Plans to have middle classes target/blame the lower classes (elites laughing)

[agentbluescreen]

The founders of this country fought against taxation without representation. In other words, those who were taxed did not have a vote in how the tax system worked.

This is a lie!

 Americans rebelled against established Anglican-Episcopal Religious-socialist Fascism and it's pseudo-papal national socialist warlords, and their trade monopolies and trading tariff taxes.

They rebelled to be free from the tyranny of a foriegn religious socialist dictatorship - nobody had real representation period! AND, there was no taxation system other than a private foriegn currency inflation-tax, stamp taxes and import and export duty taxes!

America had no income tax, sales taxes  nor property taxes until after the surrender to Britain after WWI

All taxes enrich and benefit only the rich at the expense of everyone else!

[PatAndrews]

Thank you for replying to my OP which I said was a radical proposal for discussion. Most people here are just flipping out on each other and calling for forced birth control or calling each other commies.

I wanted to see what the reaction was and it's certainly interesting.

Rather than debating whether or not those on welfare should be able to vote themselves a raise, this has turned into a welfare good/bad argument and I'm really surprised to see so many people here siding with welfare knowing it's all part of eugenics.

I'm totally for charity and let's not forget that for the longest time this great country was one of the most charitable around.

Quite true

Welfare = Slavery while Charity = helping your fellow man with no strings attached.  I'm all for helping people out.  I've needed help myself a time or two, but never relied on the government to hand it to me.  When I have it, I always donate to help someone in need.  Isn't that what we are supposed to do in the first place?  It just seems like common sense that the less the government has to do with our lives, the better off we are.  The more we depend on them, the more control they have over us.  

[thrashbassist]

The only way to STOP the problem is at the root cause, which is the welfare-state itself (including ending corporate welfare, as was mentioned earlier).

Not allowing those on welfare to vote is just stupid and smacks of fascism (remember, a contingent of welfare recipients don't have a choice once they start, as the system makes it to where many people can't work a minimum-wage job and still be able to support their families, because they'll lose their benefits, especially those with numerous medical problems), and keeping people from having children is exactly what the eugenicists want.

It's no excuse for perfectly healthy welfare-leeches that live off our dime when they're perfectly capable of getting off their lazy asses and working, but like I said, the problem starts at the very top and that's where it should be dealt with.

[xfahctor]

sure, why not, and while we're at it, why not require drug tests for all welfare recipiants. Oh, hey, another great idea, lets suspend certain rights too, like the right to protest the government or the right of someone on welfare to not be arbitrarily searched in their homes or on the streets. Or maybe welfare recipiants shouldn't be able to own guns either, maybe shouldn't be allowed jury trials either.
 Actually, I have it solved....why not just round up all the welfare recipiants and herd them in to camps, they could all work in the camps to pay for their keep, be tagged of course with RFID chips, gotta make sure they aren't wandering off to do things that tax payers do, can't have em doing that, can we.
  

[SlaveState]

The only way to STOP the problem is at the root cause, which is the welfare-state itself (including ending corporate welfare, as was mentioned earlier).

Not allowing those on welfare to vote is just stupid and smacks of fascism (remember, a contingent of welfare recipients don't have a choice once they start, as the system makes it to where many people can't work a minimum-wage job and still be able to support their families, because they'll lose their benefits, especially those with numerous medical problems), and keeping people from having children is exactly what the eugenicists want.

It's no excuse for perfectly healthy welfare-leeches that live off our dime when they're perfectly capable of getting off their lazy asses and working, but like I said, the problem starts at the very top.

I agree. Again, thanks for the debate.

I proposed something extreme for debate...to get people to think about the fact that there is a segment of society voting only for those that will increase their monthly paycheck from the state.

I don't really want to deny anyone the right to vote...what I want is for people to think about how damaging the welfare system has become to a "free" society.

[xfahctor]

I agree. Again, thanks for the debate.

I proposed something extreme for debate...to get people to think about the fact that there is a segment of society voting only for those that will increase their monthly paycheck from the state.

I don't really want to deny anyone the right to vote... what I want is for people to think about how damaging the welfare system has become to a "free" society.

agread on that point.

[Geolibertarian]

As they say, a picture speaks a thousand words. And although I generally support limited government and free enterprise (I'm a Neo-Georgist, not a Marxist), I nevertheless think the following image accurately reflects both the corporate monstrosity that laughingly passes for "free market capitalism" these days and the plutocracy that laughingly passes for "democracy."



The difference between left-wing (or "progressive") libertarians and right-wing (or "conservative") libertarians is that the latter want to start abolishing privileges at the bottom and work their way upward whereas the former want to start at the top and work their way downward.

[weegie1]

I cant believe this thread exists on this forum, And i appreciate that there are a lot of newbies here.
 But i still find it hard to believe there is support for this nonsense, its the well used divide and conquer routine.

The people that want to take your guns and kill your family are not the unemployed, illegal immigrants Jews, Muslims or Catholics.

Its time to put on the "big boy pants" and realise that its the Vatican, Israel and the Global banks that are your enemy not the people that are taking what they can from the system.

[David Rothscum]

As they say, a picture speaks a thousand words. And although I generally support limited government and free enterprise (I'm a Neo-Georgist, not a Marxist), I nevertheless think the following image accurately reflects both the corporate monstrosity that laughingly passes for "free market capitalism" these days and the plutocracy that laughingly passes for "democracy."



The difference between left-wing (or "progressive") libertarians and right-wing (or "conservative") libertarians is that the latter want to start abolishing privileges at the bottom and work their way upward whereas the former want to start at the top and work their way downward.

Heh, a friend of mine says they were spot on when it came to identifying the problem, they just got the solution wrong. And I agree.

[thrashbassist]

I agree. Again, thanks for the debate.

I proposed something extreme for debate...to get people to think about the fact that there is a segment of society voting only for those that will increase their monthly paycheck from the state.

I don't really want to deny anyone the right to vote...what I want is for people to think about how damaging the welfare system has become to a "free" society.

Right you are, and those that vote that way are despicable as they refuse to look at the big picture and vote for what's best for America as a whole, but, like WWII, the war wasn't won simply by taking North Africa, they had to make their way to the heart, which was Berlin (speaking in purely strategic terms, not taking into account all the political BS behind the war).

[BlueBaron]

As they say, a picture speaks a thousand words. And although I generally support limited government and free enterprise (I'm a Neo-Georgist, not a Marxist), I nevertheless think the following image accurately reflects both the corporate monstrosity that laughingly passes for "free market capitalism" these days and the plutocracy that laughingly passes for "democracy."



The difference between left-wing (or "progressive") libertarians and right-wing (or "conservative") libertarians is that the latter want to start abolishing privileges at the bottom and work their way upward whereas the former want to start at the top and work their way downward.

Great poster 

[Lucian Solaris]

you commie bible thumpers are all the same...



Just thought I'd get in on the action!

you Austrian economics people are morons

[Lucian Solaris]

Simple solution: no more welfare.

The free market can do better, ever heard of a charity?

I would have to disagree. If we start to regulate how many kids someone can have on welfare then it opens the door to other restrictive policies. Once you give the state that authority it will no doubt be extended into other areas. Never give government more power, they have too much already. Just look at the cps stuff that was going on with Alex's elmployee.

[thrashbassist]

Simple solution: no more welfare.

The free market can do better, ever heard of a charity?

That sums it up pretty well.

[changedname]

 I have to say that a couple of the comments here serves the NWO well.. One is attacking people in need and blaming them for taxes when it is not them who is responsible for stealing your taxes in the first place but attacking your neighbor rather than laying blame where it should be causes divisions among the people which is what the proponents of the NWO love..Divide and conquer is their motto! Another sounds to serve the eugenics when someone calls for some law to prevent a person from having children! Can't you see that this is exactly what they want?  This is supposed to be a movement to conquer the NWO but I see lots  of infighting going on! How do you think that a group divided and arguing all the time can ever unite against a common enemy??  Stop taking it out on your neighbors or anyone who is close enough to take your frustrations out on and instead focus on who caused all of this to start with! If it is true that your neighbor is guilty because he needs help in hard times then are we all not more to blame for allowing it to get to this point to start with?  Why fight with  someone (who has lost their job) over tax money and where it is going ?  Shouldn't you be more concerned with those who stole this money from you with illegal income taxes in the first place?? Or maybe you should be more concerned with all the money spent on illegal wars or banker bailouts but it is soooooooo much easier to blame the neighbor in need isn't it? Easier to take your frustrations out on the victims than the ones who are really to blame because it is much easier to kick the neighbor who is down than to stand against those in power..right?

[agentbluescreen]

The founders of this country fought against taxation without representation. In other words, those who were taxed did not have a vote in how the tax system worked.

In two months the banksters stole more money than America has ever spent for public healthcare for the aged with no casino tickets, military-socialist terror-socialism (defense). war AND welfare - just to treat the symptoms of their gambling-drug addictions!

Americans have never had a vote on or for anybody who had a vote on INCOME TAX because there is no law!

If there were no people on welfare wealthy land-owners would have nobody to extract property-usury rents from and would be unable to keep up the bankster payments and government-socialist "property tax-rents" on their excessive usury-properties.

But you have a point - THE BIGGEST WELFARE RECIPIENTS who are banksters, drug companies, private for-profit disease repair hotels, defense contractors and insurance gambling casino operators should all be forbidden (and their assigns) from voting and contributing to any political party or candidate!

[John Bannon]

[marra]

[getch36]

Taking money(by force) from one person to give to another is wrong.I believe Our founding fathers would agree......

[CaptBebops]

Exactly how much would you need to tax the few who were working to pay the "stipend" to the many who aren't?  Probably such a high rate that those who were working would simply quit.

Richard C. Cook is the guest that Alex has interviewed who recommends giving everyone a stipend.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7852

He more recently referenced a guy whose web site I'm looking for that has some ideas on how to pay for it.  This isn't anything new.  Buckminster Fuller thought we would reach a point about now that we would have to pay people not to work.

[JonTheSavage]

That sums it up pretty well.

Austrian Economics 101, the way it is set forth in the Constitution.

[Q]

Show me the Austrian Shithouse set "forth" in the constitution...

All these crazy Austrians - makes sense up to a point - the banks should be allowed to fail etc., but they extend the principle to dealing with human beings so..they should be allowed to fail and die on the street - slowly starve. So the Austrians should just go out a'killing and put all these poor people out of their misery.

Of course, the Austrian school is merely a management technique for a virtual free market which is never free, just controlled by the bankers at a level that is not immediately obvious. The Austrian school was always an elitist tool for control - never a blueprint for a genuine free market.

[Parentsfortruth]

You have no idea what I've been through to even propose such a ridiculous challenge. I have lived in a tent and dug ditches to feed myself. My mother got pregnant with me at 16 and raised me by herself in a roach invested apartment working 2 jobs without outside help. No welfare in either case.

CHARITY is different than welfare. This country had an incredible amount of charity before the government started extracting wealth for social programs like "welfare". Learn the origins of welfare and you might think different. It's not about helping people...it's about social control.

DO YOU PEOPLE HERE EVEN LISTEN TO ALEX JONES? SINCE WHEN DID HE SUPPORT WELFARE? WTF?

I'm going to have to agree here.

[clearmyst]

Anyone on welfare does not at all deserve to bitch about what the government is doing.
If your a house slave then its your fault for staying on the plantation.

[Sub-X]

Anyone on welfare does not at all deserve to bitch about what the government is doing.
If your a house slave then its your fault for staying on the plantation.

Are you serious Do also think people on disability shouldn't bitch too

Your sounding a little like Bill O Reilly there.

[Montag]

My 2 cents:

In reply to many of your opinions, not one in particular -

No matter what, this debate must revolve around two key principles,

Personal Responsibility:
Many say you cant support a family on a minimum wage job, well don't have kids until you are ready:
Don't go into debt like an ignoramus, save money for a rainy day. Simple. People don't do that.
People instead buy HDTVS and Phat RIMS for their overpriced car, and complain about being broke.
Ive never had a problem finding a job, (i did graduate high-school) theres always some shite-job at a gas-station or burger joint, Even today I saw a Help Wanted sign at a Gas Station.
My dad left when i was 5, my mom worked two jobs and raised 3 kids, no money from the state.
People who get themselves into a postion where they are living paycheck to paycheck need to learn how to budget.
Most the people who are "poor" smoke cigarettes and drink beer, not necessities, catching my drift?
The comment on birth control pertains to how Women can get more Welfare money for having more kids, thats Eugenics, in a different way than exterminating people.

The Financial Complex:
Considering that most of our taxdollars are used to simply pay interest on the Country's debt, we are in no position to be running a Socialist Republic, as we currently are. If our tax-dollars were used in a fashion that was legal, we could all pay less taxes, and have better social programs, and we wouldn't need to have this debate.


Personal Note:

Not all people on Welfare and Foodstamps are bad people, but too many of them are, they take advantage of the system, and contribute nothing to society.

[pac522]

Let's just revert back to the 3/5ths rule. Meh.

The system is broke, you don't fix the system by breaking it some more.

[donnay]

When government subsidizes things they take control.  So the minute people accept welfare they are controlled by government and so are their votes in a round about way.

Welfare should be eliminated all together, IMHO.  American became great by allowing growth and when people are on the government dole there is no growth.  The voting, to me, is ancillary since none of our votes count or matter anymore.

[thrashbassist]

Anyone on welfare does not at all deserve to bitch about what the government is doing.
If your a house slave then its your fault for staying on the plantation.

So someone who is dependent on the welfare system because they are physically unable to work shouldn't be allowed to criticize the government? And say her husband wants to go back to work but can't because if he takes a job, his wife's benefits will be taken away (usually being Medicare and Medicaid). Does he not deserve to complain about how the system screwed them over?

I know this because not too long ago my parents were in this situation, and the only reason they were able to get out of it was because luckily, I had a good enough job to be able to pay my for mom's prescriptions and medical bills for a few months until my dad could get insurance at his new job. But some people aren't that lucky and have nobody to depend on.

[Sub-X]

When government subsidizes things they take control.  So the minute people accept welfare they are controlled by government and so are their votes in a round about way.

As Jessie Ventura said "Try think of some part of your live that government does not control".You are just as much controlled by the government on welfare as you are as a tax payer.

[donnay]

As Jessie Ventura said "Try think of some part of your live that government does not control".You are just as much controlled by the government on welfare as you are as a tax payer.

I understand that.  We have to start somewhere--that's kind what I was trying to say.  Welfare is nothing more than a carrot and stick approach.  We are supposed to be Independent not Interdependent.

[birgit]

Does he not deserve to complain about how the system screwed them over?

We  could  have so much more buying power if we  did not have to pay the Banksters and it were a truly free market.

However, enlighten and find out why-
read this...(only 37 pages) you will see why they did welfare...an excerpt:
Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars
Diversion, the Primary Strategy
Experience has proven that the simplest method of securing a silent weapon and gaining control of the public is to keep the public undisciplined and ignorant of the basic system principles on the one hand, while keeping them confused, disorganized, and distracted with matters of no real importance on the other hand.
This is achieved by:

disengaging their minds; sabotaging their mental activities; providing a low-quality program of public education in mathematics, logic, systems design and economics; and discouraging technical creativity.

engaging their emotions, increasing their self-indulgence and their indulgence in emotional and physical activities, by:
unrelenting emotional affrontations and attacks (mental and emotional rape) by way of constant barrage of sex, violence, and wars in the media - especially the T.V. and the newspapers. giving them what they desire - in excess - "junk food for thought" - and depriving them of what they really need.


rewriting history and law and subjecting the public to the deviant creation, thus being able to shift their thinking from personal needs to highly fabricated outside priorities.
These preclude their interest in and discovery of the silent weapons of social automation technology.
The general rule is that there is a profit in confusion; the more confusion, the more profit. Therefore, the best approach is to create problems and then offer solutions.


the rest here:
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/index.shtml

[Sub-X]

I understand that.  We have to start somewhere--that's kind what I was trying to say.  Welfare is nothing more than a carrot and stick approach.  We are supposed to be Independent not Interdependent.

I'm with you  I'm bringing them down from the inside 

[agentbluescreen]

So someone who is dependent on the welfare system because they are physically unable to work shouldn't be allowed to criticize the government? And say her husband wants to go back to work but can't because if he takes a job, his wife's benefits will be taken away (usually being Medicare and Medicaid). Does he not deserve to complain about how the system screwed them over?

I know this because not too long ago my parents were in this situation, and the only reason they were able to get out of it was because luckily, I had a good enough job to be able to pay my for mom's prescriptions and medical bills for a few months until my dad could get insurance at his new job. But some people aren't that lucky and have nobody to depend on.

As I posted earlier today on another topic with relation to disability and disease-repair bankruptcy:

America has no problem with an illegal national military-socialist government run private Pentagon (instead of lawful local militias) standing-army system, illegal terrorist-socialist government run private CIA mafia foreign criminal corruption systems,socialist public schools, socialist parks, socialist libraries, socialist waste sanitation systems, socialist flood insurance, socialist police, socialist fire departments, socialist water systems, socialist sewage systems, socialist roads systems, socialist forest management systems, socialist navy systems, socialist air force systems, socialist coast guard systems, socialist child care systems, socialist pension systems, socialist farm and industry subsidization systems and socialist postal systems - so what is wrong with allowing society the right of securing, protecting and defending their health?


The whole noble corporate-socialist propaganda matrix is supported by the lazy abuse of the English word suffixes:

"-ist" and "-ism"!

ALL "GOVERNMENT" IS SOCIALISM!

The question is always who's little ESTABLISHED "social association" is RUNNING IT, to ONLY THEIR benefit and ALWAYS OUR detriment!

[CaptBebops]

Here's the link to the article by Marshall Brain on the $25K a year stipend and how it would work:
http://www.marshallbrain.com/25000.htm

[agentbluescreen]

Any government that is of, by and for the people is by necessity 'socialist' in fact ALL GOVERNMENT INHERENTLY IS SOCIALISM!

Mankind is a social creature, and thus all our group organizations, whether 'democracies' or not, are territorial "governmental-isms". A boardroom, city council, synod or association meeting is the same thing as a union hall, they are all governing special-interest-'socialist' establishments!

When you have to cut your lawn or make your fence a certain height, insure 'your' car, obtain a license or pay taxes to use, or for what is supposedly 'yours' it is no longer 'yours'!

Corrupt 'fascist' false-law-of-'god'-socialists only ever serve corrupt noble-elite dogmatisms that corruptly only ever favor small groups of corrupt noble-elite monied patrons. Fascism is when established special interest socialists tyrannize minorities and majorities alike.

"-ism" (and -ist) is short for -socialism (-ist) and true Republican Libertarian-ism is the only exception because it alone is dis-establishmentarian!

[birgit]

I understand that.  We have to start somewhere--that's kind what I was trying to say.  Welfare is nothing more than a carrot and stick approach.  We are supposed to be Independent not Interdependent.

donnay,
It is buying loyalties for the elite.
There is no reward in being on welfare...other than the occasional  hick up , most people stuck in welfare are not doing well.They
tend to live in sh!tty hoods, misery abounds in between direct deposits- with people who try to steal from them.. not what I would want for my "money"
 We attack,hate a few frauds who drive fancy cars and wear fancy clothes, but by far the real robbers of our wealth escape our  attention and our wraths...cause no one points in their direction

The truly sick SOB who have created this current 'crisis' are still not talked about  by most people. Still  not understanding the entire  financial system the sheeple still blame a few bad mortages for all of this.
when it has been planned for decades, by the same monsters that have created all previous downturns.
They are making a KILLING off this right now.
BANKSTERS are to blame...the BIG ones - not the  local small fry

[thrashbassist]

As I posted earlier today on another topic with relation to disability and disease-repair bankruptcy:

America has no problem with an illegal national military-socialist government run private Pentagon (instead of lawful local militias) standing-army system, illegal terrorist-socialist government run private CIA mafia foreign criminal corruption systems,socialist public schools, socialist parks, socialist libraries, socialist waste sanitation systems, socialist flood insurance, socialist police, socialist fire departments, socialist water systems, socialist sewage systems, socialist roads systems, socialist forest management systems, socialist navy systems, socialist air force systems, socialist coast guard systems, socialist child care systems, socialist pension systems, socialist farm and industry subsidization systems and socialist postal systems - so what is wrong with allowing society the right of securing, protecting and defending their health?


The whole noble corporate-socialist propaganda matrix is supported by the lazy abuse of the English word suffixes:

"-ist" and "-ism"!

ALL "GOVERNMENT" IS SOCIALISM!

The question is always who's little ESTABLISHED "social association" is RUNNING IT, to ONLY THEIR benefit and ALWAYS OUR detriment!

I agree, and as I said, the only way to stop it is to stop it at the source, that is, at the very top. It's not right to punish those who simply live off that nanny-system, though I agree that many deserve it, but still many do not.

[Parentsfortruth]

So someone who is dependent on the welfare system because they are physically unable to work shouldn't be allowed to criticize the government? And say her husband wants to go back to work but can't because if he takes a job, his wife's benefits will be taken away (usually being Medicare and Medicaid). Does he not deserve to complain about how the system screwed them over?

I know this because not too long ago my parents were in this situation, and the only reason they were able to get out of it was because luckily, I had a good enough job to be able to pay my for mom's prescriptions and medical bills for a few months until my dad could get insurance at his new job. But some people aren't that lucky and have nobody to depend on.

This is another example of a good citizen. Normally nowdays, people just dump their parents into some nursing home or something because THEY are unwilling to make the sacrifices that their parents made for them. But then again, most people now days are throwing their children into publik skools and nightmare centers so that both parents can go to work and they wonder why their children throw them in said nursing home.

You're a nice person, Thrash. Instead of people dumping off their responsibility to their parents, to the government, they should be sacrificing for them, as you have.

[thrashbassist]

This is another example of a good citizen. Normally nowdays, people just dump their parents into some nursing home or something because THEY are unwilling to make the sacrifices that their parents made for them. But then again, most people now days are throwing their children into publik skools and nightmare centers so that both parents can go to work and they wonder why their children throw them in said nursing home.

You're a nice person, Thrash. Instead of people dumping off their responsibility to their parents, to the government, they should be sacrificing for them, as you have.

Thanks for the kind words. My parents have always supported me in all I've tried to accomplish, and they're the ones who taught me to be a free thinker, to stand up for what's right, and love my country so I figured it was the least I could do. I've always been pretty close with my folks.