What is wrong with kids these days?

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Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #200 on: October 12, 2009, 02:14:51 AM »
Well, if you consider me irrelevant, then I consider you irrelevant. My, are we in gradeschool or what? Are we going to degrade ourselves to toddlers here?

Oh, you know exactly what they say? Then perhaps that little transcript that I posted - perhaps you know what Alan Watt is talking about there as well? That is a transcript from one of Alan Watt's shows where he tells you:
1 * The CIA controlled nearly all academic institutions, art exhibitions during the Cold War Period (and movies and music as well)
2 * They are still doing this - the book only covers all the stuff the public is allowed to know now - because it's 'old news'.

That's some kooky shit right there!  I guess even your very words that you type here were invented by the CIA.  How do you live every day?
And it's not 'Alan Watts' - it's 'Alan Watt'. Totally different guy, no connection altogether. Bit surprised you wouldn't know this.

I'm actually testing Harold Garfinkel theory on you that all humans are a few minutes and phrases away from total insanity.  It seems to be working, except you just won't shut up.  It wouldn't even surprise me if he had connections to the CIA.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #201 on: October 12, 2009, 02:16:15 AM »
contra_imperium:

Well, talk about douchebaggery... that seems to be your forte as well... as if I don't have anything better to do than to please your egotistical ass...

tell you what dude - you ain't worth my time, and I already wasted enough of it as it is. Let the dead bury the dead, as they say. You want to be dumb and a retard, go on right ahead - knock yourselves out.

Aw, but you already put all this time into it and you're so smart.  Can't you educate another in your own words without the CIA influence?  Granted you'd have to find phrases which they didn't invent and concepts which they didn't invent, but I know you're capable of doing it.

luckee1

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #202 on: October 12, 2009, 02:17:41 AM »
Both of you need to quit.

Contra, you are aware that some of the Mods here are from Europe?  So all that commentary about Eurotrash fags  http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=139572.msg841759#msg841759 might not argue your case so well.  

The videos of those children grinding pubes and the standing 69 are horrible.  It does look like TPTB wants everyone to consider children as sexual objects.  No wonder we have such high rates of pedophilia here.  Defending this crap is just going along with TPTB.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #203 on: October 12, 2009, 02:22:04 AM »
Both of you need to quit.

Contra, you are aware that some of the Mods here are from Europe?  So all that commentary about Eurotrash fags  http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=139572.msg841759#msg841759 might not argue your case so well.  

The videos of those children grinding pubes and the standing 69 are horrible.  It does look like TPTB wants everyone to consider children as sexual objects.  No wonder we have such high rates of pedophilia here.  Defending this crap is just going along with TPTB.

Thanks for your two cents.  I am friends with most of them mods, I think anyone reading this thread would understand the implicit problem with discussing anything with squarepusher.

Yes, that third world culture is despicable.  Hopefully the IMF or perhaps corporate America along with song god luving xtians or maybe squarepusher along with the EU can go in there real soon and put all those people in camps.  I see you like this idea.

Offline squarepusher

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #204 on: October 12, 2009, 02:23:55 AM »
Thanks for your two cents.  I am friends with most of them mods, I think anyone reading this thread would understand the implicit problem with discussing anything with squarepusher.

Yes, that third world culture is despicable.  Hopefully the IMF or perhaps corporate America along with song god luving xtians or maybe squarepusher along with the EU can go in there real soon and put all those people in camps.  I see you like this idea.

Oh, so this is all about 'being friends' with the mods and using them to brown-nose those you cannot talk down to succinctly without showing yourself up for the discredited individual you really are?

Before you start accusing others of bad behavior, first you have to start looking at yourself. You were not exactly Mr. Civility here in this thread yourself. Nowhere did you make an effort to actually 'read' or engage your 'brain'.

Fact of life: People post 'entire' articles here. Sane does it regularly. It is required of a thinking individual here to READ THESE FRICKIN' THINGS. That's why they are here. This is not a goddamn game, dude - you've got to spent your time on this forum wisely and actually do something to broaden your knowledge about these subjects. This is not some form of emotive role playing game or some socialising event - this is a place to learn, and learning ENTAILS READING LONG SWATHS OF TEXT.

Guess what - in a year, you won't be having this little thing called the Internet anymore. You best start using that time wisely before then.
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Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #205 on: October 12, 2009, 02:26:43 AM »
Oh, so this is all about 'being friends' with the mods and using them to brown-nose those you cannot talk down to succinctly without showing yourself up for the discredited individual you really are?

Oh no, you seem unhappy.  I hope Garfinkel's book explains how to make the patient sane again.  OMG!!! 

 ;D

Hey, it's satire, it's all in good humor just like the Charlie Sheen stunt a few weeks back - hyperbole - get a grip - undo the panties from their bunch.

jeez!

luckee1

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #206 on: October 12, 2009, 02:31:18 AM »
Thanks for your two cents.  I am friends with most of them mods, I think anyone reading this thread would understand the implicit problem with discussing anything with squarepusher.

Yes, that third world culture is despicable.  Hopefully the IMF or perhaps corporate America along with song god luving xtians or maybe squarepusher along with the EU can go in there real soon and put all those people in camps.  I see you like this idea.

I don't like the taste of those words, SO QUIT PUTTING THEM IN MY MOUTH!
This so-called dancing was not being done by children like that 40 years ago.  You act like you are looking down your erudite nose at those of us who do not want to see children being sexually compromised or exploited like the tools the TPTB are engineering.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #207 on: October 12, 2009, 02:44:01 AM »
I don't like the taste of those words, SO QUIT PUTTING THEM IN MY MOUTH!
This so-called dancing was not being done by children like that 40 years ago.  You act like you are looking down your erudite nose at those of us who do not want to see children being sexually compromised or exploited like the tools the TPTB are engineering.

You sound like a brainwashed cult member saying that I either agree with you or else i like the video or something. 

I am entitled to my own opinion on it.  I don't see a local culture as being the one which the TPTB engineered, especially when other cultures have been dancing like that for eons, even old African tribes have danced like this.  Sex and dancing were not invented after WWII.  Do you understand?  Now, I agree that some of the old South American cultures have hardcore practices and perhaps that is what this video is showing.  I don't blame them.  I am sure the rich elites that live right beside them have no need for old dance traditions which help girls and boys learn about the next stage in their life. That is the intent of these dances in these cultures - is to learn about the next stage in life - marriage and children.  You may say that they turn out differently and that is fine, but I am simply sharing my opinion on what they are doing and why.

The problem here is with you not liking the fact that I disagree.  That's your problem.

Offline Dig

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #208 on: October 12, 2009, 10:40:47 AM »
Hey contra...

you wanna apologize for trolling this thread that is fairly important in exposing what the NWO is doing to our children?

thanking you in advance.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #209 on: October 12, 2009, 10:48:41 AM »
Romney, Torture, and Teens

The former governor's connections to child abuse sex slavery camps

http://www.reason.com/news/show/121088.html
Maia Szalavitz | June 27, 2007

When Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said he’d support doubling the size of the prison at Guantanamo Bay, he was trying to show voters that he’d be tough on terror. Two of his top fundraisers, however, have long supported using tactics that have been likened to torture for troubled teenagers.

As The Hill noted last week, 133 plaintiffs filed a civil suit against Romney’s Utah finance co-chair, Robert Lichfield, and his various business entities involved in residential treatment programs for adolescents. The umbrella group for his organization is the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS, sometimes known as WWASP) and Lichfield is its founder and is on its board of directors.

The suit alleges that teens were locked in outdoor dog cages, exercised to exhaustion, deprived of food and sleep, exposed to extreme temperatures without adequate clothing or water, severely beaten, emotionally brutalized, and sexually abused and humiliated. Some were even made to eat their own vomit.

But the link to teen abuse goes far higher up in the Romney campaign. Romney’s national finance co-chair is a man named Mel Sembler. A long time friend of the Bushes, Sembler was campaign finance chair for the Republican party during the first election of George W. Bush, and a major fundraiser for his father.

Like Lichfield, Sembler also founded a nationwide network of treatment programs for troubled youth. Known as Straight Inc., from 1976 to 1993, it variously operated nine programs in seven states. At all of Straight’s facilities, state investigators and/or civil lawsuits documented scores of abuses including teens being beaten, deprived of food and sleep for days, restrained by fellow youth for hours, bound, sexually humiliated, abused and spat upon.

According to the L.A. Times, California investigators said that at Straight teens were “subjected to unusual punishment, infliction of pain, humiliation, intimidation, ridicule, coercion, threats, mental abuse… and interference with daily living functions such as eating, sleeping and toileting.”

Through a spokesperson, Lichfield has dismissed the similar charges against WWASPS to The Hill as “ludicrous,” claiming that the teens who sued “have a long history of lying, fabricating and twisting the story around to their own benefit.”

Straight would use virtually identical language in its denials: In the 1990 L.A. Times article cited above, a Straight counselor downplayed the California investigators’ report by saying, “Some kids get very upset and lie and some parents believe them.” Both Straight and WWASPS have repeatedly called their teen participants “liars” and “manipulators” who oppose the programs because they want to continue taking drugs or engage in other bad behavior.

Curiously, however, both programs regularly admitted teens who did not actually have serious problems. In 1982, 18-year-old Fred Collins, a Virginia Tech student with excellent grades, went to visit his brother, who was in treatment for a drug problem at Straight in Orlando, Florida.

A counselor determined that he was high on marijuana because his eyes were red (this would later turn out to have been due to swimming in a pool with contacts on). He did admit to occasional marijuana use, but insisted he was not high at the time, nor was he an addict. Nonetheless, he was barraged with hours of humiliating questions, strip-searched, and held against his will for months until he managed to escape.

He won $220,000 in a lawsuit he filed against the program for false imprisonment, intentional infliction of emotional distress, assault, and battery. Ultimately, Straight would pay out millions in settlements before it finally closed. However, to this day, there are at least eight programs operating that use Straight’s methods, often in former Straight buildings operated by former Straight staff. They include: Alberta Adolescent Recovery Center (Canada), Pathway Family Center (Michigan, Indiana, Ohio), Growing Together (Florida), Possibilities Unlimited (Kentucky), SAFE (Florida), and Phoenix Institute for Adolescents (Georgia).

Sembler has never admitted to the problems with Straight's methods. In fact, when he recently served as Ambassador to Italy, he listed it among his accomplishments on his official State Department profile. Although all of the programs with the Straight name are closed, the nonprofit Straight Foundation that funded them still exists, though under a different name. It's now called the Drug Free America Foundation, and it lobbies for drug testing and in support of tougher policies in the war on drugs.

One of the plaintiffs in the current case against WWASPS, 21-year-old Chelsea Filer, spoke to me when I was researching a TV segment on the industry. She told me that she was forced to walk for miles on a track in scorching desert heat with a 35-pound sandbag on her back. “You were not allowed to scratch your face, move your fingers, lick your lips, move your eyes from the ground,” she said. When she asked for a chapstick, “They put a piece of wood in my mouth and I had to hold it there for two weeks. I was bleeding on my tongue.”

Why was Filer subject to such punishment? “I had less interest in school and more interest in boys and my mom was worried about me,” she says, explaining that her mother believed that the program was nothing more than a strict boarding school.

Because she has attention deficit disorder, Filer was unable to consistently follow the exacting rules, and repeated small violations were seen as ongoing defiance. “It broke my heart that my mom had no belief in me,” she says, describing how, because WWASPS had told her mother to dismiss complaints as “manipulation,” her mother ignored her pleas to come home.

“I’m not a bad kid,” she continued, “I never used drugs, I was never in trouble, I have no criminal record. I know my mom was worried about me—but so many times I told her that this is too much. I would gladly have gone to prison instead.”

WWASPS is linked with facilities Academy at Ivy Ridge (New York), Carolina Springs Academy (South Carolina), Cross Creek Programs (Utah), Darrington Academy (Georgia), Horizon Academy (Nevada), Majestic Ranch Academy (Utah), MidWest Academy (Iowa), Respect Camp (Mississippi), Royal Gorge Academy (Colorado), Spring Creek Lodge (Montana), and Tranquility Bay (Jamaica).

Although it has settled several lawsuits out of court, the organization has never publicly admitted wrong-doing. However, the U.S. State Department spurred Samoa to investigate its Paradise Cove program in 1998 after receiving “credible allegations of physical abuse,” including “beatings, isolation, food and water deprivation, choke-holds, kicking, punching, bondage, spraying with chemical agents, forced medication, verbal abuse and threats of further physical abuse.” Paradise Cove closed shortly thereafter. That same year, the Czech Republic forced the closure of WWASP-linked Morava Academy following employees’ allegations that teens were being abused.

The former director of the Dundee Ranch Academy Program in Costa Rica went to local authorities after seeing medical neglect and other severe abuse, although human rights abuse charges were ultimately dropped against the owner, Robert Lichfield’s brother Narvin. That program closed in 2003.

Police in Mexico have shut down three WWASP-linked facilities: Sunrise Beach (1996), Casa By The Sea (2004) and High Impact (where police videotaped the teens chained in dog cages).

In 2005, New York’s Eliot Spitzer forced WWASP to return over $1 million to the parents of Academy at Ivy Ridge students, because the school had fraudulently claimed to provide legitimate New York high school diplomas. He fined Ivy Ridge $250,000, plus $2000 in court costs. A civil suit has been filed for educational fraud in New York as well, by a different law firm.

Straight's Sembler currently heads the Scooter Libby Defense Fund, in addition to his work for Romney, and has worked tirelessly to keep the Vice President's former Chief of Staff out of prison, even after his conviction on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. After all, if running programs that impose these kinds of "treatments" on American teenagers is not a prison-worthy offense, why should lying to a court be?

The Romney campaign is aware of the WWASP suits, and should be familiar with the Straight suits. If not, it's worth asking: Does Romney support these types of tactics for at-risk youth? Or does he take the line the organizations founded by his fundraisers take—that these dozens of lawsuits are merely from bad kids who make up lies?

Coming from the man who wants to double the size of Guantanamo, these aren't insignificant questions. If Romney doesn't believe the aggressive tactics he supports for use against enemy combatants ought to be used against troubled teens and youth drug users, he should say so, and show he means it by removing these men from his campaign.

Maia Szalavitz is author of Help At Any Cost: How the Troubled-Teen Industry Cons Parents and Hurts Kids (Riverhead, 2006) and a senior fellow at stats.org. Her latest book, co-written with Dr. Bruce D. Perry is The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog and Other Stories from a Child Psychiatrist's Notebook. (Basic Books, 2007).
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Offline TheHouseMan

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #210 on: October 12, 2009, 12:42:53 PM »
Some rather hardcore info has been posted in this thread, but frankly, I think it's just a mix of bad parenting, bad education, bad food/water supplies, and influential TV and music. Music has been known to alter moods, and most people are very vulnerable to the vibes.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #211 on: October 13, 2009, 01:10:20 PM »
Hey contra...

you wanna apologize for trolling this thread that is fairly important in exposing what the NWO is doing to our children?

thanking you in advance.

Well, Sane, since you admit to trolling threads yourself, I will make some apologies and some conclusions.

I apologize to Jackson Holly whom I do admire and whose comments I read.  I felt that he was baiting me with the cultural relativism junk and I think he knows better.  I would rather have genuine discussion with him and I am sorry that I said inappropriate comments and I know that he knows that the problem lies in my brain and not his.

I apologize to Burl Guy with whom I have no real issues and whose comments I also read.  I don't appreciate him jumping into the thread to attack me and I would ask him to rather have genuine discussion with me, but I am sorry that I wrote inappropriate comments to him.

Now to everyone else, let's clear a few things up.

Stop the group think.  So I disagree, big deal, it is not the time to attack me or to bait me, rather try to discuss things. 

I never wrote in any post in this thread that I supported or thought the behavior in the videos was great.  I asked that people consider the cultural context of the videos instead of making rash judgments.  I think the behavior in the videos is not age appropriate, but I reserve all my harsh criticism until I know more.  The first video looked to be a very poor neighborhood and the comments below it in the link consisted of different Latin American citizens pawning off the behavior on their poorer neighbors. 

I don't think their behavior of dancing and pretend copulation is due to MTV and the CIA.  I am allowed to have a different opinion on this.

Squarepusher - you need to reconsider who your enemy is.  It's not me.  I am familiar with the sources you cited and I don't necessarily disagree with them, BUT I am interested in discussing the most illogical comment which you posted while citing Watt that all culture is made up by the CIA.  That idea is too simple, too generalized, and means very little, and de-privileges humanity.  If you are going to make comments that have no basis in reality, then you should expect people to make you clarify it.  The other issue at hand is the hypocrisy of you attacking me as some Marxist when I am not and secondly quoting Marx as part of your attack - this would make you a Marxist too. (When you say that culture is produced by the powers to be, then you are making a most original Marxist comment.) Why don't you discuss the issue I was bringing up instead of calling me kid and using my opinion as your whipping post. 

I'll discuss with you what culture is and how much of it is influenced by the powers to be, but not under the premise that one of us is more awake than the other or some other such nonsense.

I feel passionately about NOT labeling other cultures as degenerate because both the Nazis and Maoists used the same argument to wreck real havoc.

Finally, I don't appreciate the amount of attacks I get when I post in threads.  This needs to stop.  I am sick of fighting and baiting tactics - it's better to have real discussion.

But, if you attack and bait me, I will respond.  I not sorry about defending myself against baiting and attacking in what would otherwise be a normal discussion. 

Think about it.




Offline Dig

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #212 on: October 13, 2009, 09:11:26 PM »
Well, Sane, since you admit to trolling threads yourself, I will make some apologies and some conclusions.

I apologize to Jackson Holly whom I do admire and whose comments I read.  I felt that he was baiting me with the cultural relativism junk and I think he knows better.  I would rather have genuine discussion with him and I am sorry that I said inappropriate comments and I know that he knows that the problem lies in my brain and not his.

I apologize to Burl Guy with whom I have no real issues and whose comments I also read.  I don't appreciate him jumping into the thread to attack me and I would ask him to rather have genuine discussion with me, but I am sorry that I wrote inappropriate comments to him.

Now to everyone else, let's clear a few things up.

Stop the group think.  So I disagree, big deal, it is not the time to attack me or to bait me, rather try to discuss things. 

I never wrote in any post in this thread that I supported or thought the behavior in the videos was great.  I asked that people consider the cultural context of the videos instead of making rash judgments.  I think the behavior in the videos is not age appropriate, but I reserve all my harsh criticism until I know more.  The first video looked to be a very poor neighborhood and the comments below it in the link consisted of different Latin American citizens pawning off the behavior on their poorer neighbors. 

I don't think their behavior of dancing and pretend copulation is due to MTV and the CIA.  I am allowed to have a different opinion on this.

Squarepusher - you need to reconsider who your enemy is.  It's not me.  I am familiar with the sources you cited and I don't necessarily disagree with them, BUT I am interested in discussing the most illogical comment which you posted while citing Watt that all culture is made up by the CIA.  That idea is too simple, too generalized, and means very little, and de-privileges humanity.  If you are going to make comments that have no basis in reality, then you should expect people to make you clarify it.  The other issue at hand is the hypocrisy of you attacking me as some Marxist when I am not and secondly quoting Marx as part of your attack - this would make you a Marxist too. (When you say that culture is produced by the powers to be, then you are making a most original Marxist comment.) Why don't you discuss the issue I was bringing up instead of calling me kid and using my opinion as your whipping post. 

I'll discuss with you what culture is and how much of it is influenced by the powers to be, but not under the premise that one of us is more awake than the other or some other such nonsense.

I feel passionately about NOT labeling other cultures as degenerate because both the Nazis and Maoists used the same argument to wreck real havoc.

Finally, I don't appreciate the amount of attacks I get when I post in threads.  This needs to stop.  I am sick of fighting and baiting tactics - it's better to have real discussion.

But, if you attack and bait me, I will respond.  I not sorry about defending myself against baiting and attacking in what would otherwise be a normal discussion. 

Think about it.


ok, but there are a few glaring issues...

I COME FROM THAT CULTURE, WTF? THIS IS NOT A CULTURAL ISSUE, WHAT CULTURE DO YOU SPEAK OF? IS THIS YOUR CULTURE? YOU HANG IN THE HOOD OFTEN?

I have given numerous examples of how this has been documented as a part of predictive programming.

I have given numerous examples of other cultures also being programmed in like ways with even more demoralizing, dehumanizing, and dis-self-respectful ways.

This ain't culture, it is a program. Please tell me where people dance like that in "some cultures", are you mad? Please find any culture on earth where that is an uplifting, self respecting, and honorable way to interact with others.

And I will gladly apologize.

;)
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Eckhart Tolle

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #213 on: October 13, 2009, 09:15:36 PM »
INSANE.


YOU HAVE HIP-HOP AND RAP TO THANK FOR THIS.



Gangsta Rap Made Me Do It
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #214 on: October 13, 2009, 10:17:49 PM »

This ain't culture, it is a program. Please tell me where people dance like that in "some cultures", are you mad? Please find any culture on earth where that is an uplifting, self respecting, and honorable way to interact with others.

And I will gladly apologize.

;)

Hey, this isn't about a pissing contest where somebody wins and somebody loses.  I am not mad and I don't need any apologies to continue this discussion.  Why would we have a discussion where some one get's mad in the first place?  Please see my points above about not baiting in argument but rather just discussing.

Before I begin - let me re iterate that the dances in video 1 and 2 are graphic by our standards and I am not sure I can produce another video so graphic nor would I want to.  But here are some examples.

I first learned about fertility dances in the ancient world.  There are many festivals where sometimes girls only other times boys and girls danced provocatively for the townsfolk.  A place to learn about these dances would be the following text: M. Dillon, Girls and Women in Classical Greek Religion (London, Routledge, 2002).

http://books.google.com/books?id=yww8Jj8CJhsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false

search term "dance" http://books.google.com/books?id=yww8Jj8CJhsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=dance&f=false

If I get a second, I'll provide the specific page numbers, but I have to go back over the sections.

But more recently I've heard about these kind of dances in African dance.  The examples I post are obviously not extreme, but do contain something like "dirty dancing".

These are all African dances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOdHFOiM9d0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6XB3ANZpfA  (look at marker 3:40)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLhnCEvjY60 (look at marker 6:30)

Unyago performed at a bridal show http://www.eastafricantube.com/media/11010/Kutoka_Tanga-2/

Quote
In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the dances and rituals of unyago lasted seven days.31 Each kungwi gathered together all of the area women whom she had previously initiated, either in the home of one of the makungwi or at a remote location in the countryside, and together these older women who knew the secrets of unyago helped to instruct the latest group of young women to reach sexual maturity. During the seven days of instruction the young women were ritually transformed from girls into women. Through a series of lectures, dances, songs, and demonstrations the wari (singular mwari), or girls who had reached puberty but had not yet married, were taught about a whole range of women's issues: male and female physiology, the physical aspects of sexuality, desire and orgasm, masturbation, and physical relations between men and women.32 Through very explicit songs and dances girls were taught how to achieve sexual satisfaction for themselves and their partners as well as various ways of having sexual intercourse. Several women demonstrated these lessons for the young girls while other women danced and sang to songs such as "Grind, grind, grind for me my husband," "The sought after one has been slept with, has been slept with, has been taken with the mouth," or "If you grind, grind in front, the rear is for the stupid."33 Girls were also taught about fertility enhancement and prevention, pregnancy, birth, and child care. Showing respect for elders and living peacefully with in-laws were also stressed in the songs and teachings of unyago. The bonds formed between initiates and between the young women and their instructors lasted a lifetime. Through unyago women created intimate gender-based social networks whose strength women drew upon throughout their lives for personal, economic, and political empowerment.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3687/is_199601/ai_n8733511/pg_4/


I do not have the reference on hand for early Latin American culture, but the wiki entry on Latin American culture does hint to such sexual dancing:

Quote
Latin America has a strong tradition of evolving dance styles. Some of its dance and music is considered to emphasize sexuality, and have become popular outside of their countries of origin. Salsa and the more popular Latin dances were created and embraced into the culture in the early and middle 1900s and has since been able to retain its significance both in and outside the Americas. The mariachi bands of Mexico stirred up quick paced rhythms and playful movements at the same time that Cuba embraced similar musical and dance styles. Traditional dances were blended with new, modern ways of moving, evolving into a blended, more contemporary forms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_American_culture

Setting aside sexy dancing for a moment, I'd rather have a discussion about the word culture, since it seems to be a dirty word around here.

Offline Dig

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #215 on: October 13, 2009, 10:43:06 PM »
Hey, this isn't about a pissing contest where somebody wins and somebody loses.  I am not mad and I don't need any apologies to continue this discussion.  Why would we have a discussion where some one get's mad in the first place?  Please see my points above about not baiting in argument but rather just discussing.

Before I begin - let me re iterate that the dances in video 1 and 2 are graphic by our standards and I am not sure I can produce another video so graphic nor would I want to.  But here are some examples.

I first learned about fertility dances in the ancient world.  There are many festivals where sometimes girls only other times boys and girls danced provocatively for the townsfolk.  A place to learn about these dances would be the following text: M. Dillon, Girls and Women in Classical Greek Religion (London, Routledge, 2002).

http://books.google.com/books?id=yww8Jj8CJhsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false

search term "dance" http://books.google.com/books?id=yww8Jj8CJhsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=dance&f=false

If I get a second, I'll provide the specific page numbers, but I have to go back over the sections.

But more recently I've heard about these kind of dances in African dance.  The examples I post are obviously not extreme, but do contain something like "dirty dancing".

These are all African dances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOdHFOiM9d0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6XB3ANZpfA  (look at marker 3:40)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLhnCEvjY60 (look at marker 6:30)

Unyago performed at a bridal show http://www.eastafricantube.com/media/11010/Kutoka_Tanga-2/

I do not have the reference on hand for early Latin American culture, but the wiki entry on Latin American culture does hint to such sexual dancing:

Setting aside sexy dancing for a moment, I'd rather have a discussion about the word culture, since it seems to be a dirty word around here.

pissing contest? why are you being so defensive? it seems very odd i thought we were having a discussion.

also why are you giving references for something completely unrelated? you are mentioning fertility dances which has nothing to do with this, why?

also you continue to troll this thread after being asked ever so nicely to stop, is there a particular reason that you continually are attempting to hijack threads into "the bald soprano" type absurdity?

so I guess this is gonna be the last time sparky...

please do not troll this forum.

thanking you in advance.

dude, please do not fricking troll this forum again.

thanks
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Offline φυδγε

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #216 on: October 13, 2009, 10:45:23 PM »
This discussion reminds me of every single interview on FOX News and Glenn Beck.  Have I entered bizarro land? 

Ok, I won't post here anymore.

I've only been waiting two years for you to say so.

Offline Dig

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #217 on: October 14, 2009, 05:10:26 AM »
This discussion reminds me of every single interview on FOX News and Glenn Beck.  Have I entered bizarro land? 

Ok, I won't post here anymore.

I've only been waiting two years for you to say so.

sorry to keep you waiting so long.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Outer Haven

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #218 on: October 14, 2009, 09:59:59 AM »
Quote
I first learned about fertility dances in the ancient world.

You mean, you travelled back in time to the ancient world to learn about it? Interesting.
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Offline Dok

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #219 on: October 14, 2009, 10:19:40 AM »

You mean, you travelled back in time to the ancient world to learn about it? Interesting.

i thought he meant Europe.  ???
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Offline Outer Haven

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #220 on: October 14, 2009, 11:16:28 AM »
i thought he meant Europe.  ???
Or maybe he's so old he remembers the ancient world and the good ole fertility dances?  ???
"If this is the only way, we have no choice but to proceed. What is there to vacillate about?"

Offline Donovan

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #221 on: October 14, 2009, 11:46:43 AM »

  I was talking to some of my old high school friends the other day about how we enjoyed playing basketball and football after school back in the 60's and 70's.  Now you don't see kids playing sports anymore.  Now they are into this crap--a precursor to baby-making.  What a sick world.

The problem is society.

Imagine being a kid/teen today.  You go out and play football or baseball with your friends, the cops show up and tell you to go home.  If you live in a larger city you run a risk being  "jumped" by group of thugs or gang members.


Being a teen in the 90's, my friends and I couldnt do anything.  If we simply sat and hung out somewhere in the town (and we lived in a small town) the cops would show up, search us, and tell us to leave or we'd get arrested for loitering.  We were neither causing trouble, nor were we doing anything illegal.  We were as intimidating as a box of kittens, and were nerds.

If we wanted to play ball in the ball fields (which the town owned) we had to be in the league (which cost too much money for most) otherwise security would show up and tell us to leave.  So we were left with the only option of playing ball in backyard of friends homes, which we did, but its not the same.

Being younger in the 80's we saw the change happen with our generation.  We remembered playing openly, never being harassed or told to leave.  I still remember when kids in elementary would bring their toy guns and basically everyone would play a large game of cops and robbers.  Then the rules started setting in .... first it was the toy guns had to be brightly colored, then they were outright banned (as were a great many things like snowball fights).

I'm pretty sure its much worse now, and I can imagine how bored they are now.


Offline Outer Haven

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #222 on: March 19, 2015, 11:36:43 AM »
A little flashback...
"If this is the only way, we have no choice but to proceed. What is there to vacillate about?"

Offline madasheck

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #223 on: March 19, 2015, 12:47:50 PM »
Or maybe he's so old he remembers the ancient world and the good ole fertility dances?  ???

No, he studied Classics from his teen years up until he recently earned his doctorate.
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Offline Al Bundy

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Re: What is wrong with kids these days?
« Reply #224 on: November 22, 2016, 01:22:40 PM »
Kids, boys and girls are "junkies" of Smartphones, Tablets, Computers, Internet....