Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary

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nofakenews

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Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« on: May 06, 2009, 05:34:29 pm »
THE PRESIDENT: ...I actually think that the tougher issue around medical care — it’s a related one — is what you do around things like end-of-life care —

Yes, where it’s $20,000 for an extra week of life.

THE PRESIDENT: Exactly. And I just recently went through this. I mean, I’ve told this story, maybe not publicly, but when my grandmother got very ill during the campaign, she got cancer; it was determined to be terminal. And about two or three weeks after her diagnosis she fell, broke her hip. It was determined that she might have had a mild stroke, which is what had precipitated the fall.

So now she’s in the hospital, and the doctor says, Look, you’ve got about — maybe you have three months, maybe you have six months, maybe you have nine months to live. Because of the weakness of your heart, if you have an operation on your hip there are certain risks that — you know, your heart can’t take it. On the other hand, if you just sit there with your hip like this, you’re just going to waste away and your quality of life will be terrible.

And she elected to get the hip replacement and was fine for about two weeks after the hip replacement, and then suddenly just — you know, things fell apart.

I don’t know how much that hip replacement cost. I would have paid out of pocket for that hip replacement just because she’s my grandmother. Whether, sort of in the aggregate, society making those decisions to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill is a sustainable model, is a very difficult question. If somebody told me that my grandmother couldn’t have a hip replacement and she had to lie there in misery in the waning days of her life — that would be pretty upsetting.

And it’s going to be hard for people who don’t have the option of paying for it.

THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?

I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

So how do you — how do we deal with it?

THE PRESIDENT: ...you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.

In other words, faceless bureaucrats in Washington -- not your family -- will decide whether your grandparents live or die.

While our health care system is certainly imperfect -- because all humans are imperfect, including doctors, nurses, hospitals and insurance companies -- they are more perfect, more competent, more informed, more capable than all of the bureaucrats to whom they'll be forced to report: a bureaucracy that will make all decisions about your health care.

Obama and the Statist Democrats promise health care for everyone, but they will not -- and they can't possibly -- deliver it.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/obama-endorses-government-mandated.html

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 05:39:00 pm »
Not saying that I agree with euthanasia, but does it really make sense to give a hip replacement to someone who is terminally ill?  Even from just a medical, not a financial standpoint,  I'm not sure how much sense it makes.
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Offline Voskhod3

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 05:47:16 pm »
The slippery slope to Logans Run.

Whilst I don't believe in extraordinary measures to prolong live, I totally disagree with bumping off "burdensome", "useless", "expensive" people.

Jeez.. where is the humanity going?

I thought Obama was a Christian.

(Nah not really... I know he's just pretending).

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 05:50:35 pm »
The slippery slope to Logans Run.

Whilst I don't believe in extraordinary measures to prolong live, I totally disagree with bumping off "burdensome", "useless", "expensive" people.

Jeez.. where is the humanity going?

I thought Obama was a Christian.

(Nah not really... I know he's just pretending).

At what point is there a cut-off for treatment, and who decides?  The patient?  The doctor?  The family?  The insurance companies? The GOVERNMENT?

 ???
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aviana

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 05:51:32 pm »
Fair comments Monkeypox.  I think the bottom line is the difference between natural death and euthanasia.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't anything in that article that actually suggested euthanasia was a solution to the rising health care costs of the elderly.  I read it as suggesting that there may be times when life-support might not be an option, which parallels the hip replacement in a terminal patient comment.

I completely believe in the sanctity of human life, from natural birth to natural death.  And with that said, that does include the option of not necessarily providing life support for a terminally ill patient.  However, the decision should be that of the individual and/or the family, and not a decision made on your behalf by the health authorities.  

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 05:53:21 pm »
Fair comments Monkeypox.  I think the bottom line is the difference between natural death and euthanasia.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't anything in that article that actually suggested euthanasia was a solution to the rising health care costs of the elderly.  I read it as suggesting that there may be times when life-support might not be an option, which parallels the hip replacement in a terminal patient comment.

I completely believe in the sanctity of human life, from natural birth to natural death.  And with that said, that does include the option of not necessarily providing life support for a terminally ill patient.  However, the decision should be that of the individual and/or the family, and not a decision made on your behalf by the health authorities.  

It's a difficult issue, and one we're going to have to deal with soon.
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Offline Voskhod3

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 05:55:38 pm »
At what point is there a cut-off for treatment, and who decides?  The patient?  The doctor?  The family?  The insurance companies? The GOVERNMENT?
 ???

I don't believe in a cut-off for treatment where there is a chance - however I do think that extra-ordinary treatment - like say even more radium - when everyone knows it's not going to make any difference is silly.

Like my Aunt who died last week - her last round of treatment was totally pointless and made her last days even more miserable.

aviana

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 05:56:20 pm »
It's a difficult issue, and one we're going to have to deal with soon.

Yup - the elephant in the room that will create huge debate and spark deep emotions on both sides of the house.  At the risk of blurring the lines even more, this is one reason why I am glad for the bible as it is very clear on such issues.  

Offline nustada

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 06:00:27 pm »
Not saying that I agree with euthanasia, but does it really make sense to give a hip replacement to someone who is terminally ill?  Even from just a medical, not a financial standpoint,  I'm not sure how much sense it makes.

Thats the problem "terminally ill" is subjective, I have two people in my family that were diagnosed at one point as being terminally ill, but are still going strong over 12 years later.

Offline aerborne

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 06:02:08 pm »
Not saying that I agree with euthanasia, but does it really make sense to give a hip replacement to someone who is terminally ill?  Even from just a medical, not a financial standpoint,  I'm not sure how much sense it makes.

Yes it most certainly does.

Offline nustada

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 06:02:38 pm »
Yup - the elephant in the room that will create huge debate and spark deep emotions on both sides of the house.  At the risk of blurring the lines even more, this is one reason why I am glad for the bible as it is very clear on such issues.  

For people to suffer to the bitter end is a good thing, in that it will eventually lead to better treatment for everyone. To give up completely on everyone will slow human growth drastically.

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2009, 06:03:46 pm »
Thats the problem "terminally ill" is subjective, I have two people in my family that were diagnosed at one point as being terminally ill, but are still going strong over 12 years later.

Yes, exactly.  So what do you do, give a hip replacement to someone on their deathbed because they MIGHT POSSIBLY recover?

The fact is, Medicare is running out of money and they are going to start making these types of decisions regarding treatment.
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Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2009, 06:04:58 pm »
No, for people to suffer to the bitter end is a good thing, in that it will eventually lead to better treatment for everyone. To give up completely on everyone will slow human growth drastically.

So the terminally ill should be FORCED to receive questionable/experimental treatments for the good of mankind?

 :-\
War Is Peace - Freedom Is Slavery - Ignorance Is Strength


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aviana

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2009, 06:05:34 pm »
No, for people to suffer to the bitter end is a good thing, in that it will eventually lead to better treatment for everyone. To give up completely on everyone will slow human growth drastically.

Well, that's profound.  Please tell me you are not serious?  ???

Offline Voskhod3

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2009, 06:06:33 pm »
The fact is, Medicare is running out of money and they are going to start making these types of decisions regarding treatment.

Medicare is running out money?

"Money" is an interesting concept these days.

Trillions can be found when it suits.

Offline NWOSCUM

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2009, 06:08:26 pm »
I lost both of my parents 11 days apart several years ago.  Mom,66, had pancreatic cancer, went through chemo and radiation, made her miserable and she passed anyways in Hospice (read eugenics...cause that's what it was).   Then dad, 78, had his second $100,000.00 quadruple bypass and died in recovery the next night.  I honestly think both of them would have at least had a better quality of life without the procedures but it was up to them..........will we be as lucky when it's our turn or will Big Brother say, pull the plug?
"The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, and their power of forgetting is enormous." --Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf"

aviana

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2009, 06:09:32 pm »
Thats the problem "terminally ill" is subjective, I have two people in my family that were diagnosed at one point as being terminally ill, but are still going strong over 12 years later.

That is good to hear that the devastating diagnosis of your family members were incorrect.  But are they still alive because they are on life support?  If they have nothing supporting the ongoing life, then they are still on the path to natural death.  When someone is terminally ill and is on life support, I believe that is when a case can be made - but again - imvho, it should be an individual or family decision.

Offline nustada

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2009, 06:11:00 pm »
The fact is, Medicare is running out of money and they are going to start making these types of decisions regarding treatment.

That is a dangerous line of thinking.

Here what "it costs too much to help" leads to.

Your to fat. No treatment
You got juvenile (or not) diabetes. No treatment.
You credit records show you bought alcohol once, no treatment.
You got a criminal record in you history, no treatment
You got political enemies, no treatment.

Very dangerous.

aviana

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2009, 06:11:54 pm »
I lost both of my parents 11 days apart several years ago.  Mom,66, had pancreatic cancer, went through chemo and radiation, made her miserable and she passed anyways in Hospice (read eugenics...cause that's what it was).   Then dad, 78, had his second $100,000.00 quadruple bypass and died in recovery the next night.  I honestly think both of them would have at least had a better quality of life without the procedures but it was up to them..........will we be as lucky when it's our turn or will Big Brother say, pull the plug?

Wow - what a blow.  Sorry to hear that.  Certainly puts things in perspective.

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2009, 06:12:07 pm »
I lost both of my parents 11 days apart several years ago.  Mom,66, had pancreatic cancer, went through chemo and radiation, made her miserable and she passed anyways in Hospice (read eugenics...cause that's what it was).   Then dad, 78, had his second $100,000.00 quadruple bypass and died in recovery the next night.  I honestly think both of them would have at least had a better quality of life without the procedures but it was up to them..........will we be as lucky when it's our turn or will Big Brother say, pull the plug?

My dad had double knee replacement surgery about 2 years ago, plus the hospital stay, rehab stay, and home care.  Paid for by Medicare.

I told him that it's nice he has that benefit available to him.  He said what do you mean, you'll have it too when the time comes.  I just laughed.
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Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2009, 06:14:01 pm »
That is a dangerous line of thinking.

Here what "it costs too much to help" leads to.

Your to fat. No treatment
You got juvenile (or not) diabetes. No treatment.
You credit records show you bought alcohol once, no treatment.
You got a criminal record in you history, no treatment
You got political enemies, no treatment.

Very dangerous.

Yes, but what do you want, just keep spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave until it's all gone?

This is a difficult and highly emotional issue, but we WILL have to deal with it soon.  Putting our heads in the sand and pretending it will go away is not helping.
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Offline nustada

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2009, 06:17:54 pm »
That is good to hear that the devastating diagnosis of your family members were incorrect.  But are they still alive because they are on life support?  If they have nothing supporting the ongoing life, then they are still on the path to natural death.  When someone is terminally ill and is on life support, I beleive that is when a case can be made - but again - imvho, it should be an individual or family decision.

It was not incorrect, they would have died. One had jeuvinile diabetes, and his organs were failing. The other was a miner for half his life, and as result had cancer and a high buildup of heavy metals notably very high in arsenic.

The one with juvenile diabetes, went off the doctor prescribed "pyramid diet" and went on a low carb, high vegetable, high protein diet, taking high dosage supplements of taurine and l-taurasine.

The other, went through a sort of dialysis, that cleaned out his blood. Then he too went on a diet that focused on high vitamins, especially d and calcium, because arsenic ate away his bone strength. And he began a weight training regimine to rebuild the streangh of his bones. He eventually had to get a hormone treatment for the cancer, and several surgieries to get rid of arthritic line bone deposits.

They are alive today, because they did not give up.

Offline NWOSCUM

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2009, 06:17:56 pm »
My dad had double knee replacement surgery about 2 years ago, plus the hospital stay, rehab stay, and home care.  Paid for by Medicare.

I told him that it's nice he has that benefit available to him.  He said what do you mean, you'll have it too when the time comes.  I just laughed.

YEP, mom and dad had medicare plus they paid for a supplement, so effectively they paid nothing.  I was FLOORED at the amounts of money being paid to doctors and hospitals.  NO WAY are we going to have medicare at this rate. 

Paid insurance is another out of control beast.  My monthly premium is $500.00 for JUST me...........and I can't switch now because I have diabetes.
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Offline Voskhod3

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2009, 06:19:43 pm »
Yes, but what do you want, just keep spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave until it's all gone?

Don't the Banks print some more?

It's not about money, it's about will.

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2009, 06:20:39 pm »
YEP, mom and dad had medicare plus they paid for a supplement, so effectively they paid nothing.  I was FLOORED at the amounts of money being paid to doctors and hospitals.  NO WAY are we going to have medicare at this rate. 

Paid insurance is another out of control beast.  My monthly premium is $500.00 for JUST me...........and I can't switch now because I have diabetes.

But yet, basically ZERO is spent on preventative measures.
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aviana

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2009, 06:21:19 pm »
They are alive today, because they did not give up.

The diagnosis' were not wrong, but the expected time to live certainly was.  Great testimonies.

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2009, 06:21:25 pm »
Don't the Banks print some more?

It's not about money, it's about will.

It's not about money?  Are you kidding?

 :-\
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Offline Voskhod3

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2009, 06:23:19 pm »
It's not about money?  Are you kidding?

No I'm not.

What's money? It can be produced out of thin air if the will is their.

Offline nustada

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2009, 06:27:57 pm »
Yes, but what do you want, just keep spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave until it's all gone?

This is a difficult and highly emotional issue, but we WILL have to deal with it soon.  Putting our heads in the sand and pretending it will go away is not helping.

The high cost of medical care is not just "spending like a drunken sailer"

The cost is from a corrupt medical system and insurance system.

Do you realize that the vast majority of you medical bill does not make it to the doctor?

They spend most the money they receive on liability protection.

Insurance drives up the price of medical care because buerocrats do not have the experience to be deciding weather they are being extorted or are being shown a fair price.

Beurocrats who run hospitals are in league with politicians and are up to no good on many fronts.

Technology costs are too high due to artificially diminished supply.

Medicine is too expensive due to having to bribe politicians, closed source trademark driven discovery process, and liability protection.

For example when a family was on dialysis due to his juvenile diabetes. He had a bill for $20,000 dollars a month. Due you know what it was for? For plastic bags that contained a sterilized saline solution. Thats right, $20,000 for sterilized plastic and salt. And you idiots have the nerve to blame him for the cost.

Offline Dig

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Re: Obama: Euthanasia of the elderly may be necessary
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2009, 06:32:24 pm »
At what point is there a cut-off for treatment, and who decides?  The patient?  The doctor?  The family?  The insurance companies? The GOVERNMENT?

 ???

An IBM machine decides.

Welcome to the NWO World Health Program.

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