http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2009/06/the_conspiracy_files_77.htmlThe Conspiracy Files: 7/7
Mike Rudin | 08:53 AM, Wednesday, 24 June 2009
The bombings on 7 July 2005, which killed 56 people and injured 784, England's worst terrorist atrocity, are the subject of one of the most difficult programmes in the Conspiracy Files series. Difficult because it is still an understandably sensitive subject for survivors and relatives of victims.
But I also think it is important to investigate the conspiracy theories that continue to develop around 7 July attacks, because they play on the fears of the Muslim community and spread a highly divisive and damaging message. The programme carefully and analytically works through the allegations and the evidence to separate fact from fiction.
There have been three official reports into the bombings. However, a host of internet films continue to scrutinise every word and every picture for signs of a hidden truth.
The programme, to be shown on BBC Two at 9pm on Tuesday 30 June shows that on one occasion one sceptic was right and spotted a significant error in the Home Office narrative. The government had to apologise for suggesting in a report, nearly a year after the attacks, that the four bombers had boarded a train which had actually been cancelled.
However, crucially the government insists the bombers were still able to get to London on time, because they caught an earlier train, which was delayed leaving Luton.
Internet videos question the official account, suggesting the British government has deceived people into thinking four suicide bombers carried out the attacks. Some go even further and allege the British government was involved.
The latest Conspiracy Files programme films one notorious conspiracy video being played at the Birmingham Central Mosque and sees first hand how conspiracy theories have found favour among some Muslims.
One opinion poll by Gfk NOP for Channel 4, two years after 7 July attacks, found that around a quarter of British Muslims questioned thought the government or MI5 were involved in the bombings.
Rachel North, who survived the bomb on the Piccadilly line, tells the programme that the conspiracy theories need to be countered for that very reason:
"If people in mosques think that the Government is so antagonistic towards them that they're actually willing to frame them for a monstrous crime they didn't commit what does that do to levels of trust? That is a problem for the government and for everybody in this country."
Brian Paddick, who was Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner at the time of 7 July 2005, argues it is important to counteract the conspiracy theories:
"Programmes like this may be very controversial but hopefully there will be people in the police service and in the security service and in government who will realize how important conspiracy theories are. And how important it is to try and prevent further atrocities that every attempt is made to try and counteract them."
Mike Rudin is series producer of The Conspiracy Files. The Conspiracy Files: 7/7
is on Tuesday 30 June at 9pm on BBC Two.
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Previous Next 1. At 09:16am on 24 Jun 2009, U14046943 wrote:
"But I also think it is important to investigate the conspiracy theories that continue to develop around 7 July attacks, because they play on the fears of the Muslim community"
The BBC needs to stop doing things because the Muslim community may be scared/offended.
It is offensive to millions of people that the BBC insists on doing so.
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2. At 09:29am on 24 Jun 2009, kaybraes
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3. At 09:41am on 24 Jun 2009, hackerjack wrote:
The BBC needs to stop doing things because the Muslim community may be scared/offended.
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Actually I would rather the BBC DID do it, they are pretty much the only option available who are well funded enough to do a thorough job on the investigation but also non-commercial enough not to have to 'sex up' the program in order to generate ratings.
It is of interest to many millions in the UK, not just Muslims.
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4. At 09:43am on 24 Jun 2009, tengearbatbike wrote:
I thought the tone of the article was that they didn't want to offend the victims, which I think is fully justified and a commendable attitude.
In terms of offending religious communities, I personally couldn't care less- this isn't just aimed at Islam, but anyone dumb enough to fall for one fiction will inevitably fall for more. I think the incidence of religious people who beleive ridiculous theories (Catholics and holocaust denial, every religion and that silly book about the Elders of Zion etc etc ad infinitum) is more than a little disturbing. No more disturbing than beleiving in transubstantiation, flying horses or reincarnation though.
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5. At 09:57am on 24 Jun 2009, ynda20
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6. At 11:18am on 24 Jun 2009, Secratariat wrote:
Is there any chance you're going to mention the coincidence that on both 9/11 & 7/7 the respective governments were engaged in training simulations that matched the actual "terrorist atrocity" in almost every single detail ?
Seems an important point that the officials were quite happy to overlook.
kaybraes:
"The Muslim community is the offender in this case, not the British people ; the bombing was carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam."
This is one of the most ignorant & offensive things I've ever read in response to 7/7, it may well be a lack of clarity in what you've said but it comes across like you want to blame the whole Muslim community for the events of that day.
The Muslim community is not and was not the offender that day, a handful of individuals who happened to be Muslim were (if you believe the official story).
Laying the blame on the whole Muslim community is the equivalent of blaming all Europeans for the Holocaust.
It is this type of ignorant statement, and the hatred that lies behind it, that needs eradicating from our society and I find your whole statement to be typical of the self-pitying White Europeans we get moaning about all subjects these days.
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7. At 12:21pm on 24 Jun 2009, forthblue
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8. At 12:57pm on 24 Jun 2009, Secratariat wrote:
forthblue:
"Why are Muslims unhappy here?"
Who said they were ?
I've got lots of Muslim friends and they're all happy here, how about you try making friends with some and finding out what they actually think instead of believing the lies & propaganda peddled by the tabloid press & BNP.
"Freedom of religious expression is permitted, compulsory conversion is not."
None of my Muslim friends have ever tried to convert me to Islam, I've been invited to various religious events and have enjoyed taking part in them just as I have Christian and Jewish events that I've attended but at no time did anyone ever try to convert me.
The Church of England puts far more effort into trying to convert people to Christianity with their religious schools etc than the Muslim community do.
"If I was that unhappy living in a country the answer would be to go and live with one that agrees more with my viewpoint."
Britain has a rich tradition of people standing up for what they believe in and using the democratic system to try to make changes to the way the country is run. I have yet to experience any Muslim trying to make Britain an Islamic state or trying to implement Sharia law though. Many of my Muslim friends parents came to Britain to escape Theocratic oppression and they and their children are not trying to bring it in here now that they have got away from it.
"So instead of trying to spread fear and terror why not go and live in one of those or other Islamic nations."
Very few Muslims are trying to spread fear and terror, most of them just want to get on with their lives and don't really care what you or anyone else believes, just like the rest of us.
It is you who is trying to spread fear & terror with your paranoid delusions and baseless lies.
How do you think a British Muslim would feel reading statements such as yours ?
Many of my Muslim friends have been living in fear for the last eight years, they feel they are being blamed for something they have no influence over and no responsibility for by people who can only ever see the colour of their skin and the religion they observe.
People like you who would twist their beliefs and use the statements of others to condemn them.
On several occasions since 9/11 I've been to friends' homes and businesses to help clear up the damage caused by mindless idiots who would blame all Muslims for the actions of a handful of individuals they've never met & have no influence over. Statements like yours only serve to inflame the brain-dead and incite them to commit further crimes against innocent people and you are therefore only continuing the cycle of violence and hatred that the rest of us are trying to break.
Replace the word Muslim with the word Jew and your statement would read like the paranoid ramblings of a Nazi from 1930s Germany.
Just like the German Jews from that time, most British Muslims have far more to fear from us than we do from them.
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9. At 1:13pm on 24 Jun 2009, forthblue wrote:
No matter what the religion or cause blowing people up is hardly going to endear them to your viewpoint is it? I personally think religion is the biggest source of trouble to humanity in history and as long as people cling to their outdated beliefs, this type of thing will continue. Nice liberal point of view dissection of my last point Secretariat. Shame it is all founded om a false premise though. In fundametalist Islam all infidels are to be disposed of. Hardly a tolerant religion is it? Since that is what the terrorists are fighting on behalf of, I really do not fancy that idea at all.
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10. At 1:18pm on 24 Jun 2009, goldCaesar wrote:
The BBC needs to stop doing things because the Muslim community may be scared/offended.
It is offensive to millions of people that the BBC insists on doing so.
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If they didn't want to risk offending muslims then they wouldn't broadcast the programme at all, after all, according the article it seems the programme is concentrating on the minority of muslims who believe the conspiracies, as well as the usual online forums.
I suspect that while the programme will find small groups of radicals who use 7/7 as evidence of an anti-islamic conspiracy there will also those who cannot bring themselves to believe that their religous brethren could carry out a random attack against innocents (and fellow muslims).
I would also imagine that the vast majority of 7/7 conspiracists are not muslims but those who are also convinced 9/11 and global warming are also conspiracies. experience has told me that the vast majority of these will never change their opinion, regardless of what evidence is presented to the contrary.
i look forwards to the programme.
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11. At 2:29pm on 24 Jun 2009, Secratariat wrote:
forthblue:
"I personally think religion is the biggest source of trouble to humanity in history"
No, that would be greed. Religion is just an excuse given by those in positions of power to convince the masses that what they're doing is righteous.
Religion on a personal level is not a bad thing and the idea that getting rid of religion will solve all of our problems is ridiculous, people always will find reasons to hate each other and until we rid ourselves of the "them and us" mentality there will never be Peace.
This isn't a matter of self interested bias either, I do not belong to any organised religion.
"Shame it is all founded om a false premise though. In fundametalist Islam all infidels are to be disposed of."
What is "fundamentalist Islam" ?
How many of the worlds Muslims are "fundamentalist" ?
You're making over-simplified generalisations that simply are not true.
The Quran specifically states that non-Muslims should be protected if they live in a Muslim country.
Have you ever read the Quran or even spoken to a Muslim about their beliefs ?
The idea that all Muslims, or even all "fundamentalist" Muslims share the exact same beliefs and interpretations of the Quran is yet another fallacy.
No two Muslims have the same interpretation of Islam just as no two Christians share the same interpretations of Christianity, it's only those who wish to spread fear and hatred that try to give the idea that they do.
If you want to talk of tolerance then try casting your eye over your own intolerant statement, as the Bible says: You notice the splinter in their eye while ignoring the plank in yours.
How exactly do you know what all "terrorists" are fighting for ?
Read the interviews given by many of the Majors & Generals who've been dealing with detainees in Iraq & Afghanistan and they'll tell you that the people we're fighting against are, for the most part, not fighting for religious reasons but because they are angered by the continuing colonial attitudes and actions of certain Western nations.
From a recent interview in the Independent:
""The reason why foreign fighters joined al-Qa'ida in Iraq was overwhelmingly because of abuses at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and not Islamic ideology," says Major Matthew Alexander, who personally conducted 300 interrogations of prisoners in Iraq."
Source:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/torture-it-probably-killed-more-americans-than-911-1674396.html You are living in a state of self imposed ignorance where you have sought the easiest answer possible to explain something, just as those with faith cling on to the idea that it is all God, so too do you cling on to the false idea that "it's all religion".
In fact, it is all greed, and those in positions of power are just using religion as a method to divide and conquer the people of the world for their own ends.
Our politicians have been trying their hardest to paint our nations as innocent victims of the Muslim world since 9/11 when nothing could be further from the truth.
Look at the Dictators we've supported over the years, The Shah in Iran, the Al Sauds in Saudi Arabia, Saddam Hussein until he decided he'd had enough of doing what he was told.
All of them, and many more, have been supported by the UK & US governments for decades. While we talk of freedom and democracy we support some of the most brutal regimes the world has ever seen and, for the most part, it is these hypocritical policies that have caused these attacks on our nations as people are sick of living in oppressive regimes so that we in the West can enjoy the fruits of their labour & the resources of their nations.
But you can go on believing it's all the fault of the Muslims and this vicious cycle will continue and all of the worlds children will suffer the consequences.
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12. At 2:31pm on 24 Jun 2009, deamon138 wrote:
"Why does the BBC feel it is required to pander to the M uslim community ?"
It takes a special kind of backwards of logic to think that debunking a myth held by 25% of British Muslims is somehow pandering to Muslims.
My comment is disagreeing with you. You might even say it's debunking your comment. Does that mean I'm pandering to you?
"The Muslim community is the offender in this case, not the British people"
Of the four terrorists who carried out the bombings, 3 were born and raised in Britain, and 1 was born in Jamaica, before taking up British citizenship when he was little. It is not true to say that the "Muslim community" and the "British people" are somehow separate, there are many British Muslims in this country, and as I have just shown, 4 were involved in 7/7. There is nothing in the term "Muslim" that says they can't be British, all it says is who or what they worship. That's all.
"Why is the BBC attempting to raise doubts in the minds of the population about who carried out the attack and why it was carried out."
The program is debunking the conspiracy. How does debunking raise doubts?
"should be condemned out of hand , rather than being justified as a fault of the victims."
And you got the idea that the BBC is blaming the victims from where exactly?
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13. At 2:34pm on 24 Jun 2009, rexel123 wrote:
It is amazing how so many people try to turn any discussion which happens to mention Muslims into a discussion into how we should blame Muslims for everything. Just a bit of advice, if you are going to do this then don't make stupid mistakes such as suggesting British people and Muslims are two separate groups, many people follow Islam and also consider themselves British. Also, being Muslim does NOT make you a terrorist any more so than being Catholic. It is pathetic idiots who believe that stuff that are destroying the country.
Anyway, as to this particular subject I do not see it as pandering to any particular group of people. Whether or not you believe any conspiracy to do with 7/7 (and a surprising amount of people of various backgrounds do believe) you should be pleased to see that offical statements are just being accepted and alternative explanations are considered, it all ties in with our "freedom". Conspiracy theory programmes on TV can often be dismissed as cheap entertainment but if done right they can provide a good public service.
I will watch this programme not because I happen to think the authorities are lying but because I will be interested to learn more about the views of other people regarding the subject. I have found previous Conspiracy Files episodes to be interesting even though conspiracy theorists will inevitably say the programme was biased and is simply covering up the truth, maybe this time it is, I look forward to watching the episode and deciding for myself.
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14. At 3:07pm on 24 Jun 2009, kaybraes wrote:
I did not as it seems, intend to blame the whole muslim community for the bombing, though it may have come out that way, what I meant was that the offenders were wholly from the muslim community and therefore the onus is on the muslim community to rectify the situation, not on the rest of the population to make special overtures to the community which may in fact be harbouring more of the same potentially murderous thugs; misguidedly allowing religious allegiance (as in Ireland during the troubles ) to shield the perpetrators and planners of such atrocities. Neither the rest of the population nor the security forces has any way of reaching into these communities where it is in fact a " closed shop " as far as information on terrorist activity is concerned either through fear of reprisal or just an unwillingness to become involved.
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15. At 3:12pm on 24 Jun 2009, Isenhorn wrote:
#8,
'This is one of the most ignorant & offensive things I've ever read in response to 7/7, it may well be a lack of clarity in what you've said but it comes across like you want to blame the whole Muslim community for the events of that day'
How typical! Just mention something negative about Muslims and a split second later somebody gets offended! Now all we need is an imam to start calling for a wolrd-wide 'day of anger'. I do not know whether the Muslims community supports terrorism, but Muslims do seem to be most easily offended by anything nowadays.
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16. At 3:24pm on 24 Jun 2009, get-real wrote:
I hope this programme will be interviewing the distinguished writer Nafeez Ahmed whose book The London Bombings: An Independent Inquiry (Duckworth) raises many disturbing questions about the atrocity.
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17. At 3:25pm on 24 Jun 2009, Elysiumfire wrote:
Kaybraes: "The Muslim community is the offender in this case..." I'm sorry, Kay, but that is a very obnoxious statement. Are we to blame all Christians for the witch burnings of earlier centuries, or perhaps even, the Inquisition? The offenders (or patsies) were individual persons aligned to the Muslim cause by both religious and ideological zeal. You cannot blame carteblanche a whole people or nation on the actions of individuals. Then again, your statement could be taken as an attempt to derail comments to the conspiratorial tone of the 7/7 bombings.
After doing research for myself, the conclusion I have drawn (but subject to change) is that the 7/7 attacks became good 'PR' for the reasons on the so-called 'War On Terror', particularly at a time when criticism of the war was reaching ever increasing vociferous levels. Bear in mind that the Iraq invasion was based utterly on lies, obsfucation, and corporate interests, all hiding behind the cause of fighting terrorism.
Coincidences of similarities between the attacks of 9/11 and 7/7 are alarming and most certainly thought-provoking. One such coincidence is that on days of both attacks, emergency services were already in place before the attacks took place holding supposed drills on the type of scenarios that actually transpired. The point of conspiracies is that they draw needed attention to the scenario of the conspiracy itself, and that they seek to provoke investigation into who ultimately benefits from the attack?
The wider picture (of which the attacks are a part of) is an incredibly nightmarish vision of a move to Corporate Totalitarianism on a global scale...and it is still unfolding, especially so whilst most of the population sleep their accepting way into its grip. This programme, will I expect seek to paint the conspiracy as being nothing more than the warped thoughts of fringe extremists, disgruntled with the government. An attempt to discredit and whitewash over the concerns and alarm of those whom are investigating the attacks. It is very important to use the faculty of discernment when doing the research, and there are plenty of people out there who are doing just that.
Always bear in mind that these events are not unconnected, but are pieces in the global jigsaw of a world being steered towards a corporate ideology that if shown in full crystal clarity would frighten the living daylights out of the people. Quiet though...the people sleep a uneasy and disquieting dream, best not to awake them to the truth, they could not take it.
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