Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]

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Offline JimmyJoeBob

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Not sure where to put this, I think this is probably the best place, so here we go.

As I'm sure many of you know, there's an "Alice In Wonderland" movie being made, here's the preview:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/85149/movie-trailers-alice-in-wonderland

How far down does the rabbit hole really go?

Offline Unintelligable Name

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 10:59:47 pm »
there's an "Alice In Wonderland" movie being made

Relevance?

Offline JimmyJoeBob

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 11:01:33 pm »
Relevance?

Well, I was under the impression that Alice In Wonderland was one of those books that sorta talked about the NWO, kinda like The Wizard Of Oz, The Matrix, ect..

Offline Unintelligable Name

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 11:06:35 pm »
Well, I was under the impression that Alice In Wonderland was one of those books that sorta talked about the NWO, kinda like The Wizard Of Oz, The Matrix, ect..

The Matrix isn't about the NWO, unless you make it about that in your own mind. It's a Gnostic movie, about metaphysics and mumbo jumbo.
The Wizard of Oz... uhh it's one man pretending to have magical powers.
Alice In Wonderland I watched.... 15 years ago? No idea if it is NWO related or not but I doubt it.

What impression do you have?

Offline JimmyJoeBob

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 11:12:10 pm »
The Matrix isn't about the NWO, unless you make it about that in your own mind. It's a Gnostic movie, about metaphysics and mumbo jumbo.
The Wizard of Oz... uhh it's one man pretending to have magical powers.
Alice In Wonderland I watched.... 15 years ago? No idea if it is NWO related or not but I doubt it.

What impression do you have?

Well, the only impression I really have is that it looks like a pretty cool movie, I don't know of the connections that it has with the NWO, just heard that it does and figured you folks might want to check out the preview.

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 11:15:21 pm »
Well, the only impression I really have is that it looks like a pretty cool movie, I don't know of the connections that it has with the NWO, just heard that it does and figured you folks might want to check out the preview.
I'd love to but hula hoop only works in USA.

Offline Unintelligable Name

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 11:15:52 pm »
Well, the only impression I really have is that it looks like a pretty cool movie, I don't know of the connections that it has with the NWO, just heard that it does and figured you folks might want to check out the preview.

 :D K.

@berm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjMkNrX60mA

I think Hollywood has pretty much ran out of new ideas... or people want the same old shit remade...

The reason the Mad Hatter is 'insane' is due to the mercury content of his hats, making them included... that's NWO for you.

"Mercury was used in the process of curing felt used in some hats, it was impossible for hatters to avoid inhaling the mercury fumes given off during the hat making process. Hatters and mill workers often suffered mercury poisoning as residual mercury vapor caused neurological damage including confused speech and distorted vision. It was not unusual then for hatters to appear disturbed or mentally confused; many died early as a result of mercury poisoning."

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2009, 12:02:00 am »
Alice in Wonderland;

Written by Charles Dudgson, was a know pedophile, and suspected of being Jack the Ripper. Was a teacher at Oxford for 36 years, the book was obsessive compulsive affection for Dean Henry Liddell (of the fame of the Greek Lexicon called the Liddell-Scott) adolescent daughter Alice.  The characters are all acquaintances of Carol Lewis his pen name at Oxford. The Mad Hatter was Henry Liddell, there whole sick existences was to undermine the bible. In a way it was about the NWO but not in the way you are imaging, the Liddell-Scott the books the Cecil Rhodes carried with him everywhere and I mean everywhere, talk about a rabbit hole, I don’t know anyone on this forum that would dare or care to go down it.   
One thing also Charles Dudgson was know for was child porn, nothing has changed. 

Also I think, the Wizard of OZ and the Matrix where looks into the New World Order.
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Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline SheikhGuevara

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Offline Unintelligable Name

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2009, 01:08:41 am »
Also I think... .... the Matrix where looks into the New World Order.

Not the intention,

http://www.unomaha.edu/~jrf/gnostic.htm

The symbolism is there within the movie to back up this contention.

However like two people who read the same book, one may find it utterly boring and irrelevant, while the other's life may be forever changed. It is subject media first and foremost, like all symbolism and alegory...

It's about an illusionary world all right, but what it means specifically isn't what we (as truthers) make it out to be.

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2009, 10:07:30 am »
Not the intention,

http://www.unomaha.edu/~jrf/gnostic.htm

The symbolism is there within the movie to back up this contention.

However like two people who read the same book, one may find it utterly boring and irrelevant, while the other's life may be forever changed. It is subject media first and foremost, like all symbolism and alegory...

It's about an illusionary world all right, but what it means specifically isn't what we (as truthers) make it out to be.

You may be right; however it gives glimmers to the ignorant so as they might be awaken. The Gnostic may have their agenda and either unintentional or knowingly they let the cat out of the bag, allegorically that is.  A little of the truth has to be reveled so as to introduce the big lie.
Beside I don’t even think the producer even know entirely what it means specifically. 
Alex even refers to both movies as examples of New World Order ideas and goals.

The Alice in Wonderland was a preamble of what to come; the smallest things can change the direction of all things.

It is all connected and in the end only what stands can stand.
The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline trailhound

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2009, 10:17:31 am »
Alice In Wonderland was a story written to help teach his daughter complicated math concepts. Here are a few examples of the nature of the book.


* In chapter 1, "Down the Rabbit-Hole", in the midst of shrinking, Alice waxes philosophic concerning what final size she will end up as, perhaps "going out altogether, like a candle."; this pondering reflects the concept of a limit.
* In chapter 2, "The Pool of Tears", Alice tries to perform multiplication but produces some odd results: "Let me see: four times five is twelve, and four times six is thirteen, and four times seven is--oh dear! I shall never get to twenty at that rate!". This explores the representation of numbers using different bases and positional numeral systems (4 x 5 = 12 in base 18 notation; 4 x 6 = 13 in base 21 notation. 4 x 7 could be 14 in base 24 notation, following the sequence).
* In chapter 5, "Advice from a Caterpillar", the Pigeon asserts that little girls are some kind of serpent, for both little girls and serpents eat eggs. This general concept of abstraction occurs widely in many fields of science; an example in mathematics of employing this reasoning would be in the substitution of variables.
* In chapter 7, "A Mad Tea-Party", the March Hare and Mad Hatter give several examples in which the semantic value of a sentence A is not the same value of the inverse of A (for example, "Why, you might just as well say that 'I see what I eat' is the same thing as 'I eat what I see'!"); in logic and mathematics, this is discussing an inverse relationship.
* Also in chapter 7, Alice ponders what it means when the changing of seats around the circular table places them back at the beginning. This is an observation of addition on a ring of the integers modulo N.

"Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2
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Offline Unintelligable Name

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2009, 10:42:10 am »
You may be right; however it gives glimmers to the ignorant so as they might be awaken. Alex even refers to both movies as examples of New World Order ideas and goals.

Yes and I agree but my point is a murky one, but essentially the film has nothing directly to do with the New World Order, it's a story about 'awakening,' with religious mumbo jumbo piled ontop of it. Personally I don't call it Anti-NWO, as everyone else does, for that reason... and more. Gnosticism plays into mindset that is frequent in Illuminati related propaganda, No Good or Evil, etc. Aleister Crowley comes to mind. Minor point, but... yeah.

Offline Dig

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Re: Agventures in Wonderland [How to seduce young girls before raping them]
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2009, 11:03:43 am »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Liddell

Dodgson met the Liddell family in 1855. He first befriended Harry, the older brother, and later took both Harry and Ina on several boating trips and picnics to the scenic areas around Oxford. Later, when Harry went to school, Alice and her younger sister Edith joined the party. Dodgson entertained the children by telling them fantastic stories to while away the time. He also used them as subjects for his hobby, photography. It has often been stated that Alice was clearly his favorite subject in these years, but there is very little evidence to suggest that this is so. Dodgson's diaries from 18 April 1858 to 8 May 1862 are missing and may have been destroyed by his heirs.[citation needed]


"Cut pages in diary"

The relationship between the Liddells and Dodgson suffered a sudden break in June 1863. There was no record of why the rift occurred, since the Liddells never openly spoke of it, and the single page in Dodgson's diary recording 27-29 June 1863 (which seems to cover the period in which it began) was missing. Until recently, the only source for what happened on that day had been speculation, and generally centered on the idea that Alice Liddell was, somehow, the cause of the break. It was long suspected that her mother disapproved of Dodgson's interest in her, seeing him as an unfit companion for an 11-year-old girl.

In 1996, Karoline Leach found what became known as the "Cut pages in diary" document[5] — a note allegedly written by Charles Dodgson's niece, Violet Dodgson, summarizing the missing page from 27–29 June 1863, apparently written before she (or her sister Menella) removed the page. The note reads:
"L.C. learns from Mrs. Liddell that he is supposed to be using the children as a means of paying court to the governess — he is also supposed soon to be courting Ina". (Leach, 1999)

This might imply that the break between Dodgson and the Liddell family was caused by concern over alleged gossip linking Dodgson to the family governess and to "Ina" (Alice's older sister, Lorina).

It is uncertain who wrote the note. Leach has said that the handwriting on the front of the document most closely resembles that of either Menella or Violet Dodgson, Dodgson's nieces. However, Morton N. Cohen says, in an article recently published in the Times Literary Supplement,[6] that, in the 1960s, Dodgson's great-nephew Philip Dodgson Jacques told him that Jacques had written the note himself based on conversations he remembered with Dodgson's nieces. Cohen's article offered no evidence to support this, however, and known samples of Jacques' handwriting do not seem to resemble the writing of the note.[7]

After this incident, Dodgson avoided the Liddell home for some six months but eventually returned for a visit in December 1863. However, the former closeness does not seem to have been re-established, and the friendship gradually faded away, possibly because Dodgson was in opposition to Dean Liddell over college politics.[8] Other explanations involving romantic entanglements and broken hearts have also been put forward, but while there is some evidence to suggest these as possibilities, nothing definite is known. John Ruskin states in his autobiography Praeterita that after the rift between Dodgson and the Liddells, the sisters pursued a similar relationship with him.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Re: Agventures in Wonderland [How to seduce young girls before raping them]
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2009, 11:04:56 am »
Photography
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Carroll

In 1856, Dodgson took up the new art form of photography, first under the influence of his uncle Skeffington Lutwidge, and later his Oxford friend Reginald Southey.

He soon excelled at the art and became a well-known gentleman-photographer, and he seems even to have toyed with the idea of making a living out of it in his very early years.[8]

A recent study by Roger Taylor and Edward Wakeling[15] exhaustively lists every surviving print, and Taylor calculates that just over fifty percent of his surviving work depicts young girls, though this may be a highly distorted figure as approximately 60% of his original photographic portfolio is now missing,[16] so any firm conclusions are difficult. Dodgson also made many studies of men, women, male children and landscapes; his subjects also include skeletons, dolls, dogs, statues and paintings, and trees. His studies of nude children were long presumed lost, but six have since surfaced, five of which have been published.
 
Photo of John Everett Millais and his wife Effie Gray with two of their children, signed by Effie (c. 1860)

He also found photography to be a useful entrée into higher social circles. During the most productive part of his career, he made portraits of notable sitters such as John Everett Millais, Ellen Terry, Dante Gabriel Rossetti, Julia Margaret Cameron, Michael Faraday and Alfred, Lord Tennyson.[8]

Dodgson abruptly ceased photography in 1880. Over 24 years, he had completely mastered the medium, set up his own studio on the roof of Tom Quad, and created around 3,000 images. Fewer than 1,000 have survived time and deliberate destruction. His reasons for abandoning photography remain uncertain.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Unintelligable Name

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Re: Agventures in Wonderland [How to seduce young girls before raping them]
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2009, 11:07:42 am »
Yeah, that doesn't look good.

Offline Dig

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Re: Agventures in Wonderland [How to seduce young girls before raping them]
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2009, 11:10:46 am »
CIA MIND CONTROL EXPERIMENTS
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOOK3tocTk

The Mind Control Media Slaveship - MK ULTRA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS92bfajUcw

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Method and Components
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon02.htm
The initial process begins with creating dissociation within the subject, usually occurring from the time of birth to about six years. This is primarily achieved through the use of electroshock (ECT) and is at times performed even when the child is in the mother’s womb. Due to the severe trauma induced through ECT, sexual abuse and other methods, the mind splits off into alternate personalities from the core. Formerly referred to as Multiple Personality Disorder, it is presently recognized as Dissociative Identity Disorder and is the basis for MONARCH programming. Further conditioning of the victim’s mind is enhanced through hypnotism, double-bind coercion, pleasure-pain reversals, food, water, sleep and sensory deprivation, along with various drugs which alter certain cerebral functions.

The next stage is to embed and compress detailed commands or messages within the specified alter. This is achieved through the use of hi-tech headsets, in conjunction with computer-driven generators which emit inaudible sound waves or harmonics that affect the RNA covering of neuron pathways to the subconscious and unconscious mind. "Virtual Reality" optical devices are sometimes used simultaneously with the harmonic generators projecting pulsating colored lights, subliminals and split-screen visuals. High voltage electroshock is then used for memory dissolution.

Programming is updated periodically and reinforced through visual, auditory and written mediums. Some of the first programming themes included the Wizard of Oz and Alice and Wonderland, both heavily saturated with occultic symbolism.

Many of the recent Disney movies and cartoons are used in a two-fold manner:

desensitizing the majority of the population, using subliminals and neuro-linguistic programming

deliberately constructing specific triggers and keys for base programming of highly-impressionable MONARCH children.

A prime example of how subliminal programming works is by looking at the recent Disney cinematic sensation Pochahontas, curiously billed as their "33rd" (highest degree in Scottish Rite Freemasonry) animated movie. In the movie, Grandmother Willow is a mystical 400 year old tree who counsels the motherless Pochahontas to listen to her heart and help her realize all the answers lie within. Grandmother Willow is constantly talking in "double-speak" and using "reversals" (i.e. "Sometimes the right path is not the easiest one"; the esoteric derivative being: the left path [the path that leads to destruction] is the easiest one.

In Illuminati Structured MPD Systems, the willow tree represents the occultic powers of Druidism. The intrinsic imagery of the tree’s branches, leaves and root systems are very significant, as some of the dark spiritual proper ties associated with the Willow Tree Programming are:

(1)   The branches are used to whip victims in rituals for "cleansing" purposes

(2)   A willow tree can endure severe weather disturbances (i.e. storms) and is known for it’s pliability or flexibility. Victims/Survivors of the programming describe the willow’s branches wrapping around them, with no hope of escape

(3)   The deep root system of the willow tree makes the victim/survivor feel as if they are falling deeper and deeper into an abyss while in a hypnotic trance. [12]

Music plays an instrumental role in programming, through combinations of variable tones, rhythms and words. Frightmeister Stephen King’s numerous novels and subsequent movies, are purported by credible sources to be used for such villainous purposes. One of his latest books, Insomnia, features a picture of King with the trigger phrase "WE NEVER SLEEP," (indicative of someone with MPD/ DID) below an all-seeing eye.

A partial list of other mediums used to reinforce base programming are:
Pinnochio
Sleeping Beauty
Snow White
Beauty and the Beast
Aladdin
The Little Mermaid
The Lion King
E. T.
Star Wars
Ghost Busters
Trancers II
Batman
Bewitched
Fantasy Island
Reboot
Tiny Toons
Duck Tails
The Dead Sea Scrolls
The Tall Book of Make Believe

A few movies which depict or portray some aspect of MONARCH programming are Hell raiser 3, Raising Cain, Labyrinth, Telefon, Johnny Mneumonic, Point of No Return, The Lawnmower Man and Closet Land.
 


Programmers and Places

It’s difficult to figure out who the original programmer of this satanic project was, due to the substantial amount of disinformation and cross-contamination propagated by the "powers that be." The two that went by the color-coded name of Dr. Green are a Jewish doctor named Dr. Gruenbaum, who supposedly collaborated with the Nazis during WWII, and Dr. Josef Mengele, whose trademark of cold blooded and calculating brutality has not only scarred the souls of survivors from Auschwitz, but also a countless number of victims throughout the world. Mengele’s direct involvement at the infamous Auschwitz concentration camp was suspiciously downplayed during the Nuremberg Trials, and consequently no intensified effort by the U.S. and it’s allies was directed toward his capture.[13]

As a means to confuse serious investigators as to his whereabouts, U.S. officials would report Mengele being a non-threatening recluse in Paraguay or Brazil, or that he was simply dead (the "Angel of Death" miraculously must have come back to life at least five different times). His unprecedented research, at the expense of thousands of lives, undoubtedly was a significant bonus to U.S. interests. Besides using the pseudonym of Dr. Green, survivors knew him as Vaterchen (daddy), Schoner Josef (beautiful Joseph), David and Fairchild. A gracefully handsome man of slight stature, Mengele would disarm people with his gentle demeanor, while at other times, he would explode into violent rages.[14]

Other characteristics remembered by survivors were the cadence of his shiny black boots as he paced back and forth and his "I-love-you/l-love-you-not" daisy game. When he pulled off the last daisy petal, he would maliciously torture and kill a small child in front of the other child he was programming. Distraught survivors also recalled being thrown naked into cages with monkeys, who were trained to viciously abuse them. Evidently, Mengele enjoyed reducing people to the level of animals. He also would purposely restrain his victims from crying, screaming, or showing any excessive emotion.

Dr. D. Ewen Cameron, also known as Dr. White, was the former head of the Canadian, American and World Psychiatric Associations. Because of Cameron’s extensive experience and credentials, the ClA’s Allen Dulles funneled millions of dollars throughout organizations like the society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, which Cameron ruthlessly presided over. Experimentations were conducted at several locations in Montreal, mostly at McGill University, St Mary’s Hospital and Allan Memorial Institute.

Besides the conventional methods of psychiatric tyranny, such as electroshock drug injections and lobotomies, Cameron conceived the technique of "psychic driving," wherein unsuspecting patients were kept in a drug induced coma for several weeks and administered a regimen of electroshocks, while electronic helmets were strapped to their heads and repetitive auditory messages were transmitted at variable speeds.[15] Many of those exploited were abused children which had been run through the Roman Catholic orphanage system.

Not surprisingly, Dr Cameron has been conveniently left out of most psychiatric journals. This may have been, in fact, largely due to Project MKULTRA being publicly exposed in 1970, through lawsuits filed by Canadian survivors and their families. The CIA and Canadian government settled out of court so as not to be required to officially admit to any wrongdoing.

A former U.S. Army Lt. Col. in the DIA’s psychological Warfare Division, Michael Aquino, is the latest in a line of alleged government-sponsored sadists. Aquino, an eccentric genius obsessed with Nazi pagan rituals, founded the Temple of Set, an offshoot of Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan. Aquino was connected with the Presidio Army Base day care scandal, in which he was accused child molestation. Much to the dismay of the young victims’ parents, all charges were dismissed. Code-named "Malcolm", Aquino was reported to have developed training tapes on how to create a MONARCH slave and worked as a liaison between Government/Military Intelligence and various criminal organizations and occult groups in the distribution of MONARCH slaves.[16]

Heinrich Mueller was another important programmer who went under the code names "Dr. Blue" or "Gog." He apparently has two sons who have carried on the trade. The original "Dr. Black" was apparently Leo Wheeler, the nephew of deceased General Earle G. Wheeler, who was the commander of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs during the Vietnam War. Wheeler’s protégé, E. Hummel is active in the Northwest, along with W. Bowers (from the Rothschild bloodline).

Other alleged master mind manipulators, past and present, are:
Dr. Sydney Gottleib
Lt. Col John Alexander
Richard Dabney Anderson (USN)
Dr. James Monroe
Dr. John Lilly
Lt. Comdr. Thomas Narut
Dr William Jennings Bryan
Dr. Bernard L. Diamond
Dr. Martin T. Orne
Dr. Louis J. West
Dr Robert J. Lifton
Dr. Harris Isbel
Col. Wilson Green

In order to keep MKULTRA from being easily detected, the CIA segmented its subprojects into specialized fields of research and development at universities, prisons, private laboratories and hospitals. Of course, they were rewarded generously with government grants and miscellaneous funding.

The names and locations of some of the major institutions involved in MONARCH programming experimentation were/are:
Cornell
Duke
Princeton
UCLA
University of Rochester
MIT
Georgetown University Hospital
Maimonides Medical Center
St. Elizabeth’s Hospital (Washington D.C.)
Bell Laboratories
Stanford Research Institute
Westinghouse Friendship Laboratories
General Electric
ARCO

Mankind Research Unlimited

The "final product" was/is usually created on military installations and bases, where maximum security is required. Referred to as (re) programming centers or near-death trauma centers, the most heavily identified are:
China Lake Naval Weapons Center
The Presidio
Ft. Dietrick
Ft. Campbell
Ft. Lewis
Ft. Hood
Redstone Arsenal
Offutt AFB
Patrick AFB
McClellan AFB
MacGill AFB
Kirkland AFB
Nellis AFB
Homestead AFB
Grissom AFB
Maxwell AFB
Tinker AFB

Other places recognized as major programming sites are:

Langley Research Center

Los Alamos National Laboratories

Tavistock Institute

areas in or by Mt. Shasta, CA, Lampe, MO and Las Vegas, NV.



Notable Names

One of the first documented cases of a MONARCH secret agent was that of the voluptuous 1940’s model, Candy Jones. The book, The Control of Candy Jones, (Playboy Press) portrays her 12 years of intrigue and suspense as a spy for the CIA. Jones, whose birth name is Jessica Wilcox, apparently fit the physiological profile as to be one of the initial experiments or human guinea pigs under the government’s "scientific" project, MKULTRA.



The most publicized case of MONARCH monomania has surfaced through the book TRANCE Formation of America: The True Life Story of a ClA Slave by Cathy O’Brien. On the back cover it emphatically states,

"Cathy O’Brien is the only vocal and recovered survivor of the Central Intelligence Agency’s MKULTRA Project Monarch mind control operation"

(Read Related Report)

This documented autobiography contains compelling accounts of O’Brien’s years of unrelenting incest and eventual introduction into Project MONARCH by her perverted father. Along with co-author Mark PhiIlips, her rescuer and deprogrammer, Cathy covers an almost unbelievable array of conspiratorial crime: forced prostitution (white slavery) with those in the upper echelons of world politics, covert assignments as a "drug mule" and courier, and the country-western music industry’s relationship with illegal CIA activities.

Paul Bonacci a courageous survivor who endured almost two decades of degradation under Project MONARCH, has disclosed strong corroborating evidence of widescale crimes and corruption from the municipal/state level all the way up to the White House.[17] He has testified about sexually-abused males selected from Boy’s Town in Nebraska and taken to nearby Offut AFB, where he says they were subjected to intense MONARCH programming, directed mainly by Commander Bill Plemmons and former Lt. Col. Michael Aquino.[18] After thoroughly tormenting the young boys into mindless oblivion, they were used (along with girls) for pornography and prostitution with several of the nation’s political and economic power brokers. Bonacci recalled being transported from the Air Force base via cargo planes to McClelland AFB in California. Along with other unfortunate adolescents and teenagers, he was driven to the elite retreat, Bohemian Grove. The perpetrators took full advantage of these innocent victims, committing unthinkable perversions in order to satisfy their deviant lusts. Some victims were apparently murdered, further traumatizing already terrified and broken children.

An insatiable actress of marginal talent (now deceased), a morally-corrupt T.V. evangelist, a heralded former Green Beret officer and a popular country-western singer are a few others likely having succumbed to MONARCH madness. Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan-Sirhan, Charlie Manson, John Hinckley Jr., Mark Chapman, David Koresh, Tim McVeigh and John Salvi are some notable names of infamy, strongly suspected of being pawns who were spawned by MKULTRA.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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Re: Agventures in Wonderland [How to seduce young girls before raping them]
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2009, 11:18:26 am »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabberwocky
"Jabberwocky" is a poem of nonsense verse written by Lewis Carroll, originally featured as a part of his novel Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There (1871). It is considered by many to be one of the greatest nonsense poems written in the English language.[1] The poem is sometimes used in primary schools to teach students about the use of portmanteau and nonsense words in poetry, as well as use of nouns and verbs.[2]



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline trailhound

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Re: Agventures in Wonderland [How to seduce young girls before raping them]
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2009, 11:18:26 am »


 That exposed shoulder and look on the girl's face seems damning. All i could offer in Dodgsons defense would be that young girls often fantasize and fall for their teachers without being goaded.  I remember young girls giggling about their crush for some dude in his 30's in grade school.  I remember fantasizing about my second grade teacher taking her dress off while she was teaching. The thought was much more entertaining  than whatever she was talking about! :D When I thought about her taking that dress off...it was a one piece deal she could have removed in one fluid motion :P    Im just saying that young kids think about sex and feel frilly about it cause i remember.  Im not saying the man is innocent I dont know the facts of the story.  Also I guess I should add perhaps I come from an oversexed generation! But we got nothing on the current crop I bet.  :-* Yikes.

"Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2
At the heart of that Western freedom and democracy is the belief that the individual man, the child of God, is the touchstone of value..." -RFK

Offline Dig

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Re: Agventures in Wonderland [How to seduce young girls before raping them]
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2009, 11:21:10 am »


 That exposed shoulder and look on the girl's face seems damning. All i could offer in Dodgsons defense would be that young girls often fantasize and fall for their teachers without being goaded.  I remember young girls giggling about their crush for some dude in his 30's in grade school.  I remember fantasizing about my second grade teacher taking her dress off while she was teaching. The thought was much more entertaining  than whatever she was talking about! :D When I thought about her taking that dress off...it was a one piece deal she could have removed in one fluid motion :P    Im just saying that young kids think about sex and feel frilly about it cause i remember.  Im not saying the man is innocent I dont know the facts of the story.  Also I guess I should add perhaps I come from an oversexed generation! But we got nothing on the current crop I bet.  :-* Yikes.

This guy did everything in his power to spend as much time as possible with these girls. He ever wrote fricking books about how to distract children via storytelling in order to compromise their credibility and memory about whatever might have actually occured. This is a 2,000 year old technique of mind control for creating assassins, or any other purpose. This is one of the major pilars of mind control work done by the Nazis, Tavistock, and MK Ultra.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline trailhound

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2009, 11:31:33 am »
Sane
Quote
This guy did everything in his power to spend as much time as possible with these girls. He ever wrote fricking books about how to distract children via storytelling in order to compromise their credibility and memory about whatever might have actually occured. This is a 2,000 year old technique of mind control for creating assassins, or any other purpose. This is one of the major pilars of mind control work done by the Nazis, Tavistock, and MK Ultra.

 Might be true, like i said i really havent looked into this story.  All i ever thought about Lewis Carrols books were they were math metaphors. Prior to that I thought he was probably a partaker of exotic plant extracts. :D

"Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2
At the heart of that Western freedom and democracy is the belief that the individual man, the child of God, is the touchstone of value..." -RFK

Offline centexan

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2009, 11:35:17 am »
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bloodlines+illuminati+wonderland&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Bloodlines of the Illuminati mentions Alice in Wonderland.  So do some other writings on MK Ultra and the Monarch Program.  The book was used early on as a programming matrix for trauma-based mind control.  It was probably the earliest such matrix.  After it came The Wizard of Oz.  The mind-controllers constantly refer to Alice in Wonderland and the Wizard of Oz.

http://mail.moment.net/~michael/EyesWideShut.pdf

This thread might belong in the Mind Control section.

Offline trailhound

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2009, 11:50:41 am »
http://mconn.doe.state.la.us/lessonplans.php?task=LP_view&lesson_id=4653&dispPage=1

Primary Subject Area:  English/Language Arts
Grade Level:  7 - 8
Overview:
The poem "Jabberwocky" by Lewis Carroll will be used to introduce poetry and figurative language. Simile, metaphor, apostrophe, hyperbole, irony, paradox, personification, oxymoron, idiom, rhythm, and rhyme will be defined and discussed. A math tie-in will be addressed using the riddle "As I was going to St. Ives" and the prefixes used for poetry scansion terms.
Approximate Duration:  1 block class or 2(50 min.) classes and 1 (30 min.
Content Standards:

    * Standard 1
           Students read, comprehend, and respond to a range of materials, using a variety of strategies for different purposes.
    * Standard 4
           Students demonstrate competence in speaking and listening as tools for learning and communicating.
    * Standard 5
           Students locate, select, and synthesize information from a variety of texts, media, references, and technological sources to acquire and communicate knowledge.
    * Standard 6
           Students read, analyze, and respond to literature as a record of life experiences.
    * Standard 7
           Students apply reasoning and problem solving skills to reading, writing, speaking, listening, viewing, and visually representing.

Benchmarks:

    * ELA-1-M2
           analyzing literary devices (e.g., figurative language, flashback, foreshadowing, dialogue) and story elements (e.g., setting, plot, character, theme, mood) within a selection;
    * (1,4)ELA-4-M6
           participating in a variety of roles in group discussions (e.g., active listener, contributor, discussion leader, facilitator, recorder).
    * (1,4,5)ELA-6-M2
           identifying, comparing, and responding to a variety of classic and contemporary literature from many genres (e.g., folktales, legends, myths, biography, autobiography, poetry, fiction, nonfiction, novels, drama);
    * (1,2,4,5)ELA-6-M3
           classifying various genres according to their unique characteristics.
    * (1,2,4,5)ELA-7-M1
           using comprehension strategies (e.g., sequencing, predicting, drawing conclusions, comparing and contrasting, making inferences, determining main ideas, summarizing, recognizing literary devices, paraphrasing) in contexts;
    * (1,2,4)ELA-7-M3
           analyzing the effects of an author's purpose and point of view;
      (1,2,4)

Grade-Level Expectations (GLEs):

    * Grade 7

      3. Interpret literary devices, including:

      ·    symbolism

      ·    puns

      ·    analogies (ELA-1-M2)

      8. Use knowledge of the distinctive characteristics to classify and interpret elements of various genres, including:

      ·    fiction (e.g., science fiction/fantasy)

      ·    nonfiction (e.g., essays, letters)

      ·    poetry (e.g., lyric, narrative)

      ·    drama (e.g., short plays) (ELA-6-M3)

      12. Explain the effects of an author’s stated purpose for writing (ELA-7-M3)

      38. Participate in group and panel discussions, including:

      ·    explaining the effectiveness and dynamics of group process

      ·    applying agreed-upon rules for formal and informal discussions

      ·    assuming a variety of roles (e.g., facilitator, recorder, leader, listener) (ELA-4-M6)
    * Grade 8

      3. Interpret literary devices, including:

      ·    allusions

      ·    understatement (meiosis)

      ·    how word choice and images appeal to the senses and suggest mood and tone

      ·    the use of foreshadowing and flashback to direct plot development

      ·    the effects of hyperbole and symbolism (ELA-1-M2)

      8. Use knowledge of the distinctive characteristics to classify and explain then significance of various genres, including:

      ·    fiction (e.g., mystery, novel)

      ·    nonfiction (e.g., workplace documents, editorials)

      ·    poetry (e.g., lyric, narrative)

      ·    drama (e.g., plays) (ELA-6-M3)

      12. Evaluate the effectiveness of an author’s purpose (ELA-7-M3)

      38. Participate in group and panel discussions, including:

      ·    explaining the effectiveness and dynamics of group process

      ·    applying agreed-upon rules for formal and informal discussions

      ·    assuming a variety of roles (e.g., facilitator, recorder, leader, listener) (ELA-4-M6)

Interdisciplinary Connections: 

    * Mathematics : Patterns, Relations, and Functions
           In problem-solving investigations, students demonstrate an understanding of patterns, relations, and functions that represent and explain real-world situations.

Educational Technology Standards: 

    * Recognize the importance of information technology and its effect on the workplace and society.
    * ( 5 )Determine when technology is useful and select the appropriate tool(s) and technology resources to address a variety of tasks and problems.
      ( 2 )

Objectives:
1. The learner will list characteristics of figurative language and poetry.
2. The learner will listen to the poem, "Jabberwocky" while imagining meaning to assign to nonsense words in the poem and will write ideas associated with the poem.
3. The learner will share thoughts about interpretation of the poem.
4. The learner will use kinesthetic learning style to clap the rhythm of poetry.
5. The learner will define apostrophe, hyperbole, irony, metaphor, oxymoron, paradox, personification, simile, idiom, rhyme, rhythm.
6. The learner will read the poem "PT 109" while listening to recording of song and associate poetry to lyrics of songs.
7. The learner will show an understanding of poetry scansion, define terms for meter and relate the terms with mathematic terms.
8. The learner will use definitions, poetry scansion ability, and interpretation of figurative language to interpret poetry.
Lesson Materials and Resources:
Chart Paper and Marker
Carroll, Lewis. "Jabberwocky." 1992. Disney
Press, New York.
Silverstein, Shel. Where the Sidewalk Ends.
1974. Harper Collins Publishers.
CD Player
"PT 109" Jimmy Dean (Song)
Oxymoron. http://www.oxymoronlist.com/99k
Idioms. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/67201/
Hyperbole. http://volweb.utk.edu/Schools/bedford/harrisms/hyperbole.htm
Poetry - http://depts.gallaudet.edu/englishworks/literature/fiction.html
Rhythm - http://www.kysu.edu/artscience/LLP/211/rythm.htm
Handouts:
Figurative Language Worksheet
Rhythm in Poetry
Figures of Speech Tic Tac Toe
Group Responsibility Sheet (for Tic Tac Toe)
Figurative Language Assessment
Figurative Language Rubric
Words to Poetry: "PT 109"
"As I Was Going to St. Ives"
"Jabberwocky" Power Point
"Poetry" Power Point
Technology Tools and Materials:

Hardware:
Computer
Projector

Software:
Power Point

Websites:
•Oxymoron
      www.oxymoronlist.com/-99k
•Idioms
      www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/67201/
•Hyperbole
      volweb.utk.edu/Schools/bedford/harrisms/hyperbole.htm
•Poetry
      depts.gallaudet.edu/englishworks/literature/fiction.html
•Rhythm
      www.kysu.edu/artsscience/LLP/211/rythm.htm

Other:
Background Information:
Students should have a foundational understanding of poetry.
Lesson Procedures:
1. Using Chart paper, record students' brainstorm ideas of what they know about poetry. (Rhythm, Rhyme, feelings associated, etc.)
2. Have students close their eyes and imagine what the meaning of the poem, "Jabberwocky" is while you read the poem to them.
3. Have students open their eyes and write down the thoughts and images that went through their minds as they listened.
4. Allow students to share their ideas.
5. Teacher claps out the rhythm of "Jabberwocky".
Have students join in the clapping activity.
6. Use Power Point of "Jabberwocky" to show students how the Disney artists drew their interpretation.
7. Play CD as students listen to a ballad, "PT 109".
8. Help students clap out the rhythm of the song as they read the words and listen to the music. Look at other literary devices in the printed copy.
9. Students will associate songs that they listen to regularly as poetry.
10. Give students the Figurative Language worksheet. Students will define poetry terms as the teacher introduces these terms using the Poetry Power Point, stopping to discuss terms.
11. Divide students into groups of 2 for first playing of "Figures of Speech Tic Tac Toe". Students may use their Worksheets to play first 2 rounds. Groups of 3 would be used for additional rounds using the Group Responsibility handout.
12. Students will read "As I Was Going to St. Ives" and problem solve the situation.
13. Teacher will explain how poetry scansion is done. Greek prefixes that are tacked on to the word meter will be reviewed and tied to math terms.
14. Students will listen to "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner" recorded by Iron Maiden as a culminating activity.

Day 2 for block class:
1. Give students a poem and ask them to evaluate the figurative language.
2. Figurative Language Assessment will be given
to asses ability to use terminology in relation to poetry.
Assessment Procedures:
Informal:
1. Students will participate in discussion and clapping activities during instruction.
2. Students will complete Figurative Language Worksheet and will use it during game activity.
3. Students will be monitored as they play Figuarative Language Tic Tac Toe.
Formal:
Students will complete the Figurative Language Assessment for a grade.
Accommodations/Modifications:
Students will work in groups to play Figures of Speech Tic Tac Toe. They will be grouped heterogeneously so that low performing students will be tutored by higher performing students. Special Education and 504 students will be tested according to modifications in their plans.
          ----- written by Linda Himel

***TEACHERS MUST FOLLOW SPECIAL NEEDS STUDENT'S INDIVIDUAL EDUCATION PLAN (IEP) OR 504 MODIFICATIO PLAN.***

STUDENTS WITH SENSORY IMPAIRMENTS
VISION:
Lesson Procedures # 1,8,10,11,12,13; Day 2 - Lesson Procedure # 1; and assessment procedures # 2 and 3, the teacher can enlarge and/or change the color of the font used on reproducible materials/worksheets. Color overlays could also be used to enhance the readability of worksheets for students with limited vision. Other accommodations: If the student is unable to read any print size, a reading buddy could be assigned to read the articles and reproducible worksheets to the student, then write the student's dictated answers. During this procedure, a student with restricted sight could also use a text to speech software program (ReadPlease, EReader, Kruzweil 3000) to articles/worksheets scanned into a word processor.
*ReadPlease is a free software program available at www.readplease.com that will read any text you see on your screen. This can be from your Browser, Email, Word processor, spreadsheet or any program that displays text.
*E Reader also allows the student to access the Internet within this program and then read out loud the text found within a site.

Lesson Procedures # 1,6,10; and assessment procedures # 2 and 3 change the monitor font size and/or background colors. Also use Windows Accessibility on the computer to accommodate the needs of a student with limited vision. Go to start, programs, Accessories, Accessibility, Magnifier and / or Accessibility Wizard - follow instructions for vision, hearing, and or mobility needs

Lesson Procedures 1,3,4,10; Day 2 - Lesson Procedures # 1 and 2; and assessment procedures # 2 and 3, A speech to text software(ViaVoice, Dragon-Naturally Speaking, XP Version of Windows, Microsoft Windows Accessibility feature) could be used to create a document with answers to the discussion questions. Speech to text software can be trained to understand the spoken words of the vision impaired student and type those words onto the screen.

HEARING:
*Teacher should maintain proximity and eye-contact during class discussions

*Pair with non-disabled student/peer tutor or transliterator to insure understanding of directions

*An FM System (Phonak, Phonic Ear) could be used for introduction discussion and instructions for all lesson procedures. Phonak’s FM is a wireless communication device which consist of a transmitter, which picks up the voice from the speaker and sends it via radio waves, wireless, directly to the tiny FM receiver, which is connected to the personal hearing instrument.

Lesson Procedures # 2,6,7,8,12,14 The student with limited hearing could use the Windows Accessibility Wizard for Deaf / Hearing Impaired Students (Go to start button - programs - accessories - accessibility - accessibility wizard ).

Lesson Procedures # 1,3,410,12;Day 2 - Lesson Procedures # 1 and 2; and assessment procedures # 2 and 3 a student who does not effectively communicate orally will type the answers to questions and have group member/peer tutor read it to the class. Other accommodations: Student will use a text to speech program (ReadPlease, EReader, Write Out Loud) to read written text for presentation or a digitialized speech computer (DynaVox, Dynamyte, BoardMaker) to present prearranged/preprogrammed presentation or communicate within the classroom. The Speech Therapist or Para-educator could be utilized to input answers into digitialized speech devices or provide pictures into communication wallet, if given prior notice of class assignments.
*ReadPlease is a free software program available at www.readplease.com that will read any text you see on your screen. This can be from your Browser, Email, Word processor, spreadsheet or any program that displays text.
*E Reader also allows the student to access the Internet within this program and then read out loud the text found within a site.
*Write:Outloud - a talking word processor that lets the student see and hear what he/she is writing while answering questions.
*The Dynavox is a communication device that enables students who have speaking disabilities to communicate their ideas and thoughts through a computer that speaks for them. Basically, the device would have an array of simple phrases that are used in people’s everyday lives, which can be initiated by the press of a button.
*Boardmaker is a computer program that uses the Mayor- Johnson Picture Communication Symbols and other line drawing clip art. There are symbols to represent many nouns, verbs, and adjectives. The program is used to create communication boards.

STUDENTS WITH ATTENTION/BEHAVIOR DIFFICULTIES
*Before the lesson begins the teacher and the student can establish a predetermined signal to redirect the student's attention back to task during the introduction discussion and when all directions are given. Other accommodations: *An FM System (Phonak, Phonic Ear) could be used for introduction discussion and instructions for all lesson procedures. Phonak’s FM is a wireless communication device which consist of a transmitter, which picks up the voice from the speaker and sends it via radio waves, wireless, directly to the tiny FM receiver, which is connected to the personal hearing instrument.
*Maintain eye contact during oral directions.

For lesson Procedures # 1,3,4,10;Day 2 - Lesson Procedures # 1 and 2; and assessment procedures # 2 and 3 allow students with attention disorders or students with difficulties organizing information to outline their collected research in a graphic orgainzer (Inspiration of Kidspiration Software). The students can also use images or artwork to depict their research. *Cut or fold data collection sheet to present questions one at a time for research procedures or reduce the amount of questions the student has to answer. The student can also use a grid overlay to display one question at a time.

Lesson Procedures # 8, 14, 12: provide an alternate work location (sit on the floor,quiet area of class)

Lesson Procedures # 2,3,7,8,10,12,14: Weighted hand or wrist equipment, a weighted stuffed animal in the lap, may help the student in focusing while viewing power point presentations, listening to music, and stories/poem read to class.

Additional General Classroom Accommodations found in "Helpful Links"

          ----- written by Brenda Delone


Reproducible Materials:

    * Figures of Speech Tic-Tac-Toe
    * Poetry Power Point
    * Figurative Language Assessment
    * Rhythm in Poetry
    * Figurative Language Assessment Rubric
    * Figurative Language Worksheet
    * \"As I Was Going to St. Ives\"

Explorations and Extensions:
Students could write examples of the figurative devices discussed.
Students could write their own poetry using the figurative language discussed.
Lesson Development Resources:
Carroll, Lewis. "Jabberwocky". 1992. Disney
Press. New York.
Silverstein, Shel. Where the Sidewalk Ends. 1974.
Harper Collins Publishers.
"As I Was Going to St. Ives"
Reflections:
Students were attentive and interested in the activities. Students became more aware of poetry used in music and understood the relevance of poetry to their lives.
Contact Information:
Linda Himel
linda.himel@la.gov
LINCS

"Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2
At the heart of that Western freedom and democracy is the belief that the individual man, the child of God, is the touchstone of value..." -RFK

Offline Beefcake

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2009, 12:21:32 pm »
The Matrix isn't about the NWO, unless you make it about that in your own mind. It's a Gnostic movie, about metaphysics and mumbo jumbo.
The Wizard of Oz... uhh it's one man pretending to have magical powers.
Alice In Wonderland I watched.... 15 years ago? No idea if it is NWO related or not but I doubt it.

What impression do you have?

What are you talking about?  Of course the matrix alludes to a new world order.  You think you are profound by saying its a gnostic movie and yes there is plenty of gnostic elements in the second and third film but the notion of us living in a false reality and that we are controlled by an entity that perceives humanity as a "resource" is totally NWO.

The wizard or oz is notoriously linked to the occult.  My god do a search read the info the movie is teaming with symbolism.
Alice in Wonderland also filled with masonic symbolism and occult symbolism.  Again do some research man.

I'm not even going to waste my time going through the info because honestly i could fill several pages with it i will leave it to you to do the research

I have to ask though have you been living under a rock or something because you are totally clueless.

Offline Dig

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2009, 12:24:08 pm »
excerpt from adventures....

‘When I use a world,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘It means just what I choose it to mean.  Neither more or less.’

‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘who is to be master.  That is all.’
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Unintelligable Name

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Re: Alice In Wonderland: Movie
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2009, 12:47:55 pm »
What are you talking about?  Of course the matrix alludes to a new world order.  You think you are profound by saying its a gnostic movie and yes there is plenty of gnostic elements in the second and third film but the notion of us living in a false reality and that we are controlled by an entity that perceives humanity as a "resource" is totally NWO.
The wizard or oz is notoriously linked to the occult.  My god do a search read the info the movie is teaming with symbolism.
Alice in Wonderland also filled with masonic symbolism and occult symbolism.  Again do some research man.
I'm not even going to waste my time going through the info because honestly i could fill several pages with it i will leave it to you to do the research
I have to ask though have you been living under a rock or something because you are totally clueless.

I laughed. Not your intent but that was the result. Suppose I'll say it again... the 'false reality' the movie refers to isn't the NWO.... it's the Physical Universe itself. Hence Neo, the Gnostic Messiah, becomes super human and stops bullets... Yeah there's a bit about being free from killer machines in Zion... and the 'fake' reality. The only thing that is literally New World Order related is the downloading information into people's brains and all that jazz, cybornetics... and the obvious killer robots.

I was thinking of the Wizard of Oz from the viewpoint that is contained something of relevance to the New World Order system, not the obvious occultic influence with warlocks/wizards and fairies... Look at my conversation with the OP if you're lost...

I wrote I watched Alice in Wonderland 15 years ago... and didn't remember it. Clearly I'm a moron if I can't remember.  :D

Calling me clueless on the basis of an assumption is a faulty practice, but I can't say it bothered me so no foul no harm.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2009, 01:31:20 pm »
Liddell and Scott I like and Lewis Carroll too.


Thomas Hardy, Liddell and Scott On the Completion of their Lexicon:

    'Well, though it seems
    Beyond our dreams,'
    Said Liddell to Scott,
    'We've really got
    To the very end,
    All inked and penned
    Blotless and fair
    Without turning a hair,
    This sultry summer day, A.D.
    Eighteen hundred and forty-three.

    'I've often, I own,
    Belched many a moan
    At undertaking it,
    And dreamt of forsaking it.
    -- Yes, on to Pi,
    When the end loomed nigh,
    And friends said: "You've as good as done,"
    I almost wished we'd not begun.
    Even now, if people only knew
    My sinkings, as we slowly drew
    Along through Kappa, Lambda, Mu,
    They'd be concerned at my misgiving,
    And how I mused on a College living
        Right down to Sigma,
        But feared a stigma
    If I succumbed, and left old Donnegan
    For weary freshmen's eyes to con again:
    And how I often, often wondered
    What could have led me to have blundered
    So far away from sound theology
    To dialects and etymology;
    Words, accents not to be breathed by men
    Of any country ever again!'

        'My heart most failed,
        Indeed, quite quailed,'
        Said Scott to Liddell,
        'Long ere the middle!...
        'Twas one wet dawn
        When, slippers on,
        And a cold in the head anew,
        Gazing at Delta
        I turned and felt a
        Wish for bed anew.
        And to let supersedings
        Of Passow's readings
        In dialects go.
        "That German has read
        More than we!" I said;
    Yea, several times did I feel so!...

    'O that first morning, smiling bland,
    With sheets of foolscap, quills in hand,
    To write ἀάατος and ἀαγής,
    Followed by fifteen hundred pages,
    What nerve was ours
    So back to our powers,
    Assured that we should reach ᾠώδης
    While there was breath left in our bodies!'

    Liddell replied: 'Well, that's past now'
    The job's done, thank God anyhow.'

        'And yet it's not,'
        Considered Scott,
        'For we've to get
        Subscribers yet
        We must remember;
        Yes; by September.'

    'O Lord; dismiss that. We'll succeed.
    Dinner is my immediate need.
    I feel as hollow as a fiddle,
    Working so many hours,' said Liddell.




I guess the Victorian Age is beyond most people here.
Quote
"The Carroll Myth"

The accepted view of Dodgson's biography has been challenged recently by a group of scholars led by Hugues Lebailly and Karoline Leach and others who argue that Dodgson's diaries and letters reveal him to have been very different in many key aspects from the traditional image. Leach's book, In the Shadow of the Dreamchild, in particular has raised a considerable amount of controversy.

Lebailly has endeavoured to set Dodgson's child-photography within the "Victorian Child Cult", which perceived child-nudity as essentially an expression of innocence. Lebailly claims that studies of child nudes were mainstream and fashionable in Dodgson's time and that most photographers, including Oscar Gustave Rejlander and Julia Margaret Cameron, made them as a matter of course. Lebailly continues that child nudes even appeared on Victorian Christmas cards—implying a very different social and aesthetic assessment of such material. Lebailly concludes that it has been an error of Dodgson's biographers to view his child-photography with 20th or 21st century eyes, and to have presented it as some form of personal idiosyncrasy, when it was in fact a response to a prevalent aesthetic and philosophical movement of the time.

Leach posed a new analysis of Dodgson's sexuality. She argues that the allegations of paedophilia rose initially from a misunderstanding of Victorian morals, as well as the mistaken idea, fostered by Dodgson's various biographers, that he had no interest in adult women. She termed the traditional image of Dodgson "the Carroll Myth". She asserts his diaries show he was also keenly interested in adult women, married and single, and enjoyed several scandalous (by the social standards of his time) relationships with them. In later life many of those he described as "child-friends" were girls in their late teens and even twenties. She argues that suggestions of paedophilia evolved only many years after his death, when his well-meaning family had suppressed all evidence of his relationships with women in an effort to preserve his reputation, thus giving a false impression of a man interested only in little girls. Similarly, Leach traces the claim that many of Carroll's female friendships ended when the girls reached the age of 14 to a 1932 biography by Langford Reed, who Leach claims intended to suggest from this that Dodgson was a "pure man" untainted by sexual desire.

Sherry L. Ackerman argues that the Carroll Myth also extends to traditional, mainstream views of Carroll's spirituality. Ackerman proposes that Carroll, rather than being a conservative Victorian Anglican, was actually a mystic. She links Carroll to the nineteenth century Neoplatonic Revival in Great Britain, as well as to accompanying trends of theosophy and spiritualism.

The concept of the Carroll Myth has been opposed by some leading Carroll scholars, in particular Morton Cohen and Martin Gardner. Cohen repudiates Leach's position as being simply a plea for the defence, and, in a recent article in the Times Literary Supplement labeled Leach and her supporters as 'revisionists' attempting to rewrite history. Gardner was likewise dismissive in an article published by the Lewis Carroll Society of North America. Similarly, in a review published in Victorian Studies (Vol. 43, No 4), Donald Rackin wrote, "As a piece of biographical scholarship, Karoline Leach's In the Shadow of the Dreamchild is difficult to take seriously".


We don't know the identity of Jack the Ripper:

Quote
26 different names have been entertained throughout the years as to identity of Jack the Ripper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper_suspects

Lewis Carroll (pen name of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson) (27 January 1832 – 14 January 1898) was the author of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass. He was named as a suspect based upon anagrams which author Richard Wallace devised for his book Jack the Ripper, Light-Hearted Friend. This claim is not taken seriously by scholars.


Offline Dig

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2009, 05:50:42 pm »
Liddell and Scott I like and Lewis Carroll too.


Thomas Hardy, Liddell and Scott On the Completion of their Lexicon:

    'Well, though it seems
    Beyond our dreams,'
    Said Liddell to Scott,
    'We've really got
    To the very end,
    All inked and penned
    Blotless and fair
    Without turning a hair,
    This sultry summer day, A.D.
    Eighteen hundred and forty-three.

    'I've often, I own,
    Belched many a moan
    At undertaking it,
    And dreamt of forsaking it.
    -- Yes, on to Pi,
    When the end loomed nigh,
    And friends said: "You've as good as done,"
    I almost wished we'd not begun.
    Even now, if people only knew
    My sinkings, as we slowly drew
    Along through Kappa, Lambda, Mu,
    They'd be concerned at my misgiving,
    And how I mused on a College living
        Right down to Sigma,
        But feared a stigma
    If I succumbed, and left old Donnegan
    For weary freshmen's eyes to con again:
    And how I often, often wondered
    What could have led me to have blundered
    So far away from sound theology
    To dialects and etymology;
    Words, accents not to be breathed by men
    Of any country ever again!'

        'My heart most failed,
        Indeed, quite quailed,'
        Said Scott to Liddell,
        'Long ere the middle!...
        'Twas one wet dawn
        When, slippers on,
        And a cold in the head anew,
        Gazing at Delta
        I turned and felt a
        Wish for bed anew.
        And to let supersedings
        Of Passow's readings
        In dialects go.
        "That German has read
        More than we!" I said;
    Yea, several times did I feel so!...

    'O that first morning, smiling bland,
    With sheets of foolscap, quills in hand,
    To write ἀάατος and ἀαγής,
    Followed by fifteen hundred pages,
    What nerve was ours
    So back to our powers,
    Assured that we should reach ᾠώδης
    While there was breath left in our bodies!'

    Liddell replied: 'Well, that's past now'
    The job's done, thank God anyhow.'

        'And yet it's not,'
        Considered Scott,
        'For we've to get
        Subscribers yet
        We must remember;
        Yes; by September.'

    'O Lord; dismiss that. We'll succeed.
    Dinner is my immediate need.
    I feel as hollow as a fiddle,
    Working so many hours,' said Liddell.




I guess the Victorian Age is beyond most people here.

We don't know the identity of Jack the Ripper:



uh, the victorian age is ok, but the seducing and raping of children using mind distracting/controling story telling is kind of f-d up.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2009, 08:01:37 pm »
Its worse than that, and like I said before it is all connected. More to come, need to follow the Cecil Roades connection.
The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2009, 08:17:18 pm »
Liddell died in 1898; Charles Dodgson, alias Lewis Carroll, died just four days before. Although Liddell was 21 years older than Dodgson, this Tweedledum and Tweedledee shared that Sunday’s eulogy by Liddell’s successor,

“Dean Paget preached a sermon in Christ Church Cathedral honoring the memory of both men. The irony of the conjunction could not have been lost on many in the congregation” (Cohen, 526).

These two men’s concurrent deaths and shared memorial paired them perpetually. Their duet continues today, as storytellers and lexicon sellers give them both ‘mouth enough to speak.’ They harmonize to overthrow the Bible for both young and old.

Dodgson “had been his friend, ridiculer, defender in the press, and who had in the end made the Liddell name more famous than royal visits, social pretension, or even the celebrated Greek-English Lexicon” (Thomas, p. 353).

The fires of hell, which Dodgson denied, burst through to consume his madness. As his last will and testament had stated, his risqué photos must be burned by his executor. “It was plain that on his death there must be a bonfire of many papers, sketches, photographs, and other items.” The “nude photographs from the 1870,” as well as the later sketches were burned “by his executors” on his death. “[P]art of his diary was found to be torn out, covering the troubled Oxford summer weeks of 1879…” (Thomas, pp. 355, 356, 352). “[W]hile Charles’s relatives were sorting out his papers, a constant pillar of smoke rose from the chimney over his rooms as bundle after bundle of his papers, letters, and manuscripts went up in flames” (Cohen, p. 528). The “baffling turns of character that had disappointed some,” “many would now consider proved” (Hudson, pp. 24, 25). All that remains of Dodgson are his Alice books, which still send his old smoldering sin to the four winds.
 
When Dodgson died, the occult community rose up, joining others to donate money to his memory. Even Walter Besant, brother-in-law of Luciferian Annie Besant offered to give a double portion (Hudson, p. 23). Dodgson’s Alice in Wonderland became “the companion of Sade (for whom the term ‘sadism’ was coined’), of Adolf Hitler…” and scores of hapless children and parents who somehow missed The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease (1938). It warned parents of Dodgson’s ‘cruelty’ (although its article was too Freudian). Alice was too apt to be “trying to box her own ears” or to have a Pigeon “beating her violently.” In 1936 the article’s author, who was from the Medical College of New York University’s Department of Psychiatry, addressed the American Psychoanalytical Society. He warned his audience against “exposing children to the dangerous corruption of Lewis Carroll’s books.”  “Dodgson had been a profoundly disturbed personality,” all must conclude (Thomas, pp. 355, 363).
The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2009, 08:23:17 pm »
Dodgson, Ruskin, Müller, Jowett, Kingsley, and Eliot

Dodgson’s poem “Stolen Waters” includes the line, “They call me mad.” He wrote of his alter-ego, the Mad Hatter, in his Alice books. The little private enclave that Liddell created with his choice bizarre friends was the hidden and private Wonderland of which Dodgson wrote. “‘[W]e’re all mad here,’ said the Cat. ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here’” (See Thomas, p. 128 et al.).
The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2009, 08:34:34 pm »
Um, I don't know what those sources are.  Who is Thomas 128?  What book, etc.

Um, I don't see any reference there to pedophilia.  Can you bold the relevant stuff?

Since you are making a Christian argument, there is no pleasing it with Victorian society.  So, I don't expect your argument to accept anything else other than the narrow KJB beliefs.

Would you explain your argument in your own words?

Can you explain exactly how Liddell and Scott set out to ruin the Bible?

I think that your argument that Lewis Carroll was a pedophile is inaccurate.

Did you know that your argument mostly takes modern day concepts and precepts and it blatantly and irresponsibly applies them to history?

Lewis Carroll was a product of his times.  How many artists in history painting young nude models?  Are they all pedophiles?  In days past, especially the early Christian days, people tended to marry others much younger than themselves.  I guess those early Christians are also pedophiles according to your argument.

I've been carrying the smaller Liddell and Scott in my bag for quite a few years now.  I guess you have issues with my behavior too.

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2009, 08:40:39 pm »
Cecil Rhodes: His Lexicon & His “Secret Society”
 
Liddell’s Lexicon and his selection of Ruskin for a professorship had an unforeseen and monumental impact on the world as we now know it. Liddell’s biographer notes,

“Dr. Woods has not exaggerated the deep impression which Mr. Ruskin’s lectures, from 1869 to 1879, make upon the Oxford world;” (Thompson, p. 229).

 One student in particular, “heard with awe the words of Ruskin” (Sarah Gertrude Millin, Cecil Rhodes, New York: Grossett & Dunlap, 1933, p. 346). He was the soon-to-be diamond magnate and millionaire, Cecil J. Rhodes (1853-1902), the man for whom the African nation of Rhodesia and the Rhodes Scholarship were named. Cecil Rhodes carried his Liddell-Scott Greek-English lexicon with him everywhere. And I mean everywhere. During the three months of perilous travel from England to Africa, he carried three essentials:

“…his digger’s tools, some volumes of the classics, and a Greek lexicon” (Millin, p. 21).

His biographer asks, ‘why would a sixteen year youth carry such objects.’

“[W]hat was he doing here with his classics and his Greek lexicon? Why had he brought them across the seas and carried them by Scotch cart and oxen, all the slow, lumbering way…just…these books and his digger’s tools?” (Millin, p. 26). 

These were the tools of a young man who was seeking to unearth buried diamonds, while burying his Christian upbringing under the titillating pages of the pagan Greek ‘classics’ and myths, rift with homosexuality, murder, drunkenness, debauchery, and intrigue. The lexicon served to translate the only bawdy material available to a young man in his day. The lexicon also served the same function it did for the liberal clergy who remained in England – it served as the magic book that could challenge any Bible charge against a life of unbelief and sin.

Rhodes longed to attend Oxford, the mother-load for his treasured lexicon and its ‘Father’ Henry Liddell. When he finally became a student at Oxford, between 1876-1878, he fell under the direct spell of Liddell’s appointee and ‘Utopia’ advocate, John Ruskin. “The Disciple of Ruskin” is the title to chapter four of his biography, Cecil Rhodes. Rhodes’ was a “mind buzzing with the exhortations of Ruskin.” “The government of the world was Rhodes’ simple desire” (Millin, pp. 319). In 1877,

“Inspired by Ruskin’s Inaugural Lecture at Oxford, he makes out his first will” (Millin, p. 354).

As a homosexual, “Rhodes had no wife and children to whom to leave his money; and although he was passionately interested in his “young men” and wanted (as his Rhodes Scholarships prove) heirs to his tradition,” he determined to leave his yet-to-be-made millions to fulfill his goal of “world-dominion by blonde men” (Millin, pp. 216, 354, 356).

Rhodes wanted to experience the unbridled life of the Greek god-man, as portrayed vividly in his ever-companion, the Greek lexicon and its foundational Greek myths and philosophies. His ideas of a one-world government, his elite secret society, his homosexuality, his drinking, his megalomania, and his greed can all be traced directly to his fascination with the Greeks, particularly Aristotle and Zeno. 

Rhodes’ One-World Government

Rhodes’ “digger’s tools” started eroding America’s sovereignty and independent economy many years ago. As a super-power, America stands in the way of a one-world government. America’s mountainous strength must be chopped away to unearth Rhodes one-world white diamond. His biography (Cecil Rhodes by Sarah Millin), written in 1933, and his will, The Last Will and Testament of Cecil John Rhodes edited by W.T. Stead (London: “Review of Reviews” Office, 1902) spell out in grave detail, the plan which unfolds with today’s newspaper. It is being implemented by the latest brood of Rhodes scholars. Rhodes said,

“The future is clear – we shall be one.”
“…how ridiculous it would appear to you to see all these divided states, divided tariffs, divided people…it is merely a question of the years it will take to complete.”  “[Y]ou cannot live unless you have the trade of the world…It must be brought home to you that your trade is the world, and your life is the world…” (Millin, pp. 132, 176).

The “Ruskin-Darwin-Aristotle theme” was the driving power of Rhodes, notes his biographer. Ruskin said,

“I contend that we are the first race in the world, and that the more of the world we inhabit, the better it is for the human race” (Millin, p. 34).

When he introduced the Glen Grey Act to push the native Africans from their land and when he wrote his will, “He still had in his mind the exhortation of Ruskin,

“She must found colonies as fast and as far as she is able, formed of her most energetic and worthiest men; seizing any piece of fruitful waste ground she can set her foot on, and there teaching her colonists that their chief virtue is to be fidelity to their country and that their first aim is to be to advance the power of England by land and sea”” (Millin, 173).

Rhodes’ Darwinian racism is in full view when he says,

“If the whites maintain their position as the supreme race, the day may come when we shall all be thankful that we have escaped those difficulties which are going on amongst all the old races of the world” (Millin, p. 234).

Any setback brought out his falsetto, as he whined,

“It is humiliating to be utterly beaten back by these niggers” (Neil Parsons, A New History of Southern Africa, 2nd edition, London: Macmillan, 1933), pp. 179-181 et al.).

Millin, his biographer notes, “These were also the politics of Aristotle,” graven in his mind via Liddell’s lexicon (Millin, p. 134). Millin adds,

“Rhodes did not know it, but he was a Nietzschean” (Millin, p. 135).

Rhodes was also repulsed by Christian missionaries. He knew that missionaries taught and “insisted that the black people and the white people were brothers” in Christ.  Rhodes pronounced, “We are to be lords over them.”  He was “against all missionaries.”  His approach was “The missionaries must not convert – not too much” (Millin, pp. 59, 65, 354, 102).

Rhodes’ Will and Its ‘Secret Society’

Rhodes’ last will and testament set forth his blueprint for a secret society to direct the building of his one-world government.

“In this particular will a secret society is to carry out his scheme…” (Millin, p. 34).

The exact wording of the will leaves his money:

“To and for the establishment, promotion and development of a Secret Society, the true aim and object whereof shall be for the extension of British rule throughout the world…”

The will called for,

“The whole continent of Africa is to be settled by Britons, and also the whole continent of South America, the Holy Land…the seaboard of China and Japan, and, finally the United States. In the end Great Britain is to establish a power so overwhelming that wars must cease and the millennium must be realized” (Millin, p. 34).

“The confidant of his maturity was W.T. Stead,” who published Borderland, a spiritualist journal containing articles favorable to “occultism” and “palmistry.” Stead, like Stanley and Ruskin, was a member of the Society of Psychical Research; he also used automatic writing. He went down with the Titanic, a ship of the White Star Line, named after Lucifer (Millin, p. 23, Oppenheim, pp. 34, 47, 141; Riplinger, The Language of the King James Bible, p. 129).

Rhodes last will and his “words to Stead are no more than a recapitulation of his first will, made fifteen years before, to the purpose of “the foundation of so great a power as to hereafter render wars impossible…”” (Millin, p. 173). “Rhodes went to England to see Lord Rothschild, and Lord Rothschild approved of him” (Millin, p. 86). Rhodes’ open letter to Stead said he wanted,

“Union with America, and universal peace, I mean after one hundred years, and a secret society organized like Loyola’s, supported by the accumulated wealth of those whose aspiration is a desire to do something…to one language throughout the world, the patent being the gradual absorption of wealth and humane minds of the higher order to the object…” (Millin, p. 129, 217).

Rhodes’ scheme included:
 
   “one language throughout the world” [English]

   “a federation with America (“We could hold your federal parliament five years at Washington and five at London”)

   “and of “the only feasible thing to carry out the idea – a secret society gradually absorbing the wealth of the world!”” (Millin, pp. 173-172).

Millin quotes Rhodes,

““Being a Free Trader,” he writes to Stead, “I believe until the world comes to its senses you should declare war with those who are trying to boycott your manufacturers…You might finish the war (the tariff war) by union with America and universal peace. I mean after a hundred years, and a secret society organized like Loyola’s”” (Millin, pp. 173, 174).

Millin adds,

“He felt, perhaps, that Gladstone was not the sort of man to whom one might confide one’s admiration of Loyola” (Millin, pp. 173, 174).

His own “Secret Society” was to supersede the Freemasons, of which he had been a lifetime member since his Oxford days (Anthony Thomas, Rhodes: The Race for Africa, London Bridge, November, 1997, (ISBN 0-5663-38742-4).

 “The discovery of his patent, as he called it, for spreading England and unifying the world and so bringing about the millennium may have been his proven right where all other rights were merely the experimental rights which could be thrown away” (Millin, p. 170). Rhodes’ last will and testament set the stage for today’s jobless American.  His anti-tariff plans have been carried out by his Rhodes’ scholar, Bill Clinton.  The tariff walls which would have protected the American economy have been torn down to allow for Rhodes’ diamond, a world economy (Millin, p. 173). This is God’s judgment on a blessed America that has forgotten God. God had blessed America; it is time for America to bless God.


The Rhodes Scholarship

His last will and testament charged that his great wealth (gathered through diamond mining with the sweat of African nationals) should be spent for the indoctrination and education of his “union of blond men.” These scholarship recipients were to become the leaders, who could facilitate his dream of a one-world government. “They are the meaning of his last will and the plan behind his scholarships” (Millin, pp. 344, 172-173). 

“…the essence of the will, as the world knows is the Scholarship Foundation. In the end all that Rhodes can do toward extending British rule and restoring Anglo-Saxon unity and founding a guardian power for the whole of humanity is to arrange for a number of young men from the United States, the British colonies, and Germany to go to Oxford…After thirty years there would be, in the words of Stead, “between two and three thousand men in the prime of life scattered all over the world, each one of whom would have had impressed upon his mind in the most susceptible period of his life the dream of the Founder” – each one of whom, moreover, would have been specifically – mathematically – selected toward the Founder’s purpose…” (Millin, pp. 330, 331).

Ruskin told Stead the scholars should have characteristics such as, “smugness, brutality, unctuous rectitude and tact” (Millin, 331). 

The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2009, 08:46:13 pm »
You're just posting walls of text without any explanation of sources or anything.  I don't follow your argument.

Liddell and Scott are well respected scholars and their Lexicon is standard.  Please explain in plain English and in your own words what is wrong with that fact.

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2009, 09:14:46 pm »
Quote

Quote
Um, I don't know what those sources are.  Who is Thomas 128?  What book, etc.

Thomas would be the son of Henry Liddell, wrote a book about his father, I think you could goggle anything you need to know.

Quote
Um, I don't see any reference there to pedophilia.  Can you bold the relevant stuff?

The Pedophilia is well know and not anything I think would be necessary for me to prove, I think Sane laid out many things also, I am just laying out the story, I don't think you can't find these facts.

Quote
Since you are making a Christian argument, there is no pleasing it with Victorian society.  So, I don't expect your argument to accept anything else other than the narrow KJB beliefs.

Actually, it is much broader than your inferred narrow belief, it is all connected to the New World Order.

Quote
Would you explain your argument in your own words?

I haven't written any book yet, but I am doing the best I can right now.

Quote
Can you explain exactly how Liddell and Scott set out to ruin the Bible?

Word by word, change the definitions of words and the meaning is preverted.

Quote
I think that your argument that Lewis Carroll was a pedophile is inaccurate.

I think a little more investigation would change your mind.

Quote
Did you know that your argument mostly takes modern day concepts and precepts and it blatantly and irresponsibly applies them to history?

Sorry, I did not mean any harm, but I do think I am correct.

Quote
Lewis Carroll was a product of his times.  How many artists in history painting young nude models?  Are they all pedophiles?  In days past, especially the early Christian days, people tended to marry others much younger than themselves.  I guess those early Christians are also pedophiles according to your argument.


That is interesting you would say that Mr. Dodgson did seek to officially try to court young Alice, the mother put her foot down right after that. I am sure pedophiles are much more sophisticated after 4000 years of practice, but your assertions could be right they might not all be pedophiles.

Quote
I've been carrying the smaller Liddell and Scott in my bag for quite a few years now.  I guess you have issues with my behavior too.

No, not really it seem I hit a nerve, but no harm meet, maybe you could think about it, there may be some truth attached.

My the way I have a Liddell-Scott also, a 1846 version, cost a pretty penny too. I guess we have something in common with Cecil Rhodes.
The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [a christian's guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2009, 10:55:41 pm »
Um, Liddell and Scott are not used to translate the Bible, there is another lexicon which is used and I am sure you think it's evil as well.

Please let us know what lexicon you use, since you don't agree with the ones already in use.

Can you provide an example of where Liddell and Scott ipso facto changed the meaning of some word?  Can you give perhaps three more sentences as to how these two men are NWO and had all this power to "control" things?

As you go back in history you will find that all academia is elite the further back you go.  Even the KJB was compiled by elite scholars.  In those days only elites could even study this stuff.  So - it's difficult to go back through history with modern day marxist precepts that didn't exist at the time of said history and then judge these people.  It's a fail.

What knowledge do you have which was never passed through the hands of elites at some time?

We have very little in common.  I am not an in-the-closet marxist/historical revisionist who goes through the history books applying modern day elite mumbo jumbo criticism and I am not trying to discredit everything based on modern day revisionist evangelical fundamentalist arguments.  I do not want to censure culture as it appears in history.

I read through all your arguments and I saw no PROOF that Lewis Carroll was a practicing pedophile nor that Liddell and Scott were evil elites.

I need clear examples to understand how any of these accusations are true.

This thread fails because it attempts to go back in history and to critic everyone and their product based upon YOUR opinions and YOUR perception of their lifestyle.  You have nothing to back up the argument except your perceptions of their lifestyle.

I get bored with this feel good moralist critique - everyone was either a perfect Christian or a NWO shill.  Well, history is not that simple.

As usual, historical context is thrown out the window with these arguments and instead a blanket critique is thrown against any historical fact and again it is weighed against modern day precepts.

It's all very marxist, isn't it?  I.e. saying that the elites control everything and therefore all knowledge is controlled and then going through history and attempting to censure all these elites and their products as evil.  I don't see why one needs to spend so much time judging the culture and people in historical movements.

We at least need a better theory of the 19th c. or 18th c. elitists in order to go back and start picking and choosing who is moral and who is not.

19th c. evangelical tent revivalist (where christian historical revisionism comes from along with white nationalism propaganda) was not the moral standard of the 19th c., rather the neo classical movement and the romantic movement were the dominant ideologies in Europe and the northern sates - accordingly scholars in Britain tended to cling to theosophy instead of tent revivalism.  I have no issue with the fact that the scholars of the 19th c. tended to belong to societies and have weird beliefs - it was fashionable at the time.  Look at our founding fathers and how they were into different "enlightenment" movements.

I suppose your argument is that since these scholars were not KJB fundamentalists they were evil and their products evil and their intent evil - I wish we had some other argument rather than fundamentalist Christianity versus the world.

What culture in your opinion is "pure" and "unadulterated" versus culture that is "sullied"?  Using what criteria do you judge?
What knowledge is "pure" and what is "impure".

These types of critics do not work with history.  Again it's not as simple as whether they believed in some modern precept NWO or not, etc.

So if all knowledge that fails the KJB test is bunk, from where and what is true in your opinion.  And the text of the KJB is handed down by the same scholarly elites as the NT lexicon.

So, no, I don't agree with you and you haven't convinced me that you know what your talking about here except that your argument is mostly a Christian fundamentalist argument applied retroactively to historical people.  If you had some real proof and examples, I would be more convinced.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2009, 11:27:27 pm »
Dodgson “had been his friend, ridiculer, defender in the press, and who had in the end made the Liddell name more famous than royal visits, social pretension, or even the celebrated Greek-English Lexicon” (Thomas, p. 353).

  “Dodgson had been a profoundly disturbed personality,” all must conclude (Thomas, pp. 355, 363).

I googled and googled booked these quotes and they simply do not exist.  I was not able to find a book by a Thomas Liddell about his "father".

The wiki entry on Henry Liddell does not list a son named Thomas at all:

Quote
Marriage and children
    * Edward Henry Liddell (6 September 1847 – 14 June 1911).
    * Lorina Charlotte Liddell (11 May 1849 – 29 October 1942).
    * James Arthur Charles Liddell (28 December 1850 – 27 November 1853).
    * Alice Pleasance Liddell (4 May 1852 – 16 November 1934), for whom the children's classic Alice's Adventures in Wonderland was originally told.
    * Edith Mary Liddell (Spring, 1854 – 26 June 1876).
    * Rhoda Caroline Anne Liddell (1859 – 19 May 1949).
    * Albert Edward Arthur Liddell (1863 – 28 May 1863).
    * Violet Constance Liddell (10 March 1864 – 9 December 1927).
    * Sir Frederick Francis Liddell (7 June 1865 – 19 March 1950): First Parliamentary Counsel and Ecclesiastical Commissioner.
    * Lionel Charles Liddell (22 May 1868 – 21 March 1942).

So I googled and I do not "know what I need to know".

Are you making these sources up?  Can you provide more information to back up your claims?

There is no FACTUAL EVIDENCE that "pedophile" was the reason that Lewis Carroll and the Liddells had a falling out.

Sources? Links? Truth?  What the hey!

Here is a biography about Liddell written in 1899:http://books.google.com/books?id=3AFDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA253&dq=Henry+George+Liddell&output=text#c_top

Quote
Dean will perhaps surprise many who dealt with him only in official relations.

The home life, as recalled by those who knew it best, was a very simple and happy one. He tried to be with his children as much as was possible amid the business of the Term, and of an evening was accustomed to hasten up to the drawing-room as soon as dinner (not so late then as now) was ended, that they might have their hour's reading before bed-time came between 8 and 9. He shared their enjoyment of good tales of adventure, and some favourite books he read over two or three times to different detachments of his children. The first book of his choice was The Children of the New Forest; and as soon as they were old enough to appreciate Scott he would read some of the Waverley novels, selecting Ivanhoe to begin with, and then his own special favourites, The Antiquary and Old Mortality. He was intensely fond of Scott, both of his novels and of his poetry; the ' swing' of the verses had a peculiar charm for him; and the listeners learnt to share his taste. Then, after the children had gone to bed, he was accustomed to work for an hour or more, correcting the Lexicon ; and when they grew older, and sat up till a later hour, he would delight in listening to their music as he went on uninterruptedly with his work.

His children cherish with loving remembrance those early days. However pressing the calls upon his time might be, he still found leisure to be with them during some part of every day. Their firstthought, when family prayers were over in the morning, was to arrange the hour for a ride with him, which generally they took in turns. They consulted the Letts's diary which many will remember hanging by his fireplace in the study, and found there a list of his engagements for the day; and according to these the time for the ride was fixed. On Mondays, when the Hebdomadal Council always met at one o'clock, a morning hour was necessarily chosen, involving the additional pleasure of a respite from lessons. The high ground about Bagley Wood and Foxcombe, or the forest glades of Wytham Park, were their usual resort. And as they rode, their father taught them to know the different forest trees, and to notice the clouds and shadows and all the beauties of nature, or would tell them tales from history, or talk of the books he was reading aloud to them; and, as they grew older, would discuss various questions of the day.

In holiday time he was able to be much more with his children, and shared in all their interests. After Christmas Day (on which festival it is the Dean's duty to preach in the Cathedral at Christ Church) the whole family were accustomed, so long as his father was alive, to go down to the grand-parents' home at Charlton Kings; and then would come all sorts of Christmas amusements, and the Dean would help to prepare charades and compose parts for them to act. He was always expected to enter fully into their pastimes, and nothing was complete without his co-operation and approval.(page 250-1)

I'm not finding any of your other sources either. 

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2009, 12:02:52 am »
I googled and googled booked these quotes and they simply do not exist.  I was not able to find a book by a Thomas Liddell about his "father".

The wiki entry on Henry Liddell does not list a son named Thomas at all:

So I googled and I do not "know what I need to know".

Are you making these sources up?  Can you provide more information to back up your claims?

There is no FACTUAL EVIDENCE that "pedophile" was the reason that Lewis Carroll and the Liddells had a falling out.

Sources? Links? Truth?  What the hey!

Here is a biography about Liddell written in 1899:http://books.google.com/books?id=3AFDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA253&dq=Henry+George+Liddell&output=text#c_top

I'm not finding any of your other sources either. 


My bad, sorry, it was Donald Thomas, Lewis Carroll,  http://www.acampbell.ukfsn.org/bookreviews/r/thomas2.html

The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline Edgar

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2009, 12:15:29 am »
I googled and googled booked these quotes and they simply do not exist.  I was not able to find a book by a Thomas Liddell about his "father".

The wiki entry on Henry Liddell does not list a son named Thomas at all:

So I googled and I do not "know what I need to know".

Are you making these sources up?  Can you provide more information to back up your claims?

There is no FACTUAL EVIDENCE that "pedophile" was the reason that Lewis Carroll and the Liddells had a falling out.

Sources? Links? Truth?  What the hey!

Here is a biography about Liddell written in 1899:http://books.google.com/books?id=3AFDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA253&dq=Henry+George+Liddell&output=text#c_top

I'm not finding any of your other sources either. 


Look, I not trying to tie this to a religious battle. I think there is so much information on this that is objective on the pedophile stuff I am surprise you are making such an issue about it. Obviously someone has push a button or two on the King James Only battle that has you upset.
But just look at the Cecil Rhodes connection and you start see the depth of how all the perversion versions, lexicons, dictionaries, and concordances coincide with the New World Order.
Then you add the prepubescent girls and the red flags start to rise.
So if you can get off the Marist and King James Only stuff I think you can find something here.
No Offense.
The King James Bible is not a version. It is the Bible.
Psalms 119:140  Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Offline φυδγε

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Re: Alice: Adventures in Wonderland [Lewis Caroll guide to paedophilia]
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2009, 12:22:30 am »
Look, I not trying to tie this to a religious battle. I think there is so much information on this that is objective on the pedophile stuff I am surprise you are making such an issue about it. Obviously someone has push a button or two on the King James Only battle that has you upset.
But just look at the Cecil Rhodes connection and you start see the depth of how all the perversion versions, lexicons, dictionaries, and concordances coincide with the New World Order.
Then you add the prepubescent girls and the red flags start to rise.
So if you can get off the Marist and King James Only stuff I think you can find something here.
No Offense.


Cool, thanks for clearing up the source and I'll try to take your advice and look more into these issues.