TO F LY OLD GLORY OR THE SKULL AND BONES !

[chris jones]

The Elite criminal element is in control of this nation. This in itself is not news to the contributors to this site.
The deceptions and lies that have been spoon fed to the public by controlled and censored news, is as ancient as human nature itself.
By word of mouth or be it the written word.

I grow weary repeating the fact the our Mr.Powell has openly, and publicaly admited that our attack on a soveriegn nation was based on a lie and deception. The front man himself, without fear stated these facts to the public. It was another of the Elites smoke screens to invade Iraq. Their abiltiy to act so very sincere and committted as they decieve us is beyond my comprehension. This in itself is treasononous, yet nothing has been done by our congress, or for that matter any other departement of the ol Gov.
Hundreds of thousands have died, many of them innocents, infants , children , woman. Yet our congress ingnores this fact.
You will not find these facts in our history books to be printed, they exist only in the hearts of honest men,true patriotic Americans who choose the constitution over the deceptions. Years ago hypocrits with shame, betrayers were recognized, today among our regime it is a symbol of power. If our constitution was adhered to these men in "total" would be in chains awaiting a swift trial for their treason, mass murder, crimes against humanity,usurping power over the people, and attempting to create a fascist state.
Years ago,they would have been hung. We do not fly the stars and bars as we  invade and conquer, in reality it is the skull and bones.
Shamefully all the innocents veiw after the blanket bombing is Ol' Glory flying. The door to freedom and libery was opened by our founding fathers, (our Const., Bill of Rights), this regime has closed it. There is no glory in war, there is only death and destruction. For the makers of war,are riches and power beyond our imagination. The thread of humanity does not exist in their makeup as it would be considered a weakness,, to consider them human beings would be an insult to humanity.

[Gabriel A King]

  The  "Skull & Bones"  is an appropriate emblem for the elites.  It is tied to piracy and mutiny in it's meaning.  And it is the Skull & Bones and those of their ilk who have hijacked America, and other nations.  It also relates to death in symbolism, no surprise there, as the New World Order leaves a trail of bodies to identify their handiwork wherever they go. 
  But remember!  Most Americans are still brainwashed into believing that there is still some shred of freedom and decency left in this country.  When in actuality, we have been systematically poisoned from within by corruption and subversion.  No matter what occurs, however vile or shocking, Americans have been desensitized beyond the point of recognition.  And the "crop" of children being raised in this generation, are being brainwashed from birth to accept an evil totalitarian police state as acceptable.   

[Garythemessage]

I totally agree and will go one step further.  Being Christian, I'd like to add that God is a God of life.  The Adversary is a god of death and wants only to destroy mankind.

God = Creator and Sustainer of Life.
Lucifer = Destroyer and Bringer of Death.

Know your enemies.  Anyone who brings about death and destruction, anyone who encourages atrocity, these fruits can easily be traced back to the proper tree.

[1776blues]

The Elite criminal element is in control of this nation. This in itself is not news to the contributors to this site.
The deceptions and lies that have been spoon fed to the public by controlled and censored news, is as ancient as human nature itself.
By word of mouth or be it the written word.

I grow weary repeating the fact the our Mr.Powell has openly, and publicaly admited that our attack on a soveriegn nation was based on a lie and deception. The front man himself, without fear stated these facts to the public. It was another of the Elites smoke screens to invade Iraq. Their abiltiy to act so very sincere and committted as they decieve us is beyond my comprehension. This in itself is treasononous, yet nothing has been done by our congress, or for that matter any other departement of the ol Gov.
Hundreds of thousands have died, many of them innocents, infants , children , woman. Yet our congress ingnores this fact.
You will not find these facts in our history books to be printed, they exist only in the hearts of honest men,true patriotic Americans who choose the constitution over the deceptions. Years ago hypocrits with shame, betrayers were recognized, today among our regime it is a symbol of power. If our constitution was adhered to these men in "total" would be in chains awaiting a swift trial for their treason, mass murder, crimes against humanity,usurping power over the people, and attempting to create a fascist state.
Years ago,they would have been hung. We do not fly the stars and bars as we  invade and conquer, in reality it is the skull and bones.
Shamefully all the innocents veiw after the blanket bombing is Ol' Glory flying. The door to freedom and libery was opened by our founding fathers, (our Const., Bill of Rights), this regime has closed it. There is no glory in war, there is only death and destruction. For the makers of war,are riches and power beyond our imagination. The thread of humanity does not exist in their makeup as it would be considered a weakness,, to consider them human beings would be an insult to humanity.

Thanks for the excellent and well put post. Though we all know this, it is still ncie to read as I believe they give us hope that one day soon I hope all Americans will see this and say enough and stop burying their heads in the sand.

[jbrid1138]

The very idea of something like this // The Pirate Flag jumps (comes waving itself) to mind.

And is there truly anyone that needs to have that flag explained to them?  I would hope not.

[1776blues]

The very idea of something like this // The Pirate Flag jumps (comes waving itself) to mind.

And is there truly anyone that needs to have that flag explained to them?  I would hope not.

Amen and so fitting, they are modern day pirates and we need to sink their ships!

[chris jones]

Only when the reality of this abomination enters the home of the silent majority will they open their eyes.
Only when the smell of death permeates the air, when the bodies of infants are rotting and caked in blood, when the children who were playing yesterday, today  are stacked in piles piece by piece. When your dear friend had the side of his face shot off,and you hear the mortars whistling as they approach you. The thumping explosion becomes louder as they walk them into your position. And its name is war and death. Do this and wittiness this as the profiteers count their money.
Wiggle the flag, pay your taxes, keep your opinions to yourself, wave at the security enforcing the curfews, cheer for the politicians as they drive by in their limos and escorts. Are you with them or against them.?? REMEMBER THOSE WORDS OF OUR LEADER, OUR COMMANDER AND CHIEF, "EITHER YOUR WITH US OR AGAISNT US"

[trixi1]

The very idea of something like this // The Pirate Flag jumps (comes waving itself) to mind.

And is there truly anyone that needs to have that flag explained to them?  I would hope not.

I think it needs to be spelled out for the ignorant ones or ones who want to deny reality.

This flag is their TRUE representation -- meaning STEALING, PILLAGING, RAPING, MURDERING, AND PROFITING from what DOESN'T BELONG TO THEM.

[jbrid1138]

-- WHEN IT COMES TO THIS (??)


-- OR THAT (??) // THE CHOICE IS CLEAR

[jbrid1138]

Here's an image that purports to capture all the flags of the world // notice please than Skull & Bones is NOT among the group -- and we should all make damn sure we keep it that way.


Each one of our individual nations should be PROUD of their respective flag for all the reasons that make them the nation they are.  I wanted to say that in view of the above poster and his expressed concerns and to remind everyone that this particular thread we are reading right now is targeted towards "Old Glory", which translates (in my head) as the flag of the USA   

[chris jones]

Hi Nota shill.  Good write in!!!

How true!!! From the time a child born in the states and is capable of clear vision, a flag,yes a flag of his country will be paraded before him. When he enters his classroom the flag is flying, it is imprinted in his memory system, then the rhetoric of freedom and liberty are spoon fed. Once long ago these facts were true, but the time has come for the American public to examine traditions and constitutional law of old, and to think, are they upheld by our elected officials.I could not care less if we had a flag, we should be flying the constitution and bill of rights, declaration of independence.
The revolutionaries needed a standard, banner or call it flag to distinguish intent, liberty from the insanity of King George and his corporate pirates. It was a statement of Independence, one state one star, I believe it was originally 13 states.My point, nothing wrong with having a flag, simply to define the nation.
Definition is not worship, the symbolism in bred into our society has given the stars and bars a greater greater definition, an illusion. Time for a reality check.
Men did not die for the flag, they died for freedom, liberty and justice.
They ( our forefathers)would not have gone and attacked Iran illegally, Bush and all of his team would have been hung publicly, all profiteers would have their trillions confiscated.
Now we are enslaved by laws created by criminals, our constitution is tread on, treason is ramp-id, deceptions are ignored, hundred of thousands of innocents have been killed while old glory flies overhead. Its genocide and we know it, get out Ole jolly, the skull and bones, for our concept and origins of this flag of ours is used to dominate our emotions and thought. A few hundred years back you have had an argument on your hands.
If any man of soul and conscience in uniform is forced to kill to survive for the sake of war profiteers, he is scared for life. The little flag on his shirt will not save him, and has become blemished those who have fought to make this nation free.
Make no mistake about it (our founding fathers)  were revolutionaries, with souls. We took our freedoms for granted and so they took our freedom.
Todays rhetoric would be Freedom fighters.
We took our freedoms for granted and so they took our freedom and molded our minds. Sorry to be so long winded.

[chris jones]

Hi Jaybird.

I agree , if a country is NATIOANLY FREE, ABOUNDS WITH INTEGRITY, EXPOUNDS INTELLIGENCE AND FAIRNESS TO ITS NEIGHBORS AND GLOBALY. BE PROUD, WAVE THE FLAG.
HOWEVER, AFTER THE ABOMINATION IN VIETNAM, 4 MILLION INNOCENTS KILLED, 60,000 TROOPERS, THIS GIVES ME PAUSE, why, OUR FLAG WAS WAVING OVERHEAD. OR THE INNOCENTS IN IRAQ.(DECEPTIONS)
YUP WE SHOULD BE PROUD, OF OUR BEGGGINNINGS NOT THE WAY IT ENDED UP. I AM PROUD OF THE COURAGE AND INTEGRITY OF THOSE WHO BEGAN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION, THOSE WHO WROTE OUR CONSTITUTION, BUT I AM NOT PROUD OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THIS LAND. CALL IT DR. JECKLE AND MR. HYDE IF YOU LIKE BUT AMERICA HAS BEEN TRANSFORMED BY THIS GANG OF PROFIT SEEKING PARASITES, AND TO MY THINKING THEY HAVE USED OUR FLAG AND OUR PATRIOTISM TO UNFOLD THEIR DREAM OF DOMINANCE.
THE DAY WE RID OURSELFS OF THESE FAKES AND CHARLETONS,THE DAY  WE CLEAN HOUSE AND PERFORM THE NECESSARY ACT OF REDEMPTIOM, I WILL CARRY THE FLAG DOWN MAIN STREET IN ANY CITY IN THE STATES.
DOWN THROUGH THE CENTER OF NEW YORK TO W.D.C.
THIS FLAG OF OURS ONCE REPRESENTED FREEDOM,LIBERTY, AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. NOW IT IS USED AS A TOOL OF THE ELITE, I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THIS, IT IS A CLEVER MANIPULATION OF THOSE WHO CAN NOT ACCEPT WHAT THIS GOVERNMENT HAS COMMITED USING THIS FLAG ANTIQUATED SYMBOL FOR MANIPULATION OF THE MASSES, LINE THEIR POCKETS AND FUEL THEIR POWER.
cj

[Patrick Henry]

I prefer "don't tread on me"

[jbrid1138]

Hi guys.  A nice day is wished for each of you, even those that politely disagree on the subject of a particular colored cloth (flag).  My goodness the passion is there, no question about that -- and it is (a flag) nothing more than a piece of cloth, an emblyn, a representation // but (to me) the flag of my country is a bit more than that.  Of course all you say has merit, I'm not trying to set in motion any argument as regards my country being better (or worse) -- better not go down that road huh  than the country you personally call home.  I believe each of us should (to what degree that might be or what extent that might take -- ?? -- is entirely an individual choice) but to me the flag represents the good that 'SHOULD BE' in the land we choose to love. 

Let me repeat that -- 'represent the good that 'SHOULD BE'' in the land we choose to love.

A tool -- sure; one used to manipulate -- sure; but one that should also rightfully represent the good that is often times hidden and obscured among the lies and evil that men do.  That then becomes their flag -- mine remains (my choice, I know) an example that represents the good that I want it to be. 

I know that in our early history the flag of the United States was saluted with a hand salute much like the hand salute (straight arm salute) given in Nazi Germany.  Why?  Because that's what the folks that truly represented us (and sadly continue to represent and direct us) as a nation wanted.



     

[chris jones]

Hi J.

Kind of you to be so polite, I know exactly how you feel and I respect that.
Tis the goverment who has abused our flag, the manipulators, the profiteers.
An image of Old Glory flying over the corpses of the innocents in Iraq, Afganhanistan, Vietnam, give me pause as i mentioned before. We, here on board this site know the value of the flag, don't misunderstand, however its original concept has been used as a base of control for the mind molded.
I would personelly find it difficult to explain to the family of victims of the millions killed the meaning of our flag. Its very conception being righteous, its ending being obnoxious, no fault of the flag, only of the people who have abused its orignal glory to decieve a nation.
As I said, redemption, chains for the regime, and Ill march the flag across America till my heart stops beating. Yes the flag means a great deal to me that is of couse why i resent it being abused and carried among the murdered innocents, so would our forefathers Gabe. The flag wigglers were conditioned, we escaped the bubble, we have free thought, and have peered into the looking glasss of reality. In short and with all respect, I detest the form of manipulation in which our flag has been used.

[jbrid1138]

Thank you, sir, for your follow up -- you expressed the idea I struggle with, and did so quite well, I might add.  Yes, I too find disgust and hatred (even) for those that would abuse the flag of any nation -- at the same time I am not going to lose perspective and start hating the object (the tool) that has befallen manipulation by the evil among us -- it's not the tool I hate, it's the ones hiding behind it and spouting their corrupted twisted ideology that I hate.  The flag is a representation that sadly has to stand there and take it, regardless of how it is represented. 

It's like a good decent American citizen traveling overseas (Germany, used only as an example of what I mean) -- that good decent American citizen represents all kinds of things in the minds of those that encounter the traveller -- some seeing him/her only in the way that they have come to see ALL Americans (the good, the bad, the ugly) // some aren't that all encompassing and see only the ugly.  Yet that single person oftentimes than not represents (in the minds of those doing the judging) as a representation of the whole.  Which isn't right, definitely wrong -- and yet happens anyway.  People are people and I don't believe we (people) can do much to really change that simple fault in us.

If I may continue to color inside the box in this regard -- Muslims.  Because of what our government has led us to believe (9/11 and forward) Muslims are our enemy.  Of course they are not, and at the same time the issues are purposefully distorted in the idea that al-Qaeda is the bad guy in all of this (not too many al-Qaeda that are Catholics, not too many that are Pentecost either) -- if you get my drift here.  People are people and are quick to judge another based upon preconceptions of the whole.  Not good that we do that.

And then there is GWB (coloring outside that box for a moment) who considers our US Constitution as nothing more than a goddamn piece of paper -- His words.  His actions have spoken LOUDLY in this regard.  And that ought to tell you folks one hell of a lot about the ones (him and his inner circle) that allegedly stand in place to lead us here in this land (USA).  Definitely the wrong attitude, and in his indivdual case -- I would hope the world does not judge us Americans as having the same ideals as this man.  For he does not represent me -- of course he would be first to say he does -- but he does not.

A flag is a piece of cloth -- yes, it's truly nothing more.  What it represents is in the eye of the beholder is what must be understood --To me it represents a Republic (for which it stands) -- and those words that accompany a Pledge to our flag -- 'with liberty and justice for all'.  Sadly, some would have us believe (do) otherwise      

Vote RON PAUL 2008 and help us restore our country to what our founding fathers intended, flag and all. 

[Gabriel A King]

  Upon second thought, we should just change the American stars and stripes to the NWO Skull & Bones.  Cause that's basically where this country is now, whether anyone realizes it or not.  Americans seem content in their delusions, more interested in tabloid media and sporting events like the world series, than in the demise of freedom or a responsibility in governing themselves.
  Some say  "ignorance is bliss".  I think ignorance is the most dangerous thing on the planet.

[jbrid1138]

Hi GAK -- nice to see you still kicking (see you've switched from kicking the dog however to now kicking 'our flag') // for shame  --   

I know your comment was meant solely for exchange of thought -- and everyone of course is entitled to their opinion -- but I've heard (read to be more percise) you defend our country in the past and I suspect this follow up by you now is meant as (-- what's that word I'm looking for here?) // 

When something is said BUT they really meant the opposite -- what is that called?  I've flamed out mentally, I can't think this morning.  Which makes me question if I am really ever thinking when I think I'm thinking 

Okay, enough of these little smiley faces -- You are certainly free to feel as you do // Just as long as you don't try and force me to think that the Skull & Bones is truly the flag we should all worship // It stands for everthing we don't agree with, in my way of 'thinking' // but there I go again -- thinking.  Smile.

[chris jones]

Hi J.

The word you may be looking for is that it is a shame that the American flag, the symbol of freedom and justice for all, is flying high over the corpses of innocent dead. What i'm saying is not against the country it is agaisnt the leadership, the parasites who use our symbol of freedom to kill and destroy.

Trust me my friend, i do not advocate the skull and bones, I am stating a truth, they control the govermnment, the banner of this nation is the stars and bars therfor they use our standard, do they not. they use our inbred patriotic putty, and the flag is the symbol of patriotism. they are using it, is what I am attemtping to say.

If were not American, and not educated, your village was wiped out and your family, and what did you behold after the assault, the stars aND BARS. would you by any chance form an oppinion of the banner flying.... I do not want to create an issue over this, but please understand, the flag we hold dearly is in our heart, not controlled by the parasites, or brain numbed by their rhetoric.
In plain & simpley put, it offends me to see our banner waved as if it represents the abomination. You are a patriot, i know that, the flag holds a diffrent meaning to you personelly, not to the millions who have been killed while it flys high.
These bags of shit running this country count on the fact that our banner is one of the keys to control. Nuttin against the falg itself. And absolutly nothing agasint our founding fathers or our Const.
Hope that we can put this issue to rest, for me, i will not hold the flag in my hand untill we are rid of the these bags of shit who suppposedly represent this nation. They have defamed our flag, and all it stood for.

[jbrid1138]

Hi J.

The word you may be looking for is that it is a shame that the American flag, the symbol of freedom and justice for all, is flying high over the corpses of innocent dead. What I'm saying is not against the country it is against the leadership, the parasites who use our symbol of freedom to kill and destroy.

Trust me my friend, i do not advocate the skull and bones, I am stating a truth, they control the government, the banner of this nation is the stars and bars therfor they use our standard, do they not. they use our inbred patriotic putty, and the flag is the symbol of patriotism. they are using it, is what I am attemtping to say.

If were not American, and not educated, your village was wiped out and your family, and what did you behold after the assault, the stars aND BARS. would you by any chance form an oppinion of the banner flying.... I do not want to create an issue over this, but please understand, the flag we hold dearly is in our heart, not controlled by the parasites, or brain numbed by their rhetoric.
In plain & simpley put, it offends me to see our banner waved as if it represents the abomination. You are a patriot, i know that, the flag holds a diffrent meaning to you personelly, not to the millions who have been killed while it flys high.
These bags of shit running this country count on the fact that our banner is one of the keys to control. Nuttin against the falg itself. And absolutly nothing agasint our founding fathers or our Const.
Hope that we can put this issue to rest, for me, i will not hold the flag in my hand untill we are rid of the these bags of shit who suppposedly represent this nation. They have defamed our flag, and all it stood for.

Okay CJ -- we're on the same side with this.  Need to write and tell you that because I feel you might be politely trying to tell me otherwise.  I certainly am in agreement with what you've said -- all of it.

The idea of our flag being 'desecrated' like this (that's a word that seems to fit nicely) can't be tolerated.  I don't agree with any of that crap the gangsters throw at us as a version of the truth // and yes they do, they are quick to hide behind our wonderful flag and use it to excite truly wonderful people (as they are) to war.  An unjust war.  I am reminded that right after 9/11 of all the US Flags that were proudly being displayed from buildings, automobile antennas, etc.  I still have a sticker on my office window from that time.  The smart guys that know how to excite us (as they did -- lies and all) were dead wrong in doing that -- and many have suffered (all sides) as a result of their twisted reasons for waving the flag in our faces.  We are proud people who hold to what we consider to be honesty and truthful and patriotic concerns -- BUT many have come across as a result as looking the fool in much of this.  We are not the fool BUT WE HAVE BEEN FOOLED for sure.

Fooled by the gangsters that are corrupt beyond corrupt that have nothing more than greed as their God.  The flag to them is a tool to be used to manipulate us, and nothing more.  To THEM the flag means nothing -- or they wouldn't have used it as they have done already and continue to do.   They use our flag as if it represents THEM and THEIR ideals //

Hell fire, THEY do not represent what I consider to be the ideals of the true United States of America.  They are gangsters, big time corrupt gangsters, only out for their own greed.  They throw everything they have at us (a flag is only one of many things they use) to get us to quietly cooperate; they lie, they manipulate, they kill innocents as if we were nothing more than insects.  They don't represent me -- I feel our flag IS OURS -- NOT THEIRS.

Sure it's wrong, what they are doing in this regard is wrong.  I want it stopped too, but I want them stopped even more so -- totally.  And I am sure you understand and can agree with my thoughts in this regard.  I would truly hope so, knowing that the printed word doesn't always present thought in its best.

Flag draped coffins; presenting a flag to the survivors of deceased warriors; and/or standing and saluting the flag as it passes in review -- those are emotional concepts; perhaps viewed by some among us as disrespecting the flag and for what it stands -- but those are not my desires (to discredit, to belittle, to desecrate) those are the manipulations of the psyops folks using the same as a tool of their trade.  They (and very skillfully so) play to our deepest emotions. 

[Gabriel A King]

Ah...........   
The old haloscan days!  When we could openly flail the  "F" word in an orgy of freedom of speech, and heap verbal napalm upon our enemies!!!  How I miss those glorious days!
Course, we don't wanna scare away any  "window shoppers" now, do we?

So I will now give the "Charlie Brown" dissenters disgruntled patriot commentary.

"Rats!  George Bush, you blockhead!"

[yiddishstripclubowner]

notashill,

good to see some Aussies on this site. I've been following this thread with interest, your passion/dispassion for the flag is interesting to me. I've often thought of flying the Eureka Stockade / Southern Cross flag just to piss people off, but it's interesting to see how broadly people interpret that. It's used by unionists, and white supremacists alike. As you rightly point out, flags really don't say much about people on the ground, they say more about where people have been lead.

Just a quick pull up your socks moment here :

i also love what my flag once represented, the aussie digger. the young lads who went of to war in ww2 and vietnam and others, who did their country proud. for the history buff, the kokada trail in PNG. disentry to the point they cut the arse from their pants to shit blood with a rifle in their hand to shoot the invading chinese (who were the aggressor). outnumbered and held them off for weeks. that was aussie, that

Mate, I'm sure it was just an oversight and I don't have to tell you, but for the seps out there who have no f**king clue, it was in fact the JAPANESE that we were fighting in Kokoda, not the Chinese. In point of fact, the Chinese were also fighting the Japanese. And it was well more than a couple of weeks. Months and months. True heroism.

that aussie that got blown up in iraq last week, well the prime minister john howard went to his funeral. bad enough. but then he hugged the mans widow. outrageous. but then she broke down in tears and huged him back, rediculous. pm howard is why the man was there, he's the reason he is dead. but through disinformation and media spin, indoctrination and being uninformed he wanted to go and his wife thinks howard gives a damn about her and her dead husband.
the state of the country and the world is bloody awful. it could only be worse if howard tried to f*ck her on his coffin.

Yep, you're absolutely right. Except the digger died in Afghanistan. You know, that "real" war as opposed to the fake one in Iraq. Actually I get confused myself these days, I keep trying to find a reason why we're in Afghanistan, then I remember 9/11, then I remember that 9/11 was actually in the USA, not Australia, then I remember that 9/11 was an inside job... It's all a little f**ked really. But full respect for the diggers over there getting on with the job even they know it's a bunch of crap cooked up in Canberra. We may need them one day to send the plate of crap back into the kitchen.

-yiddishstripclubowner-

[yiddishstripclubowner]

also i should add, times have changed in australia and while there is still much resentment over those wars most younger people have no idea, horrible bloody things happened with POW's and torture and the like, it is a time that shouldnt be forgotten. i feel really stupid getting the names screwed up.

Hey don't get me wrong mate, I wasn't having a go, just my training as a journo.  In the past I've corrected people on the old haloscan boards and I generally get abused and/or banned. You got 98% of the story right, just a few geographical muckups. In the grand scheme of things I guess it doesn't matter - whether our boys are dying in Iraq or Afghanistan, the fact is that they shouldn't be in -either- of those places. Also - bloody good work being that together after so much grog. I myself have just had a bottle of red wine so sorry if I sound a tad more ocker.

but i dont think it compares at all to the middle east conflict. my cousin sent me a letter from overseas, judging by her sentiment the troops dont realise its all cooked up bs. im sure some do but a majority dont. if anyone sends it back to the cooks it would be the older retired vets in my opinion. or (some) higher brass. 20>40 yr olds seem to be very gun ho. they are definitly doing it tough over there tho, not an easy job for them by any measure. but not like the old wars, no one i heard has had their head chopped off or been skined or gutted. PNG sounds like it was true hell, middle east sounds like a god awful nightmare.

Welll.. Maybe the brass, but my uncle is a Vietnam vet and truly f**ked up. The fact is when you're that f**ked up by war, it's hard to do anything but "support the mission", so I think you'll find a lot of the older ones are even less questioning. I remember having a drunken argument with my 64 year old uncle who used to fly choppers in the RAAF (specifically medivac choppers - every single flight he took involved ferrying completely f**ked up soldiers to medical help - as you can imagine it has an impact even to this day) just before the current Iraq war started, and he was all for it. He didn't even know why, he just trusted the "brass". I'm sure now he's seen the light but the fact is military types will almost always support the mission, no matter what they're told. It's only fair - a professional soldier doing his job takes orders, no questions asked.

But the time has come for those questions to be asked.

[jbrid1138]

(quote)
But the time has come for those questions to be asked.
______________
Yes, agreed.  Here's a link to a group doing just that very thing:
(VAIW) Veterans Against Iraq War
http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php

[Gabriel A King]

  Love the Aussies here on the thread!  Hey fellas, I can drink too! ;)To fly the old glory?  I think the key word here is.....
OLD.
  Right now, all I see the American government behaving like, with the consent of the people, is Skull & Bones.  Not to worry.  We'll fly the glory again with new pride and meaning when we oust the bastards- Crocodile Dundee style!

[CaptanPacard]

Hey this gave me a great idea for those of us who live in the southwest. As i understand in the southwest Mexican flags are often found to be flown over the American flag. As I'm sure you all know meritime law says this means its a conquered nation. Why doesn't anyone in the southwest fly a pirate flag over the American flag. With all good intentions you'll be arrested or fined with the oppertunity to go to court. You could appeal that the Mexican flag is flown over the american flag why couldn't i fly then a pirate flag. Perhapes you could even appeal to the state supreme court if you lose your case trien to use a defense like that and bring some wide spread attention to this obviously gross testiment to the state in which the southwest states have fallen. Id do it myself but i live in Illinois and have no grounds to use this defense since we have the fortune of flying our own nations flag on top i don't know what do you guys think about that maybe the idea could be refined. I think ill make a post. And ya i agree we might as well be flying a pirate flag over Iraq and Afganistan hell maybe we should have that flying in most of ours... there military bases I'm not sure whos military bases they are anymore.

LET FREEDOM RING!