Zeitgeist Deception - Producer no longer feels 9/11 was an inside job

[chrisfromchi]

They can't. This is rubbish out of films, such an idea.
A machine will only do what you program it to do. Does a calculator make popcorn?
They're only as capable, as we allow them to be.

You'll allow them to program themselves and then they are perfectly capable. And its not rubbish...

Hawking warns of AI world takeover
http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,23140308,00.htm

Anything more Cylon?

[squarepusher]

They can't. This is rubbish out of films, such an idea.
A machine will only do what you program it to do. Does a calculator make popcorn?
They're only as capable, as we allow them to be.

This just goes to show that you haven't eaten your own dogfood.

In your activist handbook, you're talking about a BRAIN that will run a city or society. A freakin' brain.

That means it's going to create neural pathways on its own. So, what the hell are you talking about? How are you going to 'pre-program' the brain to stop forming new neural pathways?

How can this 'city' be a living, breathing organism on its own, self-evolving, without the ability to do what it wants?

This is not linear programming, buddy - when you talk about a SYNTHETIC BRAIN that is going to be in charge of your Plato's Republic meets Brave New World on steroids, you can't feed it simple 'IF THEN END' blocks and 'WHILE' loops.

[BrentonEccles]

Actually, you really do. But we do not always notice it because we're so ingrained into this notion. I don't mean to see that humans aren't competitive in some sense. If they weren't at all, they wouldn't have a drive to improve society and so forth. But what I mean to say is that this "nature" can be easily reoriented so that it is a collaborative behaviour rather than me fighting against you for a bit of grain, we work together. It is easy to produce this sort of behaviour in people.


AHA.  This 'nature' can easily be re-oriented.....

Ahem. And just "WHO" is going to do the 're-orientation"?

And I take it that since you did not answer the question about having children, you do not, actually have any.

No, 'competitiveness' is not taught, it is inherent in human beings.   Some more so than others.  But I guess those can be 're-oriented'.   

No it is not inherent. This is basic Science, friend. We can say it's built in as much as we want, but we are not naturally aggressive. YES, it is inherent within us to push further (out of continual percieved lack) - but that needn't be aggressive.
The reorientation is based on the most up-to-date available knowledge. For example, it's not that you don't allow religion - you just also educate people on what we know as to how nature works, etc,.

You'll allow them to program themselves and then they are perfectly capable. And its not rubbish...

Hawking warns of AI world takeover
http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,23140308,00.htm

Anything more Cylon?

This just goes to show that you haven't eaten your own dogfood.

In your activist handbook, you're talking about a BRAIN that will run a city or society. A freakin' brain.

That means it's going to create neural pathways on its own. So, what the hell are you talking about? How are you going to 'pre-program' the brain to stop forming new neural pathways?

How can this 'city' be a living, breathing organism on its own, self-evolving, without the ability to do what it wants?

This is not linear programming, buddy - when you talk about a SYNTHETIC BRAIN that is going to be in charge of your Plato's Republic meets Brave New World on steroids, you can't feed it simple 'IF THEN END' blocks and 'WHILE' loops.

Well since we're not there yet you needn't worry, and if/when such a thing is to occur, you need merely be against it (and help bring people to an understanding of how it's detrimental) or chose not to live in one of the cities.
Even so, though, a computer that can 'program' itself is still only limited to what's available to it. Much like Cron's in programming today.

[squarepusher]

Well since we're not there yet you needn't worry, and if/when such a thing is to occur, you need merely be against it (and help bring people to an understanding of how it's detrimental) or chose not to live in one of the cities.

The artificial brain is already here to stay, friend. This is old stuff we're talking about - the CIA was implanting electrodes into  the brains of bulls as far back as the late '80s - and able to remote control them physically. Transhumanist frontman Kevin Warwick has already talked about how they use a biological brain for research projects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loHCCLlQ-EM (Watch all eight parts of it)

Much like Cron's in programming today.

Cron is the equivalent of an electronic alarm clock - it is not sentient.

[chrisfromchi]

Well since we're not there yet you needn't worry, and if/when such a thing is to occur, you need merely be against it (and help bring people to an understanding of how it's detrimental) or chose not to live in one of the cities.
Even so, though, a computer that can 'program' itself is still only limited to what's available to it. Much like Cron's in programming today.

I'm against the Venus project and Zeitgeist Movement  and I help to bring people to an understanding of how its detrimental.

Its a real estate commune scam. If its not. Its a pie in the sky donation scam. You are a scam artist. You are a deceiver or a shill for them.

A shill is what carnival barkers used to sucker in ticker buyers into an act.

[Freeski]

Actually, you really do. But we do not always notice it because we're so ingrained into this notion. I don't mean to see that humans aren't competitive in some sense. If they weren't at all, they wouldn't have a drive to improve society and so forth. But what I mean to say is that this "nature" can be easily reoriented so that it is a collaborative behaviour rather than me fighting against you for a bit of grain, we work together. It is easy to produce this sort of behaviour in people.


AHA.  This 'nature' can easily be re-oriented.....

Ahem. And just "WHO" is going to do the 're-orientation"?

And I take it that since you did not answer the question about having children, you do not, actually have any.

No, 'competitiveness' is not taught, it is inherent in human beings.   Some more so than others.  But I guess those can be 're-oriented'.   

Stop repeating yourself! The question has already been unanswered. 

[Dig]

Stop repeating yourself! The question has already been unanswered. 

Zeitgeist/Venus Project Movement of the early 20th Century
(1hr 26mins)

[mr anderson]

From what I gather, something to the effect that we have the natural propensity to fight against one another in some form or another be it competing for a job, a carpark, etc,.

Fight? No. What do you call group interviews? We compete...

Do you want machines to control government and industry?

I absolutely do. The machines would "be" the government, but they'd only govern what needs to be - and that is certainly NOT people.
If you have people in the government, they'll just keep messing things up.

Then you and I have problems. No machine in will "be" the government if I have anything to do with it.

We aren't perfect but I'd rather a Ron Paul to a Diebold Congress'bot' managing water.

It's pure fantasy to think machines can be the government...so who'll service the machines? Who'll have access to them? I guess they'll follow the 3 rules?   Yeah right. Ask a SWORD what rules it follows..

[mr anderson]

Those jobs aren't boring and monotonous. Science and the arts would flourish in a resource-based economy.
We're talking about getting rid of bankers, lawyers, cleaners, limousine drivers, and all other repetitive and monotonous workplace jobs as far as possible.
Writing, music, theatre, film production, biology, chemistry, philosophy, photography, and all those things are not boring and they are not repetitive or monotonous -- they all require human beings to be creative.
Here, it is clear then, we need to distinguish between what is a monotonous job and what is not. Further, you might ask "what if someone likes their repetitive job such as cooking?" well they can do it, it's all up to each person.

So what happens to those people who no longer have a job in these fields?

And again who is the Venus Project to decide what jobs to get rid of? ? ?

My God man how's cooking repetitive? How slack do you have to be in the society?

[BrentonEccles]

We aren't perfect but I'd rather a Ron Paul to a Diebold Congress'bot' managing water.

Ron Paul cannot create fair distribution for all the worlds people. In-fact, he doesn't want to -- he just wants America to live within it's means and f**k everyone else.

The Venus Project are about to go live on a radio show http://www.blogtalkradio.com/7hunder/2009/04/08/Truth-or-Fiction -- why not ring in and raise your concerns, It'd be much appreciated.

And again who is the Venus Project to decide what jobs to get rid of? ? ?

If something CAN be automated it will be. That's not to stop people from "doing it themself" though. People still use a wooden spoon, even though electric mixers are available.

[Jackson Holly]

The reorientation is based on the most up-to-date available knowledge. For example, it's not that you don't allow religion - you just also educate people on what we know as to how nature works, etc,.

 ... back to Tabula Rasa where one branch of this thread began?

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=62764.msg470041#msg470041

[BrentonEccles]

... back to Tabula Rasa where one branch of this thread began?

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=62764.msg470041#msg470041

Well that's a working title, so don't make any assumptions (you or I) until we've seen this upcoming film.

[mr anderson]

Ron Paul cannot create fair distribution for all the worlds people. In-fact, he doesn't want to -- he just wants America to live within it's means and f**k everyone else.

Yeah I'm sure he thinks that... Actually if you listened he said to withdraw all US forces from all bases in order for those countries to be able to grow again.

It's called individual responsibility...and people need to realise if their people aren't getting their needs met, to change that Government.

And yes you may end up with a worse one, we're not perfect but that's what makes us human. If we REALLY wanted to live in freedom we'd fight for it. Well.....it doesn't seem (yet) that people want to live in freedom. However that's changing 

But the Venus project...... I'm saying NO.

And I know many, many others that'll go shoulder to shoulder with me to defeat this.

[BrentonEccles]

Yeah I'm sure he thinks that... Actually if you listened he said to withdraw all US forces from all bases in order for those countries to be able to grow again.

It's called individual responsibility...and people need to realise if their people aren't getting their needs met, to change that Government.

And yes you may end up with a worse one, we're not perfect but that's what makes us human. If we REALLY wanted to live in freedom we'd fight for it. Well.....it doesn't seem (yet) that people want to live in freedom. However that's changing 

But the Venus project...... I'm saying NO.

And I know many, many others that'll go shoulder to shoulder with me to defeat this.

He does think that. Ron Paul goes back to the world being a system of individualist nations, which work together on minute levels only.
It cant work in a world where technology is "internationlising" us. The internet, mobile phones, the fact that were realising we can work better on a unified level.
The Earth is one planet. You can call that new-age, this-and-that, but the real truth is that it's a reality. We can chose to accept that and work with it, or reject that.

It's in our hands whether this goes in the monetary-based direction of globalisation, or something much better.

Come onto this radio show, http://www.blogtalkradio.com/7hunder/2009/04/08/Truth-or-Fiction, and raise your concerns.

[mr anderson]

He does think that. Ron Paul goes back to the world being a system of individualist nations, which work together on minute levels only.
It cant work in a world where technology is "internationlising" us. The internet, mobile phones, the fact that were realising we can work better on a unified level.
The Earth is one planet. You can call that new-age, this-and-that, but the real truth is that it's a reality. We can chose to accept that and work with it, or reject that.

It's in our hands whether this goes in the monetary-based direction of globalisation, or something much better.

Come onto this radio show, http://www.blogtalkradio.com/7hunder/2009/04/08/Truth-or-Fiction, and raise your concerns.

Work better on a unified level, the earth is one planet...

Sounds like a world government?

"Ron Paul goes back to the world being a system of individualist nations"

Ya it's called Sovereignty....what a concept!

Again he isn't the Congressman of Earth, he-like all of us-can't take care of 6.5 billion people. It's up to each sovereign nation to take care of it's own people and if those nations fail to do that it is the obligation and duty for the people to change that nation's government and if they do not wish to change that government then they must 'love their servitude' as Huxley said.

[BrentonEccles]

Work better on a unified level, the earth is one planet...

Sounds like a new world order...

"Ron Paul goes back to the world being a system of individualist nations"

Ya it's called Sovereignty....what a concept!

Again he isn't the Congressman of Earth, he-like all of us-can't take care of 6.5 billion people. It's up to each sovereign nation to take care of it's own people and if those nations fail to do that it is the obligation and duty for the people to change that nation's government and if they do not wish to change that government then they must 'love their servitude' as Huxley said.

It's NOT sovereignty, it sounds like it but such a notion is a total illusion. You're just talking about enslavement to a nation, and it's structures. Nice place-words.

he isn't the Congressman of Earth

And no one will be in a RBE.

It's world unification, not government. Because there's no one's agenda to be enslaved to.
You are projecting your own values (unification=global enslavement) on this system.

[Dig]

Can someone explain how the New Zeitgeist Movement is any different than the old one?

Zeitgeist/Venus Project Movement of the early 20th Century
(1hr 26mins)

[BrentonEccles]

Can someone explain how the New Zeitgeist Movement is any different than the old one?

Zeitgeist/Venus Project Movement of the early 20th Century
(1hr 26mins)

Stop going back to this, because you know it's empty.
The Communism 'issue' has been addressed so many times.

[chrisfromchi]

Stop going back to this, because you know it's empty.
The Communism 'issue' has been addressed so many times.

I know your a Scam artist, deceiver and a Cylon.

[BrentonEccles]

I know your a Scam artist, deceiver and a Cylon.

Ad-hom attacks are totally irrelevant.

[chrisfromchi]

Ad-hom attacks are totally irrelevant.

Lawyer Cylon then. worst kind

[BrentonEccles]

Lawyer Cylon then. worst kind

No Cylon-anything.
I'm here merely to discuss, and try dispel things that are false about this direction.

[Unintelligable Name]

No Cylon-anything.
I'm here merely to discuss, and try dispel things that are false about this direction.

About a 100 posts later and you've managed to grunt and moan on the boulder without moving it one inch.

Let's go for 200 and check our results.

[chrisfromchi]

No Cylon-anything.
I'm here merely to discuss, and try dispel things that are false about this direction.

A futuristic world run by computers and robots? You've stated that many many times already.

Those are Cylons. And they had a plan too, just like you new age scammers do with this.

[BrentonEccles]

About a 100 posts later and you've managed to grunt and moan on the boulder without moving it one inch.

Let's go for 200 and check our results.

I have got somewhere.
A lot of my points have been totally ignored, but I don't mind at all.

I just love talking about this.

[Magnumpi]

The Fresco book covered children, too. Up till age 5 all they do is learn an inferiority complex. So, naturally, from the womb to the education center, if i recall.

[mr anderson]

It's NOT sovereignty, it sounds like it but such a notion is a total illusion. You're just talking about enslavement to a nation, and it's structures. Nice place-words.
And no one will be in a RBE.

It's world unification, not government. Because there's no one's agenda to be enslaved to.
You are projecting your own values (unification=global enslavement) on this system.

Sovereignty is enslavement to a nation?  

So I guess for example...the constitution of the US is the enslavement manifesto?

World unification...in what means?

[chrisfromchi]

I have got somewhere.

I just love talking about this.

No. You make no point about anything of substance beyond the canned Zeitgeist marketing terms, devious debate techniques repeating quotes of scientists and philosophers that you have cherry picked their theories, and your creepy admiration for a 93 year old front-man's real estate commune scam.

[BrentonEccles]

Sovereignty is enslavement to a nation?  

So I guess for example...the constitution of the US is the enslavement manifesto?

World unification...in what means?

The Constitution is, because it's a document based on language. Unfortunately that can be continually reinterpreted to suit a person, they just don't work. We see that with all Constitutions, and you're from Australia right? You surely have at least some grasp of how problematic our Constitution is!?!

World unification in terms of our common needs. Everyone needs to eat, have clean (non-poisoned) water, have clothing, have an relevant education (one that can be applied for the improvement of self and therefore society), etc,. We unify to meet our common needs. This doesn't mean "Australia," "United States of America" etc don't exist. It's insane to think that would go, but the purpose of a nation would be very different. Today nations are basically corporate structures. The job of the government is to "do the business" of the nation, in the interests of only the nation itself, etc,.

a 93 year old front-man's real estate commune scam.

That is insane. That's just land he lives, on and where he works. People who meet and work at a High School are not Communists because they all work on the same land.

[chrisfromchi]

That is insane. That's just land he lives, on and where he works. People who meet and work at a High School are not Communists because they all work on the same land.

Real Estate Commune Scam

You plan on building a City for the Future. --- buildings + land = Real Estate = Ecuador where you said he is running off to soon.

You live in a group of people who think and act like you in this City , separated from those around you who don't live the way you live with the cylon robots; is a commune of like minded people.

Since this "project" is never materializing ever, and you are in sad denial about this. The Venus project and whatever organization is scamming people for money with a dance and a show. You are either blind to this for your own reasons or are part of it.

[BrentonEccles]

Real Estate Commune Scam

You plan on building a City for the Future. --- buildings + land = Real Estate = Ecuador where you said he is running off to soon.

You live in a group of people who think and act like you in this City , separated from those around you who don't live the way you live with the cylon robots; is a commune of like minded people.

Since this "project" is never materializing ever, and you are in sad denial about this. The Venus project and whatever organization is scamming people for money with a dance and a show. You are either blind to this for your own reasons or are part of it.

It may not be Ecuador, don't take my word for it (he has had speaking arrangements with a mayor in Ecuador). He has also spoken with people in Turkey, they want to build a Venus Project city there.

You can call it a scam, or an empty idea, all you like. But that doesn't make it true. This is the same sort of "taunting" that the people who wanted to start the free-market back during the American Revolution went through: "It'll never work." Absolute nonsense.

[RonPaulRocks]

It may not be Ecuador, don't take my word for it (he has had speaking arrangements with a mayor in Ecuador). He has also spoken with people in Turkey, they want to build a Venus Project city there.

You can call it a scam, or an empty idea, all you like. But that doesn't make it true. This is the same sort of "taunting" that the people who wanted to start the free-market back during the American Revolution went through: "It'll never work." Absolute nonsense.

[mr anderson]

The Constitution is, because it's a document based on language. Unfortunately that can be continually reinterpreted to suit a person, they just don't work. We see that with all Constitutions, and you're from Australia right? You surely have at least some grasp of how problematic our Constitution is!?!

World unification in terms of our common needs. Everyone needs to eat, have clean (non-poisoned) water, have clothing, have an relevant education (one that can be applied for the improvement of self and therefore society), etc,. We unify to meet our common needs. This doesn't mean "Australia," "United States of America" etc don't exist. It's insane to think that would go, but the purpose of a nation would be very different. Today nations are basically corporate structures. The job of the government is to "do the business" of the nation, in the interests of only the nation itself, etc,.

And who oversees such a monumental unification?

There in lies the point, it won't be anyone out for the interets of humanity. Anyone who geniuinely wants to help people through this  Venus Project will be capped and replaced with psychopaths who want to regulate, control, track, trace, reduce population and maintain a society of slaves in compact mega-cities where 98% of the Earth is off-limits.

[mr anderson]

I know a Cylon.

Lmao...I doubt that too.

[Freeski]

Zeitgeist/Venus Project Movement of the early 20th Century
(1hr 26mins)

I'd rather watch the Obaaaaama AC/DC "Done With Sheep" video a few more hundred times, thank you very much.    (unless of course this link isn't about the wonderfulness of the utopian Venus Project)

[White Rose Sophie]

No it is not inherent. This is basic Science, friend. We can say it's built in as much as we want, but we are not naturally aggressive. YES, it is inherent within us to push further (out of continual percieved lack) - but that needn't be aggressive.
The reorientation is based on the most up-to-date available knowledge. For example, it's not that you don't allow religion - you just also educate people on what we know as to how nature works, etc,.
Well since we're not there yet you needn't worry, and if/when such a thing is to occur, you need merely be against it (and help bring people to an understanding of how it's detrimental) or chose not to live in one of the cities.
Even so, though, a computer that can 'program' itself is still only limited to what's available to it. Much like Cron's in programming today.

No it is not inherent. This is basic Science, friend. We can say it's built in as much as we want, but we are not naturally aggressive. YES, it is inherent within us to push further (out of continual percieved lack) - but that needn't be aggressive.

PROVE IT

Seems like there is 3000+ years of history backing up my assertion.  What backs up yours?

The reorientation is based on the most up-to-date available knowledge. For example, it's not that you don't allow religion - you just also educate people on what we know as to how nature works, etc,.

RE-EDUCATE?  WHO is responsible for re-educating the 'people' as to how 'nature' works?

Well since we're not there yet you needn't worry, and if/when such a thing is to occur, you need merely be against it (and help bring people to an understanding of how it's detrimental) or chose not to live in one of the cities.

So, I don't need to worry my little blonde head about it, since we're "NOT" there yet?  And I can 'choose' not to live in one of the cities?  But then, how would all those 'resources' be re-allocated?  Oh...lemme guess.  If I choose NOT to live in one of those cities...then I would not be 'allocated' any resources...would I?  Hmmmm.  Do I need a chip for my 'allocation'?   

[Freeski]

Okay, we've heard both sides so how about a vote? All in favour of the Venus Project say "aye". Brenton, can you add a poll to the thread?

[BrentonEccles]

If I choose NOT to live in one of those cities...then I would not be 'allocated' any resources...would I?

Well that would depend. If you want Science and Technology to produce your abundance then fine, but if you want to cultivate your own crops and live off the land then that's perfectly fine.

I'll answer everything later. I'm expecting a call from a newspaper tonight, cant miss it.

[Freeski]

Well that would depend. If you want Science and Technology to produce your abundance then fine, but if you want to cultivate your own crops and live off the land then that's perfectly fine.

I'll answer everything later. I'm expecting a call from a newspaper tonight, cant miss it.

Tell the newspaper EVERYTHING. Tell them that freedom CAN work!

[BrentonEccles]

Tell the newspaper EVERYTHING. Tell them that freedom CAN work!

Has a localised readership of about 50,000.