Concise Systematic Crater Chains, Your Take?

[Gale]

Concise Systematic Crater Chains, Your Take?



Ganymede: Torn Comet - Crater Chain
Credit: Galileo Project, Brown University, JPL, NASA

APOD: 2001 December 15 - Ganymede: Torn Comet Crater Chain
Explanation: This striking line of 13 closely spaced craters on Jupiter's moon Ganymede was photographed by the Galileo spacecraft in 1997. The picture covers an area about 120 miles wide and the chain of craters cuts across a sharp boundary between dark and light terrain. What caused this crater chain? Remarkably, the exploration of the Solar System, has shown that crater chains like this one are not unique, though they were considered mysterious until a dramatic object lesson was offered by comet Shoemaker-Levy 9. In 1994 many denizens of planet Earth watched as huge pieces of this torn comet slammed into Jupiter itself in a spectacular series of sequential impacts. It is very likely that similar torn comets from the early history of the Solar System are responsible for this and other crater chains.

Concise Systematic Crater Chains, Your Take?
Since 2002 Norval Cunningham and I were researching these odd and mysterious chains of craters that have been photographed on our moon and all around our solar system. We completed our investigations about three years ago and have since moved on to other areas of research about UFOs, ETs and the exopolitical aspects of it all. Which also includes the conspiracy to cover up and deny such information about the topic.
When we first started our investigation of CSCC (concise and systematic crater chains) we were encouraged to apply for a grant from NASA by a high up NASA official, to research some basic observations we had made about these CSCC. We fell right into their trap of Information Acquisition and Control. IAC agents are all over the web, in most every forum with any discussion of the topic, to discover what is known and by whom. They then will attempt to side track one from the true path of discovery and knowledge, if possible. It all goes down hill from there and only gets worse for those that would try to discover the truth about what is really going on with UFOs, ETs, and their presence here on earth.
There are two primary theories about what may have caused these CSCC.
1. The Rubble Pile Comet Theory; where a broken up comet, caused by a close pass to a planet's gravity influence making the asteroid / comet break up, and then hit something else, creating these chains of craters.
2. The Sol System War Theory; where the cause is presented as their having been made by weapons of war.
There is a third contender now with another theory, The Electrical Universe theory, where the cause would be strikes by electrical bolts. Of course everyone must make up their own minds as to what may be the truth of what causes CSCC of such uniformity.
The ONE nobody wants to discuss, reasonably, is that they were caused by an alien war in our solar system. Just think for a moment of the other conclusions, if such were true; that these were weapons strikes?
UFOs would be real.
ETs would be real.
Some ETs have a war like attitude. Just like us.
Their weapons make ours look like a fart next to an atomic bomb.

If you were the "powers that be" here on earth would you want this "theory" out there being talked about? From the reaction of forum IAC agents, which are just doing their jobs, this and other topics like it are their targets for control. If you follow the trail, reading and looking at all the CSCC pictures we could find, what the scientists have had to say about them, questioning some of them as Norval and I have, you will find out why they are scared and do not want to discuss this Sol System War theory, nor to have it discussed.

[Dok]

thats your proof? thats it. oK, thanks for playing.

[Gale]

It's okay Dok, understanding the science that is depicted in the Document (the Bible) can be hard when religions have kept the Document cloaked in mystery and magic.

Department of Defense types, have suspected these CSCCs to be weapons strikes from as early as the very early 1900's. Since we achieved space exploration they have been highly interested in these CSCCs and have found them on many bodies in our solar system. Yet until after Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 they kept the images of them out of the general public's eye. Because of what these types of in line craters represent to the military types it becomes apparent that they can not allow the public to even think about these being weapons of war by ET's. Think not of these as weapons tests, but in actual war in our solar system, which brings ALL other craters into suspect in this war.



In the above photo you can clearly see many of the CS type crater chains with the characteristics we think show obvious intelligence as to cause. Of note are the three and possibly four time frames of occurrence. The predominant CS chain near the center running lower left to upper right appears to be the cleanest and so is probably the newest. Notice the CS chains just above and left of the dominant one. Now they appear to have been covered by dust debris, or possibly silt flow, and that gives us three time frames. Chain, material deposit, then another chain.

More information here
http://www.craterchains.com/ and here http://www.craterchains.com/ns/nspage.html

Picture of another CSCC from Ganymede, a moon of Jupiter.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971209.html

[Dok]

It's okay Dok, understanding the science that is depicted in the Document (the Bible) can be hard when religions have kept the Document cloaked in mystery and magic.

Department of Defense types, have suspected these CSCCs to be weapons strikes from as early as the very early 1900's. Since we achieved space exploration they have been highly interested in these CSCCs and have found them on many bodies in our solar system. Yet until after Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 they kept the images of them out of the general public's eye. Because of what these types of in line craters represent to the military types it becomes apparent that they can not allow the public to even think about these being weapons of war by ET's. Think not of these as weapons tests, but in actual war in our solar system, which brings ALL other craters into suspect in this war.



In the above photo you can clearly see many of the CS type crater chains with the characteristics we think show obvious intelligence as to cause. Of note are the three and possibly four time frames of occurrence. The predominant CS chain near the center running lower left to upper right appears to be the cleanest and so is probably the newest. Notice the CS chains just above and left of the dominant one. Now they appear to have been covered by dust debris, or possibly silt flow, and that gives us three time frames. Chain, material deposit, then another chain.

More information here
http://www.craterchains.com/ and here http://www.craterchains.com/ns/nspage.html

Picture of another CSCC from Ganymede, a moon of Jupiter.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971209.html

hate to break it to ya, but that in NO WAY shows proof of space weapons by aliens. 

[Gale]

Dok, it was only 6 minutes from when I posted my reply to your one sentence response, you have to actually examine the information.

Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf63OyRrFwk

or this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N-L-I4f6eg

[Dok]

ive seen it before. Sorry.

[Kilika]

Just for the sake of conversation, how about this...

I suspect these crater chains are a result of debris impacts of broken up space rubble. This is not evidence of technology, and the reason why it's not is simple; technology.

Aliens with the technology to fly around planetary bodies and fire weapons at whatever surely have the technology we do which is radar that locks on targets, and we have lasers that won't "strafe" like gunfire. I see no reason for advanced technology to make a weapon that they have to "lead" their target, which implies a tracer round is needed because it suggests one using the trail of impacts as an aiming method. All of that logic is man-based and crude at best. Definately not alien.

[Dok]

Just for the sake of conversation, how about this...

I suspect these crater chains are a result of debris impacts of broken up space rubble. This is not evidence of technology, and the reason why it's not is simple; technology.

Aliens with the technology to fly around planetary bodies and fire weapons at whatever surely have the technology we do which is radar that locks on targets, and we have lasers that won't "strafe" like gunfire. I see no reason for advanced technology to make a weapon that they have to "lead" their target, which implies a tracer round is needed because it suggests one using the trail of impacts as an aiming method. All of that logic is man-based and crude at best. Definately not alien.

dont bring logic into it. 

[Kilika]

 

[Gale]

There are three theories about crater chains.

1. Rubble Pile Comet Theory 1994 -95 A broken comet may make them
2. Cunningham / Smart Theory 2002 "Weapons of war will make these."
3. The UE Theory 2003-04 Electrical bolts may make them.

The rubble pile crater chains looks like this:


The electrical theory cannot work because of two things in space, a vacuum and distance.

If you note the size of the craters and length of chain with the craters perfectly spaced shoulder to shoulder. Scientists state these craters have occurred simultaneous, debris from one crater did not fill in the neighboring craters.
We have had the opinion of military about bomb damage assessment state that a) this first image is of something hit on the ground and b) the second image is of something hit above the ground leaving the discolored splash patterns.

a)


b)

 Planetary Photojournal, JPL, Galileo

[Dok]

annnndddd punt.

[Gale]

The example you used  to illustrate the tidal disruption forces has been the comet Shoemaker Levy 9 (SL9) that broke apart and impacted Jupiter in 1994.  An interesting aspect of SL9, it was obse4rved for 384 days, during which time the comet broke apart into many varying size fragments "range in size from about 500 meters to almost 4 km" according to JPL NASA, http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA01264 1.  JPL NASA further explains "The apparent separation of Q1 and Q2 was only about 1100 kilometers (680 miles) on 1 July 1993 and increased to 28,000 kilometers (17,400 miles) by 20 July 1994"  So it seemed the fragments separated 26,900 kilometers (16,720 miles) over 384 observed days until impact.  This would mean the fragments separated 70 kilometers (43.5 miles) per day throughout the 384 observed days.  JPL NASA SL9 images, impacts clearly visible: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/image101.html 2, http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/image301.html 3, http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap980801.html 4 and http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/images.html 5.
Comparing the behavior and pattern of SL9 from these NASA images to the crater chains such as http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971209.html 6 and http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/callisto/02281997_full.jpg 7 clearly demonstrates that tidal disruption of mud and ice comets or asteroids were not the cause of these remarkable catinas.  SL9 broke up in varying sizes, thousands of kilometers apart and impacted over many days.  Crater chains of the type we are investigating and questioning are not varied in size, are not thousands of kilometers apart and did not impact over days. The very complexity of uniform size, trajectory, alignment, and timing isn't coming from a comet that broke up.

[Dok]

still a natural explanation, that is WAY more believable, than aliens.

[Gale]

It seems no matter how hard one tries to explain things there are those ones that will never understand.               

Combined Bibles
 II Thessalonians 2:11
 RSV with Apocrypha
     Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe
     what is false,
 New RSV
     For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading
     them to believe what is false,

The breaking up ice and mud rubble pile comet will not create these CSCC's. That is a specious argument.

[Dok]

It seems no matter how hard one tries to explain things there are those ones that will never understand.               

Combined Bibles
 II Thessalonians 2:11
 RSV with Apocrypha
     Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe
     what is false,
 New RSV
     For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading
     them to believe what is false,

The breaking up ice and mud rubble pile comet will not create these CSCC's. That is a specious argument.

For starters if your going to quote the Bible please use the Bible.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You havent presented any evidence what so ever, that these are caused by alien space guns. Showing a comet break up and impact of said comet in a row, shows more evidence than, OMG space aliens did it.

And to finish the verse i leave you with this.

2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

please back up with some evidence of, oh, i dont know, something.

[Waipio]

I like the Crater Chain theory....

Points supporting my appreciation of this would include:
 
1)   References to 'War in Heaven' were recorded in multiple texts over two thousand  years ago.

2)   Richard Hoagland would sometimes present apparent Sol System War  evidence. Then he would talk and hint around it and dance right up close to it, but I never knew him to come right out and say  "War".  Maybe he was plying his audience with enticement to buy stuff or maybe he knew he would be in hot water if he crossed that line. Maybe both.  

3)   NASA's nickname  Never A  Straight  Answer, and  other NASA curiosities and oddities

4)   Entries  in Astronomers' journals noting observations made in the 1800's  

5)   This  theory itself. IMHO, No way can a pile of flying debris land in such a precise pattern, seen over and over again in hundreds if not thousands of places in the Sol System.

IMHO, the theory prevails amongst the handful of crater chain theories I have seen.

But in some places where the concept of  Sol System  War surfaces, it sometimes is not received so well.

Why?

Maybe because it might kick open a big box full of wild cats?  Any parties who would benefit from keeping this a secret.... well, they'd have lotsa fires to put out, I would guess.

For example, I think that people might ask questions like:
 
War ?
Who ?  
Why ?
When ?
Where ?
Who won ?  
Who  lost  ?  
Where are they now ?
What do UFO flaps have to do with it ?
Who is making  that noise underground ?
etc  etc  etc

Maybe most or all of the dark side of NASA is partly about the losers preparing for a prison break, (on our tax dime btw). Militarization of space,  secret space craft etc. Was it one of Steven Greer's Disclosure Project Naval Intel witnesses who commented on secret weapons being pointed outward from earth?
( I dont recall the guy's name, and maybe it was someone else I heard say that )

I think that the highest most elite powers behind NASA and behind other clandestine global agencies represent  one  example to me of the ilk that I believe would benefit most from keeping a secure lid on this.

I understand that aerial combat pilots agree with this CSCC theory, but then they clam up upon fathoming the real world consequences of agreeing  publicly about what is probably the biggest best kept secret of all time.

I will not be a bit surprised if The PTB  announce that the returning good guys / victors / prison guards  are evil aliens invading Earth.

I recall it was Greer's Disclosure witness Dr. Carol Rosin who said that Werner Von Braun told her something like  ' Carol...dont fall for fake alien invasions.'

There are lots more pics of these crater chains / alleged   bombing run / strafing run  leftovers.  
Here's a few:

Over 50 craters in a straight line, crossing a semi-circle on Jupiter's moon Ganymede.:
 


How come Phobos got clobbered this much?
Phobos reminds me of Hoagland teasing: "Why / what would explode a planet?"... That was when he and Tom van Flandren were saying that the asteroid belt could be an exploded planet.



Jupiter's moon Callisto:

 

Pic of open strip mining mountaintops on Mars?


If this theory is correct, it is really important because it represents a big problem for humanity.

Well, thats my two cents.  

[Unintelligable Name]

hate to break it to ya, but that in NO WAY shows proof of space weapons by aliens.  

+1

Your conclusion is nonsensical at best, and absurd at worst. Things like this really only illustrate the point that this set of fringe ideas doesn't have anything conclusive to hold up and say "Look, aliens."

[xfahctor]

 looks like a line of objects impacting relatively simultaniously to me.....I don't get whats so suspicious about it.

[Kilika]

Okay, it's evidence of bombing practice by x-wing star fighters, and they're using space rubble as dummy bombs because it's cheaper and the military is on a tight budget.

[xfahctor]

Oh....and welcome back...... Mrs. Smart
 

[Waipio]

 

I have read most of the material at  Gale's site.  I still like this theory.

As I posted above, there are other elements of the theory. Its not only the CSCC pics.

But sticking with the Crater Chains, I dont see explanations offered here yet, other than Comet Shoemaker  Levy example.

Nothing I see explains the consistent straight lines seen at the rate of incidence ocurring in the pics. 

.......and these are only the pics that NASA  has released.





   

[Optimus]

Tidal Disruption of Asteroids and Comets
( Not aliens shooting up the solar system )
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~bottke/rubble/node7.html

An indirect way of showing that asteroids are rubble piles is to link their behavior in certain situations to phenomena which cannot be easily explained by other means (e.g., the formation of large asteroid craters). To this end, I present a list of unusual objects and strange crater formations observed in the inner solar system that have defied conventional explanations for some time:

(a) Disrupted comet Shoemaker-Levy-9 (SL9) was pulled into more than 20 similar-sized fragments during its penultimate encounter with Jupiter in 1992 when it passed within 1.6 Jovian radii of the planet's center (Asphaug and Benz 1996). How did this disruption occur, and why did it create a train of equal-sized fragments much like a ``string of pearls''?

(b) Catena-type crater chains, defined as a regularly spaced row of three or more impact craters with similar sizes and apparently identical ages, have been discovered on the outer Galilean satellites and on our own Moon (Schenk et al. 1996). Their morphology, setting, and orientation make it improbable that they were formed by falling ejecta from a much larger impact. If true, how do catena-type crater chains form?

(c) Doublet craters, created by the nearly simultaneous impact of objects of comparable size, have been found on all the terrestrial planets. Approximately 10% (3 of 28) of terrestrial impact craters larger than 20 km in diameter have companion craters nearby with the same formation age (Bottke and Melosh 1996a,b). A comparable fraction exists on Venus (Cook et al. 1998), while a somewhat smaller fraction has been found on Mars (Melosh et al. 1996). Proposed formation mechanisms, such as tidal disruption during a rubble pile's final approach to a planet and/or break-up due to atmospheric friction, are insufficient to produce significant separation between the fragments. Thus, doublet craters can only be formed by the impact of binary asteroids (Bottke and Melosh 1996a,b). Why do so many near-Earth asteroids have satellites?

(d) Delay-Doppler radar images of Earth-crossing asteroid 1620 Geographos show it to be the most elongated object yet found in the solar system (e.g., its aspect ratio is 2.76) (Ostro et al. 1995; 1996). Its rotation period is so fast (P = 5.27 h) that loose material is scarcely bound near the ends of the body, while cusps on either end of the body make it look something like a pinwheel when viewed from various aspect angles. How did this asteroid get such an unusual shape?

The connection between (a)-(d) is that all these features can be produced, directly or indirectly, by the tidal disruption of rubble pile asteroids or comets. That is, when these bodies encounter a planet on a close slow trajectory, they are often reshaped or pulled apart by that planet's gravitational forces. Before showing model results supporting this hypothesis, however, I briefly digress to explain why tidal disruption requires asteroids and comets to be rubble piles.

Roche showed in 1847 that a self-gravitating synchronously-rotating liquid satellite circling a spherical planet has no stable equilibrium figure inside a critical distance. To obtain this distance, Roche balanced the liquid satellite's self-gravity against the differential gravitational and centrifugal forces on each end of the satellite. His result, now called the Roche limit, showed that a strengthless body will only disrupt near a planet if it orbits very close to that planet (e.g., a liquid satellite with a density of 2 g cm tex2html_wrap_inline304 must orbit within 3.4 Earth radii of Earth's center to undergo disruption). Objects making brief encounters with planets need to pass closer than the Roche limit to break apart. Thus, it is easy to show that if comets and asteroids possess any kind of realistic tensile strength, tidal disruption is virtually impossible.

Using an N-body code, it is possible to model the tidal disruption of km-sized rubble piles by the Earth and other planets (Bottke et al. 1997; Bottke et al. 1998a; Richardson et al. 1998). In the simulations I show here, asteroids are modeled as aggregates of 247 identical spherical particles held together by self-gravity. Interparticle collisions and friction between the bodies are both treated rigorously. The model asteroid's bulk density is 2 g cm tex2html_wrap_inline304 , while its shape is reminiscent of 4769 Castalia. It was tested over a range of spin periods, spin axis orientations, and hyperbolic trajectories with Earth.

Several classes of outcomes for these encounters were found, depending on the choice of starting conditions (Fig. 5):

The most severe is ``S'', a ``Shoemaker-Levy-9-type'' catastrophic disruption forming a line of clumps of roughly equal size with the largest fragment containing less than 50% of the progenitor's original mass. This disruption class readily explains Shoemaker-Levy-9 as well as the catena-type crater chains, which form when S-class fragment trains impact a moon of the perturbing planet before escaping to interplanetary space. In all cases tested, S-class events produced fragment trains with orientations, sizes, and spacings consistent with observed catenae.

Less severe, and incapable of making crater chains, is ``B'', break-up with mass shedding of clumps (three or more particles) and single particles, with 50% to 90% of the progenitor's mass in the largest fragment. In many cases, the shed fragments go into orbit around the progenitor, producing binary asteroids. If these binaries were to hit a planet at a later time, they would produce two distinct craters. Bottke and Melosh (1996a,b) and Richardson et al.\ (1998) have shown that tidal disruption can create enough binaries to explain the population of doublet craters seen on the terrestrial planets.

Milder still is ``M'', mass shedding of clumps or particles, with the progenitor retaining more than 90% of its mass. In this disruption class, tidal forces frequently reshape the rubble pile while spinning it up. Probable endstates have been found which mimic all the characteristics of 1620 Geographos (Solem and Hills 1996; Bottke et al. 1998b).

Since we can reproduce (a)-(d) using rubble piles, we can infer that these types of bodies must be common throughout the solar system.



Figure 5: The three main tidal disruption outcome classes. Time proceeds from top to bottom in each column. Frame (1) shows the start of each run and frame (5) the end. Frames (2)-(4) were selected to illustrate distinctive points in the evolution of each class, and so are not spaced evenly in time. Some frames undergo scale changes to show ejected clumps and particles. S-class (leftmost column), B-class (middle column), and M-class (rightmost column) tidal disruptions are defined in the text. (Figure from Richardson et al.\ 1998).

[xfahctor]

 Mrs. Smart (or Miss),
 lets start from the beginning....A few questions for you.
1. Could you state what your credentials in astronomy are, what degrees you posses, what observatories you may have used, or even what equipment you posess and use yourself, what peer reviewed papers you have published etc.

2. Besides the mere nature of the crater patterns and biblical text (which is irelevent in a scientific discussion anyway) what other evidence are you going to present that these crater patterns are the result of an intelligent action, such as the firing of a weapon?

[Waipio]

While scholarly, the  "Tidal Disruption of Asteroids and Comets"  doesnt explain for me all the  straight  line crater chains.

also

Shoemaker's crater chain was  partly made via Jupiter's rotation time and the duration of the impacts.

How about where the chains run in various directions not related to planet rotation,  as in one of the pics above?

..and about  "Aliens"...maybe they are more like ancestors of human race.

I think ET works better  than  terms like aliens and reptiles.

Reptiles and scary aliens kinda remind me of  evil and scary  brown skinned guys wearing  turbans  and crashing jets into buildings.

Maybe  the  911 writers work for the same  production company .... ?

[Waipio]

looks like a line of objects impacting relatively simultaniously to me.....I don't get whats so suspicious about it.

Think of it like this....try tossing a handful of pebbles and see how often they land in a straight line.

Better yet make sure they are identical in size and shape....or even toss handfuls of identical ball bearings.

Try aligning them straight in you hand before tossing... how  many times you think they would make a straight impact chain?

Maybe  if they were identical ball bearings tossed from some kinda mechanical holder, they would land in a straight line every time.

How often would odd shaped rubble piles meet similar conditions ?

[xfahctor]

Think of it like this....try tossing a handful of pebbles and see how often they land in a straight line.

Better yet make sure they are identical in size and shape....or even toss handfuls of identical ball bearings.

Try aligning them straight in you hand before tossing... how  many times you think they would make a straight impact chain?

Maybe  if they were identical ball bearings tossed from some kinda mechanical holder, they would land in a straight line every time.
Do odd shaped / odd sized comet / asteroid rubble piles meet  those conditions?

you are making a completely irelevent comparisson......we're on earth....not out there....we're talking about  completely different gravitational conditions as well as a whole host of other factors. Earth is not space.

[Optimus]

While scholarly, the  "Tidal Disruption of Asteroids and Comets"  doesnt explain for me all the  straight  line crater chains.

also

Shoemaker's crater chain was  partly made via Jupiter's rotation time and the duration of the impacts.

How about where the chains run in various directions not related to planet rotation,  as in one of the pics above?

..and about  "Aliens"...maybe they are more like ancestors of human race.

I think ET works better  than  terms like aliens and reptiles.

Reptiles and scary aliens kinda remind me of  evil and scary  brown skinned guys wearing  turbans  and crashing jets into buildings.

Maybe  the  911 writers work for the same  production company .... ?

You can tell what angle from the planetary rotation the camera took those pictures how exactly?

Kepp in mind that the pictures were taken from orbiting satellites sent out to study the features of planets and moons in the solar system so the top of those pics don't automatically mean north.

[Waipio]

You can tell what angle from the planetary rotation the camera took those pictures how exactly?

Kepp in mind that the pictures were taken from orbiting satellites sent out to study the features of planets and moons in the solar system so the top of those pics don't automatically mean north.

Nothing of the sort involved. Perhaps you misunderstood.

Only saying that on one body, Mars, I think it is, pictured above, the CSCC lines are seen crisscrossing in many directions as in random.

Therefore nothing like the Shoemaker Levy pieces impacting on Jupiter, where the rotating target Jupiter played a role in making a somewhat straight line of impacts.

Therefore the Shoemaker example does not apply to the  random crisscrossing CSCCs..... That response was made to inform  the erroneus use of Shoemaker to explain other CSCC.

[xfahctor]

Nothing of the sort involved. Perhaps you misunderstood.

Only saying that on one body, Mars, I think it is, pictured above, the CSCC lines are seen crisscrossing in many directions as in random.

Therefore nothing like the Shoemaker Levy pieces impacting on Jupiter, where the rotating target Jupiter played a role in making a somewhat straight line of impacts.

Therefore the Shoemaker example does not apply to the  random crisscrossing CSCCs..... That response was made to inform  the erroneus use of Shoemaker to explain other CSCC.

I don't see any chain criss crossing craters. I see photo's of two of jupiters moons (don't know why phobos was mentioned above, no pics of phobos there) each with an example of "chain craters" and one that happens to have a few criss crossing surface features, which are by no means unusual or unatural in the soalr system.
 

[xfahctor]

Nothing of the sort involved. Perhaps you misunderstood.

Only saying that on one body, Mars, I think it is, pictured above, the CSCC lines are seen crisscrossing in many directions as in random.

Therefore nothing like the Shoemaker Levy pieces impacting on Jupiter, where the rotating target Jupiter played a role in making a somewhat straight line of impacts.

Therefore the Shoemaker example does not apply to the  random crisscrossing CSCCs..... That response was made to inform  the erroneus use of Shoemaker to explain other CSCC.

I would also argue that even if jupiter were not roatating, the fragments still would not have all hit in the same exact spot, it still would have formed a chain impact pattern, just not as spread out as it was.

[Waipio]

Quote from: xfahctor
(don't know why phobos was mentioned above, no pics of phobos there)

Phobos. Look for big red thing in post #15, above.  Sorry if was unclear.
Here is same pic, smaller version

Quote from: xfahctor
and one that happens to have a few criss crossing surface features, which are by no means unusual or unnatural in the solar system.

There again is the point. Those crisscrossing features  you see are not mere "surface features".  Look closely. They  are CSCC. They are unnatural. CSCC are unusual, except for in a  solar system that had a "War in Heaven" as was recorded 2,000+ years ago.

Crisscrossing CSCC, various ages (some part buried) / random directions, Mars, I think.

Quote from: xfahctor
I would also argue that even if jupiter were not rotating, the fragments still would not have all hit in the same exact spot, it still would have formed a chain impact pattern, just not as spread out as it was.

Sure not in one spot, and not as spread out  ...but not in the straight line which again is the main point. Its about the  chains forming a straight line. In Shoemaker, the straight line of hits  was caused by Jupiter rotating while the group of incoming objects impacted over a period of  many days.   Your impact pattern on a stationary Jupiter would not fit the definition of the  CSCC. It would make an ordinary crater chain, or Catena.  

If Jupiter were not spinning, the incoming rubble pile would most likely not have made anything like a  straight line CSCC.  You would see something  more like this:


If Jupiter were not rotating, how would the incoming rubble pile form a straight line CSCC ?  That question is key.  It would require some detail in decribing how it would happen.  

Are  groups / piles / clusters of flying rocks  likely to impact in an evenly spaced, evenly sized  straight line of craters ?

Thanks for taking time to listen, look, and dialogue, xfahctor .

[xfahctor]

Phobos. Look for big red thing in post #15, above.  Sorry if was unclear.
Here is same pic, smaller version


There again is the point. Those crisscrossing features  you see are not mere "surface features".  Look closely. They  are CSCC. They are unnatural. CSCC are unusual, except for in a  solar system that had a "War in Heaven" as was recorded 2,000+ years ago.

Crisscrossing CSCC, various ages (some part buried) / random directions, Mars, I think.


Sure not in one spot, and not as spread out  ...but not in the straight line which again is the main point. Its about the  chains forming a straight line. In Shoemaker, the straight line of hits  was caused by Jupiter rotating while the group of incoming objects impacted over a period of  many days.   Your impact pattern on a stationary Jupiter would not fit the definition of the  CSCC. It would make an ordinary crater chain, or Catena.  

If Jupiter were not spinning, the incoming rubble pile would most likely not have made anything like a  straight line CSCC.  You would see something  more like this:


If Jupiter were not rotating, how would the incoming rubble pile form a straight line CSCC ?  That question is key.  It would require some detail in decribing how it would happen.  

Are  groups / piles / clusters of flying rocks  likely to impact in an evenly spaced, evenly sized  straight line of craters ?

Thanks for taking time to listen, look, and dialogue, xfahctor .

no problem....I enjoy a good science discussion.
 so you believe that jupiter's rotation is what prevented a non lateral impact series? Are you saying that had jupiter not been roatating, the impacts would not have lined up in a chain pattern?

And since Miss Smart either is not going to be here for a bit or is unable to answer my direct pertinent questions, perhaps you would care to...or at least one of them....
1. what evidence can you present  besides the apearence of being a non natural formation or bible quotes, that these were the result of a war in our solar system?
 and in answer to your last question, yes...I do believe they would, especialy if they were traveling along in such a pattern to begin with after being torn up by a force, especialy where there is no other force such as friction from atmosphere to act on them and knock them out of a straight pattern. why would you expect objects traveling unimpeded by a force, in a straight line, to suddenly disprse in a random pattern right befor impact?
 

[Gale]

For starters if your going to quote the Bible please use the Bible.

Hi Dok, actually I use a computer Bible database that has:

The list of titles, in their order on the CD-ROM...

A  Combined Bibles (10 bibles in parallel)
B  Today's English Version
C  Revised Standard Version Apocrypha
D  Luther Bible Apocrypha (German)
E  English Septuagint (LXX)
F  Greek Septuagint
G  Greek Septuagint with Parsing, etc.
H  Greek New Testament with Parsing, etc.
I  Greek Harmony of the Gospels
J  Greek English Lexicon
K  Hebrew Old Testament with Parsing, etc.
L  Hebrew Harmony of Samuel, Kings and Chronicles
M  Hebrew - English Terms
N  Hebrew - English Lexicon
O  Latin Vulgate Bible
P  English Harmony of the Gospels
Q  English Harmony of Samuel, Kings and Chronicles
R  Abingdon's Dictionary of Bible and Religion
S  Apostolic Fathers
T  Josephus
*  Index help

The list of indexes, in alphabetical order...

 1.    *Index information
 2.    Apostolic Fathers
 3.    Bible reference
 4.    Database
 5.    Dictionary of Bible
 6.    English bibles
 7.    English compendium = all English data
 8.    Greek New Testament
 9.    Greek N.T. with parsing
10.    Greek/English lexicon
11.    Greek, maximum  = all characters of all Greek data
12.    Greek, minimum  = letters only
13.    Greek, moderate = letters, accents, breathing
14.    Harmony of Gospels, English
15.    Harmony of Gospels, Greek
16.    Harmony of SKC, English
17.    Harmony of SKC, Hebrew
18.    Hebrew/English lexicon
19.    Hebrew/English terms
20.    Hebrew Old Testament
21.    Hebrew O.T. with parsing
22.    Hebrew, maximum  = all characters of all Hebrew data
23.    Hebrew, minimum  = consonants only
24.    Hebrew, moderate = letters, vowels
25.    Josephus
26.    King James Version
27.    Latin Vulgate Bible
28.    Luther Bible with apoc
29.    New American Standard Bible
30.    New King James Version
31.    New Revised Standard Version
32.    Reina Valera RVR Spanish
33.    Revised Std Version RSV with apoc
34.    Septuagint, English
35.    Septuagint, Greek
36.    Septuagint, Greek, with parsing
37.    Strong's numbers
38.    Today's English Version
39.    Translators' Index

Another resource that is very nice is e-sword a free program offered by Rick Meyers at http://e-sword.net/. Not to mention my library of actual books and the different translations of the Bible.
If you prefer to stick with just one translation, that's okay I can accommodate that but it seems too restricting.

Hello Waipio, wow interesting post.

Your conclusion is nonsensical at best, and absurd at worst.

Hi Chemicalrain,
We have consulted with scientists and military types, that all agree, this is not a natural occurrence and the only thing comparable would be weapons.

Hello xfahctor, yes it is Mrs but I don't see how my marital status is relevant.  Actually my status is widowed raising three kids. My intro thread is here: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=143083.msg869548;topicseen#msg869548

Hello Route24, it's good you brought up Bottke and Richardson's rubble pile computer simulation program. If you examine their research papers they conclude their simulation program does not re-create the simultaneous shoulder to shoulder impacts as seen in NASA et al images. Even in the images 4 & 5 of the S-Class are spread apart too far and will not impact shoulder to shoulder. There was a European group that developed another simulation program to specifically address this issue but they concluded their new program also did not re-create the shoulder to shoulder simultaneous impacting as seen in the images.

xfahctor, you want to know about me personally, that's very considerate.  As I stated in my introduction thread I research UFO's, ET's, the Bible and other ancient writings but I don't stop there. There are many other areas of investigation that directly relate to those that I mentioned, like psychology, physiology, sociology etc. I have studied 2 years of psychology at a Canadian University; have a diploma in Accounting, Business Admin and a diploma in Electronic Engineering Technician, not to mention 52 years of life experiences.  Thank you for asking.

Hello again Waipio, one thing to consider despite Jupiter's rotation is the spread of the comet fragments.  To quote:

An interesting aspect of SL9, it was obse4rved for 384 days, during which time the comet broke apart into many varying size fragments "range in size from about 500 meters to almost 4 km" according to JPL NASA, http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA01264 1.  JPL NASA further explains "The apparent separation of Q1 and Q2 was only about 1100 kilometers (680 miles) on 1 July 1993 and increased to 28,000 kilometers (17,400 miles) by 20 July 1994"  So it seemed the fragments separated 26,900 kilometers (16,720 miles) over 384 observed days until impact...SL9 broke up in varying sizes, thousands of kilometers apart and impacted over many days.  Crater chains of the type we are investigating and questioning are not varied in size, are not thousands of kilometers apart and did not impact over days. The very complexity of uniform size, trajectory, alignment, and timing isn't coming from a comet that broke up.

xfahctor in his post did not take into consideration the fragment spread before impact, planet rotation or not.
I am right here xfahctor, just not all day long and it's Mrs Smart.

1. what evidence can you present  besides the apearence of being a non natural formation or bible quotes, that these were the result of a war in our solar system?

Norval and I investigated (among many things) what the scientist were researching, their investigations and one of scientist of note that I will mention was Eugene Shoemaker. He and his wife started researching a crater in the outback of Australia (and others) in comparison to the Nevada test craters. The form, the glass etc and was going to go public with his findings that is until his untimely death. His findings that would have put almost all craters in our solar system in question as to their origin.

Wow some good questions in this thread!

[xfahctor]

xfahctor, you want to know about me personally, that's very considerate.  As I stated in my introduction thread I research UFO's, ET's, the Bible and other ancient writings but I don't stop there. There are many other areas of investigation that directly relate to those that I mentioned, like psychology, physiology, sociology etc. I have studied 2 years of psychology at a Canadian University; have a diploma in Accounting, Business Admin and a diploma in Electronic Engineering Technician, not to mention 52 years of life experiences.  Thank you for asking.

Hello again Waipio, one thing to consider despite Jupiter's rotation is the spread of the comet fragments.  To quote:
xfahctor in his post did not take into consideration the fragment spread before impact, planet rotation or not.
I am right here xfahctor, just not all day long and it's Mrs Smart.

Norval and I investigated (among many things) what the scientist were researching, their investigations and one of scientist of note that I will mention was Eugene Shoemaker. He and his wife started researching a crater in the outback of Australia (and others) in comparison to the Nevada test craters. The form, the glass etc and was going to go public with his findings that is until his untimely death. His findings that would have put almost all craters in our solar system in question as to their origin.

Wow some good questions in this thread!

Your marital staus is irrelevent to the discussion, but it was relevent to me in how I adressed you, my parents raised a gentlman. Also, my condolences to you on your loss.
But I was also asking about your back ground and qualifications in the relevent areas to this discussion, such as astronomy and physics to determain where you stood in those areas.

Ok, your correct, i did not address the spread in my thread. But then ,SL9 did not start to spread until it got closer to jupiter at which point, we observed a "spagetification", exactly what we'd expect from a fragmented body under the influence of Jupiter's strong  gravity. This is something we would not how ever observe in a body that is not as near to it or has any thing even close to jupiters gravity, such as it's moons, hence, the tighter pattern.

You mention Eugene Shoemaker's work in the out back. Yes, he may have been compairing it to the bomb craters in nevada, but it was only in perspective, Mr. Shoemaker himself made no such leap that these types of craters were not natural occurences. Also, you mention other scientists who did agreed chain craters was not a natural occurence. Could you tell me who these scientists were? Also, what can you present of Mr. shoemaker's work in the out back that he was about to go public with? No here-say please, I would like to see this specific documented work that reflects belief these are not natural.

I also want to re address and re phrase an initial question of mine....what besides the seemingly non random nature of these and the resemblence to munitions craters, do you have as evidence that what we observe all over the solar system is the result of an interplanetary war? It is quite a long leap to go from observing that the craters look like bomb craters to... "they are the result of an alien war", I'm just not seeing an awefull lot of anything in between the two. It is a bit like looking at a satelite shots of dry river beds, and concluding that they were formed by giant pre-historic escavating equipment.

[Waipio]

FWIW  

I am beginning to see some parallels between this issue and the issue of the Sept 11 deception.

Both are theories re conspiracy and / or deception theories.  

If we assume for a  moment that this War in Heaven deception theory is valid, it means:


1)  The losers are in power on Earth and / or influencing / controlling some govt people.

2)  Their power depends upon their maintaining the illusion that they, and their deceptions do not exist


Those two points can be applied to both the Sept 11 deception and the War in Heaven deception.

Therefore if true, the War in Heaven deception could be the Mother of all major deceptions ie 911 etc

[xfahctor]

FWIW  

I am beginning to see some parallels between this issue and the issue of the Sept 11 deception.

Both are theories re conspiracy and / or deception theories.  

If we assume for a  moment that this War in Heaven deception theory is valid, it means:


1)  The losers are in power on Earth and / or influencing / controlling some govt people.

2)  Their power depends upon their maintaining the illusion that they, and their deceptions do not exist


Those two points can be applied to both the Sept 11 deception and the War in Heaven deception.

Therefore if true, the War in Heaven deception could be the Mother of all major deceptions ie 911 etc

except that we have far more evidence of funny business on 9-11 than we do for a war in the solar system.

[Waipio]

Therefore if true, the War in Heaven deception could be the Mother of all major deceptions ie 911 etc

except that we have far more evidence of funny business on 9-11 than we do for a war in the solar system.

What evidence do you have / see so far for war in sol system ?

[Waipio]

looks like a line of objects impacting relatively simultaniously to me.....I don't get whats so suspicious about it.

How is it that they are making straight lines of craters of equal / near equal size?

Wouldnt that require objects with mostly identical  shape / size / mass ?

How would you describe what conditions  are required to  make CSCC ?

Sorry, if maybe I asked before... sometimes   that happens

[Jackson Holly]

Mr. Failed Astronomy 101 here ... I'm going with the Thunderbolts.com / Electrical Universe explanation until I see something else vaguely convincing.

I won't paste-in the entire article here ... I know most of the above posters know about this anyway ... but for anyone not familiar with the site:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/webnews/120707electriccraters.htm


EXCERPT:

The Craters Are Electric

12/07/2007
By Michael Goodspeed

To see the relationship between crater formation and rilles, it's useful to observe the more extreme cases in which the standard explanation fails completely. Often, planetary scientists can only guess as to the force generating channels on Mars. Sometimes, they will "see" flowing liquid (water or lava), and other times they will "see" wind erosion, and still other times they will see cracks. In all of these cases, the visible link to craters will pose enigmas.




Consider the extraordinary image above of the Martian surface, called Avernus Colles. The network of channels observed from space was certainly not caused by flowing liquid, and on the face of it, it is not surprising that planetary scientists identified the channels as cracks or "fractures." When viewed more closely, however, the "obvious" explanation evaporates. A small section of the region above shows unequivocally the relationship between a cratering process and the enigmatic channels. To appreciate the scope of the mystery, one should view the entire THEMIS image, available here—> THIS IS A  MUST-SEE!

http://themis.asu.edu/fullimages/20070718a

Once the inseparable relationship of craters to channels is fully appreciated, planetary scientists will begin to see the essential connection of the same electric force to massive "surface etching"� on Mars -- a process that has continued to baffle NASA investigators.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[scoffer]

It seems no matter how hard one tries to explain things there are those ones that will never understand.               

Combined Bibles
 II Thessalonians 2:11
 RSV with Apocrypha
     Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe
     what is false,
 New RSV
     For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading
     them to believe what is false,

The breaking up ice and mud rubble pile comet will not create these CSCC's. That is a specious argument.

Gale, Don't even bother discussing with Dok. He/She believes in something that cannot be proven, and yet he/she persists in requesting that anyone who posts a theory back it up with firm evidence. Perhaps we should be asking Dok to prove that he/she is not an agent of the devil, or ignore him/her like a common troll.