HATE CRIME BILL TO NOW SHIELD PEDOPHILES

[J. Croft]

Don't Give Pedophiles
Hate Bill Protection!
By Rev. Ted Pike
4-25-9
 

During the final minutes of House Judiciary hearings last week, pro-hate bill Democrats went too far. They refused to include language that would bar homosexual pedophiles from special protection under "anti-hate" bill, H.R. 1913. They affirmed that all forms of homosexual perversion, legal or not, should be included under the term "sexual orientation." (See, "<http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/hatebillpassesjudic.htm>Hate Bill Passes Judiciary With Pedophiles Protected!" 4/23/09 at <http://www.truthtellers.org/>Truthtellers.org)
 
In so doing, pro-hate bill forces gave lovers of freedom a strategic advantage: almost everyone, liberal or conservative, Christian or not, viscerally reacts against sexual predators of small children. No decent person wants to give them special privileges and protection. Let's exploit this advantage as fast and far as we can!
 
The hate bill is headed for a floor vote perhaps as early as mid-week. Right now we must tarnish it as much as possible -- informing all of Congress that it is a pedophile-protecting bill. The Congressional record of last week's hearing will back us up: Judiciary Democrats adamantly refused to include a statement banning homosexual pedophiles from special protection.
 
Here's how we can do tremendous damage to the hate bill's chances:
 
Call your members of the House and Senate at 1-877-851-6437 or toll, 1-202-225-3121. Tell them:
 
"The House Judiciary has voted not to specifically exclude pedophiles from special protection under the hate crimes bill, H.R. 1913. Please support Rep. King's amendment to exclude pedophiles. Please don't vote for the hate crimes bill."
 
 
By making this request you are encouraging two powerful objectives:
 
· Publicizing throughout Congress that H.R. 1913 is a pedophile-protecting bill. Democrats who support it will be seen by their constituents as pedophile-protectors.
· Depriving this bill of its central objective: protection of all homosexuals as a class. If the category of "sexual orientation" becomes divided into "good" versus "bad" homosexuals, the bill has lost its central unity of purpose. It is gutted.
 
 
Can you imagine the damage that would have been done to the Civil Rights Act of 1965 if Congress had given special protection and privileges to most blacks -- but not all? The power and authority of that act, as well as H.R. 1913, depends on guarantee of protection for all of the class it attempts to elevate and protect.
 
We must immediately create discussion and doubt among Democrats as to whether they want to go on record supporting a bill which does not specifically exclude homosexual pedophiles.
 
We must begin this discussion everywhere in Congress now! Every constituent must demand a clear yes or no answer from their Senators and Representatives.
 
I believe many who now support the hate bill will doubt they can continue. Even a few Democrat doubters could mean hate bill defeat, especially in the Senate.
 
NPN's recent strategy to demand hate bill hearings, when Rep. Conyers was determined to avoid them, was spectacularly successful-But only because YOU sent in what both Republican and Democrat offices said was "a ton of calls."
 
This strategy will also work if YOU begin extensive calling early Monday morning. Lovers of freedom on the West Coast should begin calling at 6 am. Call your two Senators and House members. Then come to <http://www.truthtellers.org/>www.truthtellers.org where all members of the House and Senate are listed. Call as many as possible, again and again, all week until the floor vote is taken. Don't worry if an occasional office tells you that it is improper to call outside your state's representatives. What is really out of line is for members of Congress from other states to take away your freedom without being open to your opinion.
 
Rep. Barney Frank predicted the hate bill will be passed by the end of this month. We must make Congress abuzz with controversy starting Monday morning. We should let every member of Congress know, in no uncertain terms, that their vote for a hate bill that protects pedophiles will go very, very badly for them next election!
http://www.rense.com/general85/dont.htm

[Dok]

Rep. Barney Frank predicted the hate bill will be passed by the end of this month. We must make Congress abuzz with controversy starting Monday morning. We should let every member of Congress know, in no uncertain terms, that their vote for a hate bill that protects pedophiles will go very, very badly for them next election!

Now you know why  there is no provision against pedophiles. Barney Frank

A lot more here,
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=100719.msg598631#msg598631

[Dewk]

     Its sad but if they give their names and addresses Ok. If they hide it so they can prey on the Kids, second offense is death.

[wvoutlaw2002]

Of course General Electric will be exempted from this. They gotta use To Catch A Predator to condition the sheeple into thinking that internet predators are the new al-Qaeda. So don't worry, Chris Hansen. This law won't apply to you.

Oh this is just too rich.

PERVERTED JUSTICE MEMBERS IMPLICATED IN ONLINE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY

[blackturtle.us]

I don't think it's a good idea to exploit the paranoia and hysteria surrounding the topic of pedophilia in order to further one's political agenda. The current moral panic exaggerated claims of the abuse of children is something that needs to be diffused. Here's a pretty good article to put some of the misinformation and propaganda dispensed by child safety advocacy groups into perspective:
http://www.csicop.org/si/2006-05/panic.html

[wvoutlaw2002]

Of course General Electric will be exempted from this. They gotta use To Catch A Predator to condition the sheeple into thinking that internet predators are the new al-Qaeda. So don't worry, Chris Hansen. This law won't apply to you.

Oh this is just too rich.

PERVERTED JUSTICE MEMBERS IMPLICATED IN ONLINE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY

PERVERTED JUSTICE MEMBERS IMPLICATED IN ONLINE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY

August 28, 2007
VIGILANTE GROUP UNDER FIRE AS FBI IMPLICATES THEM IN ONLINE SEXUAL EXPOLOITATION OF MINORS


For_Immediate_Release:

United States of America (Press Release) August 28, 2007 --
Perverted Justice, the amateur cyber vigilante group based out of Portland Oregon, most noted for their connection to the deeply troubled NBC Dateline’s “To Catch A Predator” show, came under heavy fire last week after it was discovered and reported to the FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children’s Cyber-tipline, that it’s members were possessing and disseminating images of child pornography.

NBC Universal, which airs the Dateline show is currently facing two lawsuits for numerous improprieties. Trouble has been circulating around the Perverted-Justice group almost from the beginning for working in tandem with NBC. They have been accused as “staging the news” and NBC reportedly pays Perverted Justice $100,000 per episode. Critics worry that this is a big incentive to do whatever possible to create a sting scenario - anything from false accusations to manufacturing evidence. Perverted Justice, is the group responsible for baiting what they term “would be child molesters” online by posing as minors. Although it is also being reported that they use real minors to lure their targets- raising concerns that they also are exploiting minors. More often than not, the groups “evidence” is poorly documented, evidence is doctored, or even missing. Additionally, they often do not have or are unable to obtain legal and appropriate warrants for viable arrests and convictions, meaning many of their targets are never convicted even if they are guilty.
source: FPR

A watchdog group called corrupted-justice.com estimates that Perverted Justice and their self proclaimed band of “evil vigilantes” have wrongfully targeted well over 2,300 innocent people, and the number is growing. Many of these people are wrongfully targeted simply because they share the same or similar name to someone which the group believes to be guilty of some wrongdoing. They also target individuals which share views which is in any way different from theirs as well as anyone that dares to speak out against them. Amazingly, they have not been shut down but that is likely to change very soon. As a closer look into the players of Perverted Justice who hide behind computer screens and numerous pseudonyms -in an attempt to guard their true identities and real motives with a vengeance, reveals that they themselves are guilty of the very thing they claim to protect against. Numerous websites and profiles linked to Perverted Justice members reveal links to sexually explicit images of minors – a felony under both Federal Law and all States law -giving a whole new meaning to “Perverted” Justice. Some interesting quotes gleaned from their websites include: “ PRETEND to be child advocates” and “Don’t go posting a cp (child porn) pic somewhere to offend people, only to have your ip (address) logged and have yourself arrested. Learn the ways of staying anonymous online.”

-------------------------------------------------

Looks like Perverted Justice is funded by Walmart and Microsoft as well as GE/MSNBC

http://www.rickross.com/reference/perverted_justice/perverted_justice39.html

According to the application, NBC paid Perverted Justice $802,520 last year for the seven stings it conducted, roughly $115,000 per sting, including the November operation in Murphy, Texas, that resulted in the suicide of a local prosecutor who'd been caught in a sexually suggestive IM chat with a Perverted Justice decoy—NBC News cameras were waiting outside his home as he shot himself in the head with a pistol. Neither NBC nor Perverted Justice have ever confirmed precisely how much money the group earns from the Dateline collaboration, but previous reports pegged it at $100,000 per episode.

Perverted Justice's three staff employees—Von Erck, who is president; Dennis Kerr, aka "Frag," who is chief financial officer; and Alison Shea, aka "Del Harvey," who is secretary—each earn $120,000 per year. According to a salary survey [pdf] by Nonprofit Times, the average executive director of a nonprofit pulled down less than $100,000 per year in 2005. Just under half of Perverted Justice's income last year went to covering those three salaries.

Perverted Justice expected to earn another $450,000 from NBC in 2007 and $600,000 in 2008, but it's unclear how much of that will actually be paid. So far this year, the group appears to have conducted four stings: one in New Jersey that aired earlier this year and three in Kentucky that have yet to air and are expected to be combined into one episode. But according to a letter the foundation wrote to the IRS in July seeking an expedited review of the application, "NBC has expressed uncertainty as to whether it will continue to air" the Predator segments. If that happens, Perverted Justice would be left in a lurch—the group's fundraising target of $350,000 for next year wouldn't even cover Von Erck, Kerr, and Shea's salaries.

NBC declined to comment.

Aside from the NBC cash-cow, Perverted Justice had more than $300,000 in the bank last year and hopes to raise an additional $600,000 in grants and contributions by the end of 2008 from donors like Wal-Mart and Microsoft. It reported no charitable income in 2006, though, and as of July 2007, according to the application, no donors had stepped forward. Aside from stinging perverts, the group plans to educate parents and children about online dangers, and to develop do-it-yourself software kits to help cops track predators online and parents to monitor and control their kids' online activities.

GE's "To Catch a Predator" is government psyops for Tyranny and Targets

[America2]

So that NBC show "To Catch a Predator" was a GOVERNMENT PSYOP, ultimately? I used to watch it frequently when it was on 2 years ago - Chris Hanson was hailed as this big hero for all these pedifilers getting caught. At the time, I'll admit I thought this was one of the best things since sliced bread.

Wow...learning about this NWO is mind-blowing!

[wvoutlaw2002]

GE owns NBC/MSNBC which they use to fund Perverted Justice.  If a Dyncorp executive were caught by the show, Chris Hansen would probably hire Perverted Justice to scope a poor neighborhood and kidnap a little kid so Mr. Dyncorp Executive could have their way with him/her while Perverted Justice frames an innocent person for their crimes and Mr. Dyncorp Executive's crimes. Result? Perverted Justice gets away with kidnapping, Mr. Dyncorp Executive gets away with kidnapping, rape, and murder, and an innocent person ends up sentenced to death by lethal injection for the crimes of Perverted Justice, GE/MSNBC, Chris Hansen, and Dyncorp.

[DiscoDan]

Wow, has congress sunk this far?

Bill sucks to begin with, and congress finds a way to make it suck even more.

Then toss in the creeps at perverted justice.

Sigh, can't we just sell Washington DC to the highest bidder, and pay off some of our multi-trillion dollar debt?

[able]

is their a Talmudic connection to all of this? rabbis having the right to marry three year old's and all that... hell if you cant have a party in new Babylon where can you have it....

[Lilly Bighorn]

can someone explain to me how this bill protects pedophiles? it seems to me that they're still subject to harsh criminal laws against sexually abusing children. all this bill does is punish vigilante justice and violent crime motivated by sexual orientation. and, imo, anyone who goes out and commits violence to someone just because of their sexual orientation should be guilty of a crime and treated severely.

[heavyhebrew]

Anyone have a reporter doing their job and asking the bill's sponsors why they won't exclude pedophiles? Some video? Article online? Anything?

     Its sad but if they give their names and addresses Ok. If they hide it so they can prey on the Kids, second offense is death.

Sorry but the first time you rape someone, adult or child, especially a child, you just wrote yourself off the human race as far as I am concerned. Sure, jury trial and innocent until proven guilty but once that guilty verdict comes down, BAM you are off the team for good.

I ever catch a level 3 near my kids or, God forbid, talking to my kids, I am afraid I will be going to prison.

[Lilly Bighorn]

Anyone have a reporter doing their job and asking the bill's sponsors why they won't exclude pedophiles? Some video? Article online? Anything?

Sorry but the first time you rape someone, adult or child, especially a child, you just wrote yourself off the human race as far as I am concerned. Sure, jury trial and innocent until proven guilty but once that guilty verdict comes down, BAM you are off the team for good.

I ever catch a level 3 near my kids or, God forbid, talking to my kids, I am afraid I will be going to prison.

so there's no longer such a thing as doing your time and paying your debt to society? what if the guy went to church or whatever and sincerely repented? he shouldn't get protection like everyone else under the law?

[lordssyndicate]

PERVERTED JUSTICE MEMBERS IMPLICATED IN ONLINE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY

August 28, 2007
VIGILANTE GROUP UNDER FIRE AS FBI IMPLICATES THEM IN ONLINE SEXUAL EXPOLOITATION OF MINORS


For_Immediate_Release:

United States of America (Press Release) August 28, 2007 --
Perverted Justice, the amateur cyber vigilante group based out of Portland Oregon, most noted for their connection to the deeply troubled NBC Dateline’s “To Catch A Predator” show, came under heavy fire last week after it was discovered and reported to the FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children’s Cyber-tipline, that it’s members were possessing and disseminating images of child pornography.

NBC Universal, which airs the Dateline show is currently facing two lawsuits for numerous improprieties. Trouble has been circulating around the Perverted-Justice group almost from the beginning for working in tandem with NBC. They have been accused as “staging the news” and NBC reportedly pays Perverted Justice $100,000 per episode. Critics worry that this is a big incentive to do whatever possible to create a sting scenario - anything from false accusations to manufacturing evidence. Perverted Justice, is the group responsible for baiting what they term “would be child molesters” online by posing as minors. Although it is also being reported that they use real minors to lure their targets- raising concerns that they also are exploiting minors. More often than not, the groups “evidence” is poorly documented, evidence is doctored, or even missing. Additionally, they often do not have or are unable to obtain legal and appropriate warrants for viable arrests and convictions, meaning many of their targets are never convicted even if they are guilty.
source: FPR

A watchdog group called corrupted-justice.com estimates that Perverted Justice and their self proclaimed band of “evil vigilantes” have wrongfully targeted well over 2,300 innocent people, and the number is growing. Many of these people are wrongfully targeted simply because they share the same or similar name to someone which the group believes to be guilty of some wrongdoing. They also target individuals which share views which is in any way different from theirs as well as anyone that dares to speak out against them. Amazingly, they have not been shut down but that is likely to change very soon. As a closer look into the players of Perverted Justice who hide behind computer screens and numerous pseudonyms -in an attempt to guard their true identities and real motives with a vengeance, reveals that they themselves are guilty of the very thing they claim to protect against. Numerous websites and profiles linked to Perverted Justice members reveal links to sexually explicit images of minors – a felony under both Federal Law and all States law -giving a whole new meaning to “Perverted” Justice. Some interesting quotes gleaned from their websites include: “ PRETEND to be child advocates” and “Don’t go posting a cp (child porn) pic somewhere to offend people, only to have your ip (address) logged and have yourself arrested. Learn the ways of staying anonymous online.”

-------------------------------------------------

Looks like Perverted Justice is funded by Walmart and Microsoft as well as GE/MSNBC

http://www.rickross.com/reference/perverted_justice/perverted_justice39.html

GE's "To Catch a Predator" is government psyops for Tyranny and Targets

 As I said on air on friday. We at www.cyberarmy.com now www.cyberarmy.net proved that Kelly Hallissey  -- who was one of the founding members of perverted justice and a high ranking member of Cyber Angles  -- was directly tied to Dyncorp and 90% of the kiddie porn on the net.

This bill will give people like Barney Frank and Kelly and other NWO minions the abiliy to freely look at kiddie porn yet charge those reporting the truth with Hate Speech.

[menace]

 As I said on air on friday. We at www.cyberarmy.com now www.cyberarmy.net proved that Kelly Hallissey  -- who was one of the founding members of perverted justice and a high ranking member of Cyber Angles  -- was directly tied to Dyncorp and 90% of the kiddie porn on the net.

This bill will give people like Barney Frank and Kelly and other NWO minions the abiliy to freely look at kiddie porn yet charge those reporting the truth with Hate Speech.

Do you have an youtube of that?

[centexan]

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/pdf_files/SexualOrientationsDSMRev.pdf

That's a list of sexual orientations that would be protected under the law.  While some are already considered commonplace, quite a few are ones that people may have never heard of.  And then there are the dangerous ones.

Should a pedophile be able to rape your child and then hide behind a hate crimes law?  And don't think it wouldn't be used that way.  Other laws might kick into effect first (rape, injury to a child, assault), but eventually the hate crimes defense will be used.

I have no problem with making sure people are guaranteed legal protections regardless of their condition of birth (you can't help being born a certain sex or skin color), but BEHAVIOR should not be protected in the same way.  Where you stick your rod is up to you, and if you stick it in a child, you get no special protection.

[Lilly Bighorn]

Should a pedophile be able to rape your child and then hide behind a hate crimes law?  And don't think it wouldn't be used that way.  Other laws might kick into effect first (rape, injury to a child, assault), but eventually the hate crimes defense will be used.

I have no problem with making sure people are guaranteed legal protections regardless of their condition of birth (you can't help being born a certain sex or skin color), but BEHAVIOR should not be protected in the same way.  Where you stick your rod is up to you, and if you stick it in a child, you get no special protection.

i'm still not seeing where the special protection for pedophiles is. sexually abusing children is still a crime, and this bill does not provide an affirmative defense to anyone arrested and charged by police. all it seems to do is provide stiffer penalties on those who take the law into their own hands and commit violence against a person they believe to be a pedophile, but who has not gotten the benefit of due process of law and a trial.

[America2]

i'm still not seeing where the special protection for pedophiles is. sexually abusing children is still a crime, and this bill does not provide an affirmative defense to anyone arrested and charged by police. all it seems to do is provide stiffer penalties on those who take the law into their own hands and commit violence against a person they believe to be a pedophile, but who has not gotten the benefit of due process of law and a trial.

This is only step 1...just wait...

[luckee1]

so there's no longer such a thing as doing your time and paying your debt to society? what if the guy went to church or whatever and sincerely repented? he shouldn't get protection like everyone else under the law?

Nope.  The crime was not against society.  A life was destroyed when the child rape took place.  Kill the S.O.B. so as to ensure they cannot ever do it again.  The recidivism rate is too high to chance another child.  Further the system as it is practiced now, prosecutes men who are marrying 16 year old girls.  It is a totally adulterated so-called justice system.  I know that my sense of justice would serve as a warning to any other potential perverts.

If God has forgiven the individual and wants that perp to not pay in the way I set to out, then God will stop my hand!  Because evidently the child is not protected under the law, why should the perp?

The key to all this is to ensure that the accusation is true.  The Evidence must bear out.  Gov makes many accusations/convictions that are patently false.

[Lilly Bighorn]

This is only step 1...just wait...

yes, i will certainly wait for more evidence before i start writing to congress trying to change a bill i barely understand.

[xTruthSeekerx]

personally all pedophiles need to be lined on a wall
sorry if i hurt anyones feelings, they are pure scum

[Lilly Bighorn]

Nope.  The crime was not against society.  A life was destroyed when the child rape took place.  Kill the S.O.B. so as to ensure they cannot ever do it again.  The recidivism rate is too high to chance another child.  Further the system as it is practiced now, prosecutes men who are marrying 16 year old girls.  It is a totally adulterated so-called justice system.  I know that my sense of justice would serve as a warning to any other potential perverts.

If God has forgiven the individual and wants that perp to not pay in the way I set to out, then God will stop my hand!  Because evidently the child is not protected under the law, why should the perp?

The key to all this is to ensure that the accusation is true.  The Evidence must bear out.  Gov makes many accusations/convictions that are patently false.

can you tell where the bill says people who have clear evidence of pedophilia against them will not be prosecuted by the law? it seems that preventing vigilante justice against them actually gives the law a chance to work and protect the child the best it can. even if you believe vigilante justice is the appropriate way to deal with pedophiles, i don't see where this bill makes it no longer a crime.

[America2]

yes, i will certainly wait for more evidence before i start writing to congress trying to change a bill i barely understand.

To be frank, every single bill that's been rammed through Congress since 2000 has been barely understood. The $700b bailout/economic stimulus bills are prime examples.

[Lilly Bighorn]

personally all pedophiles need to be lined on a wall
sorry if i hurt anyones feelings, they are pure scum

so, in other words, throw the constitution out the window?

[xTruthSeekerx]

so, in other words, throw the constitution out the window?

you know quit defending this pieces of shit like your MISS QUEEN OF THE CONSTITUTION WHO SUPPORTS VIOLATIONS OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT, i am quite tired of this shit

[luckee1]

can you tell where the bill says people who have clear evidence of pedophilia against them will not be prosecuted by the law? it seems that preventing vigilante justice against them actually gives the law a chance to work and protect the child the best it can. even if you believe vigilante justice is the appropriate way to deal with pedophiles, i don't see where this bill makes it no longer a crime.

try being a raped kid/  til you and or any other feel good advocates do so THEN you can try to understand all these stupid bills that don't do crap to protect people.

[centexan]

The special protection is in being able to hide behind their sexual orientation.  This would give pedophiles a new protection for their behavior.  As it is now they have exactly the number of protections they need...they have the protection of trial by jury.  But if this passes, they'll be able to say they're being persecuted because someone hates them.  

As far as the fear of vigilanteism, enforce the laws already existing against that, don't give pedophiles a way to legally screw children.

[Lilly Bighorn]

The special protection is in being able to hide behind their sexual orientation.  This would give pedophiles a new protection for their behavior.  As it is now they have exactly the number of protections they need...they have the protection of trial by jury.  But if this passes, they'll be able to say they're being persecuted because someone hates them.  

As far as the fear of vigilanteism, enforce the laws already existing against that, don't give pedophiles a way to legally screw children.

i would need you to point to where in the bill it says that sexual orientation is a defense in a criminal trial for pedophilia. seems to me this only creates a new crime out of vigilante justice against pedophilia. if you want to defend that, and a case can certainly be made, that's one thing. but i just don't see where it says that a pedophile can get out of being convicted or going to jail just because of their sexual orientation. i'm not defending pedophiles, i'm disputing the interpretation of the bill.

[Libertarian Perspective]

I am personally all "hate speech bills". What happened when you can't make a joke about a sexual orientation or a certain ethnicity. When humour becomes lost in the beaureaucracy then you know it is a very bad time for the First Ammendment. Whether this hate speech will protect homosexual paedophiles is doubtful, I mean gays are still hated by a lot of people not to mention gay people who love minors.

[Libertarian Perspective]

"but i just don't see where it says that a pedophile can get out of being convicted or going to jail just because of their sexual orientation."

In America you can be convicted of your sexual orientation?

[lordssyndicate]

Do you have an youtube of that?

There was no you tube in 1998.....


be nice if there was but yeah .....

[Lilly Bighorn]

"but i just don't see where it says that a pedophile can get out of being convicted or going to jail just because of their sexual orientation."

In America you can be convicted of your sexual orientation?

no. i don't think i said that. the majority opinion in this thread seems to be that someone can get arrested for pedophilia and then in court plead their sexual orientation and thereby be acquitted. i don't think that's what this bill says at all. it seems to say that violence against someone because of their sexual orientation, even if they're a pedophile, is a special class of crime called a hate crime. that's something entirely different -- it seems to actually be a validation of the normal criminal process and a rejection of vigilante justice. i'm begging and pleading for someone to show me the language in the bill or show some other proof that my understanding of the bill is incorrect or that the majority is correct. that's all i'm asking for.

[Libertarian Perspective]

I thought everyone had the right of a fair trial under the Constitution. Trust me I would love to see George Bush hung, drawn and quartered but wouldn't that be betraying the principles on which the Constitution was founded upon. If you want to be a vigilante animal move to Saudi Arabia or Albania, you can kill like 3 generrations deep of family if they wronged your family or you in any way. I don't want that justice.

[Lilly Bighorn]

You still dont know how to read between the lines?

well, if what you're saying is that at some point in the future pedophilia will cease to be a crime, i have to admit i don't see that at all.

[Lilly Bighorn]

I thought everyone had the right of a fair trial under the Constitution. Trust me I would love to see George Bush hung, drawn and quartered but wouldn't that be betraying the principles on which the Constitution was founded upon. If you want to be a vigilante animal move to Saudi Arabia or Albania, you can kill like 3 generrations deep of family if they wronged your family or you in any way. I don't want that justice.

+1000

remember that scene in godfather 2 where michael corleone in exile asks where all the italian men have gone, and he's told they've all been killed in blood feuds? or something like that.

[Libertarian Perspective]

+1000

remember that scene in godfather 2 where michael corleone in exile asks where all the italian men have gone, and he's told they've all been killed in blood feuds? or something like that.

To be fair if someone would break into my house or try to hurt my family I would probably use lethal force, but if they are fortunate and get away and get caught by the police I believe they have the right to a fair trial.

[Lilly Bighorn]

You dont see anything do you?

i certainly don't see anyone proving me wrong.

[Lilly Bighorn]

To be fair if someone would break into my house or try to hurt my family I would probably use lethal force, but if they are fortunate and get away and get caught by the police I believe they have the right to a fair trial.

of course. that's totally legit. or even if you caught someone in the physical act of molesting a child outside of your home you'd be justified in using force, even under this new bill. just not hunting them down in cold blood.

[Libertarian Perspective]

The way I see it if we compromise on our principles on which Common Law is based on we might as well open the doors and allow the jackboots into our homes since they have already won. Ever heard the phrase: If you can't beat them join them, well screw them I am not joining their outfit and become a jackboot like them not giving a damn about the rule of law.

[Lilly Bighorn]

This bill will be used as a defensive argument for the search and seizure of child pornography.

 The pedophile will say he was being profiled and made an object of hatred, violating his freedoms and this bill will be used to justify the suit against law enforcement who profiled the pedo for futher investigation because of his past child abusing ways.

 Foresight..... foresight.

i give you credit, once you work your way through your pointless condescension, you make the most articulate rendering of the main idea in this thread so far. i still think, however, it reflects a serious misunderstanding of the legal process and is totally unjustified by facts or history. but you're entitled to your opinion. feel free to provide some of this history or other evidence you claim exists whenever you feel up to it.