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Author Topic: Tarpley and Paul: Like Jefferson and Adams?  (Read 1294 times)
squarepusher
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« on: November 29, 2009, 02:37:25 AM »

Well, Webster Tarpley is also against Peter Schiff - so I don't see how merely running 'against' a candidate makes him to be automatically bad. There can be some sincere disagreements over economic policy - and Webster Tarpley talked a lot about how the Austrian school were the most vicious rent gauchers and practitioners of institutionalized wage slavery in all of economic history - and that the Chicago school is basically an Americanized/dumbed-down version of that.

I am suspicious of the NGOs behind Nader, though.
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 05:22:06 AM »

Well, Webster Tarpley is also against Peter Schiff - so I don't see how merely running 'against' a candidate makes him to be automatically bad. There can be some sincere disagreements over economic policy - and Webster Tarpley talked a lot about how the Austrian school were the most vicious rent gauchers and practitioners of institutionalized wage slavery in all of economic history - and that the Chicago school is basically an Americanized/dumbed-down version of that.

I am suspicious of the NGOs behind Nader, though.

no one automatically anything, this thread backs up its statements. where did you see anyone automatically doing anything? can you include reference to what tarpley has said so that perhaps we may understand it? thanks
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2009, 06:43:13 AM »

no one automatically anything, this thread backs up its statements. where did you see anyone automatically doing anything? can you include reference to what tarpley has said so that perhaps we may understand it? thanks

Well, it's been a recurring motif in his 'World Crisis Radio' talks. He says Peter Schiff is one of these Austrian school 'free market' ideologues that Webster likes to talk derisively about for days on end. He took issue with his association to the 'Ludwig Von Mises Institute' and his business ventures.

But essentially, Webster Tarpley basically dismisses the entire Ron-Paul/Peter Schiff free-market school on the basis that the 'free market' has never existed and that their solutions - if they want to go back to the principles of Von Mises and Von Hayek - would be such a catastrophic step backwards it would leave little of the country. He does support Ron Paul's 'Audit the Fed' bill and he is in support of Ron Paul in so much as that he is a wrecking ball in the Republican Party - but nothing more.
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2009, 07:02:44 AM »

Well, it's been a recurring motif in his 'World Crisis Radio' talks. He says Peter Schiff is one of these Austrian school 'free market' ideologues that Webster likes to talk derisively about for days on end. He took issue with his association to the 'Ludwig Von Mises Institute' and his business ventures.

But essentially, Webster Tarpley basically dismisses the entire Ron-Paul/Peter Schiff free-market school on the basis that the 'free market' has never existed and that their solutions - if they want to go back to the principles of Von Mises and Von Hayek - would be such a catastrophic step backwards it would leave little of the country. He does support Ron Paul's 'Audit the Fed' bill and he is in support of Ron Paul in so much as that he is a wrecking ball in the Republican Party - but nothing more.

I've heard the same from Tarpley.  He's called Ron Paul a "fascist" and probably still subscribes to most of La Rouche's socialist agenda, even though he's publicly denounced them as shills.  He's under the delusion that FDR didn't precipitate World War II and the socialists haven't been out to destroy the middle class since their inception.  He may seem like a smart guy, and can spew out the facts-but when it comes to his analysis of history he's got several screws loose.  Some of his solutions might seem good-like a Tobin Tax-but that penalizes the small time speculator along with Goldman Sachs who would probably use some scheme to circumvent the tax anyway.  Also he ascribes the phrase "general welfare" in the constitution to mean "government healthcare", given that definition it could also mean "government food, clothing, shelter and a groom of the stool for everyone"

Also Peter Schiff has said he wants more people to enter the race and increase his odds.  Whether that will happen remains to be seen.
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009, 07:08:03 AM »

Well, it's been a recurring motif in his 'World Crisis Radio' talks. He says Peter Schiff is one of these Austrian school 'free market' ideologues that Webster likes to talk derisively about for days on end. He took issue with his association to the 'Ludwig Von Mises Institute' and his business ventures.

But essentially, Webster Tarpley basically dismisses the entire Ron-Paul/Peter Schiff free-market school on the basis that the 'free market' has never existed and that their solutions - if they want to go back to the principles of Von Mises and Von Hayek - would be such a catastrophic step backwards it would leave little of the country. He does support Ron Paul's 'Audit the Fed' bill and he is in support of Ron Paul in so much as that he is a wrecking ball in the Republican Party - but nothing more.

You know, I have seen a lot of evidence of this exploitation of innuendo to create rifts in the truth movement before.  Ron Paul and Peter Schiff are not fundamental extremists, but are rational free thinkers. There are some manufactured provocateured articles that have appeared on mises in the past (I know because I have read that site for a long time now) similar to provocateured articles on other sites. But to say that because Tarpley does not support "rand-holes" (people who blindly follow some pie in the sky utopian belief that the right free market leader will allow all roads to be paved in gold) does not mean that he believes Peter Schiff is an inferior candidate for Senate than Chris Dodd. I have included over 30 videos of Peter Schiff over 2 years ago plus some now that show you from the source what the man is saying. So if it would not be too much trouble, could you simply provide me with one clip concerning your use of Tarpley as a mechanism to say that Peter Schiff engages in unsound economic discourse?
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 11:11:10 AM »

You know, I have seen a lot of evidence of this exploitation of innuendo to create rifts in the truth movement before.  Ron Paul and Peter Schiff are not fundamental extremists, but are rational free thinkers. There are some manufactured provocateured articles that have appeared on mises in the past (I know because I have read that site for a long time now) similar to provocateured articles on other sites. But to say that because Tarpley does not support "rand-holes" (people who blindly follow some pie in the sky utopian belief that the right free market leader will allow all roads to be paved in gold) does not mean that he believes Peter Schiff is an inferior candidate for Senate than Chris Dodd. I have included over 30 videos of Peter Schiff over 2 years ago plus some now that show you from the source what the man is saying. So if it would not be too much trouble, could you simply provide me with one clip concerning your use of Tarpley as a mechanism to say that Peter Schiff engages in unsound economic discourse?

Check out the shows from today to two weeks ago - I'm not sure which exact one it was, but in one show he brings up the name Peter Schiff and he basically makes some mocking commentary about him: "Oh yeah, you definitely want to follow his advice alright - all the way over the cliff". And that is paraphrasing here - not an exact quote - but it were not exactly flattering words.

And Webster Tarpley has continually ripped into Ron Paul for saying he follows Von Hayek and von Mises - that he finds utterly despicable. So I think when you say Tarpley is just criticizing 'Rand-holes' (Rand as in 'Ayn Rand'), I think you're forgetting or overlooking the fact here that Webster Tarpley includes Ron Paul and Peter Schiff into that exact same category as well. To him, Ron Paul is the personification of an 'Ayn Rand freak'.
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 11:26:59 AM »

Check out the shows from today to two weeks ago - I'm not sure which exact one it was, but in one show he brings up the name Peter Schiff and he basically makes some mocking commentary about him: "Oh yeah, you definitely want to follow his advice alright - all the way over the cliff". And that is paraphrasing here - not an exact quote - but it were not exactly flattering words.

And Webster Tarpley has continually ripped into Ron Paul for saying he follows Von Hayek and von Mises - that he finds utterly despicable. So I think when you say Tarpley is just criticizing 'Rand-holes' (Rand as in 'Ayn Rand'), I think you're forgetting or overlooking the fact here that Webster Tarpley includes Ron Paul and Peter Schiff into that exact same category as well. To him, Ron Paul is the personification of an 'Ayn Rand freak'.

your use of adjectives to describe the statements by Tarpley has little effect without the actual dialog. Please provide an actual transcript and clip, how is this so difficult. Tarpley says many things and offers great critique of everythingh, it does not mean that people's arguments are not based on rationality. This is exactlyt the methods that we have been conditionede to use to keep the barbarians from coming together. Why would you be using these tactics here without any supporting information. Either you really do not care about this issue and just enjoy dropping innuendo on this forum or you do care but the raw evidence does not support your arguments.

I have provided over 30 pieces of evidence supporting my arguments, why do you find it impossible to provide one piece of evidence supporting your outlandish conspiracy theories?
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 11:39:11 AM »

End Wall Street bankers rule – End the derivatives depression
Webster Tarpley: End the Fed
 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11103
By Webster G. Tarpley
 
The November 22 End the Fed rallies raise a vital issue: it is past time to abolish the unconstitutional, illegal, and failed institution known as the Federal Reserve System, the privately owned central bank which has been looting and wrecking the US economy for almost a hundred years. We must end a system where unelected, unaccountable cliques of bankers and financiers loyal to names like Morgan, Rockefeller, and Mellon set interest rates and money supply behind closed doors, leading to de-industrialization, mass impoverishment, and a world economic and financial depression of incalculable severity. The Fed helped cause the crash of 1929, did nothing to stop the banking panic of 1932-33, and is the main cause of the $1.5 QUADRILLION derivatives crisis which is devastating the world. The Federal Reserve System is Wall Street's murder weapon against the United States , and the Fed must be stopped.
 
The purpose of abolishing the Fed is to get re-industrialization, economic modernization, full employment, and rising standards of living for all the people. Contrary to monetarist fetishes, the value and soundness of currency in the modern world are determined by the ability of a national economy to produce physical commodities that the rest of the world wants to buy. The decline of the dollar has its roots in the wanton destruction of the US industrial base initiated by the Trilateral administration of Jimmy Carter and Feds boss Paul Adolph Volcker with his 22% prime rate. Over the past forty years, the US standard of living has declined by two thirds, and the country has become a post-industrial rubble field, a moonscape monument to the folly of a post-industrial service economy. If you want to go back to sound money, you must gear up modern industrial production so that the world will need dollars to buy goods manufactured in this country. No amount of gold will do the trick.
 
Gold has a critical role to play in a new international currency system, but returning to a gold coin standard would create the most ferocious deflation of all time. Got any credit card debt? If you do, a gold coin standard would make it infinitely harder to ever pay it off. You would be slaving for the rest of your life to pay off a $5,000 credit card balance, or less.
 
The United States is blessed by the world's greatest tradition of economics, the American System of political and national economy. Contrary to monetarist mythology, the American System never had anything to do with free trade or “free markets.” It is a tradition of protectionism, mercantilism, and dirigism. It starts with Governor Winthrop of Massachusetts Bay in the 1600s, who promoted industry and launched a sovereign currency. Benjamin Franklin, the founder of the post office, was another dirigist. George Washington was always devoted to infrastructure projects, and Alexander Hamilton created the First Bank of the United States, without which the new nation would have collapsed into poverty, chaos, and a return of British monetarist rule. The Second BUS was created by James Madison, again to ward off chaos. Henry Clay coined the term of The American System, and it meant a national bank, a protective tariff, and national infrastructure financed by the federal government. Daniel Webster tried to create a third BUS, and when he fell short the slide into slave power and civil war resulted. Friedrich List, Matthew Carey, Henry Carey, and Justin Morrill were American System economists who influenced or advised Lincoln. The rise of the US as the world's greatest industrial power came thanks to a protective tariff and a controlled currency, the greenbacks. When Wall Street imposed the Cross of Gold, the American System tradition was continued by the Populist Party. The New Deal, the fruit of mass struggles and the rise of the labor movement, provided a way out of the Herbert Hoover depression by forcing the Morgan-controlled Fed to knuckle under to the FDR presidency. JFK tried to revive the New Deal and break the power of the Fed, and was assassinated by the financiers with the help of the CIA.
 
Monetarists pretend that this history does not exist. Their hero is Andrew Jackson, whose hare-brained meddling caused the Panic of 1837 and shut down US economic development, putting the country firmly on course for the Civil War two decades later. When they talk about the constitution, monetarists seem to be working off the Confederate constitution of 1861, which eliminated the General Welfare clause, and ruled out a protective tariff. During the 19th century, the free trade party was the pro-British slavery party. Monetarist dogma is a mix of Herbert Hoover, Robert Taft (of the Skull & Bones family), Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and other reactionary Republicans. Monetarism is based on the von Hayek-von Mises Austrian school, which started when a bunch of rent-gouging Viennese landlords wanted to abolish rent control and hired some scribblers to prove that “the market” was always infallible and government is always the enemy. Von Hayek got his chance under the reactionary old battle axe Margaret Thatcher, who brought back rickets, scurvy and pellagra for British working people. The dumbed-down US version of the same doctrine is Milton Friedman and his Rockefeller-funded Chicago School, which got its big road test under the fascist Pinochet regime in Chile.
 
MONETARISM CAUSED TODAY'S WORLD ECONOMIC DEPRESSION
Today's depression has been caused by 40 years of monetarist-inspired deregulation. Derivatives were illegal from 1936 until Reagan legalized them in 1982. Then Wendy Gramm, Greenspan, Bob Rubin, and Larry Summers teamed up to start the derivatives bubble during the Clinton years. Now there are $1.5 quadrillion of derivatives strangling the world economy. Derivatives, not subprime mortgages, are the reason for today's crisis. Today's depression also comes from privatization – like the privatization of Fannie Mae, which worked fine for thirty years as a government agency, but was then privatized, opening the door to the looting excesses which are now well known. The oil market is deregulated, and Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley were quick to exploit this situation. This past summer, when you were paying over $4 a gallon for gas, more than half of that was going directly to Wall Street hedge fund hyenas, with a full $1 per gallon for Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley alone, the backers of the deregulated offshore ICE exchange.
 
The real enemies of economic progress are the Wall Street bankers, financiers, and finance oligarchs. If you let them control the government, the results are catastrophic. We must therefore fight to take government out of the hands of the bankers. Any other strategy amounts to surrender to Obama and his fascist corporate state.
 
HOW TO END THE DEPRESSION WITH A RETURN TO THE AMERICAN SYSTEM
1. Wipe out derivatives, destroying the largest mass of fictitious capital the world has ever known. This includes credit default swaps, mortgage backed securities, structured investment vehicles, collateralized debt obligations, repo agreements, and other toxic paper. Outlaw hedge funds. Outlaw adjustable rate mortgages. Stop all foreclosures. Seize bankrupt banks, brokerages, and insurance companies and put them through debt triage under Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings. Re-establish the uptick rule against short sellers. Stop speculators with position limits and margin requirements for oil and other energy markets. Stop exporting jobs to third world sweatshops under NAFTA, CAFTA, and WTO.
 
2. Seize control of the Federal Reserve System and nationalize it as a bureau of the US Treasury. Decisions about money supply and interest rates must be made by public laws, passed by the House and the Senate and signed by the President. Re-start the US economy by issuing an initial tranche of $1 trillion in cheap 0.5% to 1% federal credit – federal lending, not spending – to state and local governments as well as to private companies engaged physical production. Production means infrastructure, manufacturing, mining, construction, farming, forestry, transportation, and commerce in tangible goods. Productive activities qualify for 1% or less federal credit. Gambling, narcotics, prostitution, financial speculation, speculation, and money laundering are not productive, so they must take their chances in the free market they claim to admire so much. A centerpiece of a recovery program would be the rebuilding of rail systems, water systems, electrical grids, and the interstate highways, all of which are approaching the point of physical breakdown. Nationalize the Big Three auto companies and reconvert them for mass transit.
 
3. We must keep Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, food stamps, Head Start, WIC, and the remaining parts of the social safety net fully funded, since IRA/401k accounts and private insurance will increasingly be wiped out. Federal emergency relief on the model of FERA, CWA, and WPA will soon be needed. Any cuts in these programs will lead to death on a vast scale, especially among the old, the sick, and the very young. Monetarist ideologues who sneer at the nanny state should tell us where they stand when it comes to the very real threat of genocide against the American people.
 
4. Abolish the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, and set up a new world monetary system based on full employment through the revival of industrial production.
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 11:40:51 AM »

Both these guys (Like Kucinich and Schiff) are guided by a central theme of the rights of man and the foundation of liberty.

Their methods of achieving the goals that they believe in may differ but they both seem to have similar intentions.  Could they be the Jefferson and Adams of our time?
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 12:13:04 AM »

your use of adjectives to describe the statements by Tarpley has little effect without the actual dialog. Please provide an actual transcript and clip, how is this so difficult. Tarpley says many things and offers great critique of everythingh, it does not mean that people's arguments are not based on rationality. This is exactlyt the methods that we have been conditionede to use to keep the barbarians from coming together. Why would you be using these tactics here without any supporting information. Either you really do not care about this issue and just enjoy dropping innuendo on this forum or you do care but the raw evidence does not support your arguments.

I have provided over 30 pieces of evidence supporting my arguments, why do you find it impossible to provide one piece of evidence supporting your outlandish conspiracy theories?

'outlandish conspiracy theories' - haha, that's a good one. So just because Webster Tarpley rips into Peter Schiff and I'm telling you that he did on his show, I'm the 'conspiracy theorist'. Whatever dude.

It's not my fault if Webster Tarpley thinks Paul and Schiff are both bad news - which he thinks they are.

I am NOT USING ANY TACTICS HERE - MERELY STATING WHAT IT IS HE IS SAYING ABOUT PAUL AND SCHIFF.

Go on, listen to the shows yourself - if you had actually bothered to listen to the shows from the past few months, you wouldn't be needing any supporting information from me here - it would be self-evident to you as to what Tarpley thinks about the Austrian school and Ron Paul and Peter Schiff.

I'm getting a bit sick of the naval-gazing here and the instant knee-jerk reaction of 'Oh you're a divider - you're using tactics here to divide people' - c'mon folks - get a grip - different people have different opinions on different subjects - and in the case of economic policy, there's such a difference of opinion between Tarpley and Ron Paul.

Webster Tarpley even disagrees with Ron Paul when he says "Health care is not a right" - even that he disagrees with him with. There isn't much he agrees with him on - perhaps the Audit the Fed bill.

In another talk Webster Tarpley said that the free-market libertarians needed to get a grip and just accept that they will need to pay taxes to the government.

As for 'where can you find out' - well, it's all over his talks and his videos. Here is one example though (watch the talk in full)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7916497706221999239&ei=b3ITS-7TNouW-Aas-enqCg&q=Webster+Tarpley&hl=nl&client=firefox-a#

I think there's a Part 2 of this somewhere - in any case, he says here that Ron Paul is bad news, and that the libertarians just have to accept paying taxes and supporting more progressive economic policies.

And for the record, I can see kinda where he is coming from. There's a lot in Ron Paul's message that I support - there's a lot in Webster Tarpley's message that I can agree on. It shouldn't be a polar opposite here - we could mix things of both schools.
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 12:30:57 AM »

Sane - in that video, go to 27:30 and 33:00.
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 02:19:25 AM »

Just a couple of slight corrections -- and one major bone to pick -- with Alex's interview with Web Tarpley on yesterday's show.

One correction (actually an additional tidbit) concerning the point that the Emir of Dubai chose to announce Dubai's potential default upon international obligations on the weekend celebrated in the US as Thanksgiving weekend, which is a remembrance of the Separatist Dissenters from the Church of England who settled in Massachusetts in 1620 in order to create a new society in which they could freely practice their religion (a revolutionary act at the time, seeing as there was then no separation between Church and State).  I'm quite certain that this coincidence was intended by the Emir, but, according to CNBC, last Thursday was also the first day of a four-day Islamic holiday, so closure of the markets in the Arab world in the wake of the announcement would also be assured.  (Seeing as the collapse of Dubai has been foreseen for some time, both by Dr. Tarpley and by the Rev. Lindsay Williams' informant, I wonder how long His Grace the Emir sat on this dynamite waiting for the propitious release date of November 26, 2009.)

Secondly, Dr. Tarpley referred to the zero Fed rate and the bailouts as President Obama's creations, whereas history shows that the super-low Fed rate began soon after 9/11 (which was used as an excuse by the Bush Administration then in power), and that the initial bailout installment passed Congress on October 3rd, 2008, once again, while Bush was still in (de jure) power.  By blaming it all on President Obama, Dr. Tarpley missed an opportunity to publicize yet another illustration of the seamless continuity between the Bush 2 and Obama Administrations.

My major bone to pick is Dr. Tarpley's reference to European Union President-Designate (not President-Elect, as noone elected him, but President-Designate) Herman van Rompuy as a contemptible little mouse.  I LIKE MICE!  Mice aren't contemptible (as Mr. van Rompuy most certainly is); they're sweet, cute, playful, and surprising loyal, whereas Mr. van Rompuy, I'm certain, has earned none of these adjectives.  I hereby demand of Dr. Tarpley a public apology to all the mice of the world for the grievous insult they have suffered at his hands, in serving as his standard of comparison with the contemptible President-Designate van Rompuy.

Hmmph!
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 04:58:28 PM »

Both these guys (Like Kucinich and Schiff) are guided by a central theme of the rights of man and the foundation of liberty.

Their methods of achieving the goals that they believe in may differ but they both seem to have similar intentions.  Could they be the Jefferson and Adams of our time?

one's methods (means) can lead to places one did not intend (ends) to be...
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