Was a stand down order issued? That's in dispute. If Norm Mineta is correct
in his testimony, then yes, Dick Cheney ordered a stand down. But the 9-11
Commission claims (due to testimony from others) that Mineta is incorrect
in his timeline of events. However it seems very clear from the evidence
that no shoot down order was given until 10:20
and none relayed to the
military until 10:31
. Which means if an order was given before 10:20 there is no reason to believe it was a shoot down order.
Which would seem to indicate it was a stand down.
Testimony of Norman Mineta:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y
ABC News:"October 3, 2002
Just after 9 a.m. ET on Sept. 11, 2001, Vice President Dick Cheney was in his West Wing office when two or three agents came in and told him "Sir, you have to come with us," according to David Bohrer, a White House photographer who was there.""One of the agents "put his hand on the back of my belt, grabbed me by the shoulder and sort of propelled me down the hallway," Cheney said.""They took him into an underground bunker known as PEOC, the President's Emergency Operations Center."http://web.archive.org/web/20021003222152/http://abcnews.go.com/onair/DailyNews/sept11_moments_2.html
This would be after the second plane hit just minutes after 9 am. When that happened, everyone in the world(except Donald Rumsfeld evidently) knew America was under attack, so this would seem like a reasonable response.
But the 9-11 Commission will claim Cheney arrived at approx 10:00 am
, so it took them almost an hour to get to the Bunker? That's not very believable. However, I am still gathering information to see who is saying what. This issue is rather muddied and frankly seems to be deliberately so, however I'm keeping an open mind in order to try and get to the truth of the matter.
In 2007 Mineta was still standing by his testimony...."Mineta says Vice President Cheney was "absolutely" already there when he arrived at approximately 9:25 a.m. in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency
Operations Center) bunker on the morning of 9/11. Mineta seemed shocked
to learn that the 9/11 Commission Report claimed Cheney had not arrived
there until 9:58-- after the Pentagon had been hit, a report that Mineta
See him answer yourself here...http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/260607_mineta.html
Certain entities seem to want the issue "confusing"....
email from one of John Farmer's staffers to Front Office of 9-11 Commission:From: Dana Hyde
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:02 PM
To: Front Office
Cc: John Farmer
Subject Status of WH "Day of" Investigation"To a person, no one has any recollection of the circumstances and details
surrounding the authorization to shoot down commercial aircraft."http://911myths.com/images/e/ea/Dana_Hyde_Email-Mar02_2004.pdf
Later in email...."Our sense is that the White House will take the position that it is not possible to reconstruct- with any degree of accuracy or reliability - what went on that morning in the Situation Room and PEOC. While we disagree, a detailed reconstruction would require more time, resources and an approach different than that which is currently being pursued."http://911myths.com/images/e/ea/Dana_Hyde_Email-Mar02_2004.pdf
I reccommend reading the entire email, it's rather interesting.
Shoot down or stand down?MR. HAMILTON: In your timeline, why don't you put in there when you were
GEN. ARNOLD: Of which flight, sir?
MR. HAMILTON: Getting the notification from the President of the United
States that you had the authority to shoot a commercial aircraft down is a
pretty significant event. Why would that not be in your timeline?
GEN. ARNOLD: I don't know when that happened.
MR. HAMILTON: Had you ever received that kind of a notice before?
GEN. ARNOLD: Not to my knowledge.
MR. HAMILTON: So this is the first time in the history of the country that
such an order had ever been given, so far as you know?
GEN. ARNOLD: Yes, sir. I'm sure there's a log that would tell us that, and I appreciate the question.
MR. HAMILTON: Maybe you could let us know that.http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/OrderRegardingAA77HittingPentagonOn911.pdfGEN. ARNOLD: Yes, sir. I'm sure there's a log that would tell us that, and I
appreciate the question.http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/archive/hearing2/911Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm
Find that log yet Gen. Arnold? I bet he quit looking because it doesn't exist.
But I could be wrong, it's only been almost 9 years now
John Farmer lead council for the 9-11 Commission has quit looking, he said
in his book............. prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated
by the records of the day.
And there would be a record. That is an incredibly historic event. And we know exactly when the President gave a shoot down order.
Now, I will admit there is conflicting testimony on when Cheney entered the PEOC, and when Mineta did. However, I see no evidence that any shoot down authority was granted until 10:20. The Commission clearly seems to be saying this.
9-11 Commission report"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out."
- page 58/585http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
They have a different timeline than what Mineta describes."the military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out."http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
Shoot down order or stand down?At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31. http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm
If you were going to issue a shoot down order wouldn't you be telling the Secretary of Defense? I mean, that's who you would tell right?"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed. http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
The Secretary of Defense has just spoken to the President of the United
States moments after the first tower collapsed, after passenger jets had
flown into two skyscrapers and the nations military headquarters(the
Pentagon) and he didn't keep any notes of this conversation nor did the President, and neither one remembers what they talked about? Nope. Nothing suspicious about that....right?
Mineta testimony:MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on
the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the
airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --
MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/OrderRegardingAA77HittingPentagonOn911.pdfwere you there when that order was given?
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the
airplane coming into the Pentagon.http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/OrderRegardingAA77HittingPentagonOn911.pdf
Even if the 9-11 Commission is correct, when they claim he arrived at 10:07
(according to the White House) Mineta makes it clear the order was given before he got there.
There was no shoot down order given before 10:07.
The 9-11 Commission seems to admit this.At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31. http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm"The authority was not requested through channels, when Secretary Rumsfeld joined the Air Threat Conference Call at 10:30 and was told about the shoot down order by Vice President Cheney, he was clearly unaware of it. Wether the vice president had requested prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated by the records of the day.
Yes, there would be records of an incredibly historic event as the president giving this shoot down order."but we do know that at 10:31, General Larry Arnold instructed his staff to broadcast the following over a NORAD instant messaging system: "10:31 Vice President has cleared to us to intercept tracks of interest and shoot them down if they do not respond per [General Arnold]. http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-59.htmlThe Vice President's military aide told us he believed the Vice President spoke to the President just after entering the conference room, but he did not hear what they said. Rice, who entered the room shortly after the Vice President and sat next to him, remembered hearing him inform the President, "Sir, the CAPs are up. Sir, they're going to want to know what to do." Then she recalled hearing him say, "Yes sir." She believed this conversation occurred a few minutes, perhaps five, after they entered the conference room.215 http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm
In order to know what the military aide "believed" they would have to talk with him. The person Mineta claimed said "do the orders still stand".
Truthers have been asking for years, who is the young man Mineta is referring to? Well, I could be wrong, but I think he's a Navel Officer named Cochrane, and I'll tell you why shortly, but when the exchange is going on according to the 9-11 commission......."At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out."
- page 58/585http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdfMR. MINETA: And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" http://www.journalof911studies.com/letters/OrderRegardingAA77HittingPentagonOn911.pdfThe authorization to shoot down deviating and unresponsive aircraft was received from the vice president at 10:31 a.m., 15 minutes after NEADS learned that the last hijacked plane, United 93 had crashed. This order was never passed on to the scrambled pilots over New York and Washington.
Ok, so Bush issued a shoot down order huh? Well, if he did the Secretary of
Defense should know about that don't you think? Well, he was just off the
phone with the Secretary of Defense. And guess what?......"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed. http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
Check the footnote. Check the footnote for this and this information comes
from Ari Fleischer's notes, who was with the President and keeping track of
things as a good press secretary would. He knows exactly when the shootdown order came.
Ari Fleischer left in July 2003 just as the Valeri Plame fiasco was boiling, he was used by VP Cheneys office and ended up testifying against Scooter Libby. So give him some credit for having a limit on how much he will BS the American people. But mostly the guy is a scared little punk who will do anything to
stay out of jail. Yea he says things like ..."Attorney General Eric Holder's decision to launch a limited investigation of Bush-era interrogations of terror suspects has sparked intense criticism from Republicans who say it's going too far -- and from progressives, who say it's not going nearly far enough."I think the decision is disgusting," Ari Fleischer, President George W. Bush's first press secretary, told the Huffington Post. "It's amazing to me that the people who kept us safe may now become the people our government prosecutes. There are plenty of real criminals out there -- it would be nice if the Justice Department went after them."http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/24/fleischer-torture-investi_n_267437.html
He says stuff like..."It's amazing to me that the people who kept us safe may now become the people our government prosecutes. There are plenty of real criminals out there -- it would be nice if the Justice Department went after them."...
because he's a scared little punk who if you lean on him just a bit
will crumble, just study the Scooter Libby case (Fleischer, got immunity to turn on Libby and testify
against him)BTW Ari, thank your bosses for keeping those at WTC so safe, and the folks at the pentagon
who were killed also owe you guys so much for keeping them safe. What a punk. The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary.http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm
So you want to know who the "young man" was that asked "do the orders still stand"? I could be wrong, but I don't think the "young man" was so young after all, although you have to remember Mineta was 70 years old at the time, and if he was fit and looking daper in his neatly pressed military uniform Mineta might describe him that way. I think the only person it could be is a navel person named Cochrane, and if it isn't him, he knows who it is.The Vice President's military aide told us he believed the Vice President spoke to the President just after entering the conference room, but he did not hear what they said. Rice, who entered the room shortly after the Vice President and sat next to him, remembered hearing him inform the President, "Sir, the CAPs are up. Sir, they're going to want to know what to do." Then she recalled hearing him say, "Yes sir." She believed this conversation occurred a few minutes, perhaps five, after they entered the conference room.215 http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch1.htm
Check the footnote.....215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004); Condeleeza Rice meeting (Feb. 7, 2004). For Rice entering after the Vice President, see USSS report,“Executive Summary:U.S. Secret Service Timeline of Events, September 11–October 3, 2001,” Oct. 3, 2001, p. 2; Carl Truscott interview (Apr. 15, 2004).http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf
We know who Rice is. Truscott is a member of the secret service because...."interviews of the 3 USSS agents in proximity to the President (Eddie Marenzel) and VP (Truscott and Zotto) are still on hold."http://911myths.com/images/e/ea/Dana_Hyde_Email-Mar02_2004.pdf
That leaves Cochrane. Also...March 2, 2004
(2)VP Military Aide (I believe his last name is Cochrane): The person at the Vice President's side in the PEOC who should have been intimately involved in the military communications chain is his military aide.http://911myths.com/images/e/ea/Dana_Hyde_Email-Mar02_2004.pdf215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004); http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf
He's not such a "young man" after all but maybe a 70 year old (Mineta) might think so, seeing him fit, and in a neatly pressed military uniform......Cochrane was selected to serve as the Naval Aide to the Vice President in November of 2000 and served Vice President Richard B. Cheney until December 2002. He was commended by President George W. Bush for distinguished service as Naval Aide and Emergency Action Officer, on and about Sept. 11, 2001.http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=1146282991&page_url=%2f%2fwww.mayportmirror.com%2fstories%2f040705%2fmay_hsl44001.shtml&page_last_updated=10%2f4%2f2009+7%3a17%3a51+AM&firstName=Douglas&lastName=Cochrane
The notes from this interview....215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004); http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Notes.pdf
As far as I know the notes from this meeting have not been released yet, but I know people are working on that. It's unlikely he would admit to a stand down even if there was, but looking at this....http://911myths.com/images/e/e4/DanaHyde_Box3_WhiteHouseTimelines.pdf
what they planed on talking with him about..... it should be interesting.