Attention both libertarians and progressives: Obamacare is NOT single-payer!

Author Topic: Attention both libertarians and progressives: Obamacare is NOT single-payer!  (Read 19580 times)

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Offline Geolibertarian

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Dems Push Pelosi for Single-Payer Health Care After AHCA Fails (People said back as they passed Obamacare that they always wanted single payer and created a disaster so the could later get just that.)

People also said that Obamacare was written by private insurance companies in order to inflate their already astronomical profits.

Now we're supposed to believe that the real reason they wrote it was to compel the government to institute a health care system that, by its very nature, eliminates the need for private health insurance?

In other words, we're actually supposed to believe that these insurance companies are part of an evil conspiracy to put themselves out of business?

That is so ridiculous on its face that I'm amazed so many people accept it as divine gospel without even questioning it.

Has it occurred to you that Wall Street Democrats were merely telling their gullible supporters what they wanted to hear when they said Obamacare was a step "towards" single-payer, lest millions of the moderate leftists who supported single-payer figured out (before Obamacare had a chance to pass) that it was actually a step in the opposite direction -- and consequently embarrass Obama by attacking him politically from his left?
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline jofortruth

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Yeah, its hard to tell what is true when you have such lowlife liars in DC and in the media. Then add to that how the insane globalists play both sides on every issue and the whole thing is insane!

I say purge them all and start over, and start putting the ringleaders in prison. Sick of liars, deceivers, babies, punks, spineless followers, ignoramuses who claim to be experts and leaders. You are all a joke!

 >:(

Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

The Great Deception - Forum/Library - My Research
http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Deception/index.php?showforum=110

Offline Satyagraha

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Agreed! Purge away.
And  the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, 
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,  ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:40

Offline jofortruth

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PELOSI CLASHES WITH CONSTITUENTS: ‘DO YOU WANT TO LISTEN OR JUST SPEAK?’

https://www.infowars.com/pelosi-clashes-with-constituents-do-you-want-to-listen-or-just-speak/


Quote
Appearing with Congresswoman Jackie Speier, Pelosi was confronted by activists with Indivisible, a group that has been turning out left-wing citizens largely at Republican town hall meetings across the country.

---

When Pelosi told the group that she has supported a single-payer health scheme for 30 years, shouts and jeers erupted.
Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

The Great Deception - Forum/Library - My Research
http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Deception/index.php?showforum=110

Offline Geolibertarian

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PELOSI CLASHES WITH CONSTITUENTS: ‘DO YOU WANT TO LISTEN OR JUST SPEAK?’

Of course. They figured out she's a puppet of Wall Street just like Obama and Hillary, and that Obamacare was designed not to remove private insurance companies from the health care equation (as single payer would do), but to further entrench them.

As I stated previously, Mike Rivero and Jeff Rense -- both of whom supported Donald Trump for the entire 2016 campaign season -- openly promote single-payer health insurance as being far preferable to Obamacare and to the price-gouging system we had immediately prior to Obamacare.

Does that mean we're supposed to arrogantly and mindlessly accuse both of those gentlemen of being freedom-hating "socialists" who (a) live in their "mom's basement" and (b) want America to suffer the same economic fate as Venezuela?

Whatever happened to not being intellectual slaves to the microscopic confines of binary, either/or "paradigms"?
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline TahoeBlue

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Just a thought ... Who would want to insure people that the MIC govt was purposely giving expensive  and terrible terminal illnesses ?
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Geolibertarian

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House GOP health plan is a re-branded and far meaner version of the ACA
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2017, 04:47:51 AM »
I'm glad the so-called American Health Care Act failed to pass, and here's why...

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2017/march/doctors-group-house-gop-health-plan-is-a-re-branded-and-far-meaner-version-of-the-ac

Doctors group: House GOP health plan is a re-branded and far meaner version of the ACA

The ‘American Health Care Act’ perpetuates the basic structure of the Affordable Care Act, including the subsidization of the private health insurance industry, while cutting benefits to the poor and middle class, and giving hundreds of billions in tax breaks to the rich

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, March 8, 2017

Physicians for a National Health Program decries the recently released Republican Obamacare replacement bill, the “American Health Care Act” (AHCA). That plan would constitute a major backward step in health policy, compounding the problems of uninsurance and underinsurance while handing over hundreds of billions of dollars to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans.

Proposed as a replacement of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), the AHCA would maintain its basic structure. The bill would:

• Continue to channel billions of taxpayer dollars through wasteful private insurers;
   
• Sharply reduce the ACA’s subsidies (or “tax credits”) available to lower-income persons, particularly older adults, to purchase coverage;

• End the ACA’s cost-sharing subsidies for copayments and deductibles, increasing the cost of care for those with chronic medical conditions;
     
• Replace the ACA’s “individual mandate” penalty on the uninsured with a 30 percent surcharge on insurance premiums for those who experienced a lapse in insurance coverage;

• Slash federal funding for the Medicaid expansion beginning in 2020, and move towards a “per capita” cap on Medicaid spending that would squeeze state Medicaid budgets and push millions of enrollees out of the program;

• Increase the tax-favored status of Health Savings Accounts, which mostly benefit people in high income brackets;

• Reduce taxes on pharmaceutical, medical device and health insurance companies;

• Offer tax reductions totaling $274.6 billion over 10 years to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans.

These and other provisions would take the nation in the wrong direction. Even with the ACA in place, 29 million remained uninsured in 2015; the ACHA would only push that number higher. And today, even many Americans with coverage face bankrupting medical bills for copayments, deductibles and uncovered services. By lowering the standards of private insurance plans and ending cost sharing subsidies, the ACHA would only intensify the problem of “underinsurance.”

The AHCA would replace the ACA with a worse, more regressive version of the original bill. This is not what Americans want or need. PNHP instead urges Congress to replace the ACA with a single-payer national health care program. Unlike the ACA or the AHCA, single-payer, Medicare for All reform could effectively control costs while creating a right to high-quality health care for everyone in America.

A more detailed, point-by-point summary of the contents of the GOP House bill, prepared by Drs. Steffie Woolhandler and David Himmelstein, is available here.

Physicians for a National Health Program (www.pnhp.org) is a nonprofit research and education organization of more than 20,000 doctors who support a single-payer national health program. It was founded in 1986.
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline notravelingfellows

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Berthed and stamped No. *************

Offline EvadingGrid

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Want to know a BiG Secret ?

Do some easy research, look for figures for HealthCare as a percentage of GDP - and Life Expectancy for countries



“Hey, I’m a nationalist and a globalist”
-- Donald Trump

Article : "A Limited Hangout Operation ?"

Offline notravelingfellows

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Want to know a BiG Secret ?

Do some easy research, look for figures for HealthCare as a percentage of GDP - and Life Expectancy for countries

 8)
Berthed and stamped No. *************

Offline Geolibertarian

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Want to know a BiG Secret ?

Do some easy research, look for figures for HealthCare as a percentage of GDP - and Life Expectancy for countries

Why do research when one can simply wax hysterical about Venezuela?

Didn't you know that Canada is a communist hell-hole just like Venezuela is?

I was surprised, too, but the person who told me this was yelling, screaming and frothing at the mouth when he said it, so it must be true.

I also learned from him that the more than 20,000 doctors who make up Physicians for a National Health Program are all a bunch of "losers" who live in (you guessed it) "their mom's basement."
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline EvadingGrid

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When some body has actually looked at the figures, let me know.

I'm with Pontius Pilate on this one

* cat  washes paws

“Hey, I’m a nationalist and a globalist”
-- Donald Trump

Article : "A Limited Hangout Operation ?"

Offline EvadingGrid

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Want to know a BiG Secret ?

Do some easy research, look for figures for HealthCare as a percentage of GDP - and Life Expectancy for Countries


“Hey, I’m a nationalist and a globalist”
-- Donald Trump

Article : "A Limited Hangout Operation ?"

Offline Geolibertarian

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Well, well, isn't this just special?
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2017, 02:26:24 PM »
Medicare is little more than Medicaid for old people. Yet right-wing Republicans are literally obsessed with gutting the latter while winking and looking the other way at the former. Why is that? Not because they love "freedom" and "Americana" so much, nor because Medicare is any less of a transfer payment (i.e. "redistribution of wealth") than Medicaid is, but merely because "seniors" are a much more powerful voting bloc than poor people are. The hypocrisy that surrounds this issue never ceases to amaze me.

----------------------------------------------

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/politics/senate-health-care-bill.html

Senate Health Care Bill Includes Deep Cuts to Medicaid

By ROBERT PEAR and THOMAS KAPLAN
The New York Times
June 22, 2017

WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans, who have promised a repeal of the Affordable Care Act for seven years, took a major step on Thursday toward that goal, unveiling a bill to cut Medicaid deeply and end the health law’s mandate that most Americans have health insurance.

The 142-page bill would create a new system of federal tax credits to help people buy health insurance, while offering states the ability to drop many of the benefits required by the Affordable Care Act, like maternity care, emergency services and mental health treatment.

The Senate bill — once promised as a top-to-bottom revamp of the health bill passed by the House last month — instead maintains its structure, with modest adjustments. The Senate version is, in some respects, more moderate than the House bill, offering more financial assistance to some lower-income people to help them defray the rapidly rising cost of private health insurance.

But the Senate measure, like the House bill, would phase out the extra money that the federal government has provided to states as an incentive to expand eligibility for Medicaid. And like the House measure, it would put the entire Medicaid program on a budget, ending the open-ended entitlement that now exists.

[Continued...]

----------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, Israel's war machine continues to receive billions in U.S. taxpayer-financed welfare (er, beg pardon, "aid") every single year:

https://www.infowars.com/why-are-we-sending-38-billion-to-rich-and-powerful-israel/



If the millions of working-aged Americans who live below the poverty line are supposed to rely upon "charity" when it comes to health care, then why isn't the Israeli government supposed to rely upon "charity" when it comes to weapons of war?
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Online chris jones

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 Rand Paul took a stand on this, AGAINST IT...
 I have had my beefs with this man but he is correct on this.

Offline TahoeBlue

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Rand Paul took a stand on this, AGAINST IT...
 I have had my beefs with this man but he is correct on this.

There is a MIC - Medical Industrial Complex .. and that includes the Insurance complex ( which is connected to the banks ( ie  and the FED) . This is the hidden taxation on the country ... Where does the money go ? Offshore most likely ... 

I don't know about a 1 dollar a day ( 300 million people only 300 million dollars ? no . So how many billion dollars for Healthcare?

150 billion ? thats five dollars a day !!!!  that's $1,825 a year !!!

 


http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/339123-rand-paul-insurance-should-be-available-for-1-a-day
Rand Paul: Insurance should be available for $1 a day

 By Max Greenwood  - 06/23/17 09:10 AM EDT
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline TahoeBlue

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in reference to the previous post ... here something completely insane ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2015/01/04/u-s-healthcare-spending-on-track-to-hit-10000-per-person-this-year/#77d441036dea
U.S. Healthcare Spending On Track To Hit $10,000 Per Person This Year
Jan 4, 2015

There's never a shortage of major healthcare policy events in any given calendar year ‒ and 2015 will be no exception. Here's a short list of some that are pending and noteworthy ‒ with a few predictions.

First up isn't a prediction as much as a major milestone that's reflective of escalating healthcare costs.

According to CMS (here) our National Healthcare Expenditure (NHE) is projected to hit $3.207 trillion this year.

The U.S. Population is currently hovering at around 320 million, so 2015 looks to be the first year healthcare spending will reach $10,000 per person. We may be "bending the cost growth curve," but the per capita amount continues to grow.

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Online chris jones

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Tahoe... now that is a fine comparison-            MIC...................Ya got that right, the medical industrial complex.
Bigpharma for another has its finger in this pie as well, though the MSM doesn`t mention this either.
TID BIT.
Celebrex 100 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $130.27
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.60
Percent markup: 21,712%
 
Claritin 10 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $215.17
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.71
Percent markup: 30,306%
 
Keflex 250 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $157.39
Cost of general active ingredients: $1.88
Percent markup: 8,372%

I get it, that doesn`t include the production costs, nor research, OK so add on the 100% as to the ingrediant costs,
is that fair , or go as high as a 200%  or 300% over the costs of product..
  Keflex for example is $157.39 per 100, ingrediants costs are $1.88, cost at a 300% markup for production & distribution with a 400% markup would be about 8 or 9 bucks vs $157.00.
  Hell bells, they could go as up to a 500% to 700% markup and we would get a decent price.
  Whats your take, what am I missing here.?  The AMA & FDA, do they truly work for the people.

Offline TahoeBlue

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yes the numbers are staggering ,,, It is a national ripoff of the highest order ...
Many of these corps are foreign so the profits go off shore ... continually draining the country . And the feds do nothing and say nothing.
So it was interesting what Rand Paul said , but it was so extreme , no one will take him seriously.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline egypt

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People would be so shocked at the really great, affordable health care they would recieve if insurance didn't run the show.  It would be the best health care in the world -- again.

So go Rand Paul, go!  Repeal.  Repeal.  Do not replace.

love, e

Offline TahoeBlue

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Unfortunately .... however bad the bill is .... if the replicants don't pass this pile of ,,,,,, then there will be a loss of momentum ...
and the swamp will be winning ...  It just shows you how screwed up the gop really is ... they ought to rename themselves  the RINO Party ...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Geolibertarian

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If single-payer health insurance (aka Medicare-for-all)  is -- as we're so often instructed to believe -- part of an evil communist conspiracy to turn America into "Venezuela," then why are so many Democratic politicians hostile to it?

-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7fVOSgh1eI (Democratic Leader Caught Bragging About Killing Single Payer)

-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzjFfOFnDwg (Democratic Leader Literally Squirms When Asked About Single Payer)

-- http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/obama_to_single_paye.php

Or are we not supposed to ask that question in the first place, lest the controlled-opposition debate on this issue be seen for what it is?
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline EvadingGrid

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Just a couple of little facts

The amount of money spent has no correlation to life expectancy.
Example USA sending v GB spending as a % of GDP.

Life expectancy, and number of doctors per patient is more or less identical in Great Britain as the USA.

Socialist Medicine is superior to Capitalist Insurance Medicine, the figs show that....

Now, just because you've been told otherwise, don't flame me for telling you.


They Lied.
The all lied.
Then the lied some more.




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Online chris jones

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Observation:staticis com. total number of working class USA,
Apr 2017: 205,354,000 (+ more)  What`s you take on this?
Updated: May 24, 2017

For 3 dollars per day each worker would pay:this would be 615,000,000 million per day.
Per month the total would be/  $1,845,000,0000 close to 2 billion.
per year the total aproxximate                       ..$55,450,000,000 fifty five Billion 450,million.
[/u]
For the price of a beer each day, 3 bucks for every working citizen....about $ 90 a month would come out to about $50.450,000,000.. a year...

Thats a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$,sure there are expensive treatments, then there are treatments, visits etc that are basically bullShit to suck up the bucks, whatever the actual case may be can this be a starting point. I have tried to find the daily, monthy, yearly medical expenses USA,,ZIP, nothing I can dig up.
  My question is necessary medical treatmment yearly is WHAT -USA, is it is over 55,5 billion a year.
Big pharma pricing is integral in all of this along with the AMA, Ins co. costs etc. I`m no rocket scientist but this seems to me it should be looked into.
 Does each state use over a billion  a month on health care. ANYBODY know the
                                                                                                                           deal????????????????????
                     I wish I didn`t smell a rat in the medical Industrial complex.