Oh god... David Icke again?

[Freeski]

Because he mixes the truth with lies and ridiculous nonsense, thus discrediting the truth.  For some reason, there is a lot of resistance to this particular truth, but it is the truth.

The powers that be knew that there would be a period of waking up, and not because of any sort of planetary allignment, and they have set up their pied pipers for this very period of time.  So now millions of people will wake up, and be taken off the path of truth by BS about walking lizard people.

I don't think so. Icke was a huge factor in my own awakening and I know that once awake, always awake. I actually stopped reading his stuff for a while because I wasn't interested in the reptilian angle. And now, years later, I'm still undecided and I certainly can't rule anything out. Point being, Icke helped to wake me and many others up -- so if you believe that once awake always awake, then mission accomplished, he's waking people up so whatever happens from then on is largely irrelevent.

[TheCaliKid]

Because he mixes the truth with lies and ridiculous nonsense, thus discrediting the truth.  For some reason, there is a lot of resistance to this particular truth, but it is the truth.

The powers that be knew that there would be a period of waking up, and not because of any sort of planetary allignment, and they have set up their pied pipers for this very period of time.  So now millions of people will wake up, and be taken off the path of truth by BS about walking lizard people.

Yup.


Truth mixed with lies is a most dangerous formula.

[matrixcutter]

ever hear of discernment?
that means, essentially, thinking for yourself.  Don't let ANYBODY,not even Icke or AJ, spoon feed your passive mind.  If you don't like something he says, use your discernment and synthesize what is valuable for you.  don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Unfortunately, counter-intelligence operates on the knowledge that many people will throw the baby out with the bathwater.  That's why the (UK) mainstream media uses Icke as a one-size-fits-all reference point when they want to make people who question the official 9/11 story, for example, look insane.

And for those that can think for themselves, they can still be influenced by BS.  For some people, this means wasting years and years looking for reptilian features in every photo, or whatever.

I woke up via Icke, way before AJ, and was fascinated, horrified, repulsed and confused about the reptiles.  But the other stuff that was real and verifiable was what kept me interested.  I still don't know about the lizards, and really, I don't care.

Yet you are here defending Icke and his right to spread this disinfo, to a complete stranger.

What difference does it make if there are lizards or not?

Quite a lot, psychologically, given that they are supposed to be a massively superior alien race, who actually created us.  If you accept that then you have already lost the game, psychologically, even if you don't realise it consciously.

Unless they pull me over at a checkpoint and haul me out of my car, I could give a f**k.  They aren't verifiable to me at this point.  They are to Icke.

Icke doesn't even claim to have ever seen one, yet thousands of his followers swear that they are real.  Almost none of them claim to have seen a reptilian, and not one of them has managed to film a reptilian "shape-shift", although some people have doctored some footage and pretended to have captured a shape-shift.  And in fact this dishonesty was defended on Icke's forum by the moderators.  It turns out that the conman involved had donated thousands of dollars to Icke's website.

I'm from the Show me state (missouri), so you need to show me the lizards, but that doesn't mean I think icke's disinfo. It just means I took what i wanted out of his amazing and enormous body of work.

Well fair enough, but you know as well as I do that when you try to wake people up and you talk about shape-shifting reptile people, you've just made yourself look ridiculous.  And some people have already heard this disinfo, but don't know about the NWO, so when you try to wake them up, they'll say "oh yeah, sure, and I suppose they're all giant lizards from the planet Zog too, right?"  Mission David Icke accomplished.


-----

Goodnight everyone.

[Scootle]

At the end of the day tho its not about reptilians, its not about vibrations and infinate consciousnesss and what not ... its his ideals that matter ... coming together and refusing to cooperate with the system and working together to make a better world... thats whats important

[KimMPossible]

If you replace the word "reptile" with the word "demon," then most of the world can immediately grasp what's being described.

Read:

Alien Intrusion: UFOs and the Evolution Connection
by Gary Bates

[deconstructmyhouse]

What you are describing is entropy, not evolution. 2nd law of thermodynamics.

you're really gunning for me, on the chicken thread too.  Have a bad day?
Sure, I'll play.
there's organic, biologic, genetic and spiritual evolution. probably many more varieties.  It's one of the broadest philosophic/biologic terms out there.

So callin me a disinfo sucker for using the e word was a little harsh, yes?  i assume you were upset because you thought i was being Darwinian?

I'll say it again, the core stripped down meaning of evolution is change.  

Entropy is essentially a law of equalization, which is not what I'm talking about here.  Entropy is a directional movement towards balance: ie; a hot cup of coffee will gradually cool till it is equal to the surrounding temperature.  Pressurized gas will disperse and equalize etc.  

[carlee]

  

At the end of the day tho its not about reptilians, its not about vibrations and infinate consciousnesss and what not ... its his ideals that matter ... coming together and refusing to cooperate with the system and working together to make a better world... thats whats important

 so true

[unbound]

No, just rational.

No, I can go by facts.  And so can you, if you want.

If I had said that, then yes, that would have been arrogant and egotistical.
I didn't, but at this point it's obvious that such specificities are completely irrelevant to a lot of Icke's followers.

Look, if you can't comprehend what I'm saying that's fine. Talking to a brick wall is pointless, thus I won't continue to try to make my point to you as you aren't capable of understanding it.

[Michal Ptacnik]

As much as some of you are perhaps repulsed by Icke, here in Czech Republic, it is the other way around. More often than not we would facepalm hearing the "Jesus talk" of the fundamentalist Christian, thinking "gee, is this the Dark Ages or what?" For them, a purely christian movement would be discredited almost authomaticaly. Granted I am not one of those people, but neither am I a fundamentalist and my beliefs are much more akin to that of Icke than of, say, the baptists, so I welcome Icke as someone who openly defends "New Age" ways and proves that it is not all "Illuminati propaganda."

[Outer Haven]

so I welcome Icke as someone who openly defends "New Age" ways and proves that it is not all "Illuminati propaganda."

I believe David Icke has very little to do with New Age. And I think I actually saw a video where he said that it was Illuminati propaganda...

By the way, here in Poland it is very similar! 
David Icke is greatly revered, at least on the Internet; there's even a Polish fansite: www.davidicke.pl.

[KimMPossible]

I'll say it again, the core stripped down meaning of evolution is change.  

Evolution, STRIPPED DOWN, means progressive changes over time from less complexity to more complexity. It implies UPWARD progression, as opposed to entropy, which implies DOWNWARD progression. The 2 "laws" are incompatible & cannot exist simultaneously.


ev⋅o⋅lu⋅tion
  /ˌɛvəˈluʃən or, especially Brit., ˌivə-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ev-uh-loo-shuhn or, especially Brit., ee-vuh-] Show IPA
Use evolution in a Sentence
See web results for evolution
See images of evolution
–noun
1.    any process of formation or growth; development: the evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane.
2.    a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the evolution of decades of research.
3.    Biology. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.
4.    a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.
5.    a motion incomplete in itself, but combining with coordinated motions to produce a single action, as in a machine.
6.    a pattern formed by or as if by a series of movements: the evolutions of a figure skater.
7.    an evolving or giving off of gas, heat, etc.
8.    Mathematics. the extraction of a root from a quantity. Compare involution (def. .
9.    a movement or one of a series of movements of troops, ships, etc., as for disposition in order of battle or in line on parade.
10.    any similar movement, esp. in close order drill.
Origin:
1615–25; < L ēvolūtiōn- (s. of ēvolūtiō) an unrolling, opening, equiv. to ēvolūt(us) (see evolute ) + -iōn- -ion

Related forms:
ev⋅o⋅lu⋅tion⋅al, adjective
ev⋅o⋅lu⋅tion⋅al⋅ly, adverb

Synonyms:
1. unfolding, change, progression, metamorphosis.

Antonyms:
1. stasis, inactivity, changelessness.

ev·o·lu·tion   (ěv'ə-lōō'shən, ē'və-)   
n. 

   1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.
   2. 1. The process of developing.
         2. Gradual development.
         3. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
         4. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
   3.Biology
         1. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
         2. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
   4. A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
   5. Mathematics The extraction of a root of a quantity.

[Latin ēvolūtiō, ēvolūtiōn-, from ēvolūtus, past participle of ēvolvere, to unroll; see evolve.]
ev'o·lu'tion·al, ev'o·lu'tion·ar'y (-shə-něr'ē) adj., ev'o·lu'tion·ar'i·ly adv.

evolution

A theory first proposed in the nineteenth century by Charles Darwin, according to which the Earth's species have changed and diversified through time under the influence of natural selection. Life on Earth is thought to have evolved in three stages. First came chemical evolution, in which organic molecules were formed. This was followed by the development of single cells capable of reproducing themselves. This stage led to the development of complex organisms capable of sexual reproduction. Evolution is generally accepted as fact by scientists today, although debates continue over the precise mechanisms involved in the process. (See mutation, punctuated equilibrium, and creation science.)

Note: The first cell is thought to have been formed when the Earth was less than a billion years old.

Medical Dictionary

Main Entry: evo·lu·tion
Pronunciation: "ev-&-'lü-sh&n also "E-v&-
Function: noun
1 : a process of change in acertain direction evolution of benign adenomas into invasive carcinoma —Journal of the American MedicalAssociation>
2 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are dueto modifications in successive generations —evo·lu·tion·ari·ly /-sh&-"ner-&-lE/ adverb —evo·lu·tion·ary /-sh&-"ner-E/ adjective

Medical Dictionary

evolution ev·o·lu·tion (ěv'ə-l&oomacr;'shən, ē'və-)
n.

   1. A continuing process of change from one state or condition to another or from one form to another.
   2. The theory that groups of organisms change with passage of time, mainly as a result of natural selection, so that descendants differ morphologically and physiologically from their ancestors.

[chrisfromchi]

This link to the melborne austrila 2009 show was awesome. I'm so jealous of those going to an actual show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYBYDDq56Lk

He is a fantastic speaker and i wish him all the best with this career. I don't know anyone else who has had as much popular culture attention on them, maybe now Alex.

A lot of these speakers are totally right about like 60 to 80% (maybe less) and they need something that makes then unique.

Say Reptilian...its Icke
Say 9/11 inside job...its Alex

I believe you can make a list of icke, tsarion, watt, alex, maxwell, wilcock, quayle.

Each listing out the correct information topics and the areas that is grey and the areas that are made up to give them a unique look on things.
From there you can discern whatever you want.

Personally I listen to everything, I learn what interests me, and I have a version truth that i believe is alright and solid and for the most part serves me well now and much better than i was even when i came to the forum first.

[deconstructmyhouse]

   1. A continuing process of change from one state or condition to another or from one form to another.
   

thanks for proving my point

[KimMPossible]

I welcome Icke as someone who openly defends "New Age" ways and proves that it is not all "Illuminati propaganda."

New Age believes that they can become God. So do the Illuminati. They are both Luciferian in every sense of the word. Icke would never defend that.

[deconstructmyhouse]

well all this has been very stimulating from Icke to roosters to pleasant interludes re entropy and such.  Been called disinfo, sucker, made some dude "sick" for my fowl views (hey can I come arrest your roosters personally and have them for dinner?  )

Another evening on the forum!  I LOVE it!  Bye y'all!

I'm off to have dinner with some crazy flesh and blood new age anarchists even now evolving into lizards via entropic dispersion! After that we're gonna plant winter carrots!

[Freeski]

well all this has been very stimulating from Icke to roosters to pleasant interludes re entropy and such.  Been called disinfo, sucker, made some dude "sick" for my fowl views (hey can I come arrest your roosters personally and have them for dinner?  )

Another evening on the forum!  I LOVE it!  Bye y'all!

I'm off to have dinner with some crazy flesh and blood new age anarchists even now evolving into lizards via entropic dispersion! After that we're gonna plant winter carrots!

Eat and be merry!

[Pio]

It is really hard to listen to a man who thinks he is a Lizard. Thank you to who ever started this tread!

[madworld21]

I decided to leave Icke's forum because I was sick and tired of the new age nonsense. If you talk about the real issues, you're "living in fear" or are too negative. Most of them believe in walking lizards and believe that the world is an illusion, making our participation essentially pointless. Icke mentioned something about the new world order coming down in 2016 (a ridiculous claim - as if he'd know the exact year).

He's an excellent public speaker. If he brought up the plain facts, he'd be great to have in the fight. Unfortunately, he mixes in documented fact with fairytales about lizards and the world being an illusion (CLASSIC new age philosophy).

He's either completely genuine and actually belives in reptilians and the world being an illusion, which would put his sanity in question, or he's deliberately misleading people. He does this either to make money (People love fantasy and there's big bucks involved), or he's been put out there by intelligence to discredit the real truth. I'm unsure.

He originally woke me up. I then started listening to Jones and Watt, who provide real information, backed up with facts. I fell for everything he said about reptilians and the world being an illusion. I look back now and wonder how I fell for such nonsense. Most of his followers (he is seen as a god by many) believe EVERYTHING he says, without looking at real facts. One of them claimed that Icke knows more than me because he's made predictions that have come true and is a worldwide speaker with many 'fans' (even though many were around before him). I informed him that I don't need Icke or any other leader to tell me anything. I simply read the documents and the books put out by the elite themselves.

[KimMPossible]

thanks for proving my point

Oh my. Isn't it cute how you cherry-picked the one definition that was vague enough to fit your fuzzy standards for critical thinking? And you were in such a hurry to be right that you failed to notice that you selected the definition that you liked from the MEDICAL DICTIONARY, which was describing evolution as it applies to MEDICINE & not the theory of evolution. Oh, & look, the very next definition -- definition number 2 -- defines the theory of evolution as it applies to biological evolution. Oopsie. And, remember? (Or is it too difficult?) YOU, too, were talking about the theory of evolution as it applies to biological evolution: "We need a good push to get us movin up the evolutionary being scale." Ah yes. UP. Small changes over time whereby biological beings get better & better & more & more complex & move farther & farther UP "the evolutionary being scale."

Intellectually dishonest much?

[Scootle]

[KimMPossible]

well all this has been very stimulating from Icke to roosters to pleasant interludes re entropy and such.  Been called disinfo, sucker, made some dude "sick" for my fowl views (hey can I come arrest your roosters personally and have them for dinner?  )

Another evening on the forum! I LOVE it! Bye y'all!

I'm off to have dinner with some crazy flesh and blood new age anarchists even now evolving into lizards via entropic dispersion! After that we're gonna plant winter carrots!

Notice how they always quit when they're about to be exposed for the intellectual frauds that they are?

[KimMPossible]

Jesus was kidnapped by a shape-shifting lizard from another dimension who secretly rules the world ...

So what, exactly, is your point?

[Scootle]

My point is there are norms in this world which if you think about it are just as ridiculous as the reptilian thing... im not criticizing religion, im just saying ... whats the difference?

[chrisfromchi]

I think the real point is that if you trace history back 500 years and longer you are going to find out we don't know shit and you can't prove anything really.

And you would probably be freaked out at the amount of snake worship that went on among cultures in the deep forgotten and carbon dated past.

[KimMPossible]

My point is there are norms in this world which if you think about it our just as ridiculous as the reptilian thing... im not criticizing religion, im just saying ... whats the difference?

There is no difference. According to you, all these things are equally ridiculous, but what you fail to note is that they are NOT polar opposites. Shape-shifting reptilians are in the same Bible as the guy who walked on water & rose from the dead. Ridiculous, or not, they are of the same cloth.

[Georgiacopguy]

You David Icke apologists are so revolting. The man is a fraud, his beliefs are fraudulent, and he stands a damn good chance of damaging the cause. But for some unknown, indefensible, and stupid reason, you people don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater, because he 'woke you up' or because he skirts the truth Alex freely tells without mixing it with tripe. Thats just bullshit.

[chrisfromchi]

You David Icke apologists are so revolting. The man is a fraud, his beliefs are fraudulent, and he stands a damn good chance of damaging the cause. But for some unknown, indefensible, and stupid reason, you people don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater, because he 'woke you up' or because he skirts the truth Alex freely tells without mixing it with tripe. Thats just bullshit.

why do you say this? Switch me to your side intellectually. If you don't want to be flamed private message me the reasons for you saying this with links.

i don't think you can do it and your only response is inflammatory language and baseless comments.

Have you seen an entire length speech? Where is he wrong exactly. I posted a link to the newest one can you watch that and enlighten us to why you feel this is true?

I can have my own opinion similar to yours very easily but i wouldn't use the word fraud.

In fact i could argue the exact same sense of what you are saying without any research but sway many more people.
I would be making it up but more effective than what you wrote.

[iRonic]

I love listening to David Icke, hes so passionate about what he says not even AJ can interupt him  

it was a great interview i loved it  

[Freeski]

Wow. Fascinating comparisson, but it's gonna piss some people off methinks.

[madworld21]

I think the real point is that if you trace history back 500 years and longer you are going to find out we don't know shit and you can't prove anything really.

And you would probably be freaked out at the amount of snake worship that went on among cultures in the deep forgotten and carbon dated past.

This snake worship is simply symbolism and allegory, as documented by Manly P. Hall and many others.

[TheQ]

lol  Alan Watt this, Alan Watt that...I wonder if Alan Watt mentions "infighting" when he describes counter-intelligence tactics... He sure doesnt shy away from attacking known personalities, directly or indirectly... That's counter-productive in my opinion... I found it odd also that he would appear on Freeman's show, someone who believes in ETs and Reptilians.... so someone who he has indirectly insulted..

[chrisfromchi]

This snake worship is simply symbolism and allegory, as documented by Manly P. Hall and many others.

Really?
India

Greece

Hopi snake priest.

Ya ...i guess your right...it was all made up by a guy in the 20th century and everything it has to do with is all made up...definitely no snake worship in separate cultures at all.

I'm so glad you proved that with all the proof you have of your side.

[Babylonsburning]

I dont think intellectuals understand the significance of conciousness.They would admit that the reptillian small brain and the worship/fear of reptiods/demons has existed throughout time however they cant comprehend why that would be important.
Even when all the empirical evidence shows we are under the insane domination of those that are using fear to control us,they have not the sanity and wisdom to turn away from this and live in love .We need to accept the growth and perceptions of those around us will always be personal.
Have the humility and wisdom to accept that we know nothing .
Personally i feel all wil be revealed as the exposure of the elite continues and the mask falls away

[Freeski]

Yeah, we can win but we need much more time. Once awake, always awake - our base is strong! The first wave of mass overt Internet censorship will represent the line in the sand. Just an opinion of course.

[TheCaliKid]

You forgot about the 13 tribes.........

[chrisfromchi]

For the record you are much better at that method of proving the subject than i am.

[Georgiacopguy]

The purpose of my post, was to post my opinion. Not debate. In fact, you are right, I probabvly could not debate you on him. Because the second he starts talking, I tune his crazy ass out. But he never submits proof, which you seem so fond of. He merely states hypothesis. With no backing whatsoever that I have ever seen or heard. To me, thats the epitome of a fraud. SNAKEoil sales at its worst, only in this case, he has unfortunately tied himself to our cause. I find that revolting, but all you apologists want to worship at the altara of Icke. So go right ahead, I have no intentions of tryingt to change your feeble minds on that matter. If thats what keeps you warm and happy at night, suckle at his teet all you like. I just hope I'm around to see the look on your face when you find you are wrong. I've stated my opinion, which was my goal, to voice my dissent. If you feel the need to flame, by all means, have at me. It's a wasted effort, I've made up my mind, you've made up yours.

why do you say this? Switch me to your side intellectually. If you don't want to be flamed private message me the reasons for you saying this with links.

i don't think you can do it and your only response is inflammatory language and baseless comments.

Have you seen an entire length speech? Where is he wrong exactly. I posted a link to the newest one can you watch that and enlighten us to why you feel this is true?

I can have my own opinion similar to yours very easily but i wouldn't use the word fraud.

In fact i could argue the exact same sense of what you are saying without any research but sway many more people.
I would be making it up but more effective than what you wrote.

[unbound]

The purpose of my post, was to post my opinion. Not debate. In fact, you are right, I probabvly could not debate you on him. Because the second he starts talking, I tune his crazy ass out. But he never submits proof, which you seem so fond of. He merely states hypothesis. With no backing whatsoever that I have ever seen or heard. To me, thats the epitome of a fraud. SNAKEoil sales at its worst, only in this case, he has unfortunately tied himself to our cause. I find that revolting, but all you apologists want to worship at the altara of Icke. So go right ahead, I have no intentions of tryingt to change your feeble minds on that matter. If thats what keeps you warm and happy at night, suckle at his teet all you like. I just hope I'm around to see the look on your face when you find you are wrong. I've stated my opinion, which was my goal, to voice my dissent. If you feel the need to flame, by all means, have at me. It's a wasted effort, I've made up my mind, you've made up yours.

You talk about 'the cause' like you own it. I find that to be revolting. Luckily we have something called freewill. Freewill allows us to think for ourselves and make our own conclusions. A lot of people don't believe his reptile stuff, and yet, those very same people who he woke up are starting to look at other aspects of what he talks about, which happens to coincide with the ideas that are mentioned here and other places. Either way you want to look at it, it's brought more people to 'your cause' than your cause has by itself. Your persecution of his followers for believing in the ideas and theories discussed here is revolting. You don't even know to which degree his 'followers' believe. They're individuals with different opinions. So I ask you, if David Icke woke somebody up, but they didn't believe in reptiles, then at some point their research brought them here and they supported the views here, what is the problem in that?

[deconstructmyhouse]

Notice how they always quit when they're about to be exposed for the intellectual frauds that they are?

oh no, the coward is back!  lol   (you're just jealous I had somewhere else to go! )

seriously, okay, you outed me as an intellectual fraud ie; someone who believes humans are changing/evolving, god forbid, maybe even for the better.  (hides her head in shame)

you outed me as a rooster-in-the-city vigilante who may be (somehow, therefore) a closet enemy of the constitution.

I concede and am happy to let bygones be bygones and get back to real issues...

you know how they say, so rightly, that turning us against one another is how they work the slow tyranny-take over?  We've just seen that in action via these emails between us.

so, how bout turning the fire extinguisher on the incendiary stuff and, for all of us in this thread, take the good in Icke and run with it, and leave what you don't need or believe in behind. 

Sometimes the polarity here seems remedial; by that i mean if there's one thing someone doesn't like about a guest, they are completely dumped on.  People can be different things; they can have wrong and right views, in fact, they most always do.   

I  can be an angel and an asshole.  How bout you?  I can be totally right and totally wrong about a myriad of things. 

The trick is for us all to stay discerning and allow each other the latitude to spin out our thoughts and beliefs in any direction we want. 

We are here to fight those who want to kill and enslave 3/4 of the world.  Icke doesn't want to do that.  we are here to fight tyranny, the rise of a military dictatorship, the shredding of our Constitution,  economic violence, the aggressive slaughter of innocents worldwide under the American flag, the theft and abuse of our children, the poisoning of our air and food and bloodstream by a rising fourth reich of eugenicists. 

We've got a lot of work to do; we won't do it while we're bickering.  So, Mr. So. Cal, I concede and now turn my head to constructive ways of building friendship, resistance, empowering ourselves and each other, and helping others wake up.

[Georgiacopguy]

I own nothing, but I feel we should all take steps to disassociate the cause from other beleif structures which might damage it's credibility. It's been stated a hundred times if it's been stated once, people go to friends, and start talking about Alex Jones, or what we beleive, and then some moron who heard a snippet of Icke's tripe starts blathering on about how anybody who would beleive any of that crap is a lunatic. Just because he opens minds does not mean he should get a free pass on his bullshit. Sometimes a mind that is open to everything is more a liability than it is a boon. I might have a scientologist firend who is trying to convert me, and he might open my mind by telling me something about how the government is about to sell out to the NWO. So does that lend credibility to the scientology aspect???

You talk about 'the cause' like you own it. I find that to be revolting. Luckily we have something called freewill. Freewill allows us to think for ourselves and make our own conclusions. A lot of people don't believe his reptile stuff, and yet, those very same people who he woke up are starting to look at other aspects of what he talks about, which happens to coincide with the ideas that are mentioned here and other places. Either way you want to look at it, it's brought more people to 'your cause' than your cause has by itself. Your persecution of his followers for believing in the ideas and theories discussed here is revolting. You don't even know to which degree his 'followers' believe. They're individuals with different opinions. So I ask you, if David Icke woke somebody up, but they didn't believe in reptiles, then at some point their research brought them here and they supported the views here, what is the problem in that?