fearful of "outside agitators," has suggested that there is an "apparatus" at work on campus that is a "tool for international communism." The University police have a special detail charged with keeping tabs on student political activities, especially anything "radical." Several years ago a member of this "Red squad" endeared himself to the student daily newspaper by trapping homosexuals in a state-built bathroom.

    These conditions would be sufficient enough for the light-hearted to suggest that MSU is a Lilliputian police state, but that is silly. Professor Alfred Meyer of the Political Science Department, during his course on the Soviet political system, always gets a good laugh by telling the students to take a good look around campus if they want to know what the Soviet system is like.

    Hannah's concern over Berkeley is more than apocryphal. If the Berkeley experience meant any one thing, it meant that the University wasn't doing its job. It had lost its sense of purpose; it no longer had meaning to the students. In that sense East Lansing is, assuredly, another Berkeley. The university on the make has little time for nonconforming students and rarely enough for conforming students. Its service function is the first priority. The students are, in Clark Kerr's idiom, only the "raw material" that has to be processed. That was the cause of the Berkeley revolt, and the ingredients are available in excess portions at Michigan State.

    Acting dean of international programs, Ralph T. Smuckler, is perhaps the one person at MSU who got something lasting out of the "Vietnam Adventure." He derived an ideology, and it is an ideology that goes Clark Kerr one better. Smuckler sees the future of the social sciences in the world-wide scope of the "action" projects he is now directing -- in Formosa as he did in Vietnam. "Classroom teaching is a tame business," said Smuckler, "and anybody who doesn't see how his discipline fits into the overseas operations of the University is already obsolete."

    To question the assumption that the academician of tomorrow must be an operator is to ask but part of the essential question about MSU's "Vietnam Adventure." And to ask whether the University officials are liars, or whether the MSU Project broke the spirit of the Geneva Accords, is also neglecting the primary question.

    The essential query, which must be asked before the discussion of Michigan State's behavior can be put into any rational perspective, is this: what the hell is a university doing buying guns, anyway?

This was written 40 plus years ago. Imagine what these foreign civil service agents are doing in international programs today, and how they are covering their tracks.

[kushfiend]

Yeah China is a shit hole, but then, so is America.  The politicians here love China, they can't get enough of you guys, it's all China this and China that, what will China think of this, and they are always worrying about appeasing the corrupt, communist Chinese govt.

I wonder why?  Obama is the biggest communist mankind has ever seen.  Bigger than Mao, bigger than Lenin, hell, I think he's gonna be bigger than Joseph Stalin himself!  Why?  because not only has he somehow duped the whole world into blindly trusting him, but he is systematically and very efficiently dismantling the entire United States' infrastructre.  Now we have no reserve army, no reserve currency, and we are trillions and trillions in debt.  It's all about the destruction of the United States to give rise the New World Order.  Even Hitler couldn't defeat the US, but we have been defeated from within.  Even now, after all the bail outs, all the lies and deceipt, even as his national death-care plan crumbles before him, ppl in America still love Obama for the most part.

That's the thing, they've taught our society how to not only enjoy the pain our so called "leaders" inflict upon us, but to beg them for more!  For example, our local govt leaders must beg the Federal Govt for bail out money, which is just the tax money they sent to the fed govt in the first place!!

The whole system is cockeyed.  We truly are the new Rome, and just like Rome, the more we expand our stupid empire, the weaker it becomes.  America is super vulnerable in every way, military, finance, morals, you name it.  Our enemies know this, they know we are trapped in endless wars in the middle east.  Soon someone is going to spark the powder keg, and just like in WW1, everyone's entangling alliances will drag them into conflict.

I must say your end of times timeline really confused me.  I can't ever make sense of what seal goes where, but I imagine that 9/11 must have been one of the seals of revelation.  An event that was witnessed by the world, that changed everyone's lives forever, that was a seal for sure.

9/11 was what started this age of mass deception

[Okinawa]

9/11 was what started this age of mass deception

I book I found may give some additional insight into what is going on

China's Entrance into the Family of Nations: The Diplomatic Phase 1858-1880 by Immanuel C. Y. Hsu (Published in 1960 by Harvard University Press.)

This book primarily covers official negotiations between East Asian Family of Nations and the West. But also covers European alliances, colonial powers, international affairs, sovereignty, and America's and Japan's rise to superpower status.