Question about Fluoride in drinking water

[Seraphic]

Hi,

I don't have $1,000 for the EcoloBlue, so I buy and drink one gallon bottles of water for 82c each.
New York puts a lot of nasty stuff in tap/public water, so I have not drunk any in years.

About a week ago, thought to myself - wonder if this bottle water has fluoride in it too?
So I e-mailed the company that bottles the water to ask if there was fluoride in the water.
Few days later they got back to me and said:

"The water contains approximately .38 mg./L of fluoride naturally. I hope you find this information helpful."

The water comes in plastic one gallon jugs (plastic is bad enough), but know I learned it as fluoride too.
However, what do they mean by "naturally" has fluoride?
My question is should I continue to drink this water or find another brand?

To be clear, I only drink water. Have been for few years now (no soda, etc.)
Sometimes drink orange juice/apple cider, but that is about it.
(most things have high fructose corn syrup now - which I am sure to avoid).

Thanks.

[Flynn]

That sounds quite high to me, i guess it may be natural in some waters, different from the added stuff,
but still i'd steer clear if i could.
I use a berkey with a flouride filter, surely you could find a brand with less though.

[Seraphic]

Well, this water is Hannaford - "Nature's Place Spring Water".
The only other brand they sell is Poland Spring I think.
(I'm sure they are worse though - their water doesn't taste too good).

[Flynn]

Well, this water is Hannaford - "Nature's Place Spring Water".
The only other brand they sell is Poland Spring I think.
(I'm sure they are worse though - their water doesn't taste too good).

If you drink a lot of it without headaches, i guess it's ok.

[donnay]

Well, this water is Hannaford - "Nature's Place Spring Water".
The only other brand they sell is Poland Spring I think.
(I'm sure they are worse though - their water doesn't taste too good).

Poland Springs has fluoride in some of their water...be careful!

"Poland Spring® Brand Natural Spring Water with Added Fluoride contains up to 0.8 mg/l of fluoride, which is recommended as beneficial by the American Dental Association. Featuring a nonremovable, child-safe twist cap, the 8 oz. fluoridated combines the great-tasting spring water with the benefits of fluoride. It’s the one designed with kids in mind."

[zeke105]

If you have $300, you can get this one:

http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-45-detail.htm

I use this in my house. It has brought my TDS as low as 16ppm. It was around 320ppm unfiltered.

[Nomadinexile]

Some info from Clinical Practice of the Dental Hygienist 9th edition  Esther M. Wilkins copyright 2005

*This is THE book for American Hygienists.  Don't know what is right and wrong.  I am just the messenger of this material.

P.547  

Epidemiologic studies of the 1930's sponsored by the United States Public Health Service and directed by Dr. H. Trendley Dean led to the conclusion that the level of fluoride in the water optimum for dental caries prevention averages 1ppm in moderate climates.  Clinically objectionable dental fluorosis is associated with levels well over 2 ppm.

P.548

Since 1962, the United States Public Health Service has recommended an optimal fluoride concentration of .7 to 1.2 ppm  .7 in warmer climates, 1.2 in cooler climates with less water consumption.

Can be Sodium fluoride, Sodium silicofluoride, or Hydrofluorosilicic acid

P. 551
The "halo effect" refers to the unintentional addition of fluoride to a concentrated beverage that is reconstituted from a water supply containing fluoride in a city other than where it is consumed.  (*Happens in baby formula sometimes that have fluoride.  MY WORDS)

P. 553     Dental Compounds
A. 2.0% Sodium Fluoride (NaF) Gel or Foam for in-office use
B. 1.23% Acidulated Phosphate Fluoride (APF) Gel or Foam for in-office Use.
C. 8.0% Stannous Fluoride (SnF)   *Rarely used due to taste, instability, tooth staining, and sloughing of gingiva

P. 557 and 558 explain home tray fluoridation of self, and how to counsel patients to do so.  The only "limitations" given on page 559 are don't use on kids under 6  or use alcohol.  

P. 562  

A.  Certainly Lethal Dose (CLD)
1. Adults 5-10 g of Sodium fluoride taken at one time.  or 32 to 64 mg per kilo of body weight.
2. Child  Approximately .5 to 1.0 g variable

B.  Safely Tolerated Dose (STD)  
1. Adult STD: 1.25 to 2.5 g of sodium fluoride
2. Child 12 and lower: Less than .5g (500mg) exceeds STD  
3. Under 6: 500 mg would be lethal

Signs and symptoms of acute toxic Dose     P. 563

A. Gastrointestinal Tract-Forms hydrofluoric acid, an irritant to the stomach lining
1. Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
2. Abdominal pain
3. Increased salivation, thirst.

B. Ststemic Involvements
1. Blood.  Calcium may be bound by the circulating fluoride, thus causing symptoms of hypocalcemia
2. Central Nervous System- Hyperreflexia, convulsions, paresthesias.
3. Cardiovascular and respiratory depression-If not treated, may lead to death in a few hours from cardiac failure or respiratory paralysis.  

Emergency Treatment.
A. Induce Vomiting.  
B. Call 9-11
C. Administer Fluoride-Binding Liquid When Patient is not vomiting
1. Milk
2. Milk of magnesium
3. Lime water (CaOH2 in a 15% solution)
D. Support Respiration

Chronic Toxicity
A. Skeletal Fluorosis
Isolated Instances of osteosclerosis result from chronic toxicity after long-term (20 or more years) use of water with 10-25 ppm fluoride or from industrial exposure.  

That's all relevant info I could find.  Hope it helps.  r      (BTW, these are pro fluoro people)  I personally don't trust a lot of the above, but I don't know enough to decide for you, so here is info to help you figure it out.

[ES]

I wrote Ansheuser Busch asking if there was flouride in their beer. They told me there was. Just thought I would add that.

[LibertyPrevails]

Poland Springs has fluoride in some of their water...be careful!

"Poland Spring® Brand Natural Spring Water with Added Fluoride contains up to 0.8 mg/l of fluoride, which is recommended as beneficial by the American Dental Association. Featuring a nonremovable, child-safe twist cap, the 8 oz. fluoridated combines the great-tasting spring water with the benefits of fluoride. It’s the one designed with kids in mind."

Yeah, but remember that says "Added fluoride" on the label, be sure to check for it.

[Seraphic]

Yeah, but remember that says "Added fluoride" on the label, be sure to check for it.

So if there is no added fluoride label it has none then?

Poland Springs has fluoride in some of their water...be careful!

"Poland Spring® Brand Natural Spring Water with Added Fluoride contains up to 0.8 mg/l of fluoride, which is recommended as beneficial by the American Dental Association. Featuring a nonremovable, child-safe twist cap, the 8 oz. fluoridated combines the great-tasting spring water with the benefits of fluoride. It’s the one designed with kids in mind."

The above statement shows how bad it really is. How does drinking fluoride help your teeth?

Anyway, so Poland Spring brand has 0.8 mg/L or 0.80 mg/L, correct?
The brand I have been drinking has .38 mg./L of fluoride "naturally" (but don't see how it could be natural).
So guess it is a fair bit better, wish I could find a fluoride free brand though.

If you have $300, you can get this one:

http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-45-detail.htm

I use this in my house. It has brought my TDS as low as 16ppm. It was around 320ppm unfiltered.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

[zeke105]

Also, look for their purification process. Reverse osmosis is the best for fluoride removal. I know Aquafina uses a 7 stage, which is very good. A lot of the times they will put their filtration process on the bottle.

[Rini200]

Also, look for their purification process. Reverse osmosis is the best for fluoride removal. I know Aquafina uses a 7 stage, which is very good. A lot of the times they will put their filtration process on the bottle.

that must be why the taste is terrible. I'm so use to the Floride in the drinking water...better get use to that. Gonna try Aquafina from now on and get use to it. Thanks for the tips you guys I really appreciate it.

[Seraphic]

that must be why the taste is terrible. I'm so use to the Floride in the drinking water...better get use to that. Gonna try Aquafina from now on and get use to it. Thanks for the tips you guys I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I see if I can find and try Aquafina.
But doesn't Pepsie own that brand?

[Nomadinexile]

So if there is no added fluoride label it has none then?

The above statement shows how bad it really is. How does drinking fluoride help your teeth?

Anyway, so Poland Spring brand has 0.8 mg/L or 0.80 mg/L, correct?
The brand I have been drinking has .38 mg./L of fluoride "naturally" (but don't see how it could be natural).
So guess it is a fair bit better, wish I could find a fluoride free brand though.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

LOL, NO~ They do not, and usually will not label Fluoride added.  They will not generally tell you about the naturally occuring fluoride 

Same book as above. P. 543     

The fluoride ion (F) is stored as an integral par of the crystal lattice of teeth and bones.......
Fluoride is incorporated during mineralization of all of the parts of the teeth. 

*MY words now.  Basically it's supposed to prevent cavities.  (it is filling in holes in your enamel)

Fluoride is supposed to be really important for kids teeth. 

*Again, I don't know anything about this really,  I don't know what is right or wrong about this stuff!

P. 548

The first communities were fluoridated in 1945. 
Aurora, Illinois, where the natural fluoride level is optimum (1.2 ppm), was used to compare the benefits of natural fluoride in the water supply with those of fluoridation, as well as with a fluoride-free city, Rockford, Illinois.   
The research conducted in these cities, as well as other research done throughout the world, has documented the influence of fluoride on oral health.  The documented effects and benefits are predominantly due to the topical posteruptive exposure of the teeth and oral environment to fluoride of all sources, particularly the fluoride in fluoridated water, through out life.

P. 549  claims benifets of 40%-65% reduction in cavities.  (they call them caries)
They also claim higher tooth loss without it at the bottom of page part V.

P. 550  The below is not quoted, I am going to use my words for clarity.
  In Antigo, Wisconsin, the action of antifluoridationists in 1960 brought about the discontinuance of fluoridation, which had been installed in 1949.  The percent of cavity free children dropped, as the cavity rate rose.  2nd graders who were cavity free fell by 67% in 6 years.  It says fluoridation was then reinstated by popular demand. 

*again, the above isn't necessarily true.  It is taken from THE book for American Dental Hygentists.  But that doesn't mean fluoride makers wrote the book, but you can bet they played a roll in it's information.  So take it for what it's worth!

[Seraphic]

Turns out the store I shop at does have Aquafina.
But they only sell as those little bottles that cost $1.50 when I pay 82c for a gallon for other brand.
Also, Aquafina lists on bottle that it come from public water, but does indeed use a 7 stage filter process.
Just it costs too much at $1.50 for a small bottle. That is almost two gallons of the other brand really.

And to be clear, Pepsi does own Aquafine.
Pepsi says Aquafina is tap water

Coca-Cola on the other hand owns Dasani water.

[zeke105]

It is tap water, but filtered tap water without fluoride. Anyway, I only gave that as an example. Check all the local brands for the filtration process.

[Seraphic]

Poland Spring got back to me about fluoride in their water:

Thank you for taking the time to contact Poland Spring® Brand Natural Spring Water regarding if our spring water contains fluoride. We welcome questions and comments from loyal consumers such as yourself and appreciate this opportunity to assist you.

Our Poland Spring water does contain a minimal amount of naturally occurring fluoride which can range between not detected to 0.24 mg per liter of water. We have also included a link for you to access our mineral analysis report.

At Poland Spring® Brand Natural Spring Water, we are committed to providing you with products that live up to your high standards for taste, quality, nutrition and enjoyment. Your feedback is valuable to us, as it helps us to improve our products and services.

We appreciate your interest in our products and hope you will visit our website www.polandspring.com often for the latest information on our products and promotions.

Also, watch out for brands that say "Minerals added for taste".
Not a good sign if you ask me.

[donnay]

Naturally occurring fluoride is just that--natural.  Just as arsenic occurs naturally--but too much is not good.  However, the poison they are placing in municipalities water around the country is Sodium Fluoride which is a toxic waste and tiny amounts are poison.  Read the warnings on back of toothpaste tubes that are filled with sodium fluoride.


Look up all the information about it's toxicity here.  

[wembley87]

I know that reverse osmosis is the way to go , but i cannot afford that system right now . Ive been looking everywhere for a countertop pitcher water filter but they never say what they filter out , so i guess they are a load of crap .

[Nomadinexile]

Naturally occurring fluoride is just that--natural.  Just as arsenic occurs naturally--but too much is not good.  However, the poison they are placing in municipalities water around the country is Sodium Fluoride which is a toxic waste and tiny amounts are poison.  Read the warnings on back of toothpaste tubes that are filled with sodium fluoride.


Look up all the information about it's toxicity here.  

Just want to clarify something about this comment.   "Natural" on things you consume, including food, mean little.  For example, Uranium is Natural.  Ricin, the poison grows naturally in a plant in the U.S.  and a non-man made virus' is natural as well.

Natural doesn't mean o.k. or good.  Naturally occurring fluoride is probably a little better, but I have some reading to do before I am sure.  But it's still not something you want to consume a lot of, imo

[donnay]

Just want to clarify something about this comment.   "Natural" on things you consume, including food, mean little.  For example, Uranium is Natural.  Ricin, the poison grows naturally in a plant in the U.S.  and a non-man made virus' is natural as well.

Natural doesn't mean o.k. or good.  Naturally occurring fluoride is probably a little better, but I have some reading to do before I am sure.  But it's still not something you want to consume a lot of, imo

Absolutely that is why I made the arsenic reference. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_fluoridefacts.html

Fluoride Information Sheet

    * Tooth decay is NOT caused by a lack of fluoride in our water, but by our diet, nutrition, and state of health.

    * Some areas which have naturally occurring fluoride in their water do have lower incidences of cavities, however the type of fluoride present is naturally occurring calcium fluoride, not man made hydrofluosilic acid (aka: hydrofluorosilicic acid) (H2SiF6), sodium fluoride (NaF), or sodium silicofluoride (Na2SiF6), the compounds used to fluoridate water systems.

    * Fluoridation chemicals are byproducts of the phosphate fertilizer and aluminum industries... correction, not byproducts but waste products... toxic waste products. These industries would not be allowed to simply dump this toxic waste, so they have found an ideal solution... sell it as a supplement. If they tried to dump it in our rivers or streams, there would be a terrible outcry, and these companies would be heavily fined.

    * Sodium Fluoride is also registered with the EPA as a rat poison.

    * Fluoride bio-accumulates in the body.

    * Fluoride Does the Following: inactivates 62 enzymes (Judd) increases the aging process (Yiamouyiannis) increases the incidence of cancer and tumor growth (Waldbott/Yiamouyiannis) disrupts the immune system (Waldbott) causes genetic damage (Tsutsui, et al) interrupts DNA repair-enzyme activity (Waldbott) increased arthritis and is a systemic poison. -- Dr. Ted H. Spence, DDS, ND, PhD/DSc, MH http://www.mercola.com/1999/feb/21/fluoride_controversy.htm

    * The fluoride that is used to fluoridate our drinking water supplies, is a toxic waste product. It is industrial grade, not pharmaceutical grade. There is a world of difference here. It is not even pure sodium fluoride -- bad as that would be -- but it also has impurities, including LEAD and ARSENIC, 2 other very serious poisons in their own right. Arsenic has been implicated in 6 types of cancer. And lead... well gasoline companies had to take the lead out of gasoline, because it is so toxic and causes learning disorders in children. Of course we don't drink gasoline!

    * The amount of fluoride that would be added to our drinking water is 1 part per million (1 ppm). That would only allow for each of us to drink one liter of water per day, in order to get our daily dose. That includes water we cook with and water in processed beverages, such as sodas, if they were made with city or county water in a district which fluoridates its water.

    * Unlike the chlorine that is added to drinking water, fluoride doesn't evaporate. Therefore, when fluoridated water is boiled, the fluoride is not released (as is the case with the chlorine in our water), but instead it is concentrated, which means even higher dosages are taken. Unlike chlorinated water, fluoridated water has no distinctive odor; you can't smell it, taste it, or see it, so there is no way of knowing if you are being overdosed.

    * Fluoride is difficult to filter out of drinking water. Most home filters do not filter it out. To do this requires expensive reverse osmosis or distillation systems.

    * Even if fluoride did work well, and wasn't as highly toxic as it is, and didn't have additional highly toxic impurities, why should the government put it into our drinking water, making everyone ingest it? We don't do that with vitamin C, vitamin A, iron, calcium, or a host of other known essential nutrients. Why just fluoride? This is mass medication we are talking about.

    * Fluoride makes teeth harder but not stronger, and causes fluorosis, chalky-white spots, staining, and pitting. The problem is that in addition to the hardening, small pits appear, which become tiny fissures, which become larger cracks. This is akin to jumping from the frying pan (of dental cavities) into the fire (of fluorosis, and cracked teeth). Too much fluoride causes tooth enamel to soften and teeth to become more prone to cavities. The dangers of fluoride are well known and well documented. Even the US government knows this: On 9/1/00, in a twenty-two page response to the United States House Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment, Chairman, Charles Fox, Assistant Administrator US-EPA, admitted that after more than five decades of fluoridation at least tens of millions of Americans could be adversely affected by fluoridated drinking water. He goes on to say:

"POPULATIONS THAT ARE UNUSUALLY SUSCEPTIBLE
Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually susceptible to the effects of fluoride and its compounds. These populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, magnesium and vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney problems.... Poor nutrition increases the incidence and severity of dental fluorosis and skeletal fluorosis."

Charles Fox, Toxicological Profile for Fluorides,
US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry,
1993 page 112 from http://www.gjne.com/fluoride

    * There are numerous studies which have found higher incidence of cavities in areas with fluoridated water than in areas with non-fluoridated water... also higher incidence of cancers.

    * Commercial Uses of Hydrofluorosilicic Acid

Sterilization of equipment
Electroplating
Tanning of animal hides
Ceramics and glass: Glass etching
Commercial Laundry: As a neutralizer for alkalis
Hardening of cement
Oil well acidizing
Rust and stain removal for textiles
Wood preservative
Water fluoridation

Note how this last use does not exactly fit in with the other industrial applications of the highly toxic chemical.

    * Two articles on mutations caused by fluoride: "Sodium Fluoride-induced Morphological and Neoplastic Transformation Chromosome Aberrations, Sister Chromatid Exchanges, and Unscheduled DNA Synthesis in Cultured Syrian Hamster Embryo Cells", Takeki Tsutsui, Nobuko Suzuki and Manabu Ohmori, Can Res, 44:938-941, 1984 (March) "Sodium Fluoride-induced Chromosome Aberrations in Different Stages of the Cell Cycle: A Proposed Mechanism", Marilyn J. Aardema, et al, Mutation Research, 223:191-203, 1989 The above titles say it all! -- Dr. Ted H. Spence, DDS, ND, PhD/DSc, MH http://www.mercola.com/1999/feb/21/fluoride_controversy.htm

For additional information, check out these websites:

http://www.gjne.com/cfsdwh
http://www.gjne.com/fluoride
http://www.citizens.org
http://www.fluoridealert.org
http://www.nofluoride.com
http://www.fluoridation.com
http://www.fluoride-journal.com (for health professionals)
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/hfacts.html
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/mcl.html
http://www.npwa.freeserve.co.uk
http://home.att.net/~gtigerclaw/EPAresponse.html

>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><< >

Huge Fluoride Spill in Pittsburgh,
PA National Response Center - Emergency Response Data

http://www.penweb.org/fluoride/chemicals/pittsburgh.html

Source: Fluoridation News
September 17, 1996

An 8,000 gallon capacity storage tank at the City of Pittsburgh water treatment plant split open on Saturday, September 14, pouring at least 5,000 gallons of hydrofluorosilicic acid into the Allegheny River. The tank had a weak seam in it. Officials are investigating purchase records to determine who was the manufacturer of the tank. One water treatment employee was overcome by fumes and taken to St. Margaret Memorial Hospital. The leak was discovered at 11:30 a.m. It took about 11 hours to transfer the rest of the hydrofluorosilicic acid to another storage tank. The fumes dissipated quickly because of windy weather. The Coast Guard issued a chemical spill advisory on the Allegheny River. Boating and all river traffic was halted.

[Nomadinexile]

Absolutely that is why I made the arsenic reference. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_fluoridefacts.html

Fluoride Information Sheet

    * Tooth decay is NOT caused by a lack of fluoride in our water, but by our diet, nutrition, and state of health.

    * Some areas which have naturally occurring fluoride in their water do have lower incidences of cavities, however the type of fluoride present is naturally occurring calcium fluoride, not man made hydrofluosilic acid (aka: hydrofluorosilicic acid) (H2SiF6), sodium fluoride (NaF), or sodium silicofluoride (Na2SiF6), the compounds used to fluoridate water systems.

    * Fluoridation chemicals are byproducts of the phosphate fertilizer and aluminum industries... correction, not byproducts but waste products... toxic waste products. These industries would not be allowed to simply dump this toxic waste, so they have found an ideal solution... sell it as a supplement. If they tried to dump it in our rivers or streams, there would be a terrible outcry, and these companies would be heavily fined.

    * Sodium Fluoride is also registered with the EPA as a rat poison.

    * Fluoride bio-accumulates in the body.

    * Fluoride Does the Following: inactivates 62 enzymes (Judd) increases the aging process (Yiamouyiannis) increases the incidence of cancer and tumor growth (Waldbott/Yiamouyiannis) disrupts the immune system (Waldbott) causes genetic damage (Tsutsui, et al) interrupts DNA repair-enzyme activity (Waldbott) increased arthritis and is a systemic poison. -- Dr. Ted H. Spence, DDS, ND, PhD/DSc, MH http://www.mercola.com/1999/feb/21/fluoride_controversy.htm

    * The fluoride that is used to fluoridate our drinking water supplies, is a toxic waste product. It is industrial grade, not pharmaceutical grade. There is a world of difference here. It is not even pure sodium fluoride -- bad as that would be -- but it also has impurities, including LEAD and ARSENIC, 2 other very serious poisons in their own right. Arsenic has been implicated in 6 types of cancer. And lead... well gasoline companies had to take the lead out of gasoline, because it is so toxic and causes learning disorders in children. Of course we don't drink gasoline!

    * The amount of fluoride that would be added to our drinking water is 1 part per million (1 ppm). That would only allow for each of us to drink one liter of water per day, in order to get our daily dose. That includes water we cook with and water in processed beverages, such as sodas, if they were made with city or county water in a district which fluoridates its water.

    * Unlike the chlorine that is added to drinking water, fluoride doesn't evaporate. Therefore, when fluoridated water is boiled, the fluoride is not released (as is the case with the chlorine in our water), but instead it is concentrated, which means even higher dosages are taken. Unlike chlorinated water, fluoridated water has no distinctive odor; you can't smell it, taste it, or see it, so there is no way of knowing if you are being overdosed.

    * Fluoride is difficult to filter out of drinking water. Most home filters do not filter it out. To do this requires expensive reverse osmosis or distillation systems.

    * Even if fluoride did work well, and wasn't as highly toxic as it is, and didn't have additional highly toxic impurities, why should the government put it into our drinking water, making everyone ingest it? We don't do that with vitamin C, vitamin A, iron, calcium, or a host of other known essential nutrients. Why just fluoride? This is mass medication we are talking about.

    * Fluoride makes teeth harder but not stronger, and causes fluorosis, chalky-white spots, staining, and pitting. The problem is that in addition to the hardening, small pits appear, which become tiny fissures, which become larger cracks. This is akin to jumping from the frying pan (of dental cavities) into the fire (of fluorosis, and cracked teeth). Too much fluoride causes tooth enamel to soften and teeth to become more prone to cavities. The dangers of fluoride are well known and well documented. Even the US government knows this: On 9/1/00, in a twenty-two page response to the United States House Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment, Chairman, Charles Fox, Assistant Administrator US-EPA, admitted that after more than five decades of fluoridation at least tens of millions of Americans could be adversely affected by fluoridated drinking water. He goes on to say:

"POPULATIONS THAT ARE UNUSUALLY SUSCEPTIBLE
Existing data indicate that subsets of the population may be unusually susceptible to the effects of fluoride and its compounds. These populations include the elderly, people with deficiencies of calcium, magnesium and vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney problems.... Poor nutrition increases the incidence and severity of dental fluorosis and skeletal fluorosis."

Charles Fox, Toxicological Profile for Fluorides,
US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry,
1993 page 112 from http://www.gjne.com/fluoride

    * There are numerous studies which have found higher incidence of cavities in areas with fluoridated water than in areas with non-fluoridated water... also higher incidence of cancers.

    * Commercial Uses of Hydrofluorosilicic Acid

Sterilization of equipment
Electroplating
Tanning of animal hides
Ceramics and glass: Glass etching
Commercial Laundry: As a neutralizer for alkalis
Hardening of cement
Oil well acidizing
Rust and stain removal for textiles
Wood preservative
Water fluoridation

Note how this last use does not exactly fit in with the other industrial applications of the highly toxic chemical.

    * Two articles on mutations caused by fluoride: "Sodium Fluoride-induced Morphological and Neoplastic Transformation Chromosome Aberrations, Sister Chromatid Exchanges, and Unscheduled DNA Synthesis in Cultured Syrian Hamster Embryo Cells", Takeki Tsutsui, Nobuko Suzuki and Manabu Ohmori, Can Res, 44:938-941, 1984 (March) "Sodium Fluoride-induced Chromosome Aberrations in Different Stages of the Cell Cycle: A Proposed Mechanism", Marilyn J. Aardema, et al, Mutation Research, 223:191-203, 1989 The above titles say it all! -- Dr. Ted H. Spence, DDS, ND, PhD/DSc, MH http://www.mercola.com/1999/feb/21/fluoride_controversy.htm

For additional information, check out these websites:

http://www.gjne.com/cfsdwh
http://www.gjne.com/fluoride
http://www.citizens.org
http://www.fluoridealert.org
http://www.nofluoride.com
http://www.fluoridation.com
http://www.fluoride-journal.com (for health professionals)
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/hfacts.html
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/mcl.html
http://www.npwa.freeserve.co.uk
http://home.att.net/~gtigerclaw/EPAresponse.html

>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><< >

Huge Fluoride Spill in Pittsburgh,
PA National Response Center - Emergency Response Data

http://www.penweb.org/fluoride/chemicals/pittsburgh.html

Source: Fluoridation News
September 17, 1996

An 8,000 gallon capacity storage tank at the City of Pittsburgh water treatment plant split open on Saturday, September 14, pouring at least 5,000 gallons of hydrofluorosilicic acid into the Allegheny River. The tank had a weak seam in it. Officials are investigating purchase records to determine who was the manufacturer of the tank. One water treatment employee was overcome by fumes and taken to St. Margaret Memorial Hospital. The leak was discovered at 11:30 a.m. It took about 11 hours to transfer the rest of the hydrofluorosilicic acid to another storage tank. The fumes dissipated quickly because of windy weather. The Coast Guard issued a chemical spill advisory on the Allegheny River. Boating and all river traffic was halted.

My G/F Partner is a Dental Hygentist.  I hear a lot from her, and have shown her things that have made her change SOME of her views about fluoride.  

She agrees with the diet statement.  Unfortunately, most Americans (and other people in the world trending), have a diet that is incompatable with health in most ways.  There are places with little natural fluoride, no added, and a population with teeth that would make Hollywood Jealous.  Unfortunately, they are few and far between.   I don't use fluoride, and I drink fluoride free water.  BUT, I do have carries (cavities).  So I can't claim I've found the answer either.  In all truth, there is a benefit for the teeth with fluoride for 97% of the world.  I Have decided that it's not worth it for me.  But there are a whole lot of people who work in that field, do this for a living, who swear up and down that they see the differences.  My girlfriend has seen the effects of kids with bad diets and no fluoride.  There are parents giving their small kids soda and pop tarts, then putting them to bed with a bottle of MILK!!!   She sees kids all the time who's baby teeth have rotten out of their mouths.  If the doctors can give those kids fluoride, and it saves some of their teeth, I am all for it.  It's probably worth it at the point if you ask me.   There is an effect on the structure of the tooth.  It does help prevent cavities.  Unfortunately, it IS a poison as well.  So I don't take it.  But the truth is probably close to the middle in this debate than any one side.  It shouldn't be in our water though, in my and her opinions.  And it should be labled in mg/ on any food/drink product it is in by law imo.      But to say it should never be used, even topically in a dental office, is still a bit of a stretch if you read all the different points of view.  But, eat better, and you will have less problems!  Sugar is a food for the nasty's in your mouth.  Brush and floss well.   THere are lots of non fluoride toothpaste out there.  I like the tea tree kind the best myself.  

*P.S.   The reason they add it to the water, is for little kids (under 6 months I think, who's teeth are still forming before crowning), and for others who don't have access to dental care.   Kids who don't get topical fluorides, and eat the American Diet of poverty LOOSE THEIR TEETH.  So, if instead of say, bombing afganastan as part of our holy empire, we gave universal dental preventive care and cleanings to ALL children, they could take it out of the water supply.   Otherwise, it would be a disaster.  Our national food would have to change to PUDDING!

[donnay]

My G/F Partner is a Dental Hygentist.  I hear a lot from her, and have shown her things that have made her change SOME of her views about fluoride.  

She agrees with the diet statement.  Unfortunately, most Americans (and other people in the world trending), have a diet that is incompatable with health in most ways.  There are places with little natural fluoride, no added, and a population with teeth that would make Hollywood Jealous.  Unfortunately, they are few and far between.   I don't use fluoride, and I drink fluoride free water.  BUT, I do have carries (cavities).  So I can't claim I've found the answer either.  In all truth, there is a benefit for the teeth with fluoride for 97% of the world.  I Have decided that it's not worth it for me.  But there are a whole lot of people who work in that field, do this for a living, who swear up and down that they see the differences.  My girlfriend has seen the effects of kids with bad diets and no fluoride.  There are parents giving their small kids soda and pop tarts, then putting them to bed with a bottle of MILK!!!   She sees kids all the time who's baby teeth have rotten out of their mouths.  If the doctors can give those kids fluoride, and it saves some of their teeth, I am all for it.  It's probably worth it at the point if you ask me.   There is an effect on the structure of the tooth.  It does help prevent cavities.  Unfortunately, it IS a poison as well.  So I don't take it.  But the truth is probably close to the middle in this debate than any one side.  It shouldn't be in our water though, in my and her opinions.  And it should be labled in mg/ on any food/drink product it is in by law imo.      But to say it should never be used, even topically in a dental office, is still a bit of a stretch if you read all the different points of view.  But, eat better, and you will have less problems!  Sugar is a food for the nasty's in your mouth.  Brush and floss well.   THere are lots of non fluoride toothpaste out there.  I like the tea tree kind the best myself.  

*P.S.   The reason they add it to the water, is for little kids (under 6 months I think, who's teeth are still forming before crowning), and for others who don't have access to dental care.   Kids who don't get topical fluorides, and eat the American Diet of poverty LOOSE THEIR TEETH.  So, if instead of say, bombing afganastan as part of our holy empire, we gave universal dental preventive care and cleanings to ALL children, they could take it out of the water supply.   Otherwise, it would be a disaster.  Our national food would have to change to PUDDING!

There is NO PROOF whatsoever that SODIUM fluoride, which is a TOXIC WASTE, prevents tooth decay---if you would have looked over the information I provided below, you would see that there is a critical difference in "naturally occurring fluoride" and "sodium fluoride!"  Sodium flouride is what they put in tooth paste and municipalities water supplies across the country and it is a poison even in minuscule amounts.

[Nomadinexile]

There is NO PROOF whatsoever that SODIUM fluoride, which is a TOXIC WASTE, prevents tooth decay---if you would have looked over the information I provided below, you would see that there is a critical difference in "naturally occurring fluoride" and "sodium fluoride!"  Sodium flouride is what they put in tooth paste and municipalities water supplies across the country and it is a poison even in minuscule amounts.

NO PROOF?  REALLY?  I've been to ADA national yearly conferences, and talked with a lot of dentist.  THEY SEE IT.  THEY TELL ME THIS ONE ON ONE< IN PRIVATE.   

Btw, they normal dental office treatments are Sodium Fluoride (NaF) 2.0% or Acidulated Phosphate Fluoride 1.23% 

I still have a lot to learn, and I plan on reading more.  But I know honest dentists who (right or wrong) SEE the differences.  THEY ALMOST ALL give their kids FLUORIDE treatments. 

Natural Fluoride is toxic as well. 

Oh, and my GF, see's the difference in kids who get fluoride treatments and those that don't.  There is a big difference in Cavity levels.
Really.  That is surely effected by the diets and poverty of the parents who normally don't get treatments for their kids, but it can't account for all of it.  I don't think Natural fluoride should be in drinking water in any measurable amount anyway, but I would consider giving my kids treatments at the dentist growing up.   Again, I have a lot to read still.  But DENTISTs, SWEAR UP AND DOWN it works.
I think there is a conspiracy at the top, but don't think every dentist is a mouth piece for crest.  THey know the contraversey, and most of them care about their patients.   They care about their kids.  And you can't be an idiot and get through dental school either.  They look at this.  They talk about it.  MAYBE, THey are wrong.  But I don't think they are 100%.   I will look over your stuff though.  My girlfriend reads all this stuff too.   Convince me.  Heck, Lay it out for dentist in an honest and banging way, and they WILL stop using it.  But as long as they continue to see kids with bad cavities and no or little fluoride, and the kids who have it in their water and get treatments have cavity free or minimal cavities, you are gonna have a hard time convincing me YOU know better. 

NOW, if I can say that, but still say, I don't think it's good, and I don't consume it myself.  I do think its nasty stuff.  Dangerous as all get out.  But How can I say they are all wrong.  That my honest caring wonderful g/f who see's it is wrong?   It's gonna take actual proof.  Rotten mouths are nasty.  It's really bad when it's kids. 

They see it.  My G/F sees around 50 mouths a week and their charts.  How about you?

[aLLyOuRbAsE]

this has been a really interesting thread, thanks to everyone for providing information and opinions about fluoride and sodium fluoride, i have gained much understanding and have an increased desire to learn more for myself, so thanks.

i would like to ask, what are people's thoughts about sodium fluoride's affect on people, minus the dental side of it. whether we think on the rather benevolent side of fluoride being added in context of dental health, if its for some other ulterior motive, what do you think that motive is, and do you have any information in that regard?

thanks.

[Nomadinexile]

this has been a really interesting thread, thanks to everyone for providing information and opinions about fluoride and sodium fluoride, i have gained much understanding and have an increased desire to learn more for myself, so thanks.

i would like to ask, what are people's thoughts about sodium fluoride's affect on people, minus the dental side of it. whether we think on the rather benevolent side of fluoride being added in context of dental health, if its for some other ulterior motive, what do you think that motive is, and do you have any information in that regard?

thanks.

My personal opinion?  It was a mixture of scam to get rid of waste, and part effort to improve dental care.  Like everything else in our genetically modified country, they probably didn't nor haven't studied the long term negative effects thoroughly enough.  I personally feel like it's probably part of some peoples health problems.  You have to figure, if they have fluoride in water, on their toothpaste, in their sodas, in their milk, made into food, add in some topicals,   I DON'T think that is good.  You may or may not be able to eliminate it all.  But I don't think that is the end of the world.  You can see what the ADA recommends, then see if you can stay close to that.   If you can get down to that, you shouldn't have any major effects in my opinion.  *IM NOT AN EXPERT*   But I really worry about people who get it in their water, get topicals, do home treatments, have it in their paste, and then drink drinks full of it.  That's way too much.  But again, I have more to learn.  But I know that there are lots of decent dentist out there.  They wouldn't do it if they didn't see benefits for their patients.  Some certainly for money would.  But most would not.   If Half the dentist out there, didn't see any improvement in teeth, and only half of them spoke out about it... That would be 25% of dentist going don't do it, don't do it.   People would write papers in journals, online, in University's and tell their patients.  Trust me when I say this:  The ADA would have no problem silencing 5% of dentist.  They couldn't silence 25%.  It would be a huge scandal.  With more money in lawsuits than you could imagine.  They talk with each other.  I think if there was a huge concern about how well it worked, we would know....

[donnay]

This story has a beginning, it has a middle but it has no ending. The 'ending' will undoubtedly be written in countless hospital records, on tiny gravestones, in the bones of the crippled and on the hearts of the bereaved. Even so, the true cause of the 'ending' will never be advertised. One record that slipped past the establishment net is duplicated herein but, believe it or not, the existence of this 'death certificate' has been denied, in writing and to overseas scientific inquiry, by Australian administrators.

What follows is but a fractional part of the 'middle' of a story that began before the turn of the century and which was provoked by a statement contained in an 'Address in Reply to the Government's Speech to Parliament", as recorded in Victorian Hansard of 12 August 1987, by Mr Harley Rivers Dickinson, Liberal Party Member of the Victorian Parliament for South Barwon. Hence the title.

The relevant Hansard abstract is reproduced herewith. It is emphasised that the writer imputes Mr Dickinson with no other responsibility for the contents of this thesis than being the parliamentary 'trigger' which motivated it and the researched data which it contains.

 

    "At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Eliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farben chemical plants in Germany.

    "While there he was told by the German chemists of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff.

    "This was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.

    "Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotising a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him.

    "Both the Germans and the Russians added sodium fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners of war to make them stupid and docile."

Continue...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fluoride To Make Prisoners 'stupid & Docile
Categories
Environmental poisoning
Health through Nutrition
Practical Health
The Nature of Government

..."Some may think it's just a bunch of conspiracy fodder, but having read thousands of pages from hundreds of documents, both historical and from research, there's no doubt in my mind that fluoride is deadly and explains much about why Americans are so apathetic and lethargic about the very real dangers crushing our Republic. The American people simply have no will to resist and you can see it all across this country. Fluoride was introduced into the drinking water in this country around 1954. Think about it."....

This article may be hard for some to swallow (pun intended) however, those who have studied the subject will find it well worth reading, Fluoride compounds are a the darling of the drug industry. Hence one can find many drugs rife with fluorides. These include SSRI's (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors) all the way to some cholesterol drugs such as Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa to Lipitor. It appears that the judicial use of this toxin can have many effects all the way from Stupidity...docility to even aggression...

see also: Fluoride and Aggression

Chris Gupta


GERMANS & RUSSIANS USED FLUORIDE TO MAKE PRISONERS 'STUPID & DOCILE
By: Devvy
May 14, 2005

"To whom it may concern: I, Oliver Kenneth Goff, was a member of the Communist Party and the Young Communist League from May 2, 1936 to October 9, 1939. During this period of time, I operated under the alias of John Keats and the number 18-B-2. My testimony before the Government is incorporated in Volume 9 of the Un-American Activities Report for the year 1939.

"While a member of the Communist Party, I attended Communist underground training schools outside the City of New York in the Bues Hall and 113 East Wells Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The East Wells Street School operated under the name of the Eugene Debs School. Here, under the tutoring of Eugene Dennis, M. Sparks, Morris Chyilds, Jack Kling and others, we were schooled in the art of revolutionary overthrow of the established Government.

"We discussed quite thoroughly the fluoridation of water supplies and how we were using it in Russia as a tranquilizer in the prison camps. The leaders of our school felt that if it could be induced into the American water supply, it would bring about a spirit of lethargy in the nation; where it would keep the general public docile during a steady encroachment of Communism. We also discussed the fact that keeping a store of deadly fluoride near the water reservoir would be advantageous during the time of the revolution, as it would give us opportunity to dump this poison into the water supply and either kill off the populace or threaten them with liquidation, so that they would surrender to obtain fresh water.

"We discussed in these schools, the complete art of revolution: the seizure of the main utilities, such as light, power, gas and water, but it was felt by the leadership that if a program of fluoridating the water could be carried out in the nation, it would go a long way toward the advancement of the revolution." Oliver Kenneth Goff, 1957

Matrix III - Volume Two - Use of Sodium Fluoride for Population Behavior Control

"It is a matter of record that sodium fluoride has been used for behavior control of populations. In an "Address in reply to the Governor's Speech to Parliament," [Victorian Hanstard, August 12, 1987, Nexus, Aug/Sept 1995], Mr. Harley Rivers Dickinson, Liberal Party Member of the Victorian Parliament for South Barwon, Australia, made a statement on the historical use of fluorides for behavior control.

"Mr. Dickinson reveals that, "At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Elliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farven chemical plants in Germany. While there, he was told by German chemists of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff. This scheme was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme, sodium fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotising a certain area of the brain, and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. Both the Germans and the Russians added fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners of war to make them stupid and docile."

"According to Chemical Engineering News in 1988, each year in the United States, 80,000 tons of hydrofluosilicic acid, 60,000 tons of sodium silicofluoride and 3,000 tons of sodium fluorides are put into public water supplies (Chemical Engineering News, Vol 66, August 1, 1988, pg. 39). In view of all known research, it would be safe and accurate to rephrase the previous sentence and say that each year the United States Government allows 143,000 tons of fluoride products to be added to public water supplies in order to numb, disempower, and render docile a large percentage of the population. Present estimates in 1995 run about 200,000 tons annually. Now, why on earth would any oligarchic group (a small group) want to do this to tens of millions of people, deliberately and knowingly?

"All of these fluoride chemicals are byproducts of the aluminum and chemical fertilization industries that are considered to be hazardous wastes by the EPA, says the scientific assessment of the health risks of fluorides in 1985 "omits 90% of the literature which suggests fluoride is a mutagen - causes cellular and genetic mutation." (Water Fluoridation: A Case of Truth Decay). Several scientists in the United States and other countries have done research or written reports questioning the benefits of water fluoridation or suggesting health risks, were discouraged by their employers from actually publishing their findings."

Anyone who questions the use of fluoride in the drinking water is labeled a nut case. Fluoride helps prevent tooth decay!

I have been drinking bottled water for 30 years. In 1991, I woke up and besides researching the "Federal" Reserve, the IRS, the UN and other one world government mechanisms, I also began looking at the fluoride issue. In 1993, I had all the metal fillings removed from my teeth and my daughter's. These metal fillings were replaced with gold; a very expensive undertaking. We also stopped using any products with fluoride, i.e. toothpaste, mouthwash and any application from our dentist. The difference in our dental health changed dramatically.

My mother, her brother and my grandparents (from Sicily) never used toothpaste in their lifetime, they used baking soda. Same as my father's side of the family who came over from Munich. Both sets of grandparents died with all their teeth and never had gum disease. My mom and my uncle both have their own teeth, no bridges, no root canals, no gum disease. To this day, they use baking soda. They live in areas where the water has never been fluoridated. My four brothers and sisters have all had gum disease to some degree and huge problems with their teeth. They all use products with fluoride, all have metal fillings and two of them still drink tap water. I find these differences interesting.

Some may think it's just a bunch of conspiracy fodder, but having read thousands of pages from hundreds of documents, both historical and from research, there's no doubt in my mind that fluoride is deadly and explains much about why Americans are so apathetic and lethargic about the very real dangers crushing our Republic. The American people simply have no will to resist and you can see it all across this country. Fluoride was introduced into the drinking water in this country around 1954. Think about it.

Add into the mix the millions of gallons of diet soda pop consumed by Americans every day, ingesting deadly aspartame, also contained in more than 5,000 food products being eaten everyday, along with Splenda to "sweeten" and what you have is a population loading their bodies with deadly poisons. See the video 'Sweet Misery'

While I haven't drank more than a half dozen cans of soda in my entire life, I did use toothpaste and mouthwash which contains fluoride until 1993 when I made major changes. Everyday I thank God for my good health, but I also have worked very hard at staying healthy and keeping my weight within seven pounds from the day I graduated from high school. It's not easy, but it all boils down to will power, self control and a desire not to be a burden to myself or my family in my later years.

Education is everything. Research means giving up your fun times to thoroughly explore an issue. I have taken the time to scan several documents which contain thoroughly researched documentation and data on fluoride. Dentists all across this country will tell you that fluoride is good for your teeth and gums. City fathers will continue to tell you fluoridating the drinking water is good for you. Most of them refuse to even look at all the scientific research that's available. Thousands of cities across this country fluoridate their water. Conversely, hundreds of of cities in the U.S. refuse to fluoridate their water and dozens of countries refuse to poison their citizenry by fluoridating their water supply.

For the sake of your health and your family, I urge you to take the time to read all this important, fully documented research. You will see the major players and recognize names and companies (like Alcoa) who have been involved in this fluoride scam for decades. Americans deserve the truth and they deserve accurate information so they can make informed choices. Also, read the book The Fluoride Deception.

[SUPREMEMASTER]

--I don't have $1,000 for the EcoloBlue, so I buy and drink one gallon bottles of water for 82c each.--

You know, you could just try Berky water filters

Alex Jones used to advertise them all the time.

[Seraphic]

You know, you could just try Berky water filters

Alex Jones used to advertise them all the time.

Yeah, he doesn't advertise them anymore for some reason.
Anyway, looking at the prices, they run about $340 to $400.
Those are for the Four Purification Elements versions.
Which I guess you would want for best possible water.
They don't list they remove Fluoride though, do they?

[planning4acrash]

Calcium fluoride is not so bad. What you should be concerned about is the BPA in the plastic. Maybe try getting an under counter reverse osmosis filter, for much less than an ecoloblue, or, a berkey. But most importantly, get organized with local groups. We simply HAVE to get control of our water supply.

[aLLyOuRbAsE]

We simply HAVE to get control of our water supply.

deep.

[Outer Haven]

Poland Springs has fluoride in some of their water...be careful!

"Poland Spring® Brand Natural Spring Water with Added Fluoride contains up to 0.8 mg/l of fluoride, which is recommended as beneficial by the American Dental Association. Featuring a nonremovable, child-safe twist cap, the 8 oz. fluoridated combines the great-tasting spring water with the benefits of fluoride. It’s the one designed with kids in mind."

If swallowing (sodium) fluoride is so great for your health, then why the health do tooth pastes have a warning on them not to swallow it because it contains it...?

[aLLyOuRbAsE]

If swallowing (sodium) fluoride is so great for your health, then why the health do tooth pastes have a warning on them not to swallow it because it contains it...?

i think (from what ive gathered from this thread) is that there is a difference between naturally occuring fluorides and sodium fluoride, but i dont claim to have any specific knowledge on the subject....

[donnay]

If swallowing (sodium) fluoride is so great for your health, then why the health do tooth pastes have a warning on them not to swallow it because it contains it...?

I hear you!  Sodium fluoride is a toxic waste--period.  Nothing good for your health about it.

Hey, what happened to Nomadinexile?

[independentWV]

http://www.holisticmed.com/fluoride
Fluoridation / Fluoride
Toxic Chemicals In Your Water

Fluoride compounds which are put in water (fluoridation), toothpaste and supplement tablets (including some vitamins) were never tested for safety before approval. Recent independent research by scientists not associated with dental trade organizations has shown the following:

   1. Neurotoxic and Lowers IQ
      In 1995, neurotoxicologist and former Director of toxicology at Forsyth Dental Center in Boston, Dr. Phyllis Mullenix published research showing that fluoride built up in the brains of animals when exposed to moderate levels. Damage to the brain occured and the behavior patterns of the animals was adversely effected. Offspring of pregnant animals receiving relatively low doses of fluoride showed permanent effects to the brain which were seen as hyperactivity (ADD-like symptoms). Young animals and adult animals given fluoride experienced the opposite effect -- hypoactivity or sluggishness. The toxic effects of fluoride on the central nervous system was subsequently confirmed by previously-classified government research. Two new epidemiological studies which tend to confirm fluoride's neurotoxic effects on the brain have shown that children exposed to higher levels of fluoride had lower IQs.

   2. A study published in Brain Research shows that rats drinking only 1 part per million fluoride (NaF) in water had histologic lesions in their brain similar to Alzheimer's disease and dementia. In addition, evidence was seen pointing to possible damage to the blood brain barrier from extended fluoride exposure. This study was the third in a series of papers published by Varner et al. Brain Research Vol. 784 No. 12 p 284-298 (1998). Results of this recent study and other studies showing significant dangers from low-level fluoride exposure were presented at a recent scientific symposium.

   3. Causes Cancer
      The Department of Health in New Jersey found that bone cancer in male children was between two and seven times greater in areas where water was fluoridated. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) researchers confirmed the bone cancer-causing effects of fluoride at low levels in an animal model. A new study has shown that fluoridation of water is linked to uterine cancer deaths.

   4. Changes Bone Structure and Strength
      Fluoride gradually builds up in the bones and causes adverse changes to the bone structure. Quite a few studies have shown that fluoridation leads to increases in hip fractures. The tensile strength of the hip is destroyed over time by fluoride ingestion.

   5. Causes Birth Defects and Perinatal Deaths
      A toxicologist in the United Kingdom recently found that perinatal deaths in a fluoridated area was 15% higher than in neighboring non-fluoridated areas. The fluoridated area had a higher socio-economic status and would have been expected to have less perinatal deaths. The fluoridated area also had a 30% higher rate of Down's Syndrome. Chile banned fluoridation because of research by the world-reknowned researcher, Dr Albert Schatz, which showed a link to infant deaths due to fluoridation.

   6. Proven Ineffective
      Fluoride compounds in water and in supplements do not provide any significant cavity-protecting effects. All of the recent large-scale studies of water fluoridation have shown that there are no positive effects. That is why countries without fluoridation have shown an equal improvement in dental health as those with fluoridation. (See Research Item #5.) There is scientific evidence that excessive fluoride exposure leads to increased levels of caries. Even pro-fluoridation scientists admit that there is not any properly-conducted research showing that fluoride supplements help prevent cavities. (Note: check vitamins carefully to be sure they do not include fluoride.)

   7. Impairs Immune System
      Independent research has shown that fluoride impairs the functioning of the immune system. In the United States, where toxic fluoride compounds are regularly added to water and given to children since the 1960s and 1970s, we are beginning to see an overwhelming number of people of that generation who are developing chronic immune system disorders.

   8. Causes Acute Adverse Reactions
      Several double-blind studies have shown that fluoridated water can often cause acute adverse reactions (in addition to the chronic poisoning effects discussed below). Some of the effects seen in double-blind studies include: gastrointestinal symptoms, stomatitis, joint pains, polydipsia, headaches, visual disturbances, muscular weakness, and extreme tiredness. An enlightening review of a book by one famous and well-respected researcher from The Netherlands who found adverse reactions in double-blind experiments can be read here.

   9. Causes Initial Stages of Skeletal Fluorosis
      Fluoride can cause severe skeletal fluorosis at high levels. Chronic, long-term exposure to levels of fluoride commonly found in water and food in the U.S. can cause the beginning stages of skeletal fluorosis including: pains in bones and joints, sensations of burning, pricking, and tingling in the limbs, muscle weakness, chronic fatigue, gastrointestinal disorders, reduced appetite, backache, osteoarthritis, etc. In fact, decades of ingestion of fluoride from water and other common sources can be expected to cause these symptoms in large numbers of people based on calculations of fluoride intake and excretion. (Keep in mind that fluoride is a cumulative poison since it builds up in the body of years.) Very few healthcare practitioners are capable of diagnosing such a condition because healthcare practitioners are not trained to test for or recognize the effects chronic poisoning from fluoride.

  10. Increases Lead and Arsenic Exposure
      Fluoride compounds put into water are often contaminated with lead, arsenic and radio nuclides since the fluoride compounds are toxic waste byproducts which largely come from pollution scrubbers of fertilizer plants. A study published in 2000 showed that the dumping of toxic silicofluoride compounds into water ("fluoridation") causes an increase in blood lead levels in children.

  11. Fluoride Causes Osteoarthritis
      In a study published in Rhuematology International in 2001, researchers found a link between fluoride exposure and the development of osteoarthritis. The level of exposure that caused osteoarthritis is common in the United States.

  12. Contributes to the Development of Repetitive Stress Injury
      A clinical study in New Zealand showed that fluoride ingestion may be a contributing factor in the development of Repetative Stress Injury (RSI) since such ingestion may encourage the development of apatite crystal formation. Elimination of fluoride plus regular supplementation of magnesium appeared to help RSI patients considerably.

  13. Causes Permanent Disfigurement of the Teeth in Many Children
      A very large and increasing number of children are experiencing dental fluorosis which is a permanent adverse structural change to the teeth.

  14. Inhibits Key Enzymes
      As fluoride builds up in different parts of the body over decades it can disrupt the actions of many key enzymes. This fact has been known for a long time.

  15. Supresses Thyroid Function
      Fluoride was given at low levels during the early to mid 20th century as an effective way of supressing thyroid function and treating hyperthyroidism. Articles and research can be found on the Thyroid web page.

  16. Causes Large Numbers of Acute Poisonings
      Fluoride is an extremely poisonous substances at exceptionally low doses and has caused a large number of acute poisonings. This is why a poison warning is now required on fluoridated toothpastes sold in the U.S.

  17. Independent Experts Oppose Dumping Fluoride Into Water
      Over 1500 professionals at the US EPA, including toxicologists and risk assessment experts voted unanimously to oppose the fluoridation initiative in California because of the health risks involved. See summary or official EPA union statement. Even the Candian Dental Association Consultant and Researcher urged people to avoid drinking fluoridated water.

  18. Unethical
      Fluoridation amounts to forced medication of the water supply. Such practices demonstrate a complete lack of ethics on the part of its promoters. Studies as early the 1930s showed extreme hazards to man and the environment due to fluoride dumping and exposure. Companies and organizations involved used the promotion of "fluoridation" as a way to avoid lawsuits due to dumping toxic wastes and later for economic gain. Please read the short history of fluoridation for more detailed information.

  19. Banned in Many Countries
      Fluoridation is not legal or not used in the overwhelming number of countries including industrialized countries. Please see Fluoride Status of Countries web page.

[Djævlen]

^ great post, all the points laid out nicely.

[LibertyPrevails]

i think (from what ive gathered from this thread) is that there is a difference between naturally occuring fluorides and sodium fluoride, but i dont claim to have any specific knowledge on the subject....

Calcium fluoride is a lot better than sodium fluoride. Calcium fluoride is what they originally claimed it was when it was being introduced, as a means to trick people into accepting it. Namely dentistry officials. Alex discussed a Canadian dentistry official who fell victim to this, approving it for usage in Canada.