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Author Topic: Zeitgeist Deception - Producer no longer feels 9/11 was an inside job  (Read 343741 times)
BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2680 on: April 05, 2009, 07:31:05 PM »

I agree that we have stop playing their game.
Well, the only way to do that is to stop supporting their structures.
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2681 on: April 05, 2009, 07:33:01 PM »

         ZEITGEIST                                   ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM
(Religion + 911False flag+NWO Plans=  Anger, Fear   =  "Venus Project"
     \                             /               \            /         \                   /
        Problem                                  Reaction                   Solution   


"Reallocation of Resources"....."Sustainability"..........

Nothing changes but the buzzwords.

Um....exactly WHO would be in charge of the "Reallocation of Resources"? 
 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Nobody. You don't have to allocate resources when there's enough to go around for everyone.
The same follows that if all of a sudden it started raining money for 3 months... people would not be allocating or rationing their money out to buy things... it'd just be seen for the worthless paper it is and people would probably roll up tobacco in it, throw excess in the bin, etc,.
You make things available to everyone, and then you don't need to ration anything.
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Magnumpi
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« Reply #2682 on: April 05, 2009, 07:36:20 PM »

You make things available to everyone, and then you don't need to ration anything.

But what if you don't make it available to everyone?
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Dig
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« Reply #2683 on: April 05, 2009, 07:36:21 PM »

Ofcourse I do.

Thought so



Quote
It doesn't matter what any of them said. They operated in the same systems that we have and are. Namely monetary systems, legal systems, politics and so forth.
They (including the Communists) never have and never will seek to remove those things from the running of society. They don't have that frame of reference, they're all inherently corrupt monetary systems.

The elite are only as powerful as you decide they are. On top of that, they are only as powerful as the social structures while WE support those structures.
Their power is not -quite- as ingrained as you are saying, stop feeling so powerless as you do. All it takes is for us to stop supporting them and their 'empire' falls just as others have in history.

Nothing really matters does it?  History does not matter, money does not matter, government does not matter, authority does not matter, etc.

Well that is definitely the first level of seduction into the occult, but when you rise in the ranks you find out the truth concerning the philosophy of the wizards behind the curtain.  Then you will finally find out the secret "truth" according to Rothchild/Rockefeller/Beatrix...people do not matter! 

SOYLENT GREEN WILL BE THE NUMBER ONE FOOD FOR THE VENUS PROJECT...

RENEW RENEW RENEW
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Freeski
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« Reply #2684 on: April 05, 2009, 07:37:12 PM »

Well, the only way to do that is to stop supporting their structures.

Agreed
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"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
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« Reply #2685 on: April 05, 2009, 07:37:56 PM »

Basically, in a Resource-based Economy you don't need to save money in order to go on a holiday.
You want to go to China? Fine, go.

The Venus Project:
The concept of no money and the acquisition of goods at a grocery store



Excerpt from October 15th, 2008 Interview between Alex Jones and Zeitgeist creator Paul Joseph...
PJ: "For example, in this society, let's say that you wanted to go to the grocery store. Well guess what, you go in, you get what you need, and you leave. That's it. Why. Why would no one steal? Because there is no reason to, they can't sell it. There is no money. There is no reason for differential advantage in a position where you can't actually engage in gaining something through abuse in society. This is a core point in why money is such a horrible invention for control. Money is the ultimate divide and conquer...."


Now there can be a few interpretations to this and I do not know which is correct. 

Interpretation 1:
Let us say that he really is talking about a world where you can truly just go in a store, take everything and it will magically reappear for the next customer.  I guess that is one possibility in the future world and thus is a valid interpretation


Interpretation 2:
Another interpretation would be that people would be conditioned* to only take what they need and would never ever have any desire for more than that and then the communal "family"** would be able to stock what everyone needs for that week and people would just come in and take the amount they have been pre-conditioned to want. Then the next would take only what they were preconditioned to want, and so on and so forth.  The store would be supplied via RetailLink type Wal-Mart control mechanisms and time sensitive allocation systems so that the workers/robots would be pre-programed to create/supply/distribute what was required within the preset boundaries in the master social distribution program. 

I have never seen this function in a society and think the previous interpretation might be more based in reality given man's natural competitive instincts. AJ has pointed this out on numerous occasions in the interview and admits to it being a part of his innate triggers.  PJ finally admits that man is a combination of innate desires and conditioning, but gives much more dominance to the conditioned side of man rather than the inate and non-conditioned personality/makeup.  But let us say that NWO via technology is able to condition us fully out of any competitive sense whatsoever. Then it may be conceivably possible to convert us into content humans, only having desires for products that we were pre-conditioned to want.  I suppose this is another acceptable interpretation of the "future grocery store" statement by PJ.


Interpretation 3:
There is a third interpretation that I do not think is particularly more or less "correct" but should be considered nonetheless. It actually fits in very nicely to NWO documents/CFR document/Bilderberg plans and Project Blue Beam plans.  Just read the following concerning cash and the absense of barter in the New World Order agenda (BTW Aaron Russo also talked about this when he exposed his conversation with Rockefeller):

NWO's Project Blue Beam written in 1994:

Phasing Out Cash & Independence

The techniques used in the fourth step is exactly the same used in the past in the USSR to force the people to accept Communism. The same technique will be used by the United Nations to implement the new world religion and the new world order. ...According to the many reports we have received, we believe it will begin with some kind of worldwide economic disaster. Not a complete crash, but enough to allow them to introduce some kind of in-between currency before they introduce their electronic cash to replace all paper or plastic money. The in-between currency will be used to force anyone with savings to spend or turn in their cash because they understand that people who have money and are not dependent upon them might be the very ones who will mount an insurrection against them. If everyone is broke, no one can fund a war of any kind: paper currency will cease to exist. This is one of the first signs.

So imagine the store analogy again...

PJ: "...you go in, you get what you need, and you leave."


Your implanted microchip recognizes your account, the individual items have their own chips in them, the doorway records the items and your implanted microchip. So then your socialized allowance gets marked as being given these individual items.

PJ: "That's it. Why. Why would no one steal? Because there is no reason to, they can't sell it. There is no money."

Of course no one will be allowed to sell anything.  Every single item will not only have a unique product code, but also a unique code/serial number for that specific good or service itself.  Just try buying a computer at a store, they now have individual identifyers where before they only had product numbers.  Every individual item is now slowly being tracked.  In additiion, it is not inconceivable that in the very near future home doorways (and probably waste receptacles to ensure proper recycling or termination of product use/consumption) will probably also have monitoring devices.  This would then track every single unique and numbered product that enters your doorway.  They will verify that they were taken from the store and that it was recorded that you as an individual took them from the store and that you were allowed through your allowance to take them from the store. This tracking will be based on your implanted chip, the chips in the products, and the gates/doorway tracking systems that you enter. We have already seen peculiar tracking devices on major roadways to track the goods and services in trucks. It is conceivable that this would also be done with cars.

PJ: "...There is no reason for differential advantage in a position where you can't actually engage in gaining something through abuse in society....

And then comes the socialist doctrine again: protections from abuse in society, not abuses to individuals, only in society or rather 'to' society or to the 'family.' Of course the grid/matrix will be set up so that you cannot create a 'ABUSE IN SOCIETY'.  There obviously will be 'TECHNOLOGY' to eradicate any 'ABUSE IN SOCIETY.'

PJ: "...This is a core point in why money is such a horrible invention for control. Money is the ultimate divide and conquer...."

I think he is again referring to cash and if so he could be seeing that cash and the hoarding of cash could be seen as a threat to "society" and socialized structures.   When he says "horrible invention for control" he is possibly meaning individual control over socialized constructs.  Money allows individual control, allows for the individual to use it as a common form of exchange for grnting the individual control over the societal limitations controlled via a central construct. During the great depression, the socialists were able to conduct gold seizures from homes because of it being a threat to "society."  The funny thing is, PJ mentions this in his first flick.  But I find doublespeak and Problem/Reaction/Solution agendas all over his films.


=======================

Well the point I would like to make is that the first 2 interpretations in my mind are unrealistic whereas the last one is actually an NWO plan.  I have no idea what PJ was thinking when he said this stuff, but many false leaders have been set up by NWO to preach intricate false paradigms where the hidden agenda is sometimes in plain view.

=======================


*More on NWO's conditioning technology: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=62764.msg341789#msg341789
...Concerning the re-education and re-conditioning agenda (according to PJ and NWO literature, common man is solely a product of environment, so the NWO is actively researching ways to change the past/present/future environments for re-conditioning of the human):
"...James V. McConnell which was published in a 1970s issue of Psychology Today. He said, 'The day has come when we can combine sensory deprivation with drug hypnosis and astute manipulation of reward and punishment to gain almost absolute control over an individual's behavior. It should then be possible to achieve a very rapid and highly effective type of positive brainwashing that would allow us to make dramatic changes in a person's behavior and personality.'..."

**More on the Zeitgeist concept of "communal family" here: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=62764.msg341753#msg341753
...AJ: "You are mentioning all these...clearly in the context...all these terrible outmodded things, and I read all the social worker books about how the family is a disease and all this, and I am asking is the family a good thing or is it going to go bye bye too?"

PJ: "Of course the family is a good thing, the family is a natural institution. Family is where people will return to in this type of situation. But there will be a different association, because the family will become the group community in many ways. The extentionality that we feel, this thing we call love is not restricted to your little group or your family."

If that response does not scare the living shit out of you, I do not know what else will.

Initially in the response, he says the family is a good thing.  In that sense he is using the communal, the collective term family.  Then later at the end of the response, he uses the word family in the sense AJ means it...parents, siblings, your household that you grew up with.  In that sense he connects it with a demeaning term "little group" to mean that localization of power, localization of love, localization of social structures will obviously be subservient to the larger collective "family."

AJ got distracted when he used the word "love" (because PJ was supposedly above such terms) that he never addressed this total Pol Pot type thinking concerning the family (watch the Killing Fields for more info on this).  The family is the strongest local set of power and any NWO future plans include the breakup of the family (why do you think there are generational incestuous criminals given many jobs and no sentence? Why do you think CPS can come at any moment and steal children from their parents, etc.).  This is a major issue and it got revealed in the interview.

PJ then talks about how there will no longer be any CPS to destroy the family. In this sense he is again talking of the collective family who would of course not need CPS because all children would already be brought up in CPS environments.  Really a troubling NWO world he is projecting whether he knows it or not.
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2686 on: April 05, 2009, 07:39:15 PM »

Are you actually seriously going to discuss this or just keep bring up pointless nonsense?
The elite, again, are only as powerful as you allow them to be.

Quote
Nothing really matters does it?  History does not matter, money does not matter, government does not matter, authority does not matter, etc.
It's not that they don't matter and that we can go around being irresponsible gruffs. Government does matter, all those things matter. But the question is, are they what we really need -- or we can we go for something much better?
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2687 on: April 05, 2009, 07:42:41 PM »

Quote
PJ: "For example, in this society, let's say that you wanted to go to the grocery store. Well guess what, you go in, you get what you need, and you leave. That's it. Why. Why would no one steal? Because there is no reason to, they can't sell it. There is no money. There is no reason for differential advantage in a position where you can't actually engage in gaining something through abuse in society. This is a core point in why money is such a horrible invention for control. Money is the ultimate divide and conquer...."

Now there can be a few interpretations to this and I do not know which is correct. 
Well, any notion of that occurring through technological control is totally incorrect. In a Resource-based Economy the control of people through technology would not exist. Technology would be to monitor the Earth, not people.

Quote
world where you can truly just go in a store, take everything and it will magically reappear for the next customer.
Machine automation is already doing that sort of stuff. This is not some magical mystical notion.
Machines can easily keep an abundant supply of resources up for us.
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2688 on: April 05, 2009, 07:49:50 PM »

It doesn't matter what the "NWO" is aiming for.
They can want to do whatever they want, but they still need the consent (manipulative or otherwise) of the public.

Therefore, all it takes is for US (the supporters they need to keep things up) to change.
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« Reply #2689 on: April 05, 2009, 07:50:16 PM »

Are you actually seriously going to discuss this or just keep bring up pointless nonsense?
The elite, again, are only as powerful as you allow them to be.
It's not that they don't matter and that we can go around being irresponsible gruffs. Government does matter, all those things matter. But the question is, are they what we really need -- or we can we go for something much better?

Seriously discuss what?  You are proposing that the individuals responsible for crimes against humanity be held harmless for their actions and that we instead create the New World Order that they have been begging for.  They have been begging for this for the past 100 years.  So your plan is to reward them for genociding over 100 million people by enacting their plans.

Exactly how do you propose this be discussed?

Serially!
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2690 on: April 05, 2009, 07:53:27 PM »

Seriously discuss what?  You are proposing that the individuals responsible for crimes against humanity be held harmless for their actions and that we instead create the New World Order that they have been begging for.  They have been begging for this for the past 100 years.  So your plan is to reward them for genociding over 100 million people by enacting their plans.

Exactly how do you propose this be discussed?

Serially!
The elite system you're talking about is not a resource-based economy. It's basically a continuing and fortification of the system that we're living in now. To say anything otherwise would be a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

I am not proposing that we hold them innocent, but at the same time, going on a murderous rampage against them will do absolutely nothing to fix our problems - infact that'd be a repeat by us of exactly what 'they've' done. You don't fight fire with fire, because it just doesn't work.
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2691 on: April 05, 2009, 07:55:27 PM »

Seriously discuss what?  You are proposing that the individuals responsible for crimes against humanity be held harmless for their actions and that we instead create the New World Order that they have been begging for.  They have been begging for this for the past 100 years.  So your plan is to reward them for genociding over 100 million people by enacting their plans.

Exactly how do you propose this be discussed?

Serially!
I propose that you do the research for yourself, and come to an understanding of what a resource-based economy is. I'm not asking you to black-and-white unquestioningly support anything, but rather to educate yourself.

Orientation PDF 09 and in Video Format.
A short Essay on what a resource-based economy is with an introductory video.

Learn by understanding, rather than making assumptions.
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chrisfromchi
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« Reply #2692 on: April 05, 2009, 08:00:40 PM »

Learn by understanding, rather than making assumptions.

Do you want me to tell you why it won't work?
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2693 on: April 05, 2009, 08:01:58 PM »

Do you want me to tell you why it won't work?
You're quite welcome to voice why you think it wont.
I'm here to discuss.
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White Rose Sophie
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« Reply #2694 on: April 05, 2009, 08:02:49 PM »

The elite system you're talking about is not a resource-based economy. It's basically a continuing and fortification of the system that we're living in now. To say anything otherwise would be a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

I am not proposing that we hold them innocent, but at the same time, going on a murderous rampage against them will do absolutely nothing to fix our problems - infact that'd be a repeat by us of exactly what 'they've' done. You don't fight fire with fire, because it just doesn't work.

Obviously, it sounds like the way you think we should fight fire, is immersing ourselves in it.

Let me ask you something which you have (yet) not answered.  WHO decides the 'allocation of resources"?
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2695 on: April 05, 2009, 08:07:21 PM »

Obviously, it sounds like the way you think we should fight fire, is immersing ourselves in it.

Let me ask you something which you have (yet) not answered.  WHO decides the 'allocation of resources"?
Nope, in the continuation of analogies, I think we eliminate the fuel.

Since there is an abundance of resources, they don't have to allocated in the traditional way. We use technology to create an abundance of resources, so if you want something you get it. If there IS a scarcity of a resource we work right away to eliminate that scarcity.

Please, if you wish to understand questions like "Who decides who gets what?" (which is an erroneous question but I'm happy to try and reconcile understanding) inform yourself:
Activism Orientation Video
Orientation PDF
Resource-based Economy Essay
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« Reply #2696 on: April 05, 2009, 08:11:16 PM »

Well, any notion of that occurring through technological control is totally incorrect. In a Resource-based Economy the control of people through technology would not exist. Technology would be to monitor the Earth, not people.
Machine automation is already doing that sort of stuff. This is not some magical mystical notion.
Machines can easily keep an abundant supply of resources up for us.

I think you are also completely confused about what a resource based economy is.  A resource based economy is feudalism and amounts to intergenerational slavery by those who believe that the mass of mankind has been born with saddles on their backs, with a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately.

Please git urself edumacated as to what resource management actually is:

 

George Hunt initially wanted to buy a ticket but this proved to be much too expensive ($650). At the conference he noticed it had very little to do with the conventional environment movement and was surprised to see people like Maurice Strong, Edmund de Rothschild (Pilgrims Society), David Rockefeller (Pilgrims Society), and James A. Baker (Pilgrims Society; Cap & Gown; trustee American Institute for Contemporary German Studies; Atlantic Council of the United States; National Security Planning Group; Bohemian Grove; CFR; Carlyle; advisor George W. Bush in his 2000 election). In his two videos, produced in 1989 and 1992, he plays audio recordings of several of the 1987 speakers, including Maurice Strong and Edmund de Rothschild (71). There's not really a reason to label these recordings a hoax (to use UFO community language) and subsequently denounce George Hunt as a fraud. In fact, Hunt could hardly have done a better job at presenting his evidence. However, some of the evidence this person has uncovered is so amazing, that most people will remain skeptical (like me), no matter how much evidence is presented. If what Hunt is claiming is true, then it confirms the overall picture that has been sketched in this article. First take a look at the following Fourth World Wilderness Conference (1987) statement from David Lang (spelling unknown; a Montreal banker, according to Hunt):

"I suggest therefore that this be sold not through a democratic process - that would take too long and devour far too much of the funds - to educate the cannon fodder, unfortunately, that populates the earth. We have to take almost an elitist program, [so] that we can see beyond our swollen bellies, and look to the future in timeframes and in results which are not easily understood, or which can be, with intellectual honesty, be reduced down to some kind of simplistic definition."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is impossible to claim knowledge of what a resource based economy is without understanding the leaked report from Iron Mountain: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/iron_mountain.htm

In 1961, the Kennedy administration ordered a "Top Secret" study to determine what problems the United States would face if the world moved from an era of war to a golden age of peace. In other words, how to bring America into the New World Order. By 1963 the selection of the specialist had been made. This study group consisted of 15 experts in various academic disciplines who were selected for their expertise in their various fields. The first and last meetings were in an underground nuclear survival retreat called Iron Mountain.

In the same year that this "Top Secret" study was called, 1961, The Department of State put out a publication (#7277) called "Freedom From War, The United States Program for a General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World". This publication describes a three step program to disarm the American military, shut down bases and have one military under the United Nations. This "military" would be the world wide police force to be used as "peace keepers" throughout the world. The plan would include that "all weapons of mass destruction" be eliminated with the exception of "those required for a United Nations Peace Force" (page 12 paragraph one). In order to "keep the peace, all states will reaffirm their obligations under the UN Charter to refrain from the threat of use of any type armed force" (page 16, Paragraph eight) To support the UN Charter, the average citizen will need to be disarmed; so they cannot defend themselves against these "peace keepers". You don't have to watch much news to see that today, the UN forces are used as "peace keepers" throughout the world, disarming people so they can't defend themselves against oppressive governments. To quote Sarah Brady, Chair of Handguncontrol, Inc. "Our Task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."

I also want to point out the interesting things that happened in the mid 1960's: The protests against the war in Vietnam. The protests against Nuclear Arms. The protests for arms reduction......Much of these protests were done by college students. Many who graduated and became the doctors, lawyers, people in politics, and even the President for today.

In 1963, the same year as the selection of specialists for this "Top Secret" study, President John F. Kennedy made an astounding statement. On November 13, while speaking at Columbus University, Pres. Kennedy stated, "The high office of the President of the United States of America has been used to foment a plot to destroy America's freedom, and before I leave office, I must inform the citizens of their plight! Ten days later, President John F. Kennedy was shot and killed.

The study was completed in 1966. President Johnson gave the order that the report was never to be released, due to the nature of the conclusions reached. The purpose of this Report was to see what it would take to bring the United States into a New World Order. The "experts" decided that the American people were not intelligent enough to understand what "big brother" had decided for them; and what "big brother" would need to do to accomplish what was decided for them. If the truth came out too soon, the American people would be able to stop it.

To quote directly from the cover letter of this report: (paragraph three) "Because of the unusual circumstances surrounding the establishment of this Group, and in view of the nature of its finding, we do not recommend that this Report be released for publication...such actions would not be in the PUBLIC INTEREST (emphasis mine)..a lay reader, unexposed to the exigencies of higher political or military responsibility, will misconstrue the purpose of this project, and the intent... We urge that the circulation of the Report be closely restricted to those who's responsibilities require that they be apprised of its contents..." Those who responsibilities require they know? Would this be the people who will be working to bring us into a New world Order?

One man involved in the study elected to release it to the general public. He did it at great risk to himself using the name John Doe. Mr. Do must have believed the American people were smart enough to decide for themselves if they wanted to loose their freedom to a "golden age of peace". After John Doe released the information, the Establishment renounced it saying it was a hoax. There are not many copies of this Report left. Some large libraries have copies and it would be worth the effort to check it out. This in itself would be proof it is not a hoax.

There are very interesting terms used and repeated throughout the report. Some of these include "general condition of peace", "functions of war", "change social structure", "problems of peace", "transition of world peace", replacing the "function of war", "saving the species" (man), "disarmament transition", "social control", "selective population control", "gross population control" and "loss of national sovereignty".

The stated purpose of this Report (taken from the first paragraph of the cover letter) is:

to consider the problems involved in the contingency of a transition to a general condition of peace, and

To recommend procedures for dealing with this contingency. " We will do our best to capture the basic message in this report.
This 34 page report basically deals with the "functions of War" and how to replace those "functions" with other options. So there can be peace and the "species" (man) can survive.

THE IRON MOUNTAIN REPORT

The introduction of this Report shows some interesting observations this group came up with during their 2 1/2 year study. If there came a "condition of world peace" (paragraph three) it would change the social structures of all the nations of the world. There is nothing that has happened to compare with the change that would occur in such an instance. They point out that there would be consequences to peace. Not just the economy, but every other aspect of life would be touched also. It would touch the "political, sociological, cultural, and ecological" aspects. The reason they included these aspects in their study is that the world (at that time) was totally unprepared to cover all the demands that would come in these areas in such a situation of peace. They conclude that at the end of the report they give their recommendations for what they believe to be a "practical and necessary course of action." (paragraph six)

These 15 experts set you straight in the first section that they are doing to be totally objective in their study. (Section one, paragraph five) They made a "continuously self-conscious effort" to keep the values of "good" and "bad". They admit that it wasn't easy, but as far as they could tell, it had never been done before. The previous studies for peace had taken certain things into consideration:"...the importance of human life, the superiority of democratic institutions, the greatest 'good' for the greatest number, the 'dignity' of the individual, the desirability of maximum healthier and longevity,...." These experts did not. Instead they attempted to "....apply the standards of physical science...." and go on to quote Whitehead who said, "...ignores all judgments of value; for instance, all esthetics and moral judgments."

In other words, people the idea of human rights, and the value of human life are not at all taken into consideration in the putting together of the Report. They took their assignment, and decided how they could take care of all the problems without considering the people involved. In this report, as you will see, human beings are being brought down to the level of herds of animals.

Section four is interesting. (War and Peace as Social Systems). They point out that wars are not "caused" because of international conflicts of interest. (paragraph seven). They further comment that "...war-making, active or contemplated, is a matter of life and death on the greatest scale subject to social control..." In paragraph six of this same section, they comment that the "threats" against the "national interest" are created or accelerated to "meet the changing needs of the war system". This will be in more detail in the next section, where they discuss the "Functions of War". (Section five) for each section, along with their "Substitutes for the Functions of War (Section six). We will include booth the "functions" and the "substitutes" under each heading.

FUNCTION OF WAR / SUBSTITUTES FOR THE FUNCTIONS OF WAR

They go into great detail on the "Functions of War" (Section five) and the "Substitutes for the Functions of War" (Section six). The areas covered are: economic, political, sociological, ecological, cultural and scientific. These areas are all affected by the "functions of war" so they will have to find "substitutes for the functions of war" in order to have peace. see: Silent Weapons For a Quiet War

ECONOMIC

One "function of war" is that it uses organized violence to defend or advance "national interest". They believe it is necessary for a military establishment to "create a need for it's unique powers" (Section five, paragraph two)

Another major "function of war" is that it produces waste. This waste is a means to control surpluses. It also produces jobs and industrial advancement. War, basically, stimulates the economy. Paragraph eight states, "It is, and has been the essential economic stabilizer of modern societies."

In section six, they come up with options that can replace war. They have two criteria: they must be wasteful, and must operate outside the normal supply and demand system. They make a list of social welfare programs, such as heath and housing. But they comment that there is a weakness in changing the money form the military spending to social-welfare. Unless it was run like the military , "subject to arbitrary control". (paragraph 12) This control would com in the form of building (public housing--medical centers) that can be accelerated or stopped, depending on what it would take to create a stable economy. Another option would be a series of "giant space research programs". (paragraph 13)

POLITICAL

One "function of war" in the political sense, is that war is "virtually synonymous with nationhood" (paragraph two) War has been essential for nations to exist independently. So, with "peace", nations lose their national sovereignty.

So a "substitute for the function of war" politically would have to come up with something that would be compatible with no national sovereignty. Nations can still exist in the "administrative sense" (paragraph two). But there would have to be institutions, such as a "World Court or a United Nations" that had the real authority.

One of the things considered was generating a type of space enemy. They acknowledge that, "...most ambitious and unrealistic space project cannot of itself generate a believable eternal menace...."(paragraph seven) Even the "flying saucer instances" were not encouraging enough to be used to unite "....mankind against the danger of destruction by 'creatures' from other planets...."

An effective substitute for war, would require "alternate enemies". (paragraph seven) They go on to say that a "gross pollution of the environment" could eventually replace the mass destruction by nuclear weapons, as a "threat to the survival of the species", (meaning humans). In paragraph eight, they go on to say that "...Poisoning of the air, and the principles sources of food and water supply, is already well advanced,". This, at first glance, would seem to be promising. But they go on to say, "...by present indications it will be a generation to a generation and a half before environmental pollution, however severe, will be sufficiently menacing, on a global scale....." In other words, pollution can offer a solution to get rid of the population that nuclear war does; and it's already being done, but it would take a generation to a generation and a half to accomplish the desired goal. They go on to explain that the rate of population could be "increased selectively". (paragraph nine) If there was a "modifying of existing programs" that deter the pollution, it could speed up the process to make this solution credible sooner.

Paragraph ten stresses the fact that even though some of the alternate enemies mentioned may seem unlikely, they are sure that one must be found. It must be of "...credible quality and magnitude, if a transition to peace is ever to come without social disintegration. Plain English? There must be some type of "disaster" found that will unite the nations to come under one roof.

SOCIOLOGICAL

The "function of war" in this section is, in the author of this report's opinion, an insult to human intelligence. In the third paragraph, they discuss the fact that military service has a "patriotic" priority in society. This as an idea needs to be "maintained for its own sake". It can be used as a "...control device over the hostile, nihilistic, and potential unsettling elements of society in transition, (meaning, though they don't use the term, people) the draft can again be defended, and quite convincingly, as a 'military' necessity." They go on in the fourth paragraph that the "...armed forces in every civilization have provided....state-supported haven .....for the 'unemployable'..." They go on to comment that a replacement for this "function of war" must "involve a real risk of personal destruction..." If the substitute doesn't provide a believable life and death threat, it will not serve the "...socially organizing function of war." (paragraph 12)

In the "substitution for the function of war" there were two critical classifications. In order for there to be a stable society in a world of peace, the following tow criteria would be needed:

an effective substitute for military institutions that neutralize destabilizing social elements" (which means neutralize anti-social people) This would be essential for "social control", and

a credible motivational surrogate for war that can insure social cohesiveness", which would be the basic way to adapt human drives to what the society needs. (paragraph one)
One possible solution to control "potential enemies of society" (paragraph six) would be to reintroduce slavery. They asserted that the "traditional association of slavery" should not blind us to "..its adaptability to advanced forms of social organization..." They acknowledge that the "Western moral and economic values" do not line up with slavery. But it is possible to develop a "....sophisticated form of slavery..." that may "..be an absolute prerequisite for social control in a world of peace..." They maintain that the first "logical" step would be the "adoption of some form of 'universal' military service."

In paragraph seven, they comment that the "'alternate enemy' must imply a more immediate, tangible, and indirectly felt threat of destruction." This enemy must justify taking and paying a "blood price" in the wide area of human concern. They go on into paragraph eight to say, "...inconsiderable actual sacrifice of life; the construction of an up-to-date mythological or religious structure for this purpose would present difficulties in our era,...certainly be considered." They go on to discuss the development of "blood games" (paragraph nine) to effectively control individual aggressive impulses. To be realistic, a ritual of this type might be "socialized" like the Spanish Inquisition and the "witch trials of other periods". The purposes would be for "social purification", and "State security". Though this type of thing is doubtful, it is "...considerable less fanciful than the wishful notion of many peace planners that a lasting condition of peace can be brought about without the most painstaking examination of every possible surrogate for the essential functions of war." They considered this, "in a sense" the quest for "William Jame's 'moral equivalent of war'."

ECOLOGICAL

This "function of war" is put in a way very degrading to man. It starts out in paragraph one with, "Man, like all other animals". Man is brought down to the level of beasts. They go on to comment that, "To forestall the inevitable historical cycles of inadequate food supply, post- Neolithic man destroys surplus members of his own species by organized warfare." It gets better in paragraph two, where man is compared "in a limited degree" with rats. This is because they kill their own kind.

One of the "functions of war" they state, has "...served to help assure the (survival) of the human species." (paragraph three) They go on to say that in nature, it is survival of the fittest; the "inferior" disappear. With war, this function is reversed, because those who fight and die during wars, are "in general its (its meaning man) biologically stronger members." In paragraph six, they state: "Conventional methods of warfare would almost surely prove inadequate, in this event, to reduce the consuming population to a level consistent with survival of the species." Species, of course meaning man. So conventional warfare may not be able to kill enough people. They go on to say (paragraph seven) that, "The second relevant factor is the efficiency of modern methods of mass destruction. Even if their use is not required to meet a world population crisis, they offer, perhaps paradoxically, the first opportunity in the history of man to halt the regressive genetic effects of natural selection by war."

They have some interesting ideas for "substitutes for the functions of war". Since war has shortcomings as a way for "selective population control", they believe that coming up with substitutes for this function " should be comparatively simple". (paragraph one) They believe that even though war has not "been genetically progressive", it cannot be fairly faulted as a "system of gross population control to preserve the species".

They believe to have a "universal requirement" for procreation be limited to "artificial insemination "would be fully adequate substitute control for population levels". Conception and embryonic growth would take place under laboratory conditions. This type of "reproductive system" would have the advantage of "being susceptible of direct eugenic management". (Sounds like a "Brave New World" to me.) When this report was written, steps to have "total control of conception with a variant of the ubiquitous 'pill', via water supplies or certain essential foodstuffs, off set by a controlled 'antidote'" was already being developed: by teams of experimental biologists in Massachusetts, Michigan, and California, Mexico and the U.S.S.R. (paragraph four)

This solution, they realize, cannot come about a substitute for war while there is still war. The reason? "...excess population is war material." (paragraph five) As long as there is even "a remote possibility of war" societies "must maintain a supportable population" even if it effects the economy.

CULTURAL AND SCIENTIFIC

The "function of war" wouldn't make too much difference in the area of art. They do believe that it has a role "..as the fundamental determinant of culture values." (paragraph two) Right now art shows "...The exaltation of bravery, the willingness to kill and risk death in tribal warfare".

The "function of war" concerning science is a different story. What motivates the development of science on all levels.

A "substitution for the function of war" for art would simply be for art to change. It could be used as previously "in a few primitive peace-oriented system". (paragraph three) Art would be "reassigned" to "...decoration, entertainment, or ply...". it would be "entirely free of the burden of expressing the socio-moral values and conflicts of a war-oriented society..."

In science a "substitution for the function of war" could be to go into a "giant space research program" (paragraph four) They have found, if all war threats were to end tomorrow, the quest for scientific knowledge could go forward, without slowing down for "perhaps two decades". (paragraph five) There are many "unresolved" social issues that can be researched and dealt with.

OTHER

We have combined section's five and six to show you that what the "experts" said the "functions of war" are in our society along with some of their "substitutions for the functions of war". Section five ended with some extra comments that we will summarize here.

They consider war a "general social release" (paragraph two) It provides "the release and redistribution of undifferentiated tensions". In other words, a type of therapy. It is a "generational stabilizer" (paragraph three) that enables the "deteriorating older generation" to "maintain control of the younger, destroying it if necessary". It clears ideology. It is a basis for international understanding.

SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS

Since war is not a "political issue" but used as a means of control, if an "era of peace" were to come, there would have to be drastic changes. Section Seven gives the "bottom line".

War has provided a dependable system to maintain economies. Any substitute would have to be able to take the place of what war does to maintain economies. There would have to be a way to take care of the "waste" war does that will permit it to be independent of the normal supply and demand economy. It must be subject to "arbitrary political control". (paragraph three-Substitutes for Functions of War: Criteria)

In the political aspect, war has been the foundation for a stable government. Political authority is accepted. War has made it able "to maintain necessary class distinctions". It also ensures the "subordination of the citizen to the state" though the concept of nationhood. (paragraph three, functions of war) The substitute for war must make it so an external menace would require people to accept the political authority.

The sociological function has been able to control dangerous social dissidence and destructive tendencies. It has been able to motivate human behavior with social allegiance. To replace this, a credible omnipresent and understood fear of personal destruction must be generated. This fear must be big enough to transcend the value of an individual human to the greater good of the whole.

The ecological function has been used to maintain a balance between gross human population and the supplies available for its survival. The substitute must insure the survival of the species. (man)

SUBSTITUTES FOR THE FUNCTIONS OF WAR: MODELS

Here are a few examples these "experts" came up with in order to replace some of the functions of war. The economic function can be replaced with an in depth social-welfare program. This program can be directed towards the improvement of the conditions of human live. An unreachable space research program is another option. Disarmament inspection system with variants of such a system.

The political function can be a omnipresent (virtually omnipotent) international police force. There should be an established and recognized extraterrestrial menace. They recommend massive global and environmental pollution. They even suggest fictitious alternate enemies.

The sociological function (they call the Control function) can be programs derived from using the Peace Corps as a model. Slavery in a modern, sophisticated form is another option. A motivational function to get control can be intensified environmental pollution. Also, making new religious or other mythologies. Socially oriented blood games is another option.

Since war isn't choosey on who dies, the ecological function can be a comprehensive program of applied eugenics. (Plain English: breeding superior races)

I am going to end the summary of this report here. Yes, there is much more in the report, but I believe you get the jest of it. I am going on to bring this report into what is happening today.

ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS BEING FOLLOWED?

This report was concluded in 1966. President Kennedy was shot before he could explain what he was talking about at Columbia University. Johnson ordered this Report to be sealed. The "experts" recommended that no one, except those who needed to know, be exposed to the contents of this report. One man, to whom the American people owe a debt of gratitude, thought we had a right to know. Let's take a look at what has been going on in America in the past 30 years. Are we being manipulated and conditioned to accept a New World Order from an outline of 15 experts? (Because of lack of space, I will be summarizing. I encourage people to further investigate any examples given to verify).

THE HERD

I found it very interesting that these "experts" took all moral issues out of their evaluations. Man was brought down to the level of animals, like a herd of cattle that needed to have decided what was best for the greater good of the herd. Who would have to be slaughtered and who could be used to increase the herd? What could be done to get rid of the excess members of the herd? What about the potentially "criminal" cattle who would not go with what the owners decided would be best?

This Report made us to be pawns that have been used to benefit the elite. Great study and care was taken as what to do to re-condition these pawns to a whole different type of thinking. These pawns who have been conditioned so long to think one way. Though the types of things I will be discussing are happening all over the world, I will be mainly talking about America. There couldn't be a New World Order if America didn't fall first.

POPULATION CONTROL

Since the legalizing of abortion, over twenty years ago, there have been over 36 million Americans murdered before they could be born. That is more Americans than have died in all the conflicts America has been involved with all put together. American's have been conditioned to believe that this is not "murder" but is "choice".

For Desert Storm, our soldiers had to have shots to "protect them against chemical warfare". These shots were the germs of botchulism and amthrax. Since then over 7000 of our best service men have died. see: The Resnick Interview with Peter Kawaja

Euthanasia and the "right to die with dignity" are being pushed so the "quality of life" can be improved.

Extermination camps are being built to do away with "undesirables".

Aids is a government made disease that the spread of it is encouraged by our government.

GLOBAL PEACE KEEPERS

The United Nations (UN) has a military that goes around the world as "peace keepers". The members of the UN forces come from all countries. These "peace keepers" are also stationed in the United States in the closed bases throughout the country. They are also in some of the bases that are opened. Foreign tanks and vehicles are coming to America and secretly being painted white (UN color) in various military installations around the country.

The US is disarming their military and closing down military bases all over the country. Our president can sign an executive order that will put the military under the command of the UN. US soldiers are already having to put aside their oath and take the oath of the UN forces.

Racism is being pushed over the media and though the government. Should riots develop, as in other countries, we will need a "peace keeping" force in the US. They are ready.

NEW RELIGIONS? BLOOD SACRIFICES?

The New Age will be the only acceptable religion of the NWO. It is everything against Christianity and has infiltrated every area of our lives.

Satanism and other Occult religions are already having ritual human sacrifices.

EXTRATERRESTRIAL ENEMY?

When this was written, over 30 years ago they acknowledged that this would be hard to convince the people of. Even with the UFO sightings that had already been put out. What has happened in the past 30 years?

Well, there have been "alien abductions", and many more UFO sightings. To top it off, there are UFO clubs where people who have "seen aliens" or "been abducted" can get together for conventions.

To top that off, we have had over 25 years of Star Trek, which has enforced a one world government. Throughout both series and the movies they have the "New Age" philosophy. (New Age will be the only philosophy accepted by the NWO) These folks have all kinds of experience with various races on other planets. see: Dirty Watchtower Secrets. // Like Father Like Son: George W. Bush and the Fake Alien Invasion

Star Wars has also conditioned people to believe in a "galaxy far far away". These reinforce extra terrestrial life on other planets. The two movies, "V" and "V the Final Battle" and then the series shows and invasion from another planet. The movie "Alien" shows this also. The world would have to unite, should the "movies and television programs" come to life with a "real" enemy. see: "War of the Worlds" Mind Control Experiment - New World Order Test Run

ENVIRONMENT

There is not scientific evidence available to prove all the environmental problems our government it trying to push on us. There is no such problem as "global warming" for example. But, people such as Vice President Gore and "NWO Lieutenant" Rockefeller are coming out with books that if we don't unite as a world, to work on the environmental problems, we will not survive. (Fictitious Enemy?) see: Global Warming's Dirty New Secret // Global Warming Claims Based on False Data

MORE FICTITIOUS ENEMIES

It is interesting that the media, with the help of the government, is coming up with all these "potentially dangerous" groups of people? These extremist groups, such as Christians, Militia members, talk show hosts, right wing radicals, conservatives etc., are being mentioned regularly as "potential terrorists". Between this and the racism the government is pushing, it will make it easy for them to call a police state, and round up all the people who disagree with them. Those considered to be "enemies of the state". see: "Project Megiddo"

SLAVE LABOR

Anyone on welfare is already a slave to the government. They are working on legislation where these people will have to work for their benefits. After 1996, (around May) these benefits will not come in the form of cash or food stamps. There will be a debit card. This will stop "welfare fraud" and give the government more control over it's welfare slaves.

There are also several labor camps built, ready to activated. These labor camps will be for strong prisoners who are considered "dissidents".

GENETIC EXPERIMENTS

These experiments are already done on aborted babies. Thanks to a bill signed into law by Pres. Clinton to support fetal experiments.

What many folks don't know about are the bio-spheres being built in the mountains. (The two I know about are, in Washington state and North Carolina.) No one can have access to these places now as they are surrounded by guards. Bio-sphere is the UN term for Colony. It is rumored that these "colonies" are being used for breeding of the "superior race".

There are also concentration camps built that have "storage facilities" for human organs. These camps will be used for genetic experiments.

IN CLOSING

I would like to comment that in all the reports this author has done, and all the information I have read, Iron Mountain has had the biggest impact on me. The fact that a few men can come up with a plan to bring a "once free nation" into fascism upsets me. The fact that many of their suggestions are being followed makes me angry. The fact the majority of the American people don't know, and don't want to know is very unbelievable to me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Read the report yourself: www.projectcamelot.org/Report_from_Iron_Mountain.pdf

Entire report in html... http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/report_fromi_iron_mountain/report_from_iron_mountain_1.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Roger Rusk, brother of globalist Dean Rusk, wrote The Other End of the World. On page 206 Roger Rusk writes...
[Full text of the book: http://reactor-core.org/other-end.html ]



"A few years ago Mr. Robert McNamara retired as head of the World Bank. At a dinner in his honor in Washington, Mr. David Rockefeller made the following revealing statement:

The world that we have worked to construct is threatened. The gravity of this moment, when Mr. McNamara and others are about to leave their posts while a new administration re-examines American foreign aid policy, is great. If we are going to save the international institutions we have put in place, the moment is now or never, for the struggle between the old guard and the new is going far beyond the struggle for capital appropriations. It is going to endanger the new world order which we have based on the alliance between Wall Street and Washington.

While we men of firms and banks organize international channels of economy and raw materials, the government is now building its own diplomatic and economic bridges between Washington and foreign governments. By our methods, our governments contribute to the stability and economic growth of the world, our multinationals benefit, and when it is necessary, they contribute their political support. Now radical conservatives are attempting to destroy all that in seeking first and foremost to serve the national interests of the United States'.

Notice such phrases as "international institutions we have put in place," new world order which we have based on the the alliance between Wall Street and Washington," and the last sentence which castigates those who seek to serve the national interests of the United States. In the face of a statement like this, can there be any lingering doubts that there exists a financial superstructure over the governments of the world which is international, multinational and supranational in scope?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Iron Mountain: Blueprint For Tyranny (2hrs 21mins)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-652081546808629932

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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
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« Reply #2697 on: April 05, 2009, 08:20:31 PM »

Nope, in the continuation of analogies, I think we eliminate the fuel.

Since there is an abundance of resources, they don't have to allocated in the traditional way. We use technology to create an abundance of resources, so if you want something you get it. If there IS a scarcity of a resource we work right away to eliminate that scarcity.

Please, if you wish to understand questions like "Who decides who gets what?" (which is an erroneous question but I'm happy to try and reconcile understanding) inform yourself:
Activism Orientation Video
Orientation PDF
Resource-based Economy Essay

Who contros the technology?

"If there IS a scarcity of a resource we work right away to eliminate that scarcity."

Dude, you are serious?

Have you ever listened to Aldous Huxley's final speech where he exposed the Brave New World of endless resources is really just a scam to enact hard core tyranny on the planet? Are you saying that you are more knowledgable of the plans than Aldous Huxley was?  So I do not know if you are seriously lacking in grey matter or if you are just outright lying to everyone. This reminds me of a recent interview between Alex Jones and Alan Watt:

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=95178.0
AJ: Well, I could go over it. It's got Envirecorp, Environment Corps, Green Corps, Security Corps. In fact I've got it in my stack out there guys, from last nights show. Will you bring me the big huge stack over there on the table? Others are like five stacks, it's the big one. I'll get it during the break, you'll bring me the wrong stack. You couldn't know where it is. It doesn't matter. It's right over there on the conference table. No, No, just forget it, just forget it. I don't want all the stacks, there are like 50 stacks out there. You know, what's the point? I keep on covering it giving them the sub-sections, where it says it, how they're doing it. It's just mind blowing. I keep on saying that. Don't people understand it's classic hard-core tyranny?

AW: They don't really. A generation has grown up living with fantasy and virtual reality. And the older generation has been dying off, those with memories with what tyranny was all about. Therefore, it's brand new again for this generation. They've almost been muldy-coddled to an extent, living in entertainment land. They can not tell the difference between reality and fiction. It's all blended together like some bizarre talk-show on television. So that's how they're life is, most of them. In the 40's there was a guy, an arch-bishop in fact, in Britain who wrote books and spoke on behalf of the United Nations, the coming United Nations. Eventually in 50 years, we will have a system of perpetual education from birth to death. You would be a computer basically. Where you'd be upgraded throughout your entire life to learn the new normals. That's what George Orwell was talking about in 1984. The ability to believe everything you're told today, where you're give a new reality tommorrow. And you must delete the old reality, as though it never existed. And be politically correct, day by day, week by week, etc.

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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
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« Reply #2698 on: April 05, 2009, 08:21:47 PM »

You're quite welcome to voice why you think it wont.
I'm here to discuss.

First of all the Zeitgiest solution isn't feasible.

1. You'll need an globally elected body to enact this.
- To bring about that, you need to destroy everything that divides society and reduce everyone to an equal lot.
   a. this is only possible in the end of the world situation - i.e mass nuke, asteriod, ufos, mass population destruction.
   b. Or somehow get WORLD PEACE- without an event to cause it.
   c. Human nature breeds jealously, we can't even decide on a standard conspiracy theory on all this and you expect star trek.

2. No one knows where all the resources are anyway and see point 1 for who will need to distribute these resoruces.
- Technology like resource identifing space satillite space sensors would do this. I seen it in star trek.
  
3. Do you know a machine that can think?
   a. Do you know how long that will take to happen?
   b. what are you going to build the robots with?
   c. what language will the robots respond too?
   d. the model T car came out in early 20th century and still, not everyone in the world has a car, or a phone or a tv. But everyone will have robots.
  
4. Using "if we all just decided to come together" isn't a good enough reason and stop using guilt based logic to try to force things. Its dishonest.

Zeitgiest the first one had its information copied and stolen from like 4 or 5 different existing documentaries. He made money off other peoples work and his voice over and editing skills, he may have researched the material and put up a bibliography but he didn't introduce you to anything you couldn't have picked up in a web search. You have to be honest with yourself to admit that. In the second film, you are introduced to the solution that they are convincing this to you with star trek themes, i liked it but totally saw the NWO "brave new world" society, see that movie or read that book please you'll understand the anti zeitgeist argument on that. In the third film that accompanies the pdf you are asking us to read through(which i did, cause i like to know what i am talking about) He states that the zeitgeist movement is the activist arm of the Venus Project which is a real estate investment commune in Florida...i believe Peter Joesph is paid by these people to get investors and money donated to them through the use of viral movies pushing a society i don't necessarily think he is full on secret society NWO, just a filmmaking capitalist with a niche.


Here is a link tot he British 1980 version of brave new world and tell me thats not similar to the Venus project.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3536993421073315692
This is the reason why we are critical of zeitgeist, because it pushes the above link's society.
There is two possible futures discussed int his subject the 1984 version or brave new world one.
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« Reply #2699 on: April 05, 2009, 08:34:04 PM »




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« Reply #2700 on: April 05, 2009, 08:35:10 PM »

Quote
Who contros the technology?

"If there IS a scarcity of a resource we work right away to eliminate that scarcity."

Dude, you are serious?

Have you ever listened to Aldous Huxley's final speech where he exposed the Brave New World of endless resources is really just a scam to enact hard core tyranny on the planet? Are you saying that you are more knowledgable of the plans than Aldous Huxley was?  So I do not know if you are seriously lacking in grey matter or if you are kust outright lying to everyone. This reminds me of a recent interview between Alex Jones and Alan Watt:
I am being serious, it's general common sense that if there's a scarcity you eliminate it.
It's only a tyrrany if the resource abundance is not available to everyone, which by my general understanding of Alex's NWO concept is what the elite would do -- while the rest are enslaved to their social structures and monitored 100% by technology.

Quote
1. You'll need an globally elected body to enact this.
- To bring about that, you need to destroy everything that divides society and reduce everyone to an equal lot.
   a. this is only possible in the end of the world situation - i.e mass nuke, asteriod, ufos, mass population destruction.
   b. Or somehow get WORLD PEACE- without an event to cause it.
   c. Human nature breeds jealously, we can't even decide on a standard conspiracy theory on all this and you expect star trek.
Humans are not naturally jealous. You can say that as much as you like, but the reality is that it's depravation that causes jealousy. This is easy to understand -- the neglected child is jealous of the children that aren't, this makes them angry and behave badly, etc,.
We don't have to totally reduce society, we just need to get humanity to unite for the needs that are common to all of us.

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2. No one knows where all the resources are anyway and see point 1 for who will need to distribute these resoruces.
- Technology like resource identifing space satillite space sensors would do this. I seen it in star trek.
What will happen is that all of the Earth's resources will be declared the common heritage of all people. At this point a global survey would be conducted, now before you shudder, all that means is to ascertain what we have and feed that information into a computer database. Once we know what we have we have the tools to begin working with that.

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3. Do you know a machine that can think?
   a. Do you know how long that will take to happen?
   b. what are you going to build the robots with?
   c. what language will the robots respond too?
   d. the model T car came out in early 20th century and still, not everyone in the world has a car, or a phone or a tv. But everyone will have robots.
A lot of machines think, such as the computer I'm typing on. It does a lot of decision making, and that technology is only improving.
The reason why people don't have all the technology available to them, is simply because it's profitable to make it scarce. It's easy to end that.

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In the second film, you are introduced to the solution that they are convincing this to you with star trek themes
Star trek themes? That is insane? It's just architechtural and preliminary design. Canberra, Australia is a circular city (albeit somewhat). These are not ridiculous ideas, they're based on what is most beneficial to people.

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He states that the zeitgeist movement is the activist arm of the Venus Project which is a real estate investment commune in Florida
That is just utter nonsense. The Venus Project is a research organisation which advocates a new social system. They are headquartered in Venus, Florida. They aren't a real estate group, Jacque has the research center up for sale because there is the prospect that he may be moving to Ecuador.

Please, when you say you're informed, at least be honest.
Your thoughts are interesting though, and I've enjoyed responding to them. Legitimate concerns, but from the tone of them I very much doubt you did watch all the of Orientation Video.
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« Reply #2701 on: April 05, 2009, 08:35:26 PM »

Here is a link tot he British 1980 version of brave new world and tell me thats not similar to the Venus project.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3536993421073315692
This is the reason why we are critical of zeitgeist, because it pushes the above link's society.
There is two possible futures discussed int his subject the 1984 version or brave new world one.

There are not two possible solutions!

There is only one plan, Aldoux Huxley revealed in his final speech that the actual plan is a tyrannical one that Orwell surmised.

The "Brave New World" is only a scam to entice naive revolutionaries to help bring about a tyrannical and oppressive despotic rule.  This has happened throughout history, for reference look up the Russian and Chinese "revolutions".
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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
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« Reply #2702 on: April 05, 2009, 08:38:01 PM »

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I think you are also completely confused about what a resource based economy is.  A resource based economy is feudalism and amounts to intergenerational slavery by those who believe that the mass of mankind has been born with saddles on their backs, with a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately.
I'm not even going to bother responding in detail, to that post.
You seem to think that just because there are a dictative group of scientists, that say that we cannot support our current world population and all that bullshit that WE are aligned with them.
They are thinking within the limitations of their current system, they don't intend to move to a resource-based economy at all. They intend to move towards strengthening their current system in any way they can.
Stop being dishonest with yourself and realise that we don't support their elitist scientists.
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2703 on: April 05, 2009, 08:40:01 PM »

There are not two possible solutions!

There is only one plan, Aldoux Huxley revealed in his final speech that the actual plan is a tyrannical one that Orwell surmised.

The "Brave New World" is only a scam to entice naive revolutionaries to help bring about a tyrannical and oppressive despotic rule.  This has happened throughout history, for reference look up the Russian and Chinese "revolutions".

I have looked up these revolutions many times.
They have no true similarity without our movement, and it's just you running scared of real change to say that they do.
Those revolutions used charismatic personalities, hierarchies, and so forth.
We are not aiming for Orwellian socialism, or anything like that.
It's just complete blindness for you to continue insisting so, as if you're just doing it for shits and giggles or something.


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chrisfromchi
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« Reply #2704 on: April 05, 2009, 08:40:44 PM »


That is just utter nonsense. The Venus Project is a research organisation which advocates a new social system. They are headquartered in Venus, Florida. They aren't a real estate group, Jacque has the research center up for sale because there is the prospect that he may be moving to Ecuador.

Please, when you say you're informed, at least be honest.
Your thoughts are interesting though, and I've enjoyed responding to them. Legitimate concerns, but from the tone of them I very much doubt you did watch all the of Orientation Video.

WATCH AT 1:00 TO 1:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ARdUqcncs

" The zeitgeist movement in fact the activist arm for the Venus project" Thats a quote.

I'll start on your other comments now
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2705 on: April 05, 2009, 08:44:42 PM »

WATCH AT 1:00 TO 1:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ARdUqcncs

" The zeitgeist movement in fact the activist arm for the Venus project" Thats a quote.

I'll start on your other comments now
Uh, I'm quite aware that it's the activist arm of the Venus Project. That means that we advocate the proposals of the Venus Project.
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Magnumpi
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« Reply #2706 on: April 05, 2009, 08:48:10 PM »

Humans are not naturally jealous. You can say that as much as you like, but the reality is that it's depravation that causes jealousy. This is easy to understand -- the neglected child is jealous of the children that aren't, this makes them angry and behave badly, etc,.
We don't have to totally reduce society, we just need to get humanity to unite for the needs that are common to all of us.

So, nobody will be jealous of my archaic, Ferrari 6-Speed, rear wheel drive, doing 0-60 in 3.9 and powerslides while the robots build their pod cars on hydrogen driving themselves automatically? Some people don't want to be part of any collective. That will never change. You will have to assimilate those people by force, in which case you're talking enslavement. We can't get 7 billion people to agree on anything, but robots and flying cars, mobile homes is going to do the trick, eh? What's best for us ain't best for me. Even PJ himself talked of re-educating the cavemen.
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Jackson Holly
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« Reply #2707 on: April 05, 2009, 08:51:02 PM »

I realize I am way out of the loop in this discussion ... I would just like to ask BrentonEccles, what is so new about a robot/machine controlled society? Isn't that exactly what TPTB have been instituting as fast and as completely as they could for the last century?

In other words: Science trumps religion - the rule of the Superman?

What is different and new here?
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« Reply #2708 on: April 05, 2009, 08:51:30 PM »

Uh, I'm quite aware that it's the activist arm of the Venus Project. That means that we advocate the proposals of the Venus Project.

1. You advocate.

2. People you convince donate

3. (unknown)

4. Profit

5. Guy moves to Ecuador. (you said it i didn't)

6. You said what i said was nonsense...its not you gave them money didn't you...cause you used WE.

Oh here is the actual venus project donate link.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/getInvolvedDonate.php


Look at all the homes you will be living in once you convince everyone and you can finally pay to make this happen...oh wow...did you buy the 138.30 project plan too?!?
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White Rose Sophie
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« Reply #2709 on: April 05, 2009, 08:54:59 PM »

Nope, in the continuation of analogies, I think we eliminate the fuel.

Since there is an abundance of resources, they don't have to allocated in the traditional way. We use technology to create an abundance of resources, so if you want something you get it. If there IS a scarcity of a resource we work right away to eliminate that scarcity.

Please, if you wish to understand questions like "Who decides who gets what?" (which is an erroneous question but I'm happy to try and reconcile understanding) inform yourself:
Activism Orientation Video
Orientation PDF
Resource-based Economy Essay

No, I'm not going to view your information, because I have already view Zeitgeist 1 and 2 - I want YOU to explain it. Obviously, in words of only 1 or 2 syllables, since I seem to have trouble comprehending your explanations.

WHO allocates the resources?  (Why is this erroneous?)

If there IS a scarcity of a resource we work right away to eliminate that scarcity.

Ok...let's see.  Perhaps I want to get some tomatoes at the 'store', and I go to get them, but I don't like those particular tomatoes.  So, I decide to grow my own.  And they taste so much better than the ones at the store.  So much better, that my neighbor wants some.  How does he get some of my 'wonderful' home-grown tomatoes, if there is no 'money' with which to pay me for my wonderful tomatoes.  Does someone step-in to 'reallocate' my tomatoes so he has some?

Once again..."Who eliminates the fuel" as you mentioned?

Who is 'we'?



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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2710 on: April 05, 2009, 09:00:49 PM »

1. You advocate.

2. People you convince donate

3. (unknown)

4. Profit

5. Guy moves to Ecuador. (you said it i didn't)

6. You said what i said was nonsense...its not you gave them money didn't you...cause you used WE.

Oh here is the actual venus project donate link.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/getInvolvedDonate.php


Look at all the homes you will be living in once you convince everyone and you can finally pay to make this happen...oh wow...did you buy the 138.30 project plan too?!?
You're making a completely invalid point. I think perhaps you're unable to discuss this, you're instead trying to take down this idea by attacking the fact that they sell anything.
He's moving to Ecuador, possibly though not definitely, because there is the chance that the first test-city/theme park will be built there.
It's not money, by the way, which will implement a resource-based economy. Wink


Quote
Ok...let's see.  Perhaps I want to get some tomatoes at the 'store', and I go to get them, but I don't like those particular tomatoes.  So, I decide to grow my own.  And they taste so much better than the ones at the store.  So much better, that my neighbor wants some.  How does he get some of my 'wonderful' home-grown tomatoes, if there is no 'money' with which to pay me for my wonderful tomatoes.  Does someone step-in to 'reallocate' my tomatoes so he has some?
It's simple, really, that person would get some of the seeds that you have and grow them themselves. That's a really simple question. If you wanted to grow your own tomatoes, and do all that stuff that'd be your pleasure or burden. There would be nothing to stop you.

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WHO allocates the resources?  (Why is this erroneous?)
Because when there's enough of everything you don't need to allocate, allocation is a form of rationing when there isn't enough to around. No one is going to fight over a slice of bread when there are 505050505 slices waiting for them.
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White Rose Sophie
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« Reply #2711 on: April 05, 2009, 09:06:11 PM »

You still haven't answered my question.......

"WHO re-allocates the resources"? 

Ok - let's rephrase that.  WHO is responsible for the implementation of the 'Venus Project"? 

What if I don't want to participate in said project?  WHO is going to make me do so?

And of course, we have not even MENTIONED the main 'resource' of the planet, have we?  PEOPLE.

So, let's say that I cannot have children.  But I want them.  Does someone then 'reallocate' one to me?
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chrisfromchi
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« Reply #2712 on: April 05, 2009, 09:07:40 PM »

You're making a completely invalid point. I think perhaps you're unable to discuss this, you're instead trying to take down this idea by attacking the fact that they sell anything.
He's moving to Ecuador, possibly though not definitely, because there is the chance that the first test-city/theme park will be built there.
It's not money, by the way, which will implement a resource-based economy. Wink


Those are incredibly valid points.

He wouldn't be moving to Ecuador to escape with the donated funds so people can't reclaim them from fraud lawsuits when your chance doesn't work.

Does the Ecuadorian government have an opinion on the colonization of a resource based economy commune in their country?

This isn't a game. Jamestown was a commune too, they just didn't have dreams of droids and tubeships like yourself.

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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2713 on: April 05, 2009, 09:11:06 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mapIudlEG3w

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WHO is responsible for the implementation of the 'Venus Project"?
Anyone who wants to, no one is forced to do anything. Please see Aims of the Venus Project.

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What if I don't want to participate in said project?  WHO is going to make me do so?
Then no one is going to force you, you can live wherever you like. But that's something you have to understand about humanity ... what if the majority don't want a monetary system anymore? You get the idea.

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let's say that I cannot have children.  But I want them.  Does someone then 'reallocate' one to me?
The same way you could adopt today, you'll be able to in the future.
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2714 on: April 05, 2009, 09:13:35 PM »

Those are incredibly valid points.

He wouldn't be moving to Ecuador to escape with the donated funds so people can't reclaim them from fraud lawsuits when your chance doesn't work.

Does the Ecuadorian government have an opinion on the colonization of a resource based economy commune in their country?

This isn't a game. Jamestown was a commune too, they just didn't have dreams of droids and tubeships like yourself.


They aren't valid points because you're acting like the Venus Project is taking peoples money to implement a system for themselves. WE are going to do it. Anyone who wants to participate, can do so -- simple as that.

Also, since Jacque moving to Ecuador is probably not going to happen any time soon I don't think the issue of whether the Ecuadorian government wants it is relevant at this point.
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BrentonEccles
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« Reply #2715 on: April 05, 2009, 09:18:21 PM »

I find it interesting that you should accuse a 93 year old of running away with money.
He may not have much life left, he's certainly not running away with money. ;p




(I will return to continue this discussion later)
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Unintelligable Name
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« Reply #2716 on: April 05, 2009, 09:19:26 PM »

Enjoy your people's created ultrasocialist utopia run by machines, BrentonEccles.

Please stop spamming this forum with your pro-utopian "propaganda", we are not Zeitgeist or Zeitgeist Addendem fans nor do we want to be Zeitgeist fans or Venus project fans.

If you are intelligent you would have realized long ago that arguing on the Internet about your Utopia is a waste of time and energy.

We want nothing to do with it, thanks and good bye.
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chrisfromchi
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« Reply #2717 on: April 05, 2009, 09:19:58 PM »

They aren't valid points because you're acting like the Venus Project is taking peoples money to implement a system for themselves. WE are going to do it. Anyone who wants to participate, can do so -- simple as that.

Also, since Jacque moving to Ecuador is probably not going to happen any time soon I don't think the issue of whether the Ecuadorian government wants it is relevant at this point.

Yes the venus project...not going to happen any time soon.

The venus project is taking peoples money (see above link) for an idea you even said is not going to happen any time soon.

It is relevant...cause if you raise money for something and it doesn't happen its called fraud.

Do you not understand that?


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chrisfromchi
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« Reply #2718 on: April 05, 2009, 09:22:53 PM »

I find it interesting that you should accuse a 93 year old of running away with money.
He may not have much life left, he's certainly not running away with money. ;p
(I will return to continue this discussion later)

I know i'm right about you people now. I know it.

Your 93 year old is a front man with a story and a dream.

Who ever is the holder of the account gets the money and when he dies who gets it after... sigh i know you guys are mega scammers now
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« Reply #2719 on: April 05, 2009, 09:24:08 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mapIudlEG3w
Anyone who wants to, no one is forced to do anything. Please see Aims of the Venus Project.
Then no one is going to force you, you can live wherever you like. But that's something you have to understand about humanity ... what if the majority don't want a monetary system anymore? You get the idea.
The same way you could adopt today, you'll be able to in the future.

I does seem strange doesn't it that an idea which entails the removal of the means to enslave is labeled by some as a NWO plan..

However it all depends on the chronology. If we plump for a globalised utopia in anticipation of abundance..but the abundance does not materialise, then we have a dependent population with the framework for tyranny and control in place. But without a globalised resource system there would be no abundance...so you see the oppurtunity for a massive con here?

I do like the idea though.
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