AVATAR : "Triumph of the Will" for the NWO Green Nazis

[chris jones]

It is never the images themselves, it is the pain of realizing that you want something more from life, while at the same time you can not even imagine how this more would look like in the real world, you can not even name the object of your desire because you do not have the vocabulary to do so.
Suddenly, you get a definitive image of an aspect of that "something more" (tribal society and pristine nature in Avatar, the high school friendship and personal power in Harry Potter, the wise order of the knights in Star Wars) and your desire attaches itself to it because it is the only way how your mind can conceptualize the inner pain of not having what it desperately wishes for.

The Pandora Syndrom is a proof that we are yet human, that there is yet a part in those people that cares. It is also a proof that our society is rotten to the core because it's vocabulary does not even allow us to formulate our innermost desires.

Please keep in mind that I am NOT saying that our innermost desire is to be tall blue giants, no. Our innermost desire is to experience and grow, to be heroes (of our own tale, not just extras) in the broadest sense of the word. This is what stories of all ages communicate to us - the ideal of a Hero's Journey (not just the archetypal myth, there are infinite variations); and what we have forgotten is that a Hero's Journey is ultimately only a reflection of what each and every one of us needs, though each has his or her own form of it's expression.

Our society has convinced us that we are not heroes of our stories, that the best we can hope for is the "good life" (find a wife, have kids, go to work, grow old, die), which is what extras do; our society has even convinced us that we can not even aspire to be heroes, that it "isn't proper;" and we have forgotten that "not being proper" is the first thing that separates heroes from normal people.

Hi

I have been back and forth on this issue.

1. I don't like in the FK least Camero's Bio. said it before.
2. I saw the flick, and it to me was a fantasy focusing on bigcorps using our military for profit, and plight of the Vet, and genocide.
   Thats my take , like it or lump it. My honest opinion!!
I have no idea what this is doing to kids, I have read the posts and an amazed. I'm not a kid,just an old fogy,, I have no idea how this could cause suicides or depresion,mental illness, etc.
THOUGH-My alarm bell is ringing,people I respect on this site have made their stand on this. 
 Am I the only guy that saw this and left with the oppinion it was parralell in a fantasy form to our regimes genociding. The reason I mention this is that my mindset is strictly anti domination, anti war, etc. For so many a year this has been my focus.
   Tell me, is this targeting kids, is that the take her, adults are not effected by this or what.  It goes beyond my comprehension no one has seen this and compared this to thé present days abomination.
  No one has to drop their jaw, or get upset here. This is just an oppinion and a question. Old folks- no deal, Kids mind FKed??? I'm attempting to keep an open mind here!!
     
 
   

[JIMI]

I never have & i never will look to Hollywood expecting Truth & revelations. It aint going to happen. The Illuminati control Hollywood. Hollywood deals in fiction.

[ekimdrachir]

Cameron made an amazing film, but its so amazing that people realize how much they hate themselves and their way of life. As new as it might be to those people, to us infowarriors its old news, we've long faced the identity crisis as we watch videos of predator bombings, people being shot, puppies being thrown off cliffs, war, robberies, domestic violence, and we are all sick and tired of what this world has become. We all agree that we do need to change. We can't have Pandora, and we don't want the corporate machine taking us across the galaxy in a tin can. We need everyones perspective on this situation because it is a matter of self reflection. I think its a good thing these kids are waking up and realizing they don't like our world. Thats great! It will inspire them to change. Better than nothing, better than just continuing as zombies. Cameron is being forced to make a sequel, to make another billion or two dollars in this rough economy. There will be plenty of fans. The next one will be the next war against the humans, no doubt, when infantry comes from Earth wonderng where their unobtanium is. I really hope the kids can be smart enough to figure this out, and not just obsess over "Navi" style women like Zoe Saldana.





Its the blue thats captivating though, and the yellow cat-eyes.

[chris jones]

I never have & i never will look to Hollywood expecting Truth & revelations. It aint going to happen. The Illuminati control Hollywood. Hollywood deals in fiction.

Hi Jimi.
 No debate, but can you answer my question?
Ok, this is fiction, but my question is, has no one seen this and compared this to our present day abomination.
 I don't profess to be searching for truth and revelation from hollywood, on this site though, yes I do, tons of truth.

That asside, the theme of this fantasy is what? No one picked up on Bigcorp domination whatsoever, no camparison made of todays FK show.
 Ya know what bothers me Jimmi, its the feeling I get when I read the remark, Hollwood or films are all Illuminati. Are they realy?? each and every film made is Illuminati, mind control , propaganda.
That remark chills me.
Granted most films are just hype to make money, thats what the majority of film makers desire, make a hit, profit$$.

My point is simply that I would be saddened to see that mindset<ALL_Illuminati, each and every one begin.
I have seen a few flicks that are eye openers, books too.
 Categorizing 100% well,It kinda restricts ones observations don't you think?
  

[ekimdrachir]

Hi Jimi.
 No debate, but can you answer my question?
Ok, this is fiction, but my question is, has no one seen this and compared this to our present day abomination.
 I don't profess to be searching for truth and revelation from hollywood, on this site though, yes I do, tons of truth.

That asside, the theme of this fantasy is what? No one picked up on Bigcorp domination whatsoever, no camparison made of todays FK show.
 Ya know what bothers me Jimmi, its the feeling I get when I read the remark, Hollwood or films are all Illuminati. Are they realy?? each and every film made is Illuminati, mind control , propaganda.
That remark chills me.
Granted most films are just hype to make money, thats what the majority of film makers desire, make a hit, profit$$.

My point is simply that I would be saddened to see that mindset<ALL_Illuminati, each and every one begin.
I have seen a few flicks that are eye openers, books too.
 Categorizing 100% well,It kinda restricts ones observations don't you think?
 

Heres some thought for your post. What is "Illuminati" ? We already know that the lower levels of the pyramid, basically all of them, are NOT illuminati. They think they are part of the club, but as you see on the dollar bill, the capstone is removed.

So the illuminati are either very very smart people who have put themselves outside the system, they are angels / demons, or theyre dead and the pyramid has no capstone.

So what we have is the system of retarded fuks all trying to manipulate the masses
when nobody really knows.

And since this seems to be the case, and that everyone is competing to be "top dog" among the mutts, the conspiracy is that some know what others dont. Those who do know are Enlightened, or Illuminated. So what has actually happened, it seems, is that the very people who are so opposed to the idea of an illuminated class, have become it!

Because we know, what the masses dont. We understand, where some would only see coincidence. We have become the monster we have set out to destroy!

Furthermore, because people are inherently good, and require severe trauma to become accustomed to evil, and because all people intend to do good, even through evil, it seems to me that most of the real illuminati think they are actually lightworkers.

And we, the foolish ignorant, even the educated of the ignorant, cannot really comprehend as these lightworkers do, the extent to which good and evil truly effect this world. They are, despite the evil things they may do, doing more good than the foolish could with crumbs of truth.

That being said, is the ends worth the means? My circular logic fails me.

[lord edward coke]

THE OCCULT AND HOLIDAY EYE CANDY -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Om_Myyp78


It's the time of year we celebrate the fact that God sent His Son to earth as a humble baby. When it comes to entertainment, though, the occult is trying hard to take over.

It's hard to escape it. The newest Twlight movie is plastered all over Burger King and the kids get Avatar action figures in their Happy Meals at McDonalds. Children big and small are excited about going to see The Princess and the Frog, and the trailer for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part I is already available, even though the movie is not scheduled to come out until November 2010. From Bewitched to the Wizards of Waverly Place, television has long treated witchcraft with humor…. And in Christmas movie reruns, Jack the Pumpkin King almost ruins Christmas again this year by tying up Santa Claus. (It's amazing how many Christmas movies replay the broken record plotline in which Christmas almost doesn't arrive because Santa is hindered from bringing presents.  At least Dr. Seuss got that one right.)

The occult is getting increasingly more accepted in our world, and not only at Halloween. It's vital that we take care in what we allow ourselves and our children to be exposed to, especially since we know there is a very real spiritual battle going on in this world.

Avatar opened in theaters this weekend, complete with beautiful forest scenes where breathtakingly massive trees catch the heart and unique, lithe creatures worship the pantheistic earth goddess Eywa. The special effects are outstanding, and when an absolutely vast, huge, magnificent tree crashes in the forest, you can feel the room shake with it. Unfortunately, the movie is riddled with pagan themes. Goddess worshiping aliens who are at one with nature are considered noble and good. Greedy, godessless, capitalist humans are the bad guys.  An earth worshiping worldview could hardly be stronger.

The Princess and the Frog has been out since the day before Thanksgiving, and is unfortunately even more overt in its occultism than Disney's normal fare. The idea is fun – the girl who kisses the frog prince gets turned into a frog herself. The movie is set in Louisiana, though, so of course there is a voodoo practicing witch doctor, one Doctor Facilier, who summons the dead, uses tarot cards and spells and has shadow creatures do his bidding. At least this frightening person is the "bad" guy, and his practices are easily equated with danger and evil. But, of course Jesus isn't the hero who saves the main characters from this vile person. Disney never seems to make Jesus the hero. No, the fairy grandmother character, Mama Odie, also resorts to forms of magic in helping the children and fighting the bad guy.

Disney's A Christmas Carol is certainly no dry, tiresome regurgitation of the Dickens classic. Even though we've all heard the story several dozen times, this newest version with Jim Carrey as Ebenezer Scrooge grabs its viewers with the same kind of wonderful animated technology we saw in The Polar Express. Disney even relents and Christ-honoring Christmas songs play in the background as Scrooge flies over a wintery London. The depictions of ghosts can be pretty frightening at times and parents should preview the movie before letting their children watch it.

While it is very well done, there's something missing in the Dickens story. Tiny Tim still says, "God bless us every one," at the end, but Scrooge is not saved in the end by falling on his knees before the Son of God whose birth is celebrated at Christmas. No, he's saved by honoring the spirit of Christmas, which apparently is all about generosity and loving one's neighbor. Those things are fine and we appreciate that Scrooge has repented this year (as he has every year since 1843), but it's always disappointing that Scrooge in the end depends on his works and not on the Savior for his salvation.

On the other hand, a rising number of quality Christ-honoring movies have been making their way onto the big screen.  The Blind Side tells the true story of a homeless young man who is taken in by a Christian family and goes on to play star-quality football. (The real Michael Oher currently plays left tackle for the Baltimore Ravens.)  The Blind Side deserves its PG-13 rating for some of its content, but the story demonstrates true Biblical values and a Christian worldview.

We do enjoy a good movie around here, but it is easy to get caught up in the eye candy that is so readily available in movies and television, especially at this time of year when we have a little bit of time off from school and work. Yet, we need to be very careful to guard our hearts and protect our minds from the philosophies that the world makes look so good. We want the Word and Spirit of God to shape our thoughts and actions, and that means taking great caution in the things we let our little eyes see.

[Brocke]

Porn industry 'driving future of 3D TV'

    * From correspondents in Las Vegas
    * From: AFP
    * January 11, 2010 12:52PM

Magician and snake handler Maria "SnakeBabe" Gara (R) - also owner of the first legal adult shop for the iPhone, Sex App Shop - with James "gspotlixalot" Duncan at the the 2010 AVN Adult Entertainment Expo in Las Vegas. Picture: AFP Source: AFP

THE porn industry - notorious for helping new technologies access the home - is embracing 3D mania stoked by stunning new television sets and the blockbuster film "Avatar".

An unprecedented exclusive online 3D porn library has been unveiled by Bad Girls In 3D at the AVN Adult Entertainment Expo over the weekend in Las Vegas, boasting a first-of-a-kind "turnkey digital 3D viewing system."

"For several decades, the adult entertainment industry has driven adoption of every significant new entertainment delivery system - the VHS home-video craze in the 1980s, the satellite television mania in the 1990s and the present day internet," said Bad Girls producer Lance Johnson.

"2010 and beyond will be all about 3D."

Adult expo attendees wearing "active shutter glasses" grinned as they immersed themselves in a Bad Girls video displayed in 3D on a giant high-definition TV.

The firm's package consists of a 60-inch (152cm) 3D TV; a compact computer server, and shutter glasses that synch with the screen to trick eyes into viewing in 3D.

The Bad Girls system is priced at $US4000 ($4304), and a subscription to the online video library costs $US20 ($21.54) a month, according to a spokesperson.

The potential of 3D in adult entertainment was proven decades ago by a 1969 soft-core 3D film The Stewardess, which raked in over $29 million in theaters over two years, according to Mr Johnson.

Adult iPhone games

Internet technologies were woven throughout an expo rife with with studios promoting products; barely-clad "talent" signing autographs and posing for pictures, and even a mechanical bull made into a giant phallus.

A True Companion sex robot named "Roxxxy" priced in the thousands of dollars debuted at the show and "Bone Town" was shown off as the world's first action-adventure video game.

"There are some virtual sex games out there, but none that actually have adventure and a storyline to them," said Maximus Baptist VIII of bonetown.com.

"A corporation called The Man Inc. is trying to shut down all the sex and drugs so you have to help the people of Bone Town get rid of The Man."

The game can't be played on consoles because the companies making them target "a PG audience," according to Mr Baptist.

Elsewhere on the show floor, the HotTrix company behind iBeer, iMunchies, and iBug applications for iPhones touted an App Sex Shop devoted to lascivious software for Apple's globally popular smartphones.

"We have a way to bring adult content to the iPhone without jail-breaking, hacking or altering your iPhone in any way," said HotTrix co-owner Steve August.

"Apple would not allow us to use its App Store, so we came up with our own."

More than two million applications, most of them for adult videos or pictures, have been downloaded from the HotTrix shop, according to Mr August.

For the second year in a row, adult entertainment powerhouse Pink Visual saw visits to its mobile video service soar after Christmas as people turned on new iPhones and tapped into porn.

"Mobile has saved our (tail) this year," said Pink distribution operations manager Kim Kysar, noting that the porn industry was not spared during the economic turmoil.

"We took a hit when everyone else took a hit and mobile is making up the difference for us."

Pink Visual unveiled a new tool that lets viewers join virtual porn scenes using augmented reality.

Social networking trends are also being reflected, with an online community launched about a year ago for adult entertainers and their fans.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/d-and-mobile-games-hot-trends-in-adult-entertainment/story-e6frfro0-1225818058546

[NinjaGaijin]

I'm pretty sure it's only 2.5 hours long, but yeah it totally FEELS 3.5 hours long. It would have decent if it was 40 minutes I thought ahah. I wish we would stop talking about it, it gives it power.

As for old vs young, the young have shorter attention spans so while not taking as much in (in a macro sense), they are more observant every second, if the subject matter flashes, whizzes and engages them. This movie is designed for all age groups in even doses for different things. It seems like as a kid, this is the nihilism of Terminator 2 (a film that was for my country restricted to only children 15 and over) but with the enemy being us, the carbon-farting destroyers of the universe.

Ok I gotta stop opening this thread, this movie is seriously not worth the discussion. Give it a couple of months to quiet down and hopefully Jurassic Park 17 will make everyone forget about it.

[SpeakUpFightBack]

This is interesting from the "Home Tree" perspective ... but I am not sure
I agree with all the author has to say:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The Avatar Movie from a Black perspective

Looking at the Avatar movie from the
perspective of the "other world"

By Ezili Danto

http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Avatar-Movie-from-a-Bl-by-Ezili-Danto-100104-843.html


Picture: USAToday.com

   EXCERPT:
    "Once upon a time, trees were sacred things in Haitian/African culture, looked upon as living energies that provided strength to the people. Thus, cutting down trees was relatively a taboo. But these core Africanist values were scorned and desecrated by the influences of Western colonialism and Christian missionaries on traditional Vodun. These core values were uprooted during the anti-Vodun Rejete campaigns (1940-41) as a means for the Catholic Church to get rid of Vodun as its rival religion and philosophy in Haiti and as a way for the US to clear peasant Haitians off lands they wanted to acquire for their agricultural initiatives in Haiti in the 1940s during the post-U.S.-occupation presidency of Elie Lescot (1941-46).


    The Catholic Churches' brutal anti-superstition campaigns in the 1940s, which made it alright to destroy trees that holds up not only the land but a culture, adds to deforestation in Haiti. For, once these core values were broken down and substituted with foreign ideals (senility?) - foreign psychology irrelevant to Haitian survival, things in Haiti for the vast majority, as Chinua Achebe, would put it: began to "fall apart..." (Ezili's HLLN on the Counter-Colonial Narrative on Deforestation, See also - HLLN on the causes of Haiti deforestation and poverty.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Great info......

Has anyone here read 'Speaker of the Dead'?

Its about Earthlings spreading their seed/ways across the universe and eventually coming across a species of tree loving talking pigs. The Earthlings failed to understand the spiritual / life giving nature of the trees.... its been awhile since I read it (circa 2002?), but I walked away from Speaker of the Dead as I did Avatar, realizing that failing to understand reality itself is the failure that leads to all the greed'nams.

I understand the majority opinion here on this movie, which is to say this movie is a trap, pitting two FALSE extremes against each other (tree huggers vs oil thuggers) with no room for alternative viewpoints and solutions, which scream, "C'mon people, the Big Industry Oil thuggers fund the tree huggers. They are working together to advance their common goal of command and control. And we middle earthers are the ones to get a$$ raped."

That said, I thought Avatar COULD BE more than just a Problem-Reaction-Solution propaganda. I found it to be a good 'corporatism is evil' and 'big pharma ain't got squat on nature' and 'property rights are the true hallmark of a free people' ice breaker. Bottom line, Avatar is a better gateway to truth topics than watching Michael Jackson's rapist father dancing on his reality TV show.

4/5 stars.

[NinjaGaijin]

I couldn't get through Speaker for the Dead at all, after 100 pages or so of the initiations, I went a little mental. I tried to pick up the third book in the series, Xenophobe or whatever it was called also, but again could not.

Mostly, I was in love with the first book in the series and urge everyone I know to read it. Ender's Game (should be a movie but there isnt, currently a comic adapation has recently come out).

A lot more of a realistic kind of story than Avatar. I'm still waiting for some big budget Ender's Game movie to come out - and hopefully not totally ruin what could be one of the best sci-fi films ever made.

[SpeakUpFightBack]

I couldn't get through Speaker for the Dead at all, after 100 pages or so of the initiations, I went a little mental. I tried to pick up the third book in the series, Xenophobe or whatever it was called also, but again could not.

Mostly, I was in love with the first book in the series and urge everyone I know to read it. Ender's Game (should be a movie but there isnt, currently a comic adapation has recently come out).

A lot more of a realistic kind of story than Avatar. I'm still waiting for some big budget Ender's Game movie to come out - and hopefully not totally ruin what could be one of the best sci-fi films ever made.

The reading gets deeper and heavier as the series goes along, but it's some of the finest sci-fi / philosophical / morale reading you can find. That said, I'm a Bean man more than an Ender fan and I thought 'Ender's Shadow' was the best in the series. I highly recommend all of Orson Card Scott's work!!!!

"If pigs could vote, the man with the slop bucket would be elected swineherd every time, no matter how much slaughtering he did on the side." - Orson Scott Card

[NinjaGaijin]

what, shadow?? there's a 4th one??

cool!

I did like the whole initiation ritual at the start of Speaker For The Dead, where you must for hours travel on hands and knees following grains back and forth along a wooden floor. That would give anyone a dose of some severe patience hehehe

Personally, I read a single writer at a time where possible, until I get bored with them. Unfortunately at the moment, or rather, 2 years ago when I last looked at written paper (aka NOT the internet.. sad isnt it), I was still reading a most prolific and awesome guy named Neal Stephenson. A lot of people try William Gibson and get turned off. I didn't mind him personally, but after him I moved onto Stephenson and he blew my mind. I got up to the 2nd novel of his historical epic series he has been writing for the past decade or so - I kept getting overdue fines at the library and I haven't paid them off yet so I still can't finish them!

But I can't recommend him enough. Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon, The Big U, Zodiac, The Diamond Age...

[GhostofTsenzei]

  No one has to drop their jaw, or get upset here. This is just an oppinion and a question. Old folks- no deal, Kids mind FKed??? I'm attempting to keep an open mind here!!

I don't think it works that way.  At least not at this point.  However, last I checked the medication of children regardless of their own will (or even the parents in some cases) was only increasing.  This was years ago, but it could be part of it.

However, I'm far, far more inclined to think that any effect on children is simply exaggerated (if not invented).

[NinjaGaijin]

yah I remember when I was younger, I was always a bit more rational than most and would rip on a crap movie, but equally I would also sometimes really get into a film (like Cameron's Aliens) that was action-orientated - leaving the cinema I would be still stuck in that world, transfixed. Running out of the cinema pretending i'm an action guy shooting the badies. But at least they were live action films, this film seems to blur kids perception of reality too much. I guess with so much CGI since I was a kid, 'live action' isn't even that live anymore usually.

[Piltdown Man]

Cameron made an amazing film, but its so amazing that people realize how much they hate themselves and their way of life. As new as it might be to those people, to us infowarriors its old news, we've long faced the identity crisis as we watch videos of predator bombings, people being shot, puppies being thrown off cliffs, war, robberies, domestic violence, and we are all sick and tired of what this world has become. We all agree that we do need to change. We can't have Pandora, and we don't want the corporate machine taking us across the galaxy in a tin can. We need everyones perspective on this situation because it is a matter of self reflection. I think its a good thing these kids are waking up and realizing they don't like our world. Thats great! It will inspire them to change. Better than nothing, better than just continuing as zombies. Cameron is being forced to make a sequel, to make another billion or two dollars in this rough economy. There will be plenty of fans. The next one will be the next war against the humans, no doubt, when infantry comes from Earth wonderng where their unobtanium is. I really hope the kids can be smart enough to figure this out, and not just obsess over "Navi" style women like Zoe Saldana.

 

Its the blue thats captivating though, and the yellow cat-eyes.

dude wake up
you are being played like a cracked violin.
it's GREAT that kids are suicidal and want to escape this world?
it's GREAT that there's gonna be a sequel?

More mind kontrol, my friend. More targeted Mind Kontrol

Why is this so hard to understand?

What would be great would be IF INSTEAD of laying down their $ over and over and going into a blue funk stupor over a half a billion dollar illuminati spectacle, it would be GREAT if they tuned into AJ, or got involved in city council meetings, did some research in the library or on the web about history, the real history. 

What would be GREAT would be if these intelligent, idealistic, unfulfilled kids with all their gifts and all their enormous, untapped potential got some real information and turned the world around.

Trust me, these kids aren't gonna magically start understanding the shadow government, the mechanism of war, greed, global destruction of the individual, occult influence etc ad infinitum by getting a sexy blue frontal lobotomy at their nearest imax theater.

you sound like a cameron/illuminati shill

[Piltdown Man]

yah I remember when I was younger, I was always a bit more rational than most and would rip on a crap movie, but equally I would also sometimes really get into a film (like Cameron's Aliens) that was action-orientated - leaving the cinema I would be still stuck in that world, transfixed. Running out of the cinema pretending i'm an action guy shooting the badies. But at least they were live action films, this film seems to blur kids perception of reality too much. I guess with so much CGI since I was a kid, 'live action' isn't even that live anymore usually.

Cameron and others (but especially Cameron) have been working on mind control for two decades.  Please research his early history with mkultra, his associations with Bush Sr., his experimentation with the blind and voice over technology (subliminals) I've posted it all here in earlier pages.

[GhostofTsenzei]

dude wake up
you are being played like a cracked violin.
it's GREAT that kids are suicidal and want to escape this world?
it's GREAT that there's gonna be a sequel?

That's not what he said and you know it.  It's not fair to attribute that sort of sentiment to ekimdrachir

That said, I agree that this is not the vehicle that would really do a good job of truly waking people up.  Even if I don't agree that it is MK.

Anyway...

Cameron and others (but especially Cameron) have been working on mind control for two decades.  Please research his early history with mkultra, his associations with Bush Sr., his experimentation with the blind and voice over technology (subliminals) I've posted it all here in earlier pages.

Interesting.  I don't think I have the time to look into that at the present, but on the topic of being stuck "in fiction" I think at least part of it depends on the individual.  It's possible that kids are more susceptible, but I think it's more based on individual thresh-holds regardless of age.  I also think it can happen as a result of good story-telling/immersion rather than just subliminal messages and interfering with mental functions.  I couldn't say that Cameron's movies accomplished that level though.

I do know that stories like "The Dark is Rising" "Bone" and to a lesser extent some role-playing experiences (actual, not so much the games) would leave me thinking about the world from characters perspectives, at least enough to have it come through in dreams later, if not immediately recognizable.

*shrug*

YMMV

Interestingly, Avatar did not fit that bill.  At least not for me.

[Piltdown Man]

Great info......

Has anyone here read 'Speaker of the Dead'?

Its about Earthlings spreading their seed/ways across the universe and eventually coming across a species of tree loving talking pigs. The Earthlings failed to understand the spiritual / life giving nature of the trees.... its been awhile since I read it (circa 2002?), but I walked away from Speaker of the Dead as I did Avatar, realizing that failing to understand reality itself is the failure that leads to all the greed'nams.

I understand the majority opinion here on this movie, which is to say this movie is a trap, pitting two FALSE extremes against each other (tree huggers vs oil thuggers) with no room for alternative viewpoints and solutions, which scream, "C'mon people, the Big Industry Oil thuggers fund the tree huggers. They are working together to advance their common goal of command and control. And we middle earthers are the ones to get a$$ raped."

That said, I thought Avatar COULD BE more than just a Problem-Reaction-Solution propaganda. I found it to be a good 'corporatism is evil' and 'big pharma ain't got squat on nature' and 'property rights are the true hallmark of a free people' ice breaker. Bottom line, Avatar is a better gateway to truth topics than watching Michael Jackson's rapist father dancing on his reality TV show.

4/5 stars.

This is starting to sound amazingly like the Two Party line: well we have to vote either Dem or Republican so I'm voting for the lesser of two evils?

WHy even choose this crap? Who said it's either Michael Jackson's father or Avatar?  Why not stay out of the theater and turn off the TV??

Only thing Avatar is a gateway to is more mind kontrol. 

AMazing that you mentioned that leaving Avatar you understood our FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND REALITY is our downfall. 

You got this revelation from a totally unreal projection of digitized, pixelated machine generated illusions?  From a profit motivated psy op light show?

I agree, our failure to understand reality will be our downfall. 

[Piltdown Man]

That's not what he said and you know it.  It's not fair to attribute that sort of sentiment to ekimdrachir

That said, I agree that this is not the vehicle that would really do a good job of truly waking people up.  Even if I don't agree that it is MK.

uh, that's what he said: reread the sentence I put in red.

People: I know I'm being harsh. I know I sound like an a**hole.  I think the stakes are that high.
We have to be really vigilant and careful here.
We can't think we are immune from swallowing the bait.
Danger danger.

Alex is exposing the psy op that is Avatar on his infowars site today: good thing.  Is anyone still worried about what newbies might think?

[NinjaGaijin]

Pilt, exactly, I totally agree.

Locally, a teacher/professor began a letter drop where I live a year ago due to my neighbours development from a block of units into a renovated commerically-operating (in a residential area) serviced apartments. Now even though the originator has moved from the area due to the length and depth of the struggle (and his falling property values), we still maintain an email list roughly 10 strong. It may not sound like much, but I think it is incredible that one person can drop flyers and upon activation, we can over a year co-ordinate the efforts of ten groups of people and their immediates for positive change.

This doesn't happen from watching Avatar I think. It happens from coming on forums like this, or documentary films about the real plights of the world.

As a child, all the Captain Planet I watched didn't do much more than make me remember to turn the power off when I leave the room.

This won't do much more, than set peoples minds towards an agenda.

It won't help anything realistically. Unlike films like Gorillas In The Mist.

I think any kid who lives around here that overheard/was told about this action and understood what was happening, would be growing as a *real*/fulfilling person. They would begin to think and act positively towards the changes they righteously believe in, with good cause and solid ethics. Watching some 3D fluff 10 times about some alien crap is really not going to help you become a better person.

No matter HOW much I loved Aliens (I watched it over 100x as a kid, every month or so), for its many great facets as a seminal sci-fi/action/horror, it never made me question my own existence or expand my mind, NOR did it turn me to suicide.

However being 15 and seeing Terminator 2 really did depress me. But at least it was the threat of nuclear war and artificial life/intelligence, which is a realistic future threat. At least that depression was about the REAL world and how it related to this fantasy story I just saw.

Furthermore, the only film I ever saw twice at the MOVIES when it came out (not being old enough to see Aliens theatrically) was A Nightmare Before Christmas (as I am a huge fan of animated films/shows this was a big film for me) - and I never saw another again multiple times. It's insanely expensive to go to the movies. I never had that sort of money, even when they were comparatively cheaper to go to.

As for your thoughts on Cameron, I would not doubt he is shady. He always LOOKs shady.

Hollywood just plain sucks - your mind, really. In general.

But these films I would jump out of shooting, it was always action crap because I was conditioned that way, my father being in the military and my grandparents having met in WW2 with both being in the airforce in a fairly defensive/just war for Britain against Germany. My father didn't see action in the gulf and was laid off shortly thereafter, so I never saw the realities of war. First I knew my grandparents just war, then I knew of my father who never saw any conflict first hand. It took a long while for me to understand the injustices carried out by the worlds' militaries and to realise that they are just the most deadly puppets. I would never want to give my life for someone else's string to be attached to. So I was predisposed to these films. All tv/film is brainwashing through a low-level mindstate symbol and idea entry technique while the brain is switched off in theta or delta or whatever it does (im rusty).

So it's nothing new but I agree its getting very refined.

3D motion picture / tv is a crock. I like hologram sculptures / art though. They look cool.

Oh you saying 'Bone' the comic series??? That is a great story/graphic novel!!! Everyone should read - it's lord of the rings story meets disney style art.

[Piltdown Man]

It is never the images themselves, it is the pain of realizing that you want something more from life, while at the same time you can not even imagine how this more would look like in the real world, you can not even name the object of your desire because you do not have the vocabulary to do so.
Suddenly, you get a definitive image of an aspect of that "something more" (tribal society and pristine nature in Avatar, the high school friendship and personal power in Harry Potter, the wise order of the knights in Star Wars) and your desire attaches itself to it because it is the only way how your mind can conceptualize the inner pain of not having what it desperately wishes for.

The Pandora Syndrom is a proof that we are yet human, that there is yet a part in those people that cares. It is also a proof that our society is rotten to the core because it's vocabulary does not even allow us to formulate our innermost desires.

Please keep in mind that I am NOT saying that our innermost desire is to be tall blue giants, no. Our innermost desire is to experience and grow, to be heroes (of our own tale, not just extras) in the broadest sense of the word. This is what stories of all ages communicate to us - the ideal of a Hero's Journey (not just the archetypal myth, there are infinite variations); and what we have forgotten is that a Hero's Journey is ultimately only a reflection of what each and every one of us needs, though each has his or her own form of it's expression.

Our society has convinced us that we are not heroes of our stories, that the best we can hope for is the "good life" (find a wife, have kids, go to work, grow old, die), which is what extras do; our society has even convinced us that we can not even aspire to be heroes, that it "isn't proper;" and we have forgotten that "not being proper" is the first thing that separates heroes from normal people.

wow, sad post
"the best we can hope for (find a wife, have kids, go to work, grow old, die), which is what extras do..."

seems the NWO has triumphed here too. Deep in this post is the perception that "the good life" is not enough.
Talk about breaking up the family.
My biggest heroes are people who do just that: live responsible lives, in stable families. It used to be enough.  It used to be incredible.  It used to be strong, and all that you needed was deep in that structure which is, truly, everything.

What are heroes? Great question.
Guys who go to war and kill lots of "evil doers?" Scientists who develop "vaccines"? Artists who live only for themselves and their creations, have series of shattered relationships, eventually commit suicide, making everyone miserable around them?

I would say: be very careful about those "innermost desires" that you speak of.  Who is dictating/planting/suggesting them? These things you desperately wish for after you go see a "blockbuster" (masonic term), where do they come from?

When you go to the movies, keep the tv on in the background and live within an artificially controlled society, the source of your "innermost desires" deserves, at the very least, really hard, thorough exploration.
 

[GhostofTsenzei]

You got this revelation from a totally unreal projection of digitized, pixelated machine generated illusions?  From a profit motivated psy op light show?

Different strokes for different blokes? The failure to see the "true value" of the planet and its people, and, more importantly, the actual solutions that could have arisen with better scripting, lead to the scripted war.  *shrug*

uh, that's what he said: reread the sentence I put in red.

He said he's glad that kids are waking up to the fact that the world has problems.  NOT that they are becoming suicidal.  Those are two VERY different things.  He hopes that they'll want to change things, not that they'll want to kill themselves thinking themselves powerless to do so.

People: I know I'm being harsh. I know I sound like an a**hole.  I think the stakes are that high.
We have to be really vigilant and careful here.
We can't think we are immune from swallowing the bait.
Danger danger.

Certainly, vigilance is something to be admired, but it must be maintained in all aspects.  Including making sound, logical arguments rather than resulting to false arguments based on emotional manipulation.  We win against mind control, propaganda, and the NWO by being BETTER than them, and we can afford to because we have truth on our side.  Truth, generally, being far more kick-ass than lies.

Alex is exposing the psy op that is Avatar on his infowars site today: good thing.  Is anyone still worried about what newbies might think?

I remain largely unconvinced by AJ's arguments.  That said, I do think that discussion of the issue is most certainly a good thing.  If nothing else it brings attention to when, what, and how propaganda can be used and spread, and not limited to this movie.  It keeps people vigilant as well.  Plus I prefer stimulating conversation over conversation that is... less so.  Even (especially?) when I disagree with someone elses' viewpoint on an issue.

[Piltdown Man]

 I do think that discussion of the issue is most certainly a good thing.  If nothing else it brings attention to when, what, and how propaganda can be used and spread, and not limited to this movie.  It keeps people vigilant as well.  Plus I prefer stimulating conversation over conversation that is... less so.  Even (especially?) when I disagree with someone elses' viewpoint on an issue.

Hear hear!  Agree X a trillion! 

[NinjaGaijin]

Artists who live only for themselves and their creations, have series of shattered relationships, eventually commit suicide, making everyone miserable around them?

I think this is important also. While Terrence McKenna stresses the way art which unlock our consciousnesses, I thought long and hard about this for myself. Can my art unlock thought, does it convey a message that will not be misinterpreted?

Like Tool's Sober which helped a man become sober, while the song is about 'why should we NOT be sober ...[and]... drink forever?'. Everything, even that which is meant to be clear, can be easily misinterpreted by those befuzzled by the brainwarped society we live in.

First I believe that you need equal parts of these three: Entertainment (to consume the audience), Technical skill (to produce complex pieces if needed and to push the limits of the art) and Meaning.

The meaning is the hardest to convey however due to misinterpretation or confusing or unclear or things that can be interpreted in a multitude of ways purposefully.

I think the answer is to be direct and positive. Give suggestions, provide information, convey emotions relating to it, don't make an 'anti-' track ever, because you are just giving power to the thing you are talking about. Some people might even listen to your track as pro- whatever you were anti-.

In this, art should not be self-indulgent. It should not necessarily be that personal. Sometimes it is great this way, but mostly, if you wish to make a difference, you must abstract yourself somewhat. Your experiences are vital. But your personality and opinions are not always as important.

Information is integral. When art has a positive meaning that inspires creativity and thought in other people, it is a very positive thing for our civilisation.

But when 'art' becomes the tag for things like the Japanese rape simulation game 'Rape Lay' or a piece of war propaganda like Goebbels or Spielberg, it is a sad day. But it does not make Art worthless.. it just is these worthless artworks make art look worthless, until their damage is undone through something outstanding.

Sorry for ramble, late one becomes early one hehe

[Michal Ptacnik]

seems the NWO has triumphed here too. Deep in this post is the perception that "the good life" is not enough.
Talk about breaking up the family.
My biggest heroes are people who do just that: live responsible lives, in stable families. It used to be enough.  It used to be incredible.  It used to be strong, and all that you needed was deep in that structure which is, truly, everything.

For some, this is enough. For others, it is not. It is up to you to decide whether it is I who am programmed by the NWO, or if it is you and you have just lost hope in light of empty phrases like "the biggest heroes are those who live a good life with kids and family."

For me, the closest thing to a proof that my version is more correct is the fact that most version of what it means to be heroic were not like you described, but were rather closer to mine.

I would say: be very careful about those "innermost desires" that you speak of.  Who is dictating/planting/suggesting them? These things you desperately wish for after you go see a "blockbuster" (masonic term), where do they come from?

Not the NWO, that comes into play much later. These things are within you from the start. I won't be entering the nurture vs. nature debate, but I call them innermost for a reason - they are there inherently in people. The desire to know yourself, to know your environment... and to do something substantial with your life.

It is the hopelessness and the idea that the world is not a wonderful place that has been enforced by the society/NWO. And how is it that they were so successful? Their version of society makes a very good case for a "dull, gray world." Work, go home, telly, sleep, work... oh yeah, feeling excited already.

Actually, as I think about it, having kids and family outside of the grid can be sort of... fun... interesting... you know, and you are doing something that matters. I would agree with you that it is adventurous in some way, and heroic since you are not just blindly following orders. But that's what it is all about, taking the path less traveled, but the one that leads to the truth. I guess that is what heroes do. But there is more. Heroes make themselves better, and possibly the rest of mankind. The former I understand, the latter I don't pretend to understand as of yet.

[luckee1]

How in the hell did this

I think its a good thing these kids are waking up and realizing they don't like our world. Thats great! It will inspire them to change. Better than nothing, better than just continuing as zombies.

turn into this?

you are being played like a cracked violin.
it's GREAT that kids are suicidal and want to escape this world?
it's GREAT that there's gonna be a sequel?

And you are just another fiddler!  Anyone here who says they like the movie or says anything positive about it, is being met with your 'Cameron is a devil' routine. 

You sound like one of those people you find in churches that screeches:  "Satan is out to get you!!!"  "Satan is in everything!"  Your posts have the tone of like the the Mother character in Carrie "They're gonna laugh at you!"

Some people should have the freedom to make an analysis on a movie without your vinegar-faced attack.

Are you going to tell us what books we can read next and what all they mean?  Hmmmm.  Are we next going to have bonfires of forbidden books to?

You say that you are worried for the children why don't you take your voice to those sites and post all these dire warnings there, then?  No you just bash the gong here where adults, who make their own sound decisions, have to put up with your acidic screeches.

If Cameron is so damn guilty of things you are charging, then press charges on him and stalk his websites.  Jeeze! enough already.

[Jackson Holly]

piltdownman:

wow, sad post
"the best we can hope for (find a wife, have kids, go to work, grow old, die), which is what extras do..."

Is That All There Is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VscVP_Gt_s

[Satyagraha]

Vatican says don't see Avatar !
Vatican critical of Avatar's spiritual message
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message963420/pg1

The Vatican's newspaper and its radio station have given a lukewarm reception to the film Avatar, criticizing it for its "spiritualism linked to the worship of nature."

A red-carpet preview of Canadian James Cameron's 3-D blockbuster was held in Rome ahead of its wide release Friday in Italy.

The film is set on the fictional planet of Pandora, where humans are creating an environmentally destructive mining colony.

Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano devoted three articles to Avatar in its Sunday editions but said Cameron's plot was "bland" and unoriginal.

"He tells the story without going deep into it, and ends up falling into sappiness," it said.

The newspaper had praise for the film's visual effects, but said the story failed to touch the heart.

"So much stupefying, enchanting technology, but few genuine emotions," the reviewer wrote.

Pope fights neopaganism
Vatican Radio said Avatar "cleverly winks at all those pseudo-doctrines that turn ecology into the religion of the millennium."

Pope Benedict XVI has spoken of the need to protect the environment, but warned against "neopaganism" and the danger of turning nature into a "new divinity."

In Avatar, "nature is no longer a creation to defend but a divinity to worship," the radio reviewer said.

Vatican spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi said the reviews reflect the Pope's views on confusing nature and spirituality. However, they are independent film reviews with no input from the pontiff, he added.

The Vatican newspaper recently had praise for the long-running TV show, The Simpsons.But it was famously dismissive of the film version of The Da Vinci Code, a criticism that made very little difference to the film's box office.

Avatar has earned more than $1 billion US at the box office so far and looks set to become the highest-grossing film of all time, beating Cameron's previous record with Titanic.
[link to www.cbc.ca]

[SpeakUpFightBack]

what, shadow?? there's a 4th one??

cool!

I did like the whole initiation ritual at the start of Speaker For The Dead, where you must for hours travel on hands and knees following grains back and forth along a wooden floor. That would give anyone a dose of some severe patience hehehe

Personally, I read a single writer at a time where possible, until I get bored with them. Unfortunately at the moment, or rather, 2 years ago when I last looked at written paper (aka NOT the internet.. sad isnt it), I was still reading a most prolific and awesome guy named Neal Stephenson. A lot of people try William Gibson and get turned off. I didn't mind him personally, but after him I moved onto Stephenson and he blew my mind. I got up to the 2nd novel of his historical epic series he has been writing for the past decade or so - I kept getting overdue fines at the library and I haven't paid them off yet so I still can't finish them!

But I can't recommend him enough. Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon, The Big U, Zodiac, The Diamond Age...

I will have to check out Stephenson. I too tried William Gibson (Spook Country).... couldn't get into it.

And as far as the Ender series.... there were two 4 book story lines (one followed Ender, the other followed Bean):

Ender's Game
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind

Ender's Shadow
Shadow of the Hegemon
Shadow Puppets
Shadow of the Giant

Then there were several short story books. My favorite was "First Meetings in Ender's Universe". The story detailing his first encounter with Jane involves a banker trying to rob him of all his 'accumulated interest.' One of the best endings to a story.

(and the following grains was the opening to Xenocide.... good stuff)
 

[SpeakUpFightBack]

And you are just another fiddler!  Anyone here who says they like the movie or says anything positive about it, is being met with your 'Cameron is a devil' routine.  

You sound like one of those people you find in churches that screeches:  "Satan is out to get you!!!"  "Satan is in everything!"  Your posts have the tone of like the the Mother character in Carrie "They're gonna laugh at you!"

Some people should have the freedom to make an analysis on a movie without your vinegar-faced attack.

Are you going to tell us what books we can read next and what all they mean?  Hmmmm.  Are we next going to have bonfires of forbidden books to?

You say that you are worried for the children why don't you take your voice to those sites and post all these dire warnings there, then?  No you just bash the gong here where adults, who make their own sound decisions, have to put up with your acidic screeches.

If Cameron is so damn guilty of things you are charging, then press charges on him and stalk his websites.  Jeeze! enough already.

Amen....

This is starting to sound amazingly like the Two Party line: well we have to vote either Dem or Republican so I'm voting for the lesser of two evils?

WHy even choose this crap? Who said it's either Michael Jackson's father or Avatar?  Why not stay out of the theater and turn off the TV??

Only thing Avatar is a gateway to is more mind kontrol.  

AMazing that you mentioned that leaving Avatar you understood our FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND REALITY is our downfall.  

You got this revelation from a totally unreal projection of digitized, pixelated machine generated illusions?  From a profit motivated psy op light show?

I agree, our failure to understand reality will be our downfall.  

I AGREE with you that the movie is a trap.... 80% is good social commentary, but the conclusion is wrong. To say the least, we DON"T need to get rid of industry to save humanity, we need to get rid of the oil company barriers (government) to the suppressed advanced technologies. I also AGREE that recommending AVATAR over FALL OF THE REPUBLIC is like recommending disgruntled conservatives to BECK instead of ALEX JONES. Why settle for poison? I get it. But what I am doing is saying, "FALL/ALEX is great, lets watch/listen, no - OK maybe later, you want to watch AVATAR/BECK, OK, but at the end, I will point out the serious faults with the hopes of getting to truth.

Your arguments remind me of the confused/angry sentiment I got for watching Fahrenheit 9/11.... and recommending it to my liberal friends. Yes, it was soft on the facts and the conclusion that the Democrats would make it all better was a joke, but, I was eventually able to get those same friends/family to watch the 9/11 portion of Zeitgeist. Sometimes all you can do is plant the seeds of doubt, wait for them to sprout, then give them the full bout.

The objective is to be free, NOT to be perfect every step of the way. You give your ALL!!!!

-------

Side note, I have recently discovered 'The Secret of Oz'.... the best TRUE icebreaker I found to date. I got everyone in my diverse circle to watch it and they were both impressed by the presentation and stunned by the reality of the banker control. They also enjoyed it. I couldn't get that done without conceding to the likes of watching Avatar, V, etc.

[Mike Philbin]

My God, what is this rambling nonsense?

People are just stuck in JOBS - it's just a job. Being a soldier, being a scientist, being an artist, a priest, a surgeon, a pickpocket, a 'criminal', a 'terrorist' it's just a job.

Any professional can commit suicide, any person can be a hero. And the heros will emerge in 2010 to change this planet.

What are heroes? Great question.
Guys who go to war and kill lots of "evil doers?" Scientists who develop "vaccines"? Artists who live only for themselves and their creations, have series of shattered relationships, eventually commit suicide, making everyone miserable around them?

[Volitzar]

The movie seems more like an anti-imperialist stance against humans and human nature.

You could substitute Americans (humans) in/on Iraq/Afghanistan (Pandora)  trying to exploit the natural resources (ore) oil and the Iraqis/Afghanies ("savages") that oppose them.

[Satyagraha]

Avatar under attack from Vatican, U.S. military, liberals
James Cameron's hit movie accused of everything from racism to promoting smoking
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/avatar-under-attack-from-vatican-us-military-liberals/article1428912/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheGlobeAndMail-International+%28The+Globe+and+Mail+-+World+News%29

Siri Agrell
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail Published on Tuesday, Jan. 12, 2010 7:04PM EST Last updated on Wednesday, Jan. 13, 2010 5:06AM EST

James Cameron might be laughing all the way to the bank, but his record-setting 3-D film, Avatar , is receiving criticism from a bizarre cast of characters, who accuse it of being everything from a racist throwback to the source of their overwhelming depression.

The accusations range from the comical to the militantly politically correct, with voices on both sides of the right-left political divide weighing in on the blockbuster, which has earned more than $1.1-billion around the world since its release last month.

The movie tells the story of the planet Pandora, where tall, blue, nature-loving creatures called the Na'vi must contend with humans intent on grabbing its natural resources.

Here on Earth, Vatican commentators have given the film a negative review, belittling the movie's environmental message.

The Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano said the film “gets bogged down by a spiritualism linked to the worship of nature.” A reviewer for Vatican Radio said it “cleverly winks at all those pseudo-doctrines that turn ecology into the religion of the millennium.”

In the United States, conservatives have attacked the movie for being anti-American and anti-capitalist in its depiction of humans as greed-driven marauders. But liberals, too, are participating in the backlash, debating whether the film is racist, as the blue-skinned natives (many of whom are played by non-white actors) have to be saved from extinction by a heroic white man, the former marine Jake Sully.

A campaign called Smoke Free Movies took offence to the fact that Sigourney Weaver's character, Dr. Grace Augustine, smokes cigarettes throughout the film. James Cameron responded in The New York Times, saying he had the character smoking to show that she was evil.

“The same way that I would never show lying, cheating, stealing or killing as cool, or aspirational, I would never portray smoking that way,” Mr. Cameron said.

“We need to embrace a more complex set of criteria than simply the knee-jerk reaction ‘smoking is bad, therefore cannot be shown.' It should be a matter of character, context, and the nature of the portrayal.”

But even the group who can claim the movie's hero as one of their own have taken issue with Mr. Cameron's characters.

Colonel Bryan Salas, public affairs officer for the U.S. Marine Corps, accused Avatar of taking “sophomoric shots at our military culture” and stereotyping members of the Marines.

“The Marine Corps embraces a warrior-scholar mentality and prides itself on understanding host country narratives and sensitivities in complex climes and places,” he wrote in a letter to the Marine Corps Times.
(You mean, like this? --> Marines Murdered 15 Unarmed Iraqi Civilians)

 “Let's view Avatar for what it is, a leap in the wizardry of cinema, a digital fantasy and a vehicle for a filmmaker to make a statement, but not emblematic of the Marines who honourably fight and fall to win our nation's real battles today.”


But perhaps the strangest reaction to Avatar comes from those who say its depiction of Pandora was so compelling that they wish it was real.

On the website Avatar Forums, a topic thread entitled “Ways to cope with the depression of the dream of Pandora being intangible,” has received thousands of posts from people experiencing depression after seeing the movie.

The topic became so popular that a second thread was added for members to express their strong feelings about the movie.

“After I finished crying, I was inspired to learn more about how I can try to feel the interconnection better,” wrote one visitor, using the online name Merkt. “To live like a Na'vi in my limited human body.”

At least one unusual movie reviewer has offered the film some praise. Bolivia's first indigenous President, Evo Morales, told the ABI news agency that he identifies with the film's “profound show of resistance to capitalism and the struggle for the defence of nature.”

His screening of Avatar was his third-ever trip to the movies.

[iks83]

The military is always bitching. A ex-Marine is the hero of the movie and they are bitching... probably just because since everything is CGI there was no need for the military to be involved in the shooting... pun intended.

[RastaFariWasRight]

I hear what you all are saying but I actually found this movie very entertaining. Better than everything else Ive seen this year...

[Viper]

The movie seems more like an anti-imperialist stance against humans and human nature.

You could substitute Americans (humans) in/on Iraq/Afghanistan (Pandora)  trying to exploit the natural resources (ore) oil and the Iraqis/Afghanies ("savages") that oppose them.

I see that, and i really dig new tech too, my only beef is being a Christian i can't see part the anti-human part.
I care not to see it cause i believe we've all been made in the True likeness of the Creator himself.

[chris jones]

The military is not pleased with this film??
Nor is the Vatican??
I  Wonder why???
I appears that there are many who take this as a afront to their religous beliefs, and our miltarys present function. AMAZING.
I must be on another midset. Why?
These blue creatures remind me of the Indians behavior, ya know, those folks we stuck on reservations or slaughtered.
WELL Did we or didn't we? I'll answer that for ya and for me, ya we did, we either wacked them out, or sent them to reservations.
Were they Christians, nope, they were of a different religion, does that frighten me, HELL NO.
It also reminds me of the slaughter in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, India, and on and on back to Nam. They are Muslims, is that why they are so easy to wack out, to genocide.
We are invading them, are we not. Who gives a sweet shiiite what they worship, are they attacking us, NO, they why attack them, looking for WMD's maby,, Ill tell ya why, the power is suking up profit,unlimited power and in the process of domestic domination.

The forefront of the posts I have read is fear that this cartoon fantasy will endanger religious beleifs. That its sole purpose was to critize Christianity, And to, back the GREEN fable.

I am concerned, I mean that.  I'm not hero worshiping Cameron by any means, I am not promoting a damn thing, I'm stating the facts as I see them.

My focus for over 40 years has been the MASS maniplation of this nation, why, I was in one of their wars for profit. Over 3 million human beings were killed in this war, mostly civilians. In Iraq, over a million have been killed at minimum, mostly civilians. My one and only salvation was directing my rage at those who dominated, those who profited from the slaughter, yes those who profited by the genocide of other humans. It was not about religion, it was about money and power.

For me, guys and gals, I not worried about ones religions, or their race, or color, or orgins, I'm worried about the domination of a nation and the coming generations future, independent of the color or brand of religion. Ya know it makes me wonder, why there is seperation of church and state? Or is there? OR maby I would have to speak with Billy the Graham to get an answer to that?

This deep hidden meaning, please, when is enough -enough. There are other religions in this world we live in, accept it, respect them, why fear them. For FK sake I saw men of every beleif under the sun die in the beleif it was for their country and in reality was sorely for the power and their profit. It is not ones religion that concerns me, it is who they are, parasites and cowards or human beings with honor and integrity.

The supercorps in this film were using the military to genocide the inhabitants of a this world to make money and increase power.
Simlar to what our boys in boots are ordered to do by the machine.
Americas sons are being crippled, killed, and driven insane. Our regime is using them  genociding, torturing, and imprisoning in the millions. This is not Christianity!!!!!!!!!

This response is extreme in my humble oppinion. Tell me something please!!! If in fact this abomination is contray to Christs teaching, then where are all the holy robed ones, are they bringing their flocks to WDC and beating on the doors of our elected criminals, or are they supporting it under the guise of support our troops, (send them cookies).
Are they truly carrying Christ's message? YA I'M asking you folks, are they??? Or are they obeying the Gov's wishes, going along as we create more enemys in the history of this nation, and destroying everything this country stood for. The beacon light to the world  is now the beacon of DEATH.

It appears to me the Military is not fond of this flick, nor is the Vatican. That FK well sums it up for me.
There are continung posts on here including letters of suicidal thoughts, depression, anxiety. How many out of the many millions who have seen this cartoon with a open mind are included. ZIP that I can find.

No more entrys into this subject for me, this is it. In fact the more the military speaks out against this film, the more I will enjoy it, I hope they raise hell and expose themselves.
 Many feel the kids are traumitized, realy, or was it a stab of reality.
Ya know we do not have the nightly news showing the wars, the combat, the destruction, the torturing, the genocide, as we did in Nam. The inhumanity or the regime..The News Media is prohibited by the power.
This fantasy does. Why do so many not see this???
I'm off this one, drop your jaws if you like, my take on this is what many refer to as  free speach, independent thought and free will.

[jofortruth]

Avatar under attack from Vatican, U.S. military, liberals
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/avatar-under-attack-from-vatican-us-military-liberals/article1428912/

“After I finished crying, I was inspired to learn more about how I can try to feel the interconnection better,” wrote one visitor, using the online name Merkt. “To live like a Na'vi in my limited human body.”

I had to laugh, but also shake my head, when I saw this quote near the end of article. This person is clueless how she/he was just manipulated. Come on people! You must start thinking for yourselves and quit allowing MOVIES or anything to manipulate you into what the ELITE want you to think.

QUIT BEING SHEEPLE! OUR FUTURE DEPENDS ON IT!  

[Piltdown Man]

I think this is important also. While Terrence McKenna stresses the way art which unlock our consciousnesses, I thought long and hard about this for myself. Can my art unlock thought, does it convey a message that will not be misinterpreted?

Like Tool's Sober which helped a man become sober, while the song is about 'why should we NOT be sober ...[and]... drink forever?'. Everything, even that which is meant to be clear, can be easily misinterpreted by those befuzzled by the brainwarped society we live in.

First I believe that you need equal parts of these three: Entertainment (to consume the audience), Technical skill (to produce complex pieces if needed and to push the limits of the art) and Meaning.

The meaning is the hardest to convey however due to misinterpretation or confusing or unclear or things that can be interpreted in a multitude of ways purposefully.

I think the answer is to be direct and positive. Give suggestions, provide information, convey emotions relating to it, don't make an 'anti-' track ever, because you are just giving power to the thing you are talking about. Some people might even listen to your track as pro- whatever you were anti-.

In this, art should not be self-indulgent. It should not necessarily be that personal. Sometimes it is great this way, but mostly, if you wish to make a difference, you must abstract yourself somewhat. Your experiences are vital. But your personality and opinions are not always as important.

Information is integral. When art has a positive meaning that inspires creativity and thought in other people, it is a very positive thing for our civilisation.

But when 'art' becomes the tag for things like the Japanese rape simulation game 'Rape Lay' or a piece of war propaganda like Goebbels or Spielberg, it is a sad day. But it does not make Art worthless.. it just is these worthless artworks make art look worthless, until their damage is undone through something outstanding.

Sorry for ramble, late one becomes early one hehe

really thoughtful post! Thanks...
I love posts that get me thinking deeper about issues near and dear to my heart.

I've lived as an artist all my life...I love art that pushes the edges. Art that awakens is always what interests me most.   Sometimes that can look like really negative crap on a wall...sometimes art that awakens can be shocking, beautiful, inspiring, ugly, depressing, violent, even dull. If it's honest, it's all really cool to me. I love the fact that humans even bother to make art; blows my mind...it's not remotely about survival, just pure need to self-express.

I think my broad category of "art that awakens" is comparable to your "outstanding" art category.

I think art projects can be self-indulgent, and sometimes necessarily are; but one's whole life as an artist, as in any profession, shouldn't be self-indulgent.  We've had so many pitiful examples of artists who live really indulgent, destructive lives, creating much misery for themselves and others.  There are conversely amazing artists who live responsible, dignified lives. 

I like your idea of "abstracting" yourself.  I think this is a key point because this is where the divine comes in.  Get yourself out of the way, don't take the credit, and the divine has free play in your work. 

I disagree with your three necessary parts of art (1)entertainment, 2)tech and 3)meaning)  Interesting, but I think the first two are distractions and the 3rd is subjective, but getting close.

I think there is only one qualification of outstanding art that awakens: truth.  Is it true? Is is a true effort at honest expression with no agenda behind it? (agendas such as profit, fame, propaganda).  Truth in art can be hard to define, I think it's a feeling you get when you are in the presence of it.

again thanks for posting this! The forum is at its best, imho, when we are delving deep and learning from each other.  (Not so much when we tell each other to shut up, LOL it ain't gonna happen, sorry Luckee1!)

[Piltdown Man]

For some, this is enough. For others, it is not. It is up to you to decide whether it is I who am programmed by the NWO, or if it is you and you have just lost hope in light of empty phrases like "the biggest heroes are those who live a good life with kids and family."

For me, the closest thing to a proof that my version is more correct is the fact that most version of what it means to be heroic were not like you described, but were rather closer to mine.

Not the NWO, that comes into play much later. These things are within you from the start. I won't be entering the nurture vs. nature debate, but I call them innermost for a reason - they are there inherently in people. The desire to know yourself, to know your environment... and to do something substantial with your life.

It is the hopelessness and the idea that the world is not a wonderful place that has been enforced by the society/NWO. And how is it that they were so successful? Their version of society makes a very good case for a "dull, gray world." Work, go home, telly, sleep, work... oh yeah, feeling excited already.

Actually, as I think about it, having kids and family outside of the grid can be sort of... fun... interesting... you know, and you are doing something that matters. I would agree with you that it is adventurous in some way, and heroic since you are not just blindly following orders. But that's what it is all about, taking the path less traveled, but the one that leads to the truth. I guess that is what heroes do. But there is more. Heroes make themselves better, and possibly the rest of mankind. The former I understand, the latter I don't pretend to understand as of yet.

Thoughtful post.  Got me thinking about heroes...  This is all, imo, a good side issue for the Avatar thread.

My thoughts on heroes;
you can go wide or go deep.

Heroes that go wide influence the world with their good deeds, and make a splash.  People like Alex Jones, Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Mother Teresa.  Good, important people to the human race.  I remember one interview with Mother Teresa when she was asked: "What can I do to help save the world?"  I was about twelve, and I remember the sensation of her looking right at the camera, right at ME, and she said: "Love those in your immediate family who are closest to you.  Love them selflessly."  I was like; bowled over.  It changed my life, it really did.

Heroes that go deep: I think about a beautiful woman i know who has spent her life raising her Down's Syndrome daughter, and it's been a chore.  Her husband left her, her professional life has been difficult, but she's done a remarkable job helping her daughter into autonomy.  I think of a man I know (my partner of 14 years, in fact) who never hesitates to help anyone who asks, who teaches difficult young kids how to play with clay, who never makes a big deal out of his own wants and needs. He's a big guy, 6 feet tall and solid muscle, but you will never see him take food first or even take a 2nd helping unless he is sure everyone has had all they want.  He treats his 85 year old mother who is in the latter stages of Altzheimer's like the sweet princess that she is.  And when times get tough, he just gets quiet and thinks of the best possible thing to do.

We need both kinds of heroes. The wide and the deep.