I Just Want Out

[ekimdrachir]

I hate this capitalist-consumerist society so much.

[chrisfromchi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

[MasSlavery]

There is nothing wrong with capitalism, I'm all for a free market economy, It only becomes a bad thing when it's hijacked by rich bankers who want to transfer all fo the wealth into the hands of central banks and when that happens it basically becomes communism. (which is control over the distribution of the wealth)

[Mike Philbin]

well, I'm afraid to say, only now is it becoming a Capitalist society - before then, there was ZERO CAPITAL in the system in the for of debt.

Now there's a chance for it to become Capitalist - where adverts for all the latest corporate bullshit will be pumped into our RFID-chipped heads via targeted lasers paid for by our grand children's grandchildren.

Nice, huh?

You realise the alternative is NO CASH SYSTEM. I'm all for that. But barter has its corruptions too. I mean a totally FREE HUMANITY not tied to some desk job - maybe everyone on a rota, cleaning ditches, sewers, hospitals, you know? Taking an active part in their beautiful world.

[Freeski]

Opt out. It's fun! You can't do it all but do it when you can

[MasSlavery]

well, I'm afraid to say, only now is it becoming a Capitalist society - before then, there was ZERO CAPITAL in the system in the for of debt.

Now there's a chance for it to become Capitalist - where adverts for all the latest corporate bullshit will be pumped into our RFID-chipped heads via targeted lasers paid for by our grand children's grandchildren.

Nice, huh?

You realise the alternative is NO CASH SYSTEM. I'm all for that. But barter has its corruptions too. I mean a totally FREE HUMANITY not tied to some desk job - maybe everyone on a rota, cleaning ditches, sewers, hospitals, you know? Taking an active part in their beautiful world.

There is no such thing as a perfect system, humanity will always find a way to corrupt and tyrannise it. That is why the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots, basically a "kick in the ass" if you will.

[Mike Philbin]

Opt out. It's fun! You can't do it all but do it when you can

He's right, you can do it little by little. I (for example) have no car, no iphone, no debt and my own work-arounds - yes, you need them. But it is possible to live within one's means - you just gotta cut off the corporate influence more and more. But everyone can do it, no matter whether they live in a big or a small country. You gotta reclaim your priorities as a race.

Resist.

[ekimdrachir]

I dont mean im sick of the fundamentals of it. Im just sick of the mundane ongoing repetition, the blandness. I want to go to the mountains! I want to do something REAL. This f**king city is too big for its own good.

[MasSlavery]

I dont mean im sick of the fundamentals of it. Im just sick of the mundane ongoing repetition, the blandness. I want to go to the mountains! I want to do something REAL. This f**king city is too big for its own good.

I know how you feel brother, I have been wanting to leave society myself but since I'm only 18 and am working minimum wage my options are limited right now. If you can afford it go ahead, learn how to forage, get off the grid and learn how to farm. Become truly free and live the life of your ancestors. Read the Bible and if you're not christian or you don't believe in god then just try to make your self a better person and treat others the way you would like to be treated. get in touch with the wilderness and get married and have many children.
That is true freedom.

[Double]

You got the right attitude. Those who live with society will fall with it.
The whole society and cult-ure is nothing but lies, both the left and the right, outside of it all is peace...
Now that you have focused your attention on wanting to get out, a way will open.

I don't know if you guys are interested in working for earth rather then moon-ey,  but if so their is a site that has lots of opportunities for people to work on organic farms. The farmers normally do not pay you money, but they will give you room and food as payment, and great experience in gardening and working for earth!
http://www.wwoof.ca/node/39

This is just one way of the top of my head, there's lots of ways to get out, just stay focused on it. 

[maim]

There is nothing wrong with capitalism, I'm all for a free market economy, It only becomes a bad thing when it's hijacked by rich bankers who want to transfer all fo the wealth into the hands of central banks and when that happens it basically becomes communism. (which is control over the distribution of the wealth)

but thats what capitalism is

[MasSlavery]

but thats what capitalism is

Communism is extreme governmental control over the distribution of wealth, in most cases it's distributed to central bankers while the people get the scraps and it's called a "workers paradise". Why do you think the banks funded communism? They needed a revolution to get their central bank in place since the tzars refused to have central bank in russia. (I'm not saying the tzars were good I'm just stating a fact)

[ekimdrachir]

Is that how you would define a few multi billionaires managing a corporatocracy of global enslavement? i guess everyone was suckered into making the auto industry so huge it had a bailout, and now the government took it over and everyone is gonna be enslaved to it for generations to come! to the machinery itself. even the pawns playing the top of the pyramid are enslaved to it just like us. can we start calling it Planet-WHO now? or UnPlanet? how about Government Motors Inc. with president Obamaland and vice-rapper Dr Dre..

[G_1776]

I hate this capitalist-consumerist society so much.

"I just Want Out" Where will you go that is better

[Geolibertarian]

There is nothing wrong with capitalism

Depends on what kind of "capitalism" one is talking about:

       http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=108590.msg667150#msg667150

[Mike Philbin]

Depends on what kind of "capitalism" one is talking about:

       http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=108590.msg667150#msg667150

Great pyramid image.

[Michal Ptacnik]

Hmmm... I am afraid that every kind of capitalism, a system that emphasises on profit instead of welfare for the people gets sooner or later hijacked in one form or another.
In other words, if we audit the FED, return to state money and give the socialist state a big kick out of the door (and into the Hudson river) and restore the rule of the Constitution, our grandchildren will have to do the same again, since it will return back sooner or later.

And one day, a generation will fail it's duty to water the tree of freedom with the blood of the tyrants and then there will be no try again.

No, capitalism in itself IS bad and must be replaced in order for a society of less mental sickness to be achieved. It is, well, to sum it up, an evil system, if we consider greed and materialism (not philosophical, materialism as in "buy more!!!") "bad" values, which most of us do. It is by the way also unchristian if you care for those things; Love Thy Neighbor becomes basically a derivative in a capitalistic society.
Just as everything else that is worthy in life.

Now, however, the problems lies elsewhere. The current system, however that is caused, promotes false values, and capitalism is only a symptom of a gigantic disease which could be summed up in these words: "Normal, good life is a big fat lie. No one living "normally" can ever be truly happy."
Yet that's what we should strive for, The Man says, or else...

Unless we get rid of this lie somehow, it does not matter if we live in a capitalistic insanity or socialistic insanity, or islamic theocratic insanity... the mental illness will be the only constant.

[Mike Philbin]

Hmmm... I am afraid that every kind of capitalism, a system that emphasises on profit instead of welfare for the people gets sooner or later hijacked in one form or another.

You gotta come help me convince the guy on this thread that the chasse de PROFIT is the real enemy, the real inhumanity creator:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=10739.msg670093#msg670093

[MasSlavery]

For those of you against capitalism, what do you suggest we have as an alternative?
We can't have communism, we have all seen what that leads to: totalatarianism.
Capitalism as a system is fine, it's humanity that causes these problems.
If we had allowed GM and Chrysler to fail a gap would have opened up in the auto industry and allowed smaller car companies to get their chance at success but instead we are propping up these companies which are going to inevietably fail anyway, but in this case we only poured billions into these companies whereas if we haden't  the free market would have fixed it self.

It's not the free market that is the problem it's government intervention of the free market and control over the government and economy by a central bank that is the problem, we no longer live in a capitalist society, although it's not socialist either since socialism as an idea is supposed to represent the people. No instead we live in a fascist society where big corporations (such as the fed reserve) and big government work together to put the people into slavery.

Here's some quotes from wikipedia:

Fascism comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology[1][2][3][4] and a corporatist economic ideology.

Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalist liberal democracies.

In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state communism.[10][11] This was to be achieved by a form of government control over business and labor (called "the corporate state" by Mussolini).

So please don't confuse true capitalism with fascism, there are very big differences even if they can be hard to spot at times.

If Mussolini could see the United States today He would see His Fascist dream a reality, I think he would be proud.

[Michal Ptacnik]

I suggest that we try for as much laissez faire as possible, but as an end result and not a principle, or the means.

E.g. That we have the society that emphasizes as equal as possible an access to business opportunity. That means, amongst other things, to completely outlaw the making of legal persons and to limit other forms of business association. Only a patchwork capitalism can work.

But that's only the next best solution. It would be much better to strive for a state that enables everyone to maintain a livable lifestyle without the need to work, aka. Venus Project and the like. The notion that the ancient fear "if I do not go hunting, I'll starve to death" is in any way a good thing, or even "the only motor for society" is a big fat lie.

Only people who are truly free of the immediate stress of survival can become something better; this is, I truly believe, a way to change the very human nature most of you use as an argument. It will also greatly reduce crime.

I presently do not know how exactly to do it, and it would require cooperation amongst many people to achieve, but I feel this, the complete abandonment and transcendence of the socialism-capitalism paradigm, is a very, very good direction.

[Freeski]

For those of you against capitalism, what do you suggest we have as an alternative?
We can't have communism, we have all seen what that leads to: totalatarianism.
Capitalism as a system is fine, it's humanity that causes these problems.
If we had allowed GM and Chrysler to fail a gap would have opened up in the auto industry and allowed smaller car companies to get their chance at success but instead we are propping up these companies which are going to inevietably fail anyway, but in this case we only poured billions into these companies whereas if we haden't  the free market would have fixed it self.

It's not the free market that is the problem it's government intervention of the free market and control over the government and economy by a central bank that is the problem, we no longer live in a capitalist society, although it's not socialist either since socialism as an idea is supposed to represent the people. No instead we live in a fascist society where big corporations (such as the fed reserve) and big government work together to put the people into slavery.

Here's some quotes from wikipedia:

So please don't confuse true capitalism with fascism, there are very big differences even if they can be hard to spot at times.

If Mussolini could see the United States today He would see His Fascist dream a reality, I think he would be proud.

Excellent point. Had we left GM's future to market forces, many new manufacturers would appear to fill the void.

[Voskhod3]

There is nothing wrong with capitalism, I'm all for a free market economy,

A free market is impossible because stopping this...

It only becomes a bad thing when it's hijacked by rich bankers who want to transfer all fo the wealth into the hands of central banks and when that happens it basically becomes communism. (which is control over the distribution of the wealth)

...is impossible whilst still having a "free market".

It's the human dilema.

I want to be free, I want to stop other people doing stuff.

[MasSlavery]

It's the human dilema.

I can agree with you on that. 

[MasSlavery]

I presently do not know how exactly to do it, and it would require cooperation amongst many people to achieve, but I feel this, the complete abandonment and transcendence of the socialism-capitalism paradigm, is a very, very good direction.

Thats the problem...
Maybe you should become a philosopher, write a book and tell me how it goes. 

[Mike Philbin]

It's the human dilema.

I really think it's not - it's the corporate dilemma.

You watch a few gardeners comparing the food they've grown and they're not thinking, "I can make more money for this." they're thinking, "Mine tastes better than his." but we've lost that pride in our contribution. As long as we make a few bucks, we think we've achieved. Wrong. If you've made something like everyone else, you've let society, you've let your family, you've let the entire planet down.

Individuality should be about the human achievement. It should be about the most unique, the most engrossing, the pinnacle.

[MasSlavery]

I really think it's not - it's the corporate dilemma.

You watch a few gardeners comparing the food they've grown and they're not thinking, "I can make more money for this." they're thinking, "Mine tastes better than his." but we've lost that pride in our contribution. As long as we make a few bucks, we think we've achieved. Wrong. If you've made something like everyone else, you've let society, you've let your family, you've let the entire planet down.

Individuality should be about the human achievement. It should be about the most unique, the most engrossing, the pinnacle.

You have to remember that not everyone has good or humble intentions, perhaps it's a genetic variation, perhaps it's a personality trait or perhaps it's just human nature to "want more". You're right about what humanity should be but it simply isn't. Sorry if I'm "negative" but in my experiances people usually don't change.

[Voskhod3]

Any market quickly becomes by necessity more complicated then gardeners comparing produce.

Life, people and markets are much much more complicated than that.

You can't be free and restrict freedom.

There is no such thing as a free market.

[MasSlavery]

Any market quickly becomes by necessity more complicated then gardeners comparing produce.

Life, people and markets are much much more complicated than that.

You can't be free and restrict freedom.

There is no such thing as a free market.

But state control over the markets is also an example of restriction of freedom, in Soviet Russia small busineses were outlawed, taxes were high and everyone worked for the government.

At this point I think all we can do is agree to disagree.

[Voskhod3]

All I saying is the same b*stards come out on top in any market because they don't care about other people.

You try to stop them they will stop you - only nastier.

Look at the world - they've got it tied up.

[MasSlavery]

All I saying is the same b*stards come out on top in any market because they don't care about other people.

You try to stop them they will stop you - only nastier.

Look at the world - they've got it tied up.

I agree but what I'm saying is at this point in time there aren't any feasable alternatives to a free market, humanity will always find a way to corrupt things it's a sad fact.

[Mike Philbin]

You have to remember that not everyone has good or humble intentions, perhaps it's a genetic variation, perhaps it's a personality trait or perhaps it's just human nature to "want more". You're right about what humanity should be but it simply isn't. Sorry if I'm "negative" but in my experiances people usually don't change.

You're right, people are f**ked up. But it harks back to the profit-hunger of the Capitalist market pressure. They're just doing that they've been told is right (for the last two hundred years). Greed is good - even mass market films spout that shit. MTV Cribs brain washes our kids. It's just PROGRAMMING.

It is possible to break it - but you really have to wanna do it.

[MasSlavery]

You're right, people are f**ked up. But it harks back to the profit-hunger of the Capitalist market pressure. They're just doing that they've been told is right (for the last two hundred years). Greed is good - even mass market films spout that shit. MTV Cribs brain washes our kids. It's just PROGRAMMING.

It is possible to break it - but you really have to wanna do it.

I can agree with you on not promoting greed and materialism I think our main disagreement is on how the system should be managed. You seem to be a smart fellow and I wish you the best of luck in all of your endevors. 

[Freeski]

Any market quickly becomes by necessity more complicated then gardeners comparing produce.

Life, people and markets are much much more complicated than that.

You can't be free and restrict freedom.

There is no such thing as a free market.

Yes, markets are extremely complex and volatile and that's precisely why they must be left free to work things out on their own. When you try to manage it, you restrict it from realizing its full potential, AND you innevitably hurt some while helping others.

[CaptBebops]

Wealth is freedom.  Debt and poverty are prisons.  The elite hate us for our freedom so they've been busy taking it away from us.  They especially didn't understand the new tech millionaires from the last decade, the Mark Cubans of the world.  Many weren't even political nor interested in their fraternal orders.  No wonder the Bush administration and the NeoCons were the "old technology" like oil.  They understood that.

Only small business is good capitalism.  Once companies become too big they become slow and wield too much effect, usually negative, upon society.  In order to stay alive large companies buy out government to protect.  That's what we have today.  And who owns big companies?  The elite.
 

[Voskhod3]

Yes, markets are extremely complex and volatile and that's precisely why they must be left free to work things out on their own.

They never will.

The bads guys always come out on top.

There is no such thing as a free market, only opportunities (to f*ck your fellow man).

[Geolibertarian]

Only small business is good capitalism.

I don't see anything necessarily wrong with medium-sized businesses (the kind that have, say, a few dozen chain stores in multiple counties or states), but other than that I tend to agree.

There's a fundamental difference between this...






and this:

[Freeski]

I disagree. The onus is on each and every one of us to decide whether a company grows or fails, but that responsibility has been usurped by the socialist brainwashing over many generations. And we seem to accept it. We can't even see it any more because we're so accustomed to being blindly dependent on some other body to inspect our meat, approve our drugs, decide whether we should or should not allow smoking in restaurants, etc.

We can still have someone else "approve our drugs" or "inspect our meat", but private research/thinktanks/consumer groups; the difference being competition among such businesses (where companies would try to be the best in order to attract more customers than the other guy), instead of the monolithic state that's in bed with corrupt businesses.

It's like when I car shop. I always buy second hand and always take it to my personal mechanic for a paid opinion - before buying it. That's $100 well spent in my books. Why not do the same with meat inspection?

Who allowed Wal-Mart or McDonald's to become so huge? We did by shopping there. If every one of us simply stopped doing so, they would go out of business.

Who allowed Blackwater to kill people? We did by not recognizing the sleaze in government and dealing with it before it got so out of control.

Give us a blank slate, and freedom will prove itself.

[Nailer]

The unemployed just want food and shelter along with a job.


13 cities post unemployment above 15%
93 metro areas at 10% or more; rates rise year-over-year in all 372 metropolitan areas for fourth consecutive month.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/03/news/economy/metropolitan_area_unemployment/index.htm?section=money_latest
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- There were 13 unlucky cities with unemployment rates topping 15% in April, and another 93 saw joblessness climb above 10%, according to a government report released Wednesday.

By comparison, only seven cities reported unemployment rates above 10% in April 2008, the Labor Department said in its report.

April 2009 was the fourth consecutive month that unemployment rose in all of the nation's 372 metropolitan areas compared with the same month in the prior year, the report said.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics releases monthly metropolitan-area data, lagging behind national unemployment statistics which this month showed the jobless rate was 8.9% in April. A new nationwide report for May comes out Friday.

The April report is slightly better than March's survey, which said that 109 metropolitan areas reached 10% or higher, with 18 of those at 15% or higher. The data are not seasonally adjusted and that could account for some of the difference, the BLS said.

Jobless in Elkhart: 'collective consciousness'
Elkhart-Goshen, Ind., posted the biggest year-over-year increase in April -- 12.7 percentage points.

Residents are feeling the crunch of the 17.8% unemployment rate.

"It's on the news and in your ears here," said resident Alan Steele, business adviser at Indiana Small Business Development Center.

"It's part of the collective consciousness," he added. "I truly can't recall the last time I went through a workday without hearing about the job situation here."

Layoffs and closures in manufacturing have hit the city hard, Steele says. He said he sees many people interested in starting their own businesses, or ramping up time spent on side projects.

"Losing your job is not the best reason to start a business, which we tell them," he said. " But in some cases they're just trying to take control of the future."

Other hard-hit cities
El Centro, Calif., continued to have the highest rate of any metropolitan area at 26.9%. The town is located near the Mexican border and relies on agricultural employment, according to economists. As a result, the area's jobless rate tends to rise and fall depending on the farming season.

For areas with 1 million or more residents, Detroit was the worst hit, posting a rate of 13.6%. Portland, Ore., showed the largest increase, jumping to 11.6% from 4.7% in April 2008.

The least affected of the big cities was New Orleans, at 5.3%. At 3.2, Iowa City, Iowa, reported the lowest overall rate in the country.

The number of metropolitan regions that had unemployment rates under 7% dropped sharply to 117 from 347 in April 2008. Only 31 areas reported unemployment rates below 5% in the current report.

A total of 33 metro areas registered unemployment rates that were at least 6 percentage points higher than a year ago, and another 44 areas' increases were 5 to 5.9 percentage points.

First Published: June 3, 2009: 1:43 PM ET

[Voskhod3]

I disagree. The onus is on each and every one of us to decide whether a company grows or fails,

Would we have to make rules?

[Freeski]

Would we have to make rules?

For what?