Zeitgeist Deception - Producer no longer feels 9/11 was an inside job

[jflack]

"Evil doesn't exist because it's religious?"

Did I hear that right?

Please confirm.

[P K Duck]

Hmm... we are aware that the scientific method being promoted is the open-ended one, the one that doesn't claim to be truth, the one that results in the best approximation given the tools available, the one that is subject to review where necessary?

  What, precisely, is wrong with that?

Granted, current the scientific establishment appears to have abandoned this in their pursuit of money and status, perverting the scientific method into dogmatic statements of absolute truth, but given the content of both Zeitgeist films, I'd say the makers would agree to flush this current lot and replace them with the real thing.

What would the alternative be? A return to feudal agriculture under the tolling church bell, like the NWO seem to want? No thanks.

[Chocolaty]

Yeah, he's not doing too well in interviews, as usual.

His pantheistic ideals have been around for a long time, and I don't want any part of them. They are occult.

lol... he doesn't believe that evil exists. Give me a break man, this guy is pushing so much NWO nonsense I can't believe some people still don't see it.

If you think there is no evil you'll think there's no sin, this will open your understanding up to everything being possible for you to do. Theft, murder, adultery, rape, pedophilia are all evil, everyone knows it.

[JTCoyoté]

They are now in the Nature/Nurture debate, and Joseph is completely denying instinct, and genetic predisposition, he is stating that all we are is nurtured into us by our surroundings... this debate has been raging for centuries...

I have a coyote I have raised from the point he was ejected from his mother when she was hit by a car... overcoming his instincts has been impossible he will do certain things because it is in his genetics and his endocrine system to do them... violence, is inherent in all living creatures as a survival mechanism... whether it is developed and used or not has a lot to do with the environment in which the individual is raised...

Peter is arguing from an impossible point of view.

Coyoté

"Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants."
~ Ben Franklin

[Capt. Obvious]

  What, precisely, is wrong with that?

It's got a really bad track record of governing from people who preach it. There's nothing wrong with the scientific method. There historical have been massive failures with people claiming to be using the scientific method to justify what they do.

[flanagan]

"Evil doesn't exist because it's religious?"

Did I hear that right?

Please confirm.

that's the gist of what he said. i believe he specifically said he doesn't like the word "evil" because it has religious connotations.

[JTCoyoté]

Larger thread created during the show in the LIVE ROOM:

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=63680.0

[rawiron1]

This Zeitgeist moron is a left with communist liberal that has been licking too many LSD stamps.  He even has that drugged up, bug eyed, dreamy sounding voice.

Jason

[P K Duck]

It's got a really bad track record of governing from people who preach it. There's nothing wrong with the scientific method. There historical have been massive failures with people claiming to be using the scientific method to justify what they do.

Same could be said of any human social construct. Do we just sit around doing nothing instead?

[Dig]

What would the alternative be? A return to feudal agriculture under the tolling church bell, like the NWO seem to want?

actually it is a return to an all feudal system under the tolling "NWO" bell.

Like you said no thanks and it is not an alternative, it is the plan outlined by the CFR, Bilderberg, hundreds of years of eugenecists, and most recently the more obvious manifestation...

ZA

[Capt. Obvious]

Values don't come from the scientific method. What should be done with invalids? It depends on what you think the nature of an individual is. Then you apply the scientific method to best implement what you want to do.

If scientist say that they've used the scientific method and have determined that everyone must take a vaccine or we all die. Do we do that? Do you have a right to refuse? Depends on whether you think you have a "right" to refuse. Whether you believe you have a right comes from your notion of the nature of a human and whether there are any intrinsic rights.

Using the scientific method to govern and as the basis for making decisions turns human being into a system. Decisions are system-based. What is best for the system is what is done. That's very different than treating each person as having individual rights and letting them operate as they wish unless the infringe on the rights of others.

[jflack]

Yeah, he's not doing too well in interviews, as usual.

His pantheistic ideals have been around for a long time, and I don't want any part of them. They are occult.

lol... he doesn't believe that evil exists. Give me a break man, this guy is pushing so much NWO nonsense I can't believe some people still don't see it.

If you think there is no evil you'll think there's no sin, this will open your understanding up to everything being possible for you to do. Theft, murder, adultery, rape, pedophilia are all evil, everyone knows it.

Yes.

Ok, this is exactly why I avoided the huge Zeitgeist threads on this forum.

I don't think he's a NWO plant, I just think he is probably, honestly, confused.  I'm saying this nicely.

He admits that everything you say is learned.  Where does one learn NWO ideas and end up believing it enough to produce a film?  A film which caters mostly to those who don't believe in religion.

I'm done.  This is my first and last Zeitgeist post.

[Dig]

Same could be said of any human social construct. Do we just sit around doing nothing instead?

We actually refuse to be led into their more constricting death chambers.

We wake up and realize that we are being led to suicide.

We learn from the past so it does not repeat.

We dissolve centralized power and defend the constitution.

We do not get easily swayed by people who scream "well we have to do something."

That is how we got the patriot act, iraq war, surge, and the bailout.

We have to think for ourselves.  We have to trust ourselves and not look for an easy out in futurism.

[nowhere to run]

alex please ask him aout the many dying and rising gods
and how the historical record completely disagrees with them.

http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Challenge.html
http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/

[Capt. Obvious]

Regarding competition:

There are scarce resources. Said another way, there are not unlimited resources. Both in the sense of limit (only so much oil) and type (only one atmosphere). When two people want to do two different things with one thing, who decides the person that gets to do what they want? If I want to damn a river, and you don't, who wins? If I want to make shoes one way, and you want to make them another, who wins? If I want to make an MP3 player and you do too, who wins? The fairest way (in most situations) is to just let both people try, and the one that other people want more wins. It's all voluntary on all sides. There's no competition in the sense that you destroy the other person, but rather the best wins. In fact, people will probably use the scientific method to figure out what people would most want and what the best way to make it is using the fewest resources.

[Dig]

that's the gist of what he said. i believe he specifically said he doesn't like the word "evil" because it has religious connotations.

OMG evil only exists in religion?!?!?!

does that mean if there was no religion then Cheney/Bush/Clinton/Pelosi/Rockefeller/Rothschild/Beatrice/Strong/CFR/Bilderberg would just vanish?

Wow what an amazing intellectual.

[dsyd]

He is speaking so much bull it's impossible to keep up with how wrong he is and refute his arguments as he goes along.

Alex seemed to have him backed into a corner just there with the spider thing.

To say instinct has no effect on human behaviour is ridiculous. And he says he supports the scientific method?

[Capt. Obvious]

"humans have no instinct. There's tons of science to back this up."

ooooooooook. See this is where the scientific method gets dangerous. When they use the scientific method to determine what a human being is, and what the values of them are, is when people governing according to scientific method gets scary.

[jimwill]

Humans have no instincts? Is that what he is saying?

Isn't he trying to outdo Alex? And that's not instinct?

Oh, well - guess I'm just too dense to live in that guys universe!

[eagle74]

Alex is getting fired up

[2Revolutions]

I knew Alex would not stay calm for long. 

[thrashbassist]

Positive/negative, yin/yang, good/evil, whatever you want to call it exists, period! We are creatures with instinct, period. I enjoyed the Zeitgeist films as good food for thought, but this guy needs to wake the hell up and quit living in utopian la-la land!

[rawiron1]

He says humans and elephants don't have instincts then turns right around and says that they do.

The sky is blue, but it isn't, but it is.  Just a bunch of contradictory psycho bable.

Jason

[kenischange]

So, even though Peter J. makes the Venus Project a central theme of solution and a path for all followers to rally on (after getting the hook into people first)...today on the AJ Show he said he and those at the Venus Project do not consider the Venus Project "utopia" and they also do not claim it is THE solution. How is the Venus Project being presented in the way it is presented as THE way it needs to be in Zeitgeist Addendum not Peter J. trying to say that the Venus Project is THE solution? He has half of the new agers overlapped with half of the truth movement wanting this utopia and today said that is not what he thinks he is doing...but he is.

All the more reason for a re-edit of Zeitgeist Addendum. The only way what Peter J. said today on the AJ Show would be true is if the Venus Project was not presented as half of the movie to propagandize it and evangelize it and if he offered other different possible competing ideas. He did not.

[please do not move or merge this post, this is meant to be a general discussion post]

[DJ BALL]

Both of these guys have a lot of good things to say.
Unfortunately we get to hear them bicker.

[Geolibertarian]

Peter,

Technology can eliminate the scarcity of such things as food, clothing and shelter, but it cannot eliminate the scarcity of land (i.e., naturally-occurring geographic positions on the globe), because land is fixed in both supply and location. It is thus inevitable that there will be conflicting desires over access to the same well-situated parcels of land.

That being the case, my question is: how would such conflicts be peacefully resolved in the society you envision, if not through some sort of compensatory system for those who inevitably end up excluded from the locations they wish to occupy?

[Capt. Obvious]

"If you take a job you are participating in a corrupt system because you are taking that job from someone else."

If this isn't a scarcity mindset, I don't know what is. BTW, this is a common left-wing claim.

but if Steve Jobs didn't take the CEO job at Apple, you wouldn't have an iPod.

[squarepusher]

I was neutral on both Zeitgeist and Alex, but I think Alex is winning this (not that it even matters who is winning, I don't see it as a contest) First of all, I think this Peter Joseph needs to come off his high horse and I think he is very rude on occasions. He acts like some higher 'hive mind' - and who's he to decide that the whole human race needs to change?

[Chocolaty]

Yes.

Ok, this is exactly why I avoided the huge Zeitgeist threads on this forum.

I don't think he's a NWO plant, I just think he is probably, honestly, confused.  I'm saying this nicely.

He admits that everything you say is learned.  Where does one learn NWO ideas and end up believing it enough to produce a film?  A film which caters mostly to those who don't believe in religion.

I'm done.  This is my first and last Zeitgeist post.

I don't see innocence everywhere. I know some people are NWO plants. If you push astrotheology and attack religions with utter lies, these are PROVEN lies, if you never recant and keep them up in your second film this is very telling. All his reference work for Zeitgeist are debunked. Acharya S's position is not only the lunatic fringe as far as skeptical biblical "scholars" (she's not really a scholar) are concerned, but she keeps spewing lies. She's caught with occult images on her website. She has an occult name, same for Maxwell. This guy Peter Joseph has all the guys like this on his side to make his movies. He's pushing all these occult beliefs which the NWO are pushing. Look up astrotheology debunking site to see how asinine it really is. You cannot hold to astrotheology, there is no such thing! Anybody who's pushing that who understands all it's claims is disinfo.

Here, read this. Astrotheology as well as Jesus copycat thesis exposed for what it really is by a REAL scholar.
http://www.risen-jesus.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=109

Check this out too while you're at it. This will make it clear how ridiculous it is and why many are suspicious of the makers of Zeitgeist.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7572663630528394775

I'm really enjoying Alex Jones's debunking of Joseph Peter's bs.

[JTCoyoté]

This Guy Is A New World Order Shill!!!

Coyoté

"Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants."
~ Ben Franklin

[dsyd]

Technology can eliminate the scarcity of such things as food, clothing and shelter

Technology cannot eliminate scarcity in such things without monetary reform. It is true that money creates scarcity. Peter is right in that respect. See the writings of Silvio Gesell for more information.
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/newland-terry_on-silvio-gesell.html

But that doesn't mean that getting rid of money removes scarcity. Alex is right that we only do what we do by instinct to fulfil our desires/needs.

[Dudicus_Maximus]

AJ is blasting this guy.

[Capt. Obvious]

Technology cannot eliminate scarcity in such things without monetary reform. It is true that money creates scarcity. Peter is right in that respect. See the writings of Silvio Gesell for more information.
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/newland-terry_on-silvio-gesell.html

But that doesn't mean that getting rid of money removes scarcity. Alex is right that we only do what we do by instinct to fulfil our desires/needs.

Technology enables us to either produce things with fewer resources or produce things we wouldn't otherwise have without the technology. Really has nothing to do with the monetary system.

[Capt. Obvious]

But Alex. LET HIM SPEAK!

For real, let him dig his own ditch

[longdraw]

Both of these guys have a lot of good things to say.
Unfortunately we get to hear them bicker.

jones doesnt let him speak..he will give hime the floor for 4 seconds then cut him off.i would like to hear what the guy says.so jones doesnt agree why does he have to cut him off and yell like a madman?

[deahendock]

Where to post critics on Alex?? LOL

Peter Joseph is on and after his gentle start he gets worse then at his one-man-stampede when Rothschild was on. He acts like a gorilla throwing bananas. I dont like either the Venus Project because it leaves a lot of things open and doesnt seem to make much sense. But after 5 minutes of explaining how open Alex is for ideas he just bashed and bashes against Joseph. Totally ridicolous and not even a prober debate much less a real discussion.

[Chocolaty]

This interview needs to go as viral as the Zeitgeist movie itself. This is AMAZING.

Peter Joseph is so obvioustly NWO, everybody needs to hear this!

[dsyd]

Technology enables us to either produce things with fewer resources or produce things we wouldn't otherwise have without the technology. Really has nothing to do with the monetary system.

Yes that is true. But it is also true that we will never produce enough to satisfy all demand as long as we retain our current monetary system. Please see the link I posted previously - http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/newland-terry_on-silvio-gesell.html for a summary, or the complete original proof contained in Gesell's original work: http://www.utopie.it/pubblicazioni/gesell/teory_of_interest.htm.

[InfoTruth]

Wow Alex what the hell is wrong with you? Can you let the guy speak? I thought this was supposed to be a discussion not a heated debate. Alex you're actually treating him worse than you treated David Mayer de Rothschild. I'm very disappointed.

[Dudicus_Maximus]

This guy is a nutbar.