Author Topic: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD  (Read 17332 times)

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Offline J. Croft

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THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« on: October 04, 2009, 03:31:41 pm »
Copy and spread this around the net now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq-OhRZX8dw

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Offline Dok

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Re: EVIDENCE OF VOTE FRAUD IN IRISH EU REFERENDUM!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2009, 03:34:49 pm »
didnt the boxes just sit there all night long with no one around all night, so that they could count them the next day?  ::)
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Re: EVIDENCE OF VOTE FRAUD IN IRISH EU REFERENDUM!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 03:58:59 pm »
With such big stakes at risk, there was plenty of time to rig the vote and brainwash the population into thinking this is a solution for the engineered problems created by govts.
Also, they have learned that rigging votes gets presidents elected in the United States of Washington D.C. Inc.

Offline chris jones

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Re: EVIDENCE OF VOTE FRAUD IN IRISH EU REFERENDUM!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2009, 04:37:15 pm »



The Irish will not allow his to be swept under the rug.

Offline Sub-X

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THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2009, 03:49:57 am »
THE IRISH REFERENDUM OUTCOME IS NULL AND VOID
One World Scam
5 October 2009




THE IRISH REFERENDUM OUTCOME IS NULL AND VOID
BALLOT BOXES ILLEGALLY DELIVERED 48 HOURS IN ADVANCE
Monday 5 October 2009 00:01

IRISH ELECTORAL LAW FLOUTED, CANCELLING OUT THE RESULT

BLATANT AMERICAN INTERFERENCE IN IRELAND'S INTERNAL AFFAIRS

ILLEGAL BLUEPRINT FOR THE INTENDED EUROPEAN GESTAPO

NOTORIOUS IRISH EUROPHILE HINTS AT THIS WEBSITE

YES, THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION IS A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE

PLUS: REPEAT OF THE UPDATE APPENDED TO THE REPORT OF 2ND OCTOBER

• BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION MORE EFFICIENT THAN BLITZKRIEG

• SUBVERSION OF EUROPEAN NATIONS, SUBVERSION OF THE UNITED STATES


IRISH ELECTORAL LAW FLOUTED, CANCELLING OUT THE RESULT
Our published information that the Irish Referendum on the dictatorial Lisbon Treaty was rigged, is ACCURATE. However at the time of the Update to the report dated 2nd October (see below) we hadn’t yet obtained details of the WAY the Referendum was rigged and influenced in favour of the treacherous YES lobby. We now have this information.

This is how the Irish were ‘persuaded’ to change their minds:

(1): Ballot boxes may have been stuffed prior to the Referendum polling booths opening.

Specifically:

• Under Irish law, ballot boxes are required to be delivered by members of the garda (police) to the polling stations at 7:00 am on the date the election takes place.

• This legal requirement applies to ALL polling in Ireland, whether elections or referenda.

• On this occasion, however, the ballot boxes were delivered to the private residences of the polling/Returning Officers, 48 hours prior to the Referendum.

• A number of honest Returning Officers formally objected to this BREACH OF PROCEDURE, and to the concomitant prospective breach of security, let alone of the electoral legislation.

• We understand that such objections were officially dismissed out of hand on the spurious and diversionary grounds that the ballot boxes possessed no commercial value, so it would be in nobody’s commercial interest to steal them.

• The central issue – that since the Irish ballot boxes were delivered 48 hours early they could be ‘stuffed’ with YES votes, as routinely happens in places like the former Soviet Republic of Georgia – was of course not addressed.

• It follows that, given that the local electoral law was flouted, THE OUTCOME OF THE IRISH REFERENDUM IS FRAUDULENT AND MUST IMMEDIATELY BE DECLARED NULL AND VOID.

• Furthermore, the following questions NEED TO BE ANSWERED IMMEDIATELY:

ONE: What is the total number of registered voters in Ireland?

TWO: How many voters voted in the Referendum?

THREE: Was the total vote tally greater than #One above?

• Any operation to steamroller the Lisbon Treaty (after the Polish and Czech Governments have been bribed by the Germans) will accordingly be FRAUDULENT on this basis alone.

• It will therefore follow that ALL MEASURES taken under the Lisbon Treaty will likewise be illegal – not that this is anything new, as the European Union Collective is itself blatantly illegal, not least because the Treaty of Rome documents were never properly signed (given that several attendees signed blank sheets of paper because their translations were not available at the time of signing).

(2) Blatant American interference in the internal affairs of Ireland:

• INTEL (which is of course a US intelligence community operation, as its name implies) advertised heavily for a YES vote, promoting the FALSE assessment that if the Irish voted NO, ‘Ireland could be left isolated from the European Single Market at a time when the economy needs support’ (1) (because it has been ENRONISED by the Syndicate, as previously explained in these reports).

• That assertion was a blatant falsehood. The Single Market operates under the successive treaties of the fraudulent EU Collective, the currently applicable one being the Nice Treaty. Therefore, whether Lisbon was approved or not would make no difference at all.

• Thus the CIA’s INTEL was LYING TO THE IRISH PEOPLE.

On the basis of this precedent, we presume that the United States would have no objection if, say, the British were to buy newspaper space and broadcast time to lobby for a given outcome every time the United States goes to the polls.

(One can imagine how FURIOUS Americans would be if we tried any such outrage).

• This blatant US intelligence community interference in Irish internal affairs by the engine of instability which has ravaged the Irish financial economy represents yet another odious example of the notorious tendency for the CIA to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries in pursuit of its own selfish objectives – in this case, shoring up the prospectively disintegrating European wing of the TWIN DVD operation to assert the hegemony of pan-German long-range control strategy on the two main victors of the World Wars, Britain and America.

• Unsurprisingly, letters are now appearing in the press [as for instance in The Sunday Telegraph of 4th October] making our point that the so-called Special Relationship is a total farce and has been for decades, as the United States routinely treats Britain with contempt: as, for instance, by allowing the DVD-activated IRA and its splinters to raise money in the United States for the purpose of murdering British citizens and troops en masse.

• The fraudulent Irish Referendum outcome theoretically destroys residual British sovereignty, given that the EU exists explicitly to usurp and hijack the sovereignty of its satrap ‘Member States’: see the Editor’s work ‘The European Union Collective: Enemy of its Member States’ [available from the Edward Harle Limited books segment of this website].

ILLEGAL BLUEPRINT FOR THE INTENDED EUROPEAN GESTAPO
Officials in Brussels have ALREADY set up a Committee on Internal Security (COSI) under the Lisbon Treaty EVEN THOUGH THE LISBON TREATY HAS NOT BEEN RATIFIED. THIS IS ANOTHER BLATANTLY ILLEGAL ACT which renders ALL operations of this Stalinist-sounding revolutionary oppression mechanism ILLEGAL in perpetuity.

• It also calls into question the very purpose of the Irish Referendum itself, raising the rhetorical question: what is the point of bothering the Irish electorate with this latest insult to their tranquillity and intelligence, if the EU’s bureaucrats, who are ANSWERABLE TO NOBODY, have been going ahead with provisions of the Lisbon Treaty even though it has not been ratified?

(They have been doing this in many other areas, too).

• Of course, the purpose of the Irish Referendum to get the insulted Irish electorate to change its mind from the verdict that it handed down in the Referendum of June 2008 is purely and simply to provide the intended illegitimate and illegal operations of the EU Collective with a false veneer of ‘legitimacy’, in the knowledge that the lazy and sycophantic so-called ‘mainstream’ media will just cow-tow and go along with these obnoxious illegalities. In so doing, journalists are validating the illegal behaviour of the manipulators that we have identified.

• Under the illegal COSI blueprint (in which, of course, as usual, the treacherous, revolutionary British authorities participated illegally), law enforcement and “public security organizations” will share intelligence, material from Internet surveillance, and other elements of national security arrangements, acquiring powers over the satrap Member States’ police and security services (2).

• A spokesman for the European Civil Liberties Network, Tony Bunyan, summarised the position correctly with the following statement. The COSI arrangements, implemented illegally PRIOR TO RATIFICATION of the Lisbon Treaty, represented a step towards an ‘EU Home Office or Interior Ministry without any democratic control’. Making the mistake of accepting this outrage as a fait accompli, he nevertheless elaborated:

‘It is outrageous that the rôle of the new EU Internal Security Committee has been decided in secret. If COSI becomes a high-level legislative body, a swathe of decision-making and practice will be removed from democratic debate’.

• The Lisbon Treaty WHICH HAS NOT BEEN RATIFIED, provides that: ‘A standing committee shall be set up within the [European] Council in order to ensure that operational co-operation on internal security is promoted and strengthened within the union’.

• ‘Unbelievably’ (but then again, NOT), an unnamed official involved in this treasonous activity said: ‘Sometimes it is better not to spell things out too much in order to keep flexibility and to allow officials the creativity of a blank slate’. Translation from weasel-language into jackboot Nazi-speak:

• 'We require absolute unfettered carte blanche to impose our dictatorship upon the satrap peoples of Europe and we won’t brook any interference with our stolen prerogative to saddle them with a control régime which will ensure our total hegemony, whether they like it or not’.

NOTORIOUS IRISH EUROPHILE HINTS AT THIS WEBSITE
The former Attorney General of Ireland and now Chairman of British Petroleum, a man notorious for his slavish ideological support for the European Union Collective, Peter Sutherland, was reported on 4th October 2009 to have made the following statement as soon as the rigged Irish Referendum outcome had been announced:

‘This is an outstanding victory for common sense. It was the result of dispelling myths, some of which emanated from the United Kingdom. This was a great achievement with a government in some difficulty and a vital step forward for Ireland’.

• However the YES lobby dispensed MYTHS on a prodigious scale, the primary myth being the lie, identified above, that ‘Ireland could be left isolated from the European Single Market’, when in fact the outcome of the Referendum would and could MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.

• Sutherland, who hates the likes of us, hinted that what we say about the European Commission being a criminal enterprise, is false. In that case, Mr Sutherland, we suggest that you should take the matter up (a) with the UK Serious Fraud Office in London [see our reports dated 2nd October and 16th/20th September 2009]; and (b) with the European Court of Auditors in Luxembourg [see our report dated 2nd October 2009].

YES, THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION IS A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE
For, as discussed in our report dated 2nd October, the executive arm of the European Union Collective is a CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE, given that its financial accounts have been specifically DISAPPROVED by the EU’s own Court of Auditors for the past 14 financial years running. For the record, we repeat the information on this subject contained in that report:

• OPEN-ENDED EUROPEAN COMMISSION CORRUPTION:
As previously reported by this service, the accounts of the European Commission have been rejected FOR THE PAST 14 YEARS RUNNING by the European Union's own expert Court of Auditors. This means that the European Commission, which is an illegitimate corporate entity anyway, is a CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE. It must be continually exposed as such.

Further, the UK Serious Fraud Office have specifically CONFIRMED that remittance of taxpayers' funds into the hands of a criminal enterprise IS OF COURSE ITSELF A CRIMINAL OFFENCE.

What is more, our Irish associate, Richard Sharpe, visited the Court of Auditors in Luxembourg recently and obtained SPECIFIC CONFIRMATION from an official there, MR GEZA NOVACS, who told Richard that quote 'the European Accounts have not been signed off ('qualified') for fourteen years or more' unquote.

That is to say, THEY ARE INDEED FRAUDULENT.

Given this state of affairs, the European Commission's accounts CAN NEVER BE RECTIFIED. For that to happen, it would be necessary to go back to the last set of accounts that WAS APPROVED (15 YEARS AGO) and to work through all the detail, identifying the frauds and perpetrators of fraud, initiating proceedings against them, revealing every single theft and misappropriation in Notes to the Accounts, and implementing the necessary accounting adjustments. This operation would take years and of course IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

THEREFORE the European Commission will remain a CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE IN PERPETUITY.

This was all reported in the exposure analysis posted here on 16th/20th September. The relevant text was reappended as Note 1 to the report dated 2nd October [Archive].

•NOTE: We understand that our reiteration of these painful realities is now causing the Eurocracy and the free-wheeling anti-nation state 'Useful Idiot' Europhile community considerable disquiet.

AND WE REPEAT HERE THE UPDATE APPENDED TO THE 2ND OCTOBER REPORT

UPDATE, 4th October 2009:

IRISH LISBON TREATY REFERENDUM 'WAS RIGGED'
Our very informed sources state AS FACT that the Irish Referendum on the Lisbon Treaty has been rigged. The article below, as you may have noticed, was angled so as to seek to persuade voters to see sense. But the nests of serpents with which we are dealing are dense. The European Union and its Commission are criminal enterprises, after all: this insufferable Germanic institution exists for the sole purpose of hijacking and usurping BY STEALTH its satrap 'Member States'' national sovereignty. That is its ENTIRE purpose, as is explained in the Editor's exhaustive European study entitled 'The European Union Collective: Enemy of its Member States' (2002) [available from this website: see Edward Harle Limited Books segment].

It is AN IMMENSE, LONG-RANGE GRADUALIST OPERATION, aided and abetted by traitors inside the European national political and bureaucratic establishments, modelled on Hitler's 'Coup d'etat by installments'. That phrase was originally coined by a German living in the United States, Konrad Heiden, and published in his book 'Der Fuehrer', Boston, 1944, on page 579, cited in 'Thirty Days: Hitler's Thirty Days to Power, January 1933', by the US author, Henry Ashby Turner Jr. [Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc., Reading, MA and New York, 1996].

In a remarkable new study (3), the Regius Professor of Modern History at Cambridge University, Richard J. Evans, explains, amid his horrific and meticulous accounts of the routine atrocities perpetrated by the internally feuding Nazis and their gauleiters (going far, far beyond what the general public holds in its eroding collective memory), that the most conspicuous and perpetual feature of the Nazi regime was: RAMPANT CORRUPTION, PILLAGING, STEALING, GRAFT AND CONVERSION/DIVERSION OF ASSETS: in other words, WHAT WE HAVE BEEN RECORDING.

• Moreover the gauleiters and their associates STOLE FROM AND RANSACKED EACH OTHER.

• Does that sound familiar? Of course it does. THAT'S WHAT THESE NAZIS DO.

And it is this CORRUPTION that has survived to destabilise the whole world in OUR TIME.

BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION MORE EFFICIENT THAN BLITZKRIEG
Because what has happened is that these Nazis, using the big German, Swiss and French banks, and the Vatican, later to be joined by British institutions, found that BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION, which came naturally to them anyway, was a more efficient means of achieving their demented hegemony objectives than military force and Blitzkrieg.

Had the Editor not discovered and experienced this from INSIDE THE SNAKE DEN, we wouldn't have been in a position to expose this behaviour 'from within'. Our unspeakable experience, therefore, was 'meant to happen', so that these exposures could be framed and published in our journal and on this website for the whole world to see and understand.

• The point here being that FRAUD, BRIBERY AND BALLOT-RIGGING go hand in hand with the sick Fraudulent Finance practices proliferated originally by the pan-German FIFTH COLUMN inside the US Intelligence Power, WHICH IS A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE.

SUBVERSION OF EUROPEAN NATIONS, SUBVERSION OF THE UNITED STATES
The 'Coup d'etat by installments' in Europe is the TWIN OPERATION, running in parallel with Nazi subversion of the United States by the same operatives, masterminded by the long-range strategic deception 'Black' Nazi Continuum agency based at Dachau, which operates 'independently' of the German Chancellor. Obviously, Hitler's 'Coup d'etat by installments' was implemented over a much shorter timeframe: BUT THE PRINCIPLE IS THE SAME. The rigged Irish Referendum outcome is just another dirty step towards the imminent smothering of the residual sovereignty of the once great nations of Europe, with Britain ALWAYS seen by the pan-German snakes as the main target.

On page 164 of 'Thirty Days', the author described Hitler's 'Coup d'etat by Installments' as follows:

'Only by banning the Communist deputies and by resorting to intimidation and mendacity did Hitler secure on March 23 the necessary two-thirds vote in the new Reichstag for an Enabling Act that transferred legislative authority to his Cabinet, ostensibly for four years. A wave of Nazi purges followed, as one institution after another was subjugated. Arbitrary rule replaced government by law in what has aptly been termed a "Coup d'etat by installments"'.

'By summer, all parties except the Nazis had been dissolved, Hugenberg had been forced out of the Cabinet and Hitler had relegated Papen to insignificance by winning the trust of the President. Even earlier Goering had wrested from Papen control over the government of the largest state, Prussia. Well before the Nazi leader assumed the powers of the Presidency upon the death of Hindenburg in August 1934, he had become dictator of Germany'.

THIS IS THE MODEL, OPERATING IN GRADUALIST MODE, THAT IS BEING DEPLOYED TO SUBVERT THE RESIDUAL SOVEREIGNTY OF THE STUPID EUROPEAN NATIONS, LED BY TRAITORS AND DESPICABLE DUMKOPFS WITHIN THE NATIONAL STRUCTURES, WHO HAVE CONFUSED COOPERATION WITH SOCIALIST ‘COLLECTIVISATION’ (4).

That the Irish Referendum has been rigged is therefore NO SURPRISE. For we are dealing with ruthless crooks, which is why they are keen on having the British deceiver, intelligence operative and crook, Tony BLIAR, as their first President, to match that disgusting little Portuguese operative, Barroso. Stand by now for consequences similar, in the contemporary context, to those events that followed Hitler's acquisition of GENERAL POWERS from the Legislature by means of INTIMIDATION and MENDACITY, the techniques which, with bribery, have been used to rig the Referendum (5).


Notes and References:

1: The Sunday Telegraph, Business Section, 4th October 2009.

2: The Sunday Telegraph, page 3, 4th October 2009.

3: Richard J. Evans, Regius Professor of Modern History, Cambridge University, 'The Third Reich at War', The Penguin Press, New York, 2009, ISBN 978-1-59420-2006-3.

4: The Editor first understood this when he found himself sitting next to the former British Foreign Secretary, Douglas (Lord) Hurd, on a plane some years ago. Although the Editor carefully avoided confronting Hurd until the end of the flight, he established that Hurd valued British membership of the EU Collective because it fostered ‘cooperation’. However one can cooperate with an external party without getting into bed with them. It was further clear that, wittingly or not, he confused this naïve, mythical ideal of ‘cooperation’ – which suddenly evaporates when the Germans and French want their own way and browbeat all the other EU satrap states in order to get it – with the reality, namely CREEPING COLLECTIVISATION via ever-expanding oppressive regulation which is designed to usurp and destroy national sovereignty – the same objective as Lenin, Stalin and Hitler. So you can appreciate why these ‘Useful Idiots’ (as Lenin called all those who assist the World Revolution without realising what they are doing) are justly called TRAITORS.

5: We are describing and living through components, phases and elements of the ONGOING WORLD REVOLUTION, in case you hadn’t noticed.

• We will revert to the 'usual issues' soon, but, as you will appreciate, these matters are of vital importance and had to be addressed straight away.
“If you strike at,imprison,or kill us,out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you,and perhaps,raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”-James Connolly 1909


DARK HALF-END GAME

Offline jayfromeire

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2009, 04:59:12 am »
A SCAM AT THE HIGHEST ORDER... YOU COULD SEE THE BUILT UP TO IT IN THE DAYS BEFORE THE VOTE

Offline Dig

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2009, 05:07:52 am »
If Hitler stole the election of Poland to declare it a part of Germany rather than bombing her, would it have been any different?

How is the EU not just another form of empire building by psychopathic and genocidal maniacs?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline zeke105

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2009, 05:42:59 am »
How is the EU not just another form of empire building by psychopathic and genocidal maniacs?

Isn't that every government. Hmm, which mafia boss do I want to control me the next four years?

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Offline Brocke

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2009, 06:12:55 am »

It's just like everywhere else today unfortunately.



Vote Misallocation in Ireland - Could the 2nd Lisbon referendum result be manipulated?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUN2ylqGNI&NR=1

During the European Election count in the Ireland North West thousands of votes were discovered to have been misallocated from one candidate (Fiachra Ó Luain) to another (Declan Ganley) during a recheck of a random 10% of the votes. Following over three months of 'investigation' the Garda Siochána (Police) of Co. Mayo failed to gather a single statement other than those given by the candidate in question. In fact the same Garda put in charge of the 'investigation' had been in charge of the election count when the votes orignially went missing. Would you trust these individuals to be in charge of the votes that will decide the future shape of the EU on the Oct 2nd Lisbon Referendum? Please inform the media in all European countries and elsewhere. Something is rotten in the county of Mayo...
If such irregularities could be discovered in 10% of the votes in one Euro constiuency, how many votes could potentially be misallocated in a national ballot?


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Offline Valerius

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2009, 12:31:55 pm »
Is there any Irish press picking this up?
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Offline TheHouseMan

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2009, 12:33:29 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t764ACqXK3M&feature=player_embedded

A complete lack of security. No police. No escorts. No cameras. Nothing. The entire vote was rigged. 100%.

Offline jayfromeire

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2009, 12:44:22 pm »
the Irish press during the campain were just part of the propaganda machine.. so they certainly wont cover it... its up to the truther's to expose the scam

Offline jayfromeire

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2009, 01:04:12 pm »
FROM JULY 09


GARDAI are set to launch an investigation into suspected electoral fraud after revelations about voters registered to an empty house.

It came after the Irish Independent reported last week that seven immigrants were registered to vote at the house which had not been lived in for almost three years.

Their names were added to the supplementary voting list in Monaghan just days before the deadline expired -- and the county council did not have the staff to check them.

Monaghan County Council subsequently launched its own investigation and its returning officer Paul Clifford confirmed yesterday he had now referred the issue of late voter registrations to the gardai.

"I have referred a query in relation to the inclusion of applicants to the supplement to the Register of Electors, to An Garda Siochana, to investigate whether offences were committed contrary to the 1992 Electoral Act or the 1995 Electoral Regulations," he said.

It is an offence under the electoral acts for a person to give false information in order to vote.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-to-investigate-suspected-vote-fraud-1803847.html

Offline Outer Haven

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2009, 02:06:10 pm »
If Hitler stole the election of Poland to declare it a part of Germany rather than bombing her, would it have been any different?

How is the EU not just another form of empire building by psychopathic and genocidal maniacs?
It is, yet, sadly, here in Poland, a lot of people are unable to see it... You dare to question the EU and you'll get called "racist", "xenophobe", "antisemite", "nazi" and all the rest of it...  ::)
"If this is the only way, we have no choice but to proceed. What is there to vacillate about?"

Offline Dig

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2009, 04:21:10 pm »
FROM JULY 09


GARDAI are set to launch an investigation into suspected electoral fraud after revelations about voters registered to an empty house.

It came after the Irish Independent reported last week that seven immigrants were registered to vote at the house which had not been lived in for almost three years.

Their names were added to the supplementary voting list in Monaghan just days before the deadline expired -- and the county council did not have the staff to check them.

Monaghan County Council subsequently launched its own investigation and its returning officer Paul Clifford confirmed yesterday he had now referred the issue of late voter registrations to the gardai.

"I have referred a query in relation to the inclusion of applicants to the supplement to the Register of Electors, to An Garda Siochana, to investigate whether offences were committed contrary to the 1992 Electoral Act or the 1995 Electoral Regulations," he said.

It is an offence under the electoral acts for a person to give false information in order to vote.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-to-investigate-suspected-vote-fraud-1803847.html

Looks like Acorn has gone international!
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline chris jones

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2009, 04:33:30 pm »
If Hitler stole the election of Poland to declare it a part of Germany rather than bombing her, would it have been any different?

How is the EU not just another form of empire building by psychopathic and genocidal maniacs?

Hi S, Good hit on that one. How very true. I envy your capacity to keep it short and very much to the point. Bless your heart brother.


Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2009, 05:11:58 pm »
There was certainly fraud BUT the majority did vote Yes for The Lisbon Treaty, for many reasons, mainly fear.
My best guesstimate is that the real result was 51% Yes > 49% No.
However, in reality this was a false choice, a dialetic of opposites, which has yet again revealed deep & bitter fissures in Irish society, typical of any post-colonial situation.
The reality is dawning on many in Ireland that we have enterered a new Roman Empire, in which Ireland, Europes oldest nation, will be little more than a province, topped by a corrupt & venal elite.
This situation is repulsive to anyone of good conscience, but especially, Irish Republicans.
Nonetheless, this is just another chapter in the ancient struggle & we will drive this empire, their minions & sycophants, into the sea.

Offline TheCaliKid

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2009, 05:31:05 pm »
There was certainly fraud BUT the majority did vote Yes for The Lisbon Treaty, for many reasons, mainly fear.
My best guesstimate is that the real result was 51% Yes > 49% No.
However, in reality this was a false choice, a dialetic of opposites, which has yet again revealed deep & bitter fissures in Irish society, typical of any post-colonial situation.
The reality is dawning on many in Ireland that we have enterered a new Roman Empire, in which Ireland, Europes oldest nation, will be little more than a province, topped by a corrupt & venal elite.
This situation is repulsive to anyone of good conscience, but especially, Irish Republicans.
Nonetheless, this is just another chapter in the ancient struggle & we will drive this empire, their minions & sycophants, into the sea.

Oh to return to the days of an Irish volunteerist society!  

BTW, what were the 'official" numbers?
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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2009, 05:43:09 pm »
Oh to return to the days of an Irish volunteerist society!  

BTW, what were the 'official" numbers?


Sadly those days are long gone,people have become too apathetic,selfish and forgetful of what and how this country came to be,the sacrifices that were made and people that died so we could have freedom.
“If you strike at,imprison,or kill us,out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you,and perhaps,raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”-James Connolly 1909


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Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2009, 05:50:13 pm »
Oh to return to the days of an Irish volunteerist society!  

BTW, what were the 'official" numbers?

60% > 40%, a turnaround of 12% !!
Impossible.

Offline TheCaliKid

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2009, 05:52:10 pm »
60% > 40%, a turnaround of 12% !!
Impossible.


Holy sh*t! Are you kidding me!?!? That's such BS! 

There's just no way. What was the vote last year?

Also, who decided to vote on it again? Doesn't NO mean NO? (at least a few years, ffs)
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Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2009, 05:52:48 pm »

Sadly those days are long gone,people have become too apathetic,selfish and forgetful of what and how this country came to be,the sacrifices that were made and people that died so we could have freedom.

Yes they have, but I'm not that pessimistic.
I see a lot of young people are getting very angry.
The task is to get people organising again, myself included, in the 'real' world, not just online.

Offline Freeski

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2009, 06:01:04 pm »
I guess it comes down to who counted the votes...
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2009, 06:19:42 pm »
Yes they have, but I'm not that pessimistic.
I see a lot of young people are getting very angry.
The task is to get people organising again, myself included, in the 'real' world, not just online.


I am that pessimistic but thats just because I am still sulking over the result,I am also feeling bad for myself and all the people that got involved to get the message out to people.Go over to Politics.ie and see what some of them are saying over there,looking forward to a NWO,pleased that Tony Blair is even been considered for the post of EU President,people calling Fianna Fail a brave party.

The spirit of 1916 is dead in this country,when it was needed more than ever,a very sad day for this country indeed.
“If you strike at,imprison,or kill us,out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you,and perhaps,raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”-James Connolly 1909


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Offline Freeski

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2009, 06:32:11 pm »

I am that pessimistic but thats just because I am still sulking over the result,I am also feeling bad for myself and all the people that got involved to get the message out to people.Go over to Politics.ie and see what some of them are saying over there,looking forward to a NWO,pleased that Tony Blair is even been considered for the post of EU President,people calling Fianna Fail a brave party.

The spirit of 1916 is dead in this country,when it was needed more than ever,a very sad day for this country indeed.

Hey man, keep spreading the good word. We will never give up our freedom! 8)
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2009, 06:37:54 pm »

I am that pessimistic but thats just because I am still sulking over the result,I am also feeling bad for myself and all the people that got involved to get the message out to people.Go over to Politics.ie and see what some of them are saying over there,looking forward to a NWO,pleased that Tony Blair is even been considered for the post of EU President,people calling Fianna Fail a brave party.

The spirit of 1916 is dead in this country,when it was needed more than ever,a very sad day for this country indeed.

Yes, well, what the EU offers 'those' people is the 'security' of serfdom.
You & I know that it's always harder to be a freeman or woman, it takes responsibility, strength, intelligence, honour & the willingness to lay down your life for your country.
I would agree that the spirit of 1916 is not exactly thriving in the populace at present, but then, neither was it in 1916, at least at the beginning.
There are lots of battles ahead & once the ideology of Irish Republicanism catches peoples minds again, then the spirit will follow, always does.

Offline Freeski

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2009, 06:57:41 pm »
Yes, well, what the EU offers 'those' people is the 'security' of serfdom.
You & I know that it's always harder to be a freeman or woman, it takes responsibility, strength, intelligence, honour & the willingness to lay down your life for your country.
I would agree that the spirit of 1916 is not exactly thriving in the populace at present, but then, neither was it in 1916, at least at the beginning.
There are lots of battles ahead & once the ideology of Irish Republicanism catches peoples minds again, then the spirit will follow, always does.


We just have to keep teaching about freedom.
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2009, 07:03:33 pm »
We just have to keep teaching about freedom.

Yes, & also teaching/learning ourselves.
I know this, for sure - the people in Ireland will soon learn that being in the EU, is the cause of this current depression, once they realise that, Republicans will act, decisively.

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2009, 07:09:13 pm »
Yes, well, what the EU offers 'those' people is the 'security' of serfdom.
You & I know that it's always harder to be a freeman or woman, it takes responsibility, strength, intelligence, honour & the willingness to lay down your life for your country.
I would agree that the spirit of 1916 is not exactly thriving in the populace at present, but then, neither was it in 1916, at least at the beginning.
There are lots of battles ahead & once the ideology of Irish Republicanism catches peoples minds again, then the spirit will follow, always does.


You are right,security was the key to turning people to the dark side(sic)especially when there isn't much security around at the moment,fear won out in the end.I some sense I don't blame people for that because to go from having it all to having nothing in such a short period of time is a shock to the system,luckily I was in the minority that could see it coming and was laughed at when I tried to tell people,remember Bertie 2 years back saying that anybody that said we were heading for recession should commit suicide. Now its all Lehman Brothers fault and we didn't see it coming.

There are lots of battles ahead,and believe me I haven't given up,but it just depends which ideology of Irish Republicanism you are referring to ??? just assuming from your user name are you using it in its literal sense or the adopted sense ??? because as it stands there is nobody in a group sense that supports true Irish Republicanism,just individuals.

I hope I don't come across as being accusing or anything ??? but its just what is represented at this time as true Irish Republicanism is not what I would consider as true Irish Republicanism,and to be honest it pisses me off that it is being used in such a way.   
“If you strike at,imprison,or kill us,out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you,and perhaps,raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”-James Connolly 1909


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Offline Freeski

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2009, 07:13:21 pm »
Both life AND freedom come with risk. So be it!
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2009, 07:20:45 pm »


There are lots of battles ahead,and believe me I haven't given up,but it just depends which ideology of Irish Republicanism you are referring to ???

The United Ireland, ideology of Irish Republicanism.
I'm a true believer there, always have been.

Quote
just assuming from your user name are you using it in its literal sense or the adopted sense ???

In it's literal sense.
It's been 'adopted' by many & varied groups, some with questionable motives.
Quote
because as it stands there is nobody in a group sense that supports true Irish Republicanism,just individuals.

I would'nt be so sure about that, but then I'm speaking individually, at present.

Quote
I hope I don't come across as being accusing or anything ??? but its just what is represented at this time as true Irish Republicanism is not what I would consider as true Irish Republicanism,and to be honest it pisses me off that it is being used in such a way.   

So what would you consider to be 'true' Irish Republicanism?

Offline Sub-X

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2009, 07:46:15 pm »
I believe in true Irish Republicanism as set out in the Proclamation and Irish Constitution(the correctly translated version),I too believe in a United Ireland but only on the grounds of majority support across the whole province of Ulster,it would have to be agree upon by both sections of the communities,not just being told thats the way its going to have to be. 

To be completely honest and blunt about it,Sinn Fein have sullied the identity of true Irish Republicanism(sure this could be said about the other parties too)but Sinn Fein have proclaimed themselves the true champions of Irish Republicanism and that sickens me because they have used Irish Republicanism to mask the criminal elements and activities and quite frankly pissed upon the foundations on which it was built,this is what I mean there is no group as such that support true Irish Republicanisms.

The Northern Bank job was bad enough,but the murder of 3 Irish citizens after the peace process was proclaimed by so called freedom fighters,the cover up by Sinn Fein and the Irish government for the betterment of peace basically showed Sinn Fein for what they really had become,nothing but a bunch of criminals.   


On a side note I meant to post this site a couple of weeks back and forgot,a bunch of guys I met at one of the NAMA marches http://freemanireland.ning.com/,their Freeman guide is brilliant,well worth downloading.
“If you strike at,imprison,or kill us,out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you,and perhaps,raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”-James Connolly 1909


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Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2009, 09:39:00 pm »
I believe in true Irish Republicanism as set out in the Proclamation and Irish Constitution(the correctly translated version),I too believe in a United Ireland but only on the grounds of majority support across the whole province of Ulster

Would that include the counties of Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan?
Your position, whether you know it or not, is Southern Unionist.

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it would have to be agree upon by both sections of the communities,not just being told thats the way its going to have to be.  

Southern Unionist.

Quote
To be completely honest and blunt about it,Sinn Fein have sullied the identity of true Irish Republicanism(sure this could be said about the other parties too)but Sinn Fein have proclaimed themselves the true champions of Irish Republicanism and that sickens me because they have used Irish Republicanism to mask the criminal elements and activities and quite frankly pissed upon the foundations on which it was built,this is what I mean there is no group as such that support true Irish Republicanisms.

I don't speak for Sinn Fein.
I do know that criminals are opportunists & in any conflict situation, will expolit it for thier own personal gain. Same happed with the PLO.
I also know that MI5/6 infiltration carried out criminal acts to 'piss' upon the reputation of Irish Republicanism.
Why do you not mention this?

Quote
The Northern Bank job was bad enough,but the murder of 3 Irish citizens after the peace process was proclaimed by so called freedom fighters,the cover up by Sinn Fein and the Irish government for the betterment of peace basically showed Sinn Fein for what they really had become,nothing but a bunch of criminals.  

Northern Bank Job was carried out by who? & how do you know?

Frankly, I lived through the troubles, I doubt you did.





Offline Sub-X

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2009, 03:46:24 pm »
Would that include the counties of Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan?
Your position, whether you know it or not, is Southern Unionist.

Southern Unionist.

I don't speak for Sinn Fein.
I do know that criminals are opportunists & in any conflict situation, will expolit it for thier own personal gain. Same happed with the PLO.
I also know that MI5/6 infiltration carried out criminal acts to 'piss' upon the reputation of Irish Republicanism.
Why do you not mention this?

Northern Bank Job was carried out by who? & how do you know?

Frankly, I lived through the troubles, I doubt you did.


So you don't speak for Sinn Fein,you speak for the IRA,or at least you are trying to be an apologist for them,funny you don't mention Robert McCartney,,murdered by a member of the IRA in a pub brawl,so called decent republicans closed ranks and intimidated his sisters,what a wonderful view of True Irish Republicanism that is,nothing to do with MI5,just a bunch of criminal scum.

How about all the protection rackets and taking money off drug dealers that your true republicans are doing,exploiting the situation is it ??? indeed to line their own pockets,they are criminals that insult the memory of REAL IRISH REPUBLICANS,an insult to the people of this country,who died for this country. 

Southern Unionist  :D don't make me laugh you clown,heres a news flash for you some northern republicans(like yourself it would seem) are just as small minded and bigoted as their Loyalist neighbors,just let that sink a little there.Truth is a bitch.Luckily the sensible people on this island are in the majority.

So I'm a southern unionist because I believe that if one more life is to be lost in to gain a United Ireland then its not worth it.Your idea of True Irish Republicanism is a bunch of shite,and it is people like you that give the rest of us a bad name,that is why you are in the minority,95% of the country were against violence,so are they all southern unionists too ??? Your sad attempt of a veiled insult was well,sad  ::)

Open your eyes,violence solves nothing,you should know that better than most,all it does is leave broken hearts and broken families,and in the end still does not achieve what it set out to do,Ireland is no more United than it was 30 years ago,apart from one very important fact 95% of the whole country are against violence,as much as you deluded "Republicans"  ::) think.

So f**k Sinn Fein

f**k the IRA

f**k your warped,f**ked up idea of what you think TRUE IRISH REPUBLICANISM is....because you are wrong,the armed struggle is over,people want peace,so go read head down to the Armalite and Ballotbox bar there  :D ,get yourself an An Phoblacht and dream of a United Ireland in the new soon to be United Europe  ::)
“If you strike at,imprison,or kill us,out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you,and perhaps,raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”-James Connolly 1909


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Offline Tiocfaidh-ár-lá

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2009, 04:52:00 pm »

So you don't speak for Sinn Fein,you speak for the IRA,or at least you are trying to be an apologist for them

I'm speaking as an individual, plain & simple.
It's not my place to apologise for the IRA &, despite your lack of empathy with them, at least thay had a pair of balls & fought the third most poweful army in the world to a standstill. More than you, & your ilk, will ever do in your life.

Quote
,funny you don't mention Robert McCartney,,murdered by a member of the IRA in a pub brawl,so called decent republicans closed ranks and intimidated his sisters,what a wonderful view of True Irish Republicanism that is,nothing to do with MI5,just a bunch of criminal scum.

You are correct in saying thats nothing to do with MI5 & it was a criminal act, no excuse for it.

Quote
How about all the protection rackets and taking money off drug dealers that your true republicans are doing,exploiting the situation is it ??? indeed to line their own pockets,they are criminals that insult the memory of REAL IRISH REPUBLICANS,an insult to the people of this country,who died for this country. 

If you have evidence of IRA involvement in drug dealing, why not take yourself down to your local Garda station, or, better still become a grass!

Quote
Southern Unionist  :D don't make me laugh you clown,heres a news flash for you some northern republicans(like yourself it would seem) are just as small minded and bigoted as their Loyalist neighbors,just let that sink a little there.Truth is a bitch.Luckily the sensible people on this island are in the majority.

Actually, I'll withdraw 'Southern Unionist' & replace it with 'Southern Partitionist', since you clearly are not aware of the counties of Ulster when you claimed that without the majority of the people in Ulster there could be no re-unification with the rest of Ireland.

Quote
So I'm a southern unionist because I believe that if one more life is to be lost in to gain a United Ireland then its not worth it.Your idea of True Irish Republicanism is a bunch of shite,and it is people like you that give the rest of us a bad name,that is why you are in the minority,95% of the country were against violence,so are they all southern unionists too ??? Your sad attempt of a veiled insult was well,sad  ::)

You are of course forgetting the crimes of partitioning the country in the first instance & the pogroms against the Catholic minority in N.Ireland. IRA violence was a rection to the violence of the British State & Loyalism. No mention of that though, you little wimp.

Quote
Open your eyes,violence solves nothing,you should know that better than most,all it does is leave broken hearts and broken families,and in the end still does not achieve what it set out to do,Ireland is no more United than it was 30 years ago,apart from one very important fact 95% of the whole country are against violence,as much as you deluded "Republicans"  ::) think.

No one chooses violence unless they have no other choice &, yes, I know that better than you, sonny.

Quote
So f**k Sinn Fein

f**k the IRA

f**k your warped,f**ked up idea of what you think TRUE IRISH REPUBLICANISM is....because you are wrong,the armed struggle is over,people want peace,so go read head down to the Armalite and Ballotbox bar there  :D ,get yourself an An Phoblacht and dream of a United Ireland in the new soon to be United Europe  ::)

Now, you go on my ignore list.
But before I depart - here's a wee project for you - go write 'The Pot-Heads Guide to Irish Republicanism, Dude'.
I'm sure your American fans will love it.
Your a typical petit-borgeoise, internet revolutionary. You would'nt know street politics if you cracked your little nose on it.
F*ck you!

Offline Sub-X

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2009, 05:51:42 pm »
I'm speaking as an individual, plain & simple.
It's not my place to apologise for the IRA &, despite your lack of empathy with them, at least thay had a pair of balls & fought the third most poweful army in the world to a standstill. More than you, & your ilk, will ever do in your life.

You are correct in saying thats nothing to do with MI5 & it was a criminal act, no excuse for it.

If you have evidence of IRA involvement in drug dealing, why not take yourself down to your local Garda station, or, better still become a grass!

Actually, I'll withdraw 'Southern Unionist' & replace it with 'Southern Partitionist', since you clearly are not aware of the counties of Ulster when you claimed that without the majority of the people in Ulster there could be no re-unification with the rest of Ireland.

You are of course forgetting the crimes of partitioning the country in the first instance & the pogroms against the Catholic minority in N.Ireland. IRA violence was a rection to the violence of the British State & Loyalism. No mention of that though, you little wimp.

No one chooses violence unless they have no other choice &, yes, I know that better than you, sonny.

Now, you go on my ignore list.
But before I depart - here's a wee project for you - go write 'The Pot-Heads Guide to Irish Republicanism, Dude'.
I'm sure your American fans will love it.
Your a typical petit-borgeoise, internet revolutionary. You would'nt know street politics if you cracked your little nose on it.
F*ck you!


Yeah you seem to mix history with the present to justify your crap,I am not talking about the true brave acts or patriots that died in the name of freedom,see that is the whole point of my post,you use that like a badge on honor to justify murder and bigotry in the present day.

Become a grass  :D I have said they were involved in drug dealing they are taking money of drug dealers,but again thats justified criminals taking money from other criminals,you know its the truth but you can't admit it,because then you have to admit its criminality.My grandfather fought with the TRUE IRA,you support a crowd that pisses on the memory of those patriots,bunch of f**king cowards,living off the memory of true,brave Irish patriots,so don't be giving me your "Your a typical petit-borgeoise, internet revolutionary"  BS :D Don't try and patronize me either,sonny,my ilk  ::)

If you have evidence of IRA involvement in drug dealing, why not take yourself down to your local Garda station, or, better still become a grass!

I laughed hard at this  :D ,eh I think going to the Gardai would be considered as grassing you feckin eejit  ::) all I was pointing out was how you were getting up on your moral high horse and pointed out that these scum use true Irish Republicanism as a veil for their criminality.

I don't blame you man at all,its not your fault your a bigot,its was bred into you,I understand that because it was the same for me,but unlike you my friend I seen past the bullshit,the 30 year struggle achieved nothing but over 3000 lives lost,Ireland is not United and it looks like it may never be.Like it or not there are other people in Ulster than Republicans,so what do you propose ??? force them into a United Ireland,and let the whole mess thing kick off again  ??? or pack them off across the water,telling them if they want to be British go live there then ???

I do enjoy the fact that you need to label,pigeon hole people,I am this and now I am that  ::) I am me,an Irish citizen who loves my country,you can't pigeon hole me as much as you would like,so you can try all you like but your wasting your time  ;)

Oh btw I don't know if there is an ignore function,I wouldn't know because I never felt the need to censorship anybody because they disagreed with me or I with them,your just another person that says they want freedom while trying to stifle others  :D 

I wont ask to write anything,just something very simple,look up the word FREEDOM,you will be glad of it  ;) 

One last time :ONE MORE DEATH FOR UNITED IRELAND ISN'T WORTH THE CRAP  ;)
“If you strike at,imprison,or kill us,out of our prisons or graves we will still evoke a spirit that will thwart you,and perhaps,raise a force that will destroy you! We defy you! Do your worst!”-James Connolly 1909


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Offline Republic Renewal

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2009, 10:52:26 pm »
Not surprised... keep a watch on it.
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Offline SoP

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2009, 03:15:25 pm »
There was NO WAY this time round it wouldn't be a yes vote! The previous No was humiliating enough and forced the elite to show quite how much contempt they have for true democracy. There are of course many how are willfully seeking to impose a NWO on us all. But I find it almost more sad that there are also many who truly believe that common people have to be told what is good for them and that their rejections are based on irrational and inferior instincts which are unfounded. Many of these are politicians or work in the intelligence communities and believe they are serving their countries.

So in this case the No vote was based on misinformation and misunderstanding or just fear mongering. The Yes vote was achieved after people were better informed. The possibility that it is them who are being misguided doesn't enter the minds of such people and anyone who fears the EU or opposes it is backward and stupid. I have a friend like this myself. He is an intelligent and generally very likable chap but if you say something which doesn't conform with his view of the world, it will not register as possible.

Offline Freeski

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2009, 12:12:16 am »
There was NO WAY this time round it wouldn't be a yes vote! The previous No was humiliating enough and forced the elite to show quite how much contempt they have for true democracy. There are of course many how are willfully seeking to impose a NWO on us all. But I find it almost more sad that there are also many who truly believe that common people have to be told what is good for them and that their rejections are based on irrational and inferior instincts which are unfounded. Many of these are politicians or work in the intelligence communities and believe they are serving their countries.

So in this case the No vote was based on misinformation and misunderstanding or just fear mongering. The Yes vote was achieved after people were better informed. The possibility that it is them who are being misguided doesn't enter the minds of such people and anyone who fears the EU or opposes it is backward and stupid. I have a friend like this myself. He is an intelligent and generally very likable chap but if you say something which doesn't conform with his view of the world, it will not register as possible.

So how do you define "true democracy"?
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Republic Renewal

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Re: THE IRISH REFERENDUM ELECTORAL FRAUD
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2009, 12:04:56 am »
The greek words that form "democracy" mean "people" and "rule". Rule by the People.
It most certainly does not mean Rule by Majority Vote. In fact, the Founders of the US despised majority rule. They called it The Tyranny of the Majority, and pointed out repeatedly that it would be the destruction of any civilization that adopted it.The only reason majority rule and democracy became associated is that it's the most obvious way to make organized voting airtight while still keeping it convenient. Getting people to vote unanimously is very difficult, almost impossible with any real number of people, but at least there's no doubt that everyone agrees.

Getting one person to vote for something is easy, but someone is going to point out that it's possible more people are against it than for it.

The problem is that, while 51% of the people voted for something, they're still able to force the other 49% to comply. For a government to force people to do something(other than to keep them from forcing other people) is tyranny. That's why majority rule is the Tyranny of the Majority. The whites can vote that the blacks all should be treated like crap, and their word is law, all nice and "democratic". Hitler was elected with a greater vote than Clinton was. That's "democracy in action"...because we think of majority rule as democracy.

But Rule by the People...democracy...doesn't need to be Majority Rule. In fact, I don't think it can be majority rule, because 49% of the people get left out, even on decisions that are really only about what makes them happy. In fact, eventually everyone gets left out (except the people in the government who execute the "voted laws"), because you are always going to be the one who got shafted with the minority on some vote.

The Founders tried to stop this by making a "republic", where the majority are only allowed to vote on a few things, mostly only things that affect everyone as a group...and then they only get to vote for people elite enough to be allowed to actually make the decisions...the voters don't get to make the decisions themselves. oOUR COUNTRY IS A REPUBLIC DEMOCRACY CREATES FASCISM!  WELL< I GUESS WERE A DICTATORSHIP NOW AREN"T WE?

Obvious: "elite rulers actually make the decisions". So much for Rule by the People. Of course the best of the original Founders, like Jefferson, Washington, and Thomas Paine were so concerned with this that they were completely against the idea of a two party system. The US was originally meant to have either no parties, or at the very worst, a great many parties. Sort of like every "democracy" in the world today except the US. There is, of course, a limited choice if you are picking decision-makers. You might have to decide on someone who disagrees with you on something very important, in order to get someone who agrees with you on the most important thing. In a TWO party system, in fact, you may very well have to pick someone with whom you strongly disagree on almost HALF of what is important to you, as the other one disagrees on OVER half.

What you end up with is almost no say whatsoever, and some bozo claiming to have a "mandate" to do something that you never wanted in the first place, because you had to vote for him versus some other guy as packages, not on their actual issues.

Tricky: It's funny how this government, despite all of its "checks and balances", seems to have forgotten the part about only being able to pass laws on a few subjects that effect everyone directly.

Instead, they've been slowly increasing their power, and decreasing the freedom of choice of the people. It sounds perfectly reasonable, when they tell you about it. No, seriously, it does. If you've accepted that they need to do a tiny bit, just to save babies from being raped and killed, and they defined a specific limit, and a baby gets raped or killed JUST past that limit, then you'll understand why they should have "common sense" powers to go just a tiny bit over the limit, if they think it'll help. And of course "common sense" slowly becomes more, but not fast enough for you to feel a change. A tiny bit more for the children always sounds reasonable. But think about a tiny bit more, for two hundred years...this is another problem with this Republic...a sneaky one. A "slippery slope" that looks perfectly level to the naked eye.

Hey, a nifty allegory!
An old saying...you can't cook a frog by tossing him into a pot of boiling water. His legs are strong and reflexes fast enough that he'll jump right back out every time, those big webbed feet serving to push him off the water and out of the pot.

So what you do is put him in a pot of cool water. Not only will he not jump out, he'll probably be thrilled at the new, safe place.

Then you turn on the fire under the pot, nice and low. You heat the water up slowly, and the frog will always sorta be used to it, and never actually get around to jumping out, until it's too late.

Now, I'm not from the deep south, or France, so I wouldn't eat frogs' legs if you begged me, much less actually try to throw a live frog in a pot, but it still makes sense to me...


The Solution: True Democracy
OK, so Majority rule isn't really democracy. And if it were, then democracy would be a bad thing, so it's a good thing it's not. But what is true democracy?
It's when the People of the society rule themselves; each person deciding what he believes is the path to his own happiness. You decide whether people can cuss in your house, not Big Brotherment, not a vote of 51% of the people who decided that you're wrong about it.

Each other person decides for themselves as well.

Each day, you decide...you VOTE through your decisions...on everything that's important to you. And you don't get over-ruled, even if 51% of the people happen to disagree.

Should we vote on whether people should eat chunky or smooth peanut butter, and a law be passed or government standard determine that it must all be alike? Or do we, even the ones in the minority, get to choose our own peanut butter, so that if there are even a few people who agree with you, you get your own way, and yet so do the people who disagree.

The progress of the society, then, is conducted through the fastest, most efficient "vote" imagined so far. This is truly rule by the people.

Nosce te Ipsum

Know Thyself