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Author Topic: Zeitgeist Deception - Producer no longer feels 9/11 was an inside job  (Read 329300 times)
aLLyOuRbAsE
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« Reply #2040 on: January 29, 2009, 01:18:53 PM »

what is wrong with the right to your own life?

Z followers often level the criticism, to those that disagree with the utopian ideal, "well, what's your solution?". id like to take a moment to remind us all of what this fight is all about...Liberty.

Liberty is not an ends, its a means, it holds that you cannot compromise the means in the name of the ends, for if you do you no longer have Liberty.

I agree to a large extent with the problems indentified in the Z movies, a corrupt oligarchy, money manipulation (i disagree that private property is to blame here - it would be like saying someone's right to life is at fault when they get murdered), scarcity id agree with, but again its redistribution of wealth that is to blame here, not private property, and to say that scarcity will be solved by a managed redistribution of wealth is laughable. but its no surprise to me that i agree with the majority of the problems pointed out in the z movies, theyre almost word for word lifted out of previous truth movies like money masters, freedom to fascism and many more.

however, like many on these boards, i disagree with the solution, or lack thereof in my opinion, a utopian daydream is not a solution.

most of us, whether we agree with PJ or not, agree on more than would be apparent, the NWO is the problem, and we must stop the NWO, but then the question leveled at those of us against Z's solution, "what would we put in its place?"

i have a simple answer, Liberty. there are concrete principles in Liberty, its based, in my opinion, on "do unto others as you would have them do to you", and is by far and away the most logical, just, equal, fair way of viewing humanity and society.

its common that people have misconceptions about what Liberty means, often with "what, you'd let all these corporations run amok?" to which shows a misunderstanding of Liberty.

put simply, Liberty is the best means of arriving at this utopian dream that the Z movie presents (albeit with a few minor changes - equality for one, how can you have equality if we are not all deemed sovereign? surely that would be enforcing the outcome of equality through managed redistribution - or collectivism).

truth mixed with lies is indeed a dangerous formula, and to say we can have liberty without the means is just as dangerous, we all want peace, justice, abundance, but these things mean nothing without the means, you might as well be saying "hope, change and believe"
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« Reply #2041 on: January 29, 2009, 02:27:02 PM »

Question for Peter Joseph:

How are "The Venus Project" and "Tabula Raza" not part of an occultist theosophical agenda?


Could you tell me what the occultist and theosophical agendas are? are they not liberty and dignity? They seem to promote those ideas to me, perhaps I am missing some major shite...I get what's wrong with one world government , are they promoting a unified humanity or what?
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« Reply #2042 on: January 29, 2009, 02:34:54 PM »

Tabula rasa (Latin: blank slate) refers to the epistemological thesis that individual human beings are born with no built-in mental content, in a word, "blank", and that their entire resource of knowledge is built up gradually from their experiences and sensory perceptions of the outside world.



I'm sure i must be the devil and all but this much of the statment here seems true in my experience. What other reason would we have the ability to learn and emulate if not for growth and developement.
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If there were, it was on account of their ignorance."
J. M. Roberts, "Antiquity Unveiled", 1892
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« Reply #2043 on: January 29, 2009, 02:44:44 PM »

Peter Joseph is a shill. This new age phooey and that's what is is is all a ruse, disinformation..

Zeitgeist, Peter Joseph, Communist, Exposed
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« Reply #2044 on: January 29, 2009, 02:49:44 PM »

Yeah, PJ is a communist when he speaks out against communism in his work. It's so OBVIOUS!

/s
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« Reply #2045 on: January 29, 2009, 03:07:11 PM »

Yeah, PJ is a communist when he speaks out against communism in his work. It's so OBVIOUS!

/s

yeah PJ says he's against communism because he wants a centralised means of production, and he says he's against communism because he wants to abolish money and the wage system, yeah, he says he's against communism because he wants to get rid of those greedy "capitalist" bankers.

yeah, PJ is definately against communism  Roll Eyes
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcx9BJRadfw

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« Reply #2046 on: January 29, 2009, 03:27:06 PM »

I'm sure i must be the devil and all but this much of the statment here seems true in my experience. What other reason would we have the ability to learn and emulate if not for growth and developement.

A baby zebra is born with the innate knowledge of how to stand up and how to run. Within just hours of its birth, it's doing just that. This is hardly a blank slate. Yet there are many subtle things that this young zebra must learn in his lifetime.

The same is so for us. Some things are innate to humans. Some things are not.

Women are attracted to power in men. But there are vast differences in what women percieve as power. Some women think money or financial status is power. Some women see physical attractiveness/ muscularity as power. Some women see the ability to stand firm in convictions as power. No woman needs to be taught that power is attractive. It is innate to us. We understand this without being taught. But what you CAN teach us, is WHAT demonstrates power without a given society or even familial unit.

There is a combination at work, otherwise life wouldn't work. If we have to learn everything, we would die. We must know how to suckle, it is innate. Otherwise, we would die. We must know how to start crawling, it is innate. We must learn how to walk on our own- with the support of others perhaps, but ultimately, we must do it ourselves. Even the ability to learn is innate. The capacity to learn, and the desire to learn, are innate.

There can be only one obvious conclusion to anyone who has had a child, anyone who has been adopted or adopted, to anyone who has seen a "fish out of water" that is a child growing up with someone other than their family of origin... our personalities, our likes and dislikes, even often what knowledge we seek (or don't) is innate to us. What can be brought in on top of that, is knowledge, understanding, and various environmental influences.

Once more... the only answer is BOTH!
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« Reply #2047 on: January 29, 2009, 03:28:03 PM »

Here we go... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2048 on: January 29, 2009, 03:51:51 PM »

Just teasing, Pheonix. Here's a great article reinforcing your viewpoint. Thought you might enjoy it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15629096

What is it that makes us who we really are: our life experiences or our DNA? Paula Bernstein and Elyse Schein were both born in New York City. Both women were adopted as infants and raised by loving families. They met for the first time when they were 35 years old and found they were "identical strangers."
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« Reply #2049 on: January 29, 2009, 04:21:41 PM »

Here we go... Roll Eyes

Can I have some cheese with your whine? :p
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Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.

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Do not under-estimate your own mind. That is the NWO's job.

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« Reply #2050 on: January 29, 2009, 04:56:28 PM »

Really?  That is your argument?  If the new film follows the same logic that you just presented than we are definitely in store for another snake oil sales job.

I don't want this point to qualify as "my argument" but, AJ was also great in "Waking Life". It seems that Waking life, is rife with Utopian idealism , at least in the spiritual and philosophical realm. Also if you could , please point out what part of "theosophy" is evil or bad or wrong or anti liberty , now apart from what I view as paranoia regarding the destruction of  constitution(which I will defend against anyone to the death) What moral objections do you have with theosophy? I don't know much about it, and what I have learned doesn't seem that bad to me.
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« Reply #2051 on: January 29, 2009, 05:34:14 PM »

Theosophy claims that there is a bit of truth in all religions. It claims it's counterproducted to have seperate religions because it seperates people. These are ideas that I agree with.

The main reason why people bash Zeitgeist, Zeitgeist Addendum, Peter Joseph, etc. is because their religious views are called into question and this always brings about a fight or flight reaction amongst those who cannot see that the religious doctrines we're ingrained to believe from such a young age are not only outdated and primitive but they're tools of control. Even if they once had a symbiotic relationship with actual fact and history, the messages they now contain have been watered down, changed and manipulated throughout the centuries by men in power. FACT.

Theosophy is the natural progression into a more evolutionary way of thinking. It's less primitive. But it's only an idea...a philosophy. It is NOT a religion. That's what most people fail to recognize.

Zeitgeist promotes an understanding, a selfless view of society where everyone looks out for one another, where abundance and automatoin relieve our lives from tedious labor so that we may evolve into a more intelligent, more advanced species.

People will agree with Zeitgeist all day long until the religion card is pulled. Then it's, "WHOA, Slow down there, pardner. Them's fightin' words!"

Yet even priests don't believe religion. Look at all the child molestations. Even Rabbis don't. Look at all the ecstacy busts.

Of course, this isn't true of all people in any given religion but it's widespread enough to warrant mention.

People say there's a Theosophist (Luciferian) group who's a member of the UN. They're shaping world views. So is the Vatican. Who's right? The people who share your world view? The people who believe in your god? or gods?

Let's grow up and realize we're all in this together and all this bickering and fighting only holds us back.

Those are my views.
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« Reply #2052 on: January 29, 2009, 05:57:08 PM »

Cipherscribe, I'm for the ideas promoted in the film , many of which I understood from reading and general thinking and coming to conclusions, I see you are too, now i want those who are opposed to please point out , beyond discomfort and paranoia , where is the evil...?
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three persons present who believed in the truth of what was set down.
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J. M. Roberts, "Antiquity Unveiled", 1892
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« Reply #2053 on: January 29, 2009, 06:05:04 PM »

I don't want this point to qualify as "my argument" but, AJ was also great in "Waking Life". It seems that Waking life, is rife with Utopian idealism , at least in the spiritual and philosophical realm. Also if you could , please point out what part of "theosophy" is evil or bad or wrong or anti liberty , now apart from what I view as paranoia regarding the destruction of  constitution(which I will defend against anyone to the death) What moral objections do you have with theosophy? I don't know much about it, and what I have learned doesn't seem that bad to me.

Waking Life had people question the reality they formed for themselves.  Waking life expanded people's horizons.

Zeitgeist did something similar, then ZA gave the only solution to this new expanded enlightenment and anger at the state of affairs.

AJ is all about questioning the insanity we find ourselves in.  His only solution that I have heard is to fight the infowars, call them on their bullshit, be responsible for yourself, do not depend on psycopathic government, and let others know about the crimes they have committed.

ZA's solution is luciferian theosophy where all other religions are banished and made illegal. People are re-educated into the new "planetary consiousness" and a fully planetary centralized control system (via technology) will tell us what to think, how to act, and when to die. Please take a look at the Venus Project webpage and see if you can identify the red flags.



I think the two films are a bit different. Just my opinion.
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« Reply #2054 on: January 29, 2009, 06:07:09 PM »

Theosophy claims that there is a bit of truth in all religions. It claims it's counterproducted to have seperate religions because it seperates people. These are ideas that I agree with.

The main reason why people bash Zeitgeist, Zeitgeist Addendum, Peter Joseph, etc. is because their religious views are called into question and this always brings about a fight or flight reaction amongst those who cannot see that the religious doctrines we're ingrained to believe from such a young age are not only outdated and primitive but they're tools of control. Even if they once had a symbiotic relationship with actual fact and history, the messages they now contain have been watered down, changed and manipulated throughout the centuries by men in power. FACT.

Theosophy is the natural progression into a more evolutionary way of thinking. It's less primitive. But it's only an idea...a philosophy. It is NOT a religion. That's what most people fail to recognize.

Zeitgeist promotes an understanding, a selfless view of society where everyone looks out for one another, where abundance and automatoin relieve our lives from tedious labor so that we may evolve into a more intelligent, more advanced species.

People will agree with Zeitgeist all day long until the religion card is pulled. Then it's, "WHOA, Slow down there, pardner. Them's fightin' words!"

Yet even priests don't believe religion. Look at all the child molestations. Even Rabbis don't. Look at all the ecstacy busts.

Of course, this isn't true of all people in any given religion but it's widespread enough to warrant mention.

People say there's a Theosophist (Luciferian) group who's a member of the UN. They're shaping world views. So is the Vatican. Who's right? The people who share your world view? The people who believe in your god? or gods?

Let's grow up and realize we're all in this together and all this bickering and fighting only holds us back.

Those are my views.

This country was founded on differences and the mutual respect of them.
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« Reply #2055 on: January 29, 2009, 06:40:56 PM »

ZA's solution is luciferian theosophy where all other religions are banished and made illegal. People are re-educated into the new "planetary consiousness" and a fully planetary centralized control system (via technology) will tell us what to think, how to act, and when to die. Please take a look at the Venus Project webpage and see if you can identify the red flags.


This does sound bad, I
 will check the site, thanks.
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three persons present who believed in the truth of what was set down.
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« Reply #2056 on: January 29, 2009, 07:33:22 PM »

Waking Life had people question the reality they formed for themselves.  Waking life expanded people's horizons.

Zeitgeist did something similar, then ZA gave the only solution to this new expanded enlightenment and anger at the state of affairs.

AJ is all about questioning the insanity we find ourselves in.  His only solution that I have heard is to fight the infowars, call them on their bullshit, be responsible for yourself, do not depend on psycopathic government, and let others know about the crimes they have committed.

ZA's solution is luciferian theosophy where all other religions are banished and made illegal. People are re-educated into the new "planetary consiousness" and a fully planetary centralized control system (via technology) will tell us what to think, how to act, and when to die. Please take a look at the Venus Project webpage and see if you can identify the red flags.



I think the two films are a bit different. Just my opinion.

I could not find anything about religion or banishing it in any evident way on the Venus site , could you hold my hand and show me where I might find this info , maybe I'm slow on the up take but the only red flags I saw , the designs of the future are visualy not pleasing
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« Reply #2057 on: January 29, 2009, 07:42:10 PM »


ZA's solution is luciferian theosophy where all other religions are banished and made illegal. People are re-educated into the new "planetary consiousness" and a fully planetary centralized control system (via technology) will tell us what to think, how to act, and when to die. Please take a look at the Venus Project webpage and see if you can identify the red flags.


Sane, I have to disagree with you. ZA states clearly that laws are not needed. Nothing is legal, nothing is illegal. They never claim to banish religions or religious sentiment. They merely claim that science, creative thought and evolution of consciousness are prevelent in an evolved society. That's all. Don't put words into their mouths. Watch the movies again.

The claim made by the makers of Zeitgeist is that science and technology are what is going to advance humanity. Religion and its restrictive thought processes hinders development and evolotion.

There is no mention of illegal. Nobody is told when to die, or whatever else you claim. Nobody is told how to act. They merely get along and they are motivated by a different means since money is no longer needed. Abundance is all around. People's motivations would change. Creativity would flourish. That's the message of the movies.

How is that bad???
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« Reply #2058 on: January 29, 2009, 08:00:26 PM »

How great would it be to have time  work on my theory regarding personal levitation through mass positive energy , energy multiplied through acceptance and understanding...TIME to be a person rather than just a worker bee. Time to develop the spirit rather than only resuscitating it for another day.
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« Reply #2059 on: January 29, 2009, 08:09:08 PM »

For ages, only a few have made vast improvements to the advancement of man. These were primarily medicine men, gurus, thinkers...people who didn't have to do labor in order to provide for the rest of the tribe, so to speak. Think if we all could ponder, create, and advance ourselves, our society without having to worry about work, about money.

Of course this won't happen immediately and it's not going to be easy. We're going to have to get rid of our preconditioned notions of how the world is supposed to be. You call it re-education, I call it evolution. Spiritual, mental and physical evolution.

I just watched the interview between AJ and Peter Joseph on Youtube. My god, I love Alex, I listen to his show regularly but Alex really came off as a maniac haha PJ tried to explain himself and I thought he did a great job given the circumstances.

Many aren't going to agree because it seems hard, it seems impossible.

If you told someone a hundred years ago that we'd be talking on the computer, or explained the situation in language and with terms they would understand, they would call you crazy. They wouldn't be able to fathom what you were talking about.

This is the same thing. It's hard to imagine a world much different, a system much different than we have now.

I love the movies and can't wait for part III. I just wish people would watch the movies and actually contemplate HOW it would work instead of listening to everyone else about how it's Theosophy or Blavatsky or whatever else they say. These are not true and they're only lies to discredit these people who have the whole of humanity's good will in mind. Again, how is that bad???
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« Reply #2060 on: January 29, 2009, 08:27:07 PM »

For ages, only a few have made vast improvements to the advancement of man. These were primarily medicine men, gurus, thinkers...people who didn't have to do labor in order to provide for the rest of the tribe, so to speak. Think if we all could ponder, create, and advance ourselves, our society without having to worry about work, about money.

Of course this won't happen immediately and it's not going to be easy. We're going to have to get rid of our preconditioned notions of how the world is supposed to be. You call it re-education, I call it evolution. Spiritual, mental and physical evolution.

I just watched the interview between AJ and Peter Joseph on Youtube. My god, I love Alex, I listen to his show regularly but Alex really came off as a maniac haha PJ tried to explain himself and I thought he did a great job given the circumstances.

Many aren't going to agree because it seems hard, it seems impossible.

If you told someone a hundred years ago that we'd be talking on the computer, or explained the situation in language and with terms they would understand, they would call you crazy. They wouldn't be able to fathom what you were talking about.

This is the same thing. It's hard to imagine a world much different, a system much different than we have now.

I love the movies and can't wait for part III. I just wish people would watch the movies and actually contemplate HOW it would work instead of listening to everyone else about how it's Theosophy or Blavatsky or whatever else they say. These are not true and they're only lies to discredit these people who have the whole of humanity's good will in mind. Again, how is that bad???


i dont deny that abundance would alter society etc, and i think it safe to say not many would deny that, but simply to say "oh, well, if we had abundance it would be great", its kinda obvious, it goes without saying, but how do get abundance? Z's answer is to rely and support technology to fufill our needs, to reject individual responsibility as selfish and to work for the common good, to pool our resources as it were.

now, again, im not going to deny that this all paints a very lovely picture, but it says absolutely NOTHING as to how we get there, unless we are to simply rely on the goodwill and good nature of man kind, in which case begs to ask, by what process would we emerge from post-nwo and move toward this lovely utopia? what happens in the middle? do we defeat the nwo and then just abolish all laws? nothing is legal and nothing is illegal, right?

however you want to dress it up, Z is full, chock a bloc with communist, new age visions as the answer, evolution of consciousness...there's an elitist notion if ever there was one, what happens if we disagree as to what the best course for this evolution is? for that matter, how are decisions being made full stop?

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« Reply #2061 on: January 29, 2009, 08:33:13 PM »

It's not "debunked", you idiot. Some of the most profound thinkers in history have said that the human child is blank slate, onto which impressions are created. That's what we are. We are shaped by our environment. You have been shaped by group psychology to say something as stupid as you just said.

And then you have Sane and others saying this is "occultic", just because Tabula Rasa is not a bland American name. The name sounds a bit funny, so it's suddenly witchcraft and voodoo... God damn. Sometimes I think this American truth movement is made up of ignorant racist-type people. Just my opinion.

I don' think that the Human child is blank slate as Joseph would like to believe. We are built with instincts determined by genetic code. Levels of testatorne, hormones, metabolism, brain Power, special abilities, are all differentiated genetically. I do not doubt an environmental factor as humans are molded like clay.
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« Reply #2062 on: January 29, 2009, 08:35:50 PM »

Stop accusing me of things you don't understand. I am entitled to my opinion, and I believe we adapt to our environments.

The whole orphan thing is BS. Show me some data and  then I'll listen. It's a myth.
you are quite ignorant. don't be so arrogant. Why don't you do some research yourself.
IQ scores is one indicator of genetic influence.
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« Reply #2063 on: January 29, 2009, 08:38:19 PM »

The Genetic make up of a child may be what determines how he will process the information he receives through sensory perceptions but the environment is ultimately the cause of genetic reaction.
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« Reply #2064 on: January 29, 2009, 08:39:27 PM »

Those were Alex's arguments as well. And he kept butting in as PJ tried to explain that in order to get there we have to slough off the way we've been accustomed to doing things.

This is a great opportunity to do just that. The system is collapsing and we outnumber the PTB drastically. However, like you say, many aren't ready for this type of movement. PJ makes some suggestions at the end of ZA. Boycotting is a great idea.

It's not communism, however. Communism, Marxism, etc. These are pigeonholed systems that we've been accustomed to accept as the only alternatives to the system we have now. This movement if you will is different than anything that's been attempted before.

Communism still has an elite at the top. It still works on a tiered system where most don't have much and a few have a lot. These systems, just like the so called free trade system we have now, relies on someone always having too much and the majority not having enough.

The Z and ZA movements are about abundance where everyone has all they want. Nobody would have any reason to do bad things. Sounds incredible, I agree. But it's all about the resources. How do we get there? We use the Earth's natural resources to power the things we have instead of using dirty fuels. We build more wind turbines, wave energy machines, etc.

We have all we want. There's enough food to feed everyone on this planet and more. But until we 'forget' the system we have now and unless we adopt a better way of doing things, there will always be an elite. Our fight will never end.

How do we get there? that's the hard part. Nobody, even the makers of Zeitgeist and the Venus Project, claim it willl be easy. But it can happen.

Just like we moved from horses to cars, just like we moved from smoke signals to carrier pigeons to morse code to telephones to computers, etc. we will evolve. The only question is are we going to be in control or are we going to give up our control to a select group of wealthy private club members who have no right to any of it?
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« Reply #2065 on: January 29, 2009, 08:42:08 PM »

Sorry, a few posts were made before my answer. The above post is in response to Allyourbase.
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« Reply #2066 on: January 29, 2009, 08:42:20 PM »

A baby zebra is born with the innate knowledge of how to stand up and how to run. Within just hours of its birth, it's doing just that. This is hardly a blank slate. Yet there are many subtle things that this young zebra must learn in his lifetime.

The same is so for us. Some things are innate to humans. Some things are not.

Women are attracted to power in men. But there are vast differences in what women percieve as power. Some women think money or financial status is power. Some women see physical attractiveness/ muscularity as power. Some women see the ability to stand firm in convictions as power. No woman needs to be taught that power is attractive. It is innate to us. We understand this without being taught. But what you CAN teach us, is WHAT demonstrates power without a given society or even familial unit.

There is a combination at work, otherwise life wouldn't work. If we have to learn everything, we would die. We must know how to suckle, it is innate. Otherwise, we would die. We must know how to start crawling, it is innate. We must learn how to walk on our own- with the support of others perhaps, but ultimately, we must do it ourselves. Even the ability to learn is innate. The capacity to learn, and the desire to learn, are innate.

There can be only one obvious conclusion to anyone who has had a child, anyone who has been adopted or adopted, to anyone who has seen a "fish out of water" that is a child growing up with someone other than their family of origin... our personalities, our likes and dislikes, even often what knowledge we seek (or don't) is innate to us. What can be brought in on top of that, is knowledge, understanding, and various environmental influences.

Once more... the only answer is BOTH!

Could not the baby zebra be reacting to gravity and of course their would be instincts that would be part of the genetic make up, but as I said above, the environment is the cause of the animals instinctive reaction. I guess I think the nature reacts to the nurture.  something like that...?
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« Reply #2067 on: January 29, 2009, 08:48:15 PM »

Could not the baby zebra be reacting to gravity and of course their would be instincts that would be part of the genetic make up, but as I said above, the environment is the cause of the animals instinctive reaction.

Chicken or the Egg question?
that's not her argument. Genetics adapts to the environment. the gene Expression is developed , adjusted, mutated through evolution.
When a Baby Zebra learns to stand, it does so because of its genetic Code. Pheonix is right. You are right on the fact genetics is influenced by its environment. THus, Evolution theory
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« Reply #2068 on: January 29, 2009, 08:51:33 PM »

For those who haven't seen the movies or even those who have who either missed or forgot the basic underlying message, read the words from the very website that's spurning the movement. It presents its case beautifully and I think it answers all the questions, even the ones that ask how we get there.

The Goal
The Means is the End:

We intend to restore the fundamental necessities and environmental awareness of the species through the avocation of the most current understandings of who and what we truly are, coupled with how science, nature and technology (rather than religion, politics and money) hold the keys to our personal growth, not only as individual human beings, but as a civilization, both structurally and spiritually. The central insights of this awareness is the recognition of the Emergent and Symbiotic elements of natural law and how aligning with these understandings as the bedrock of our personal and social institutions, life on earth can and will flourish into a system which will continuously grow in a positive way, where negative social consequences, such as social stratification, war, biases, elitism and criminal activity will be constantly reduced and, idealistically, eventually become nonexistent within the spectrum of human behavior itself.

This possibility is, of course, very difficult for most humans to consider, for we have been conditioned by society to think that crime, corruption and dishonesty is "the way it is" and that there will always be people who want to abuse, hurt and take advantage of others. Religion is the largest promoter of this propaganda, for the "us and them" or "good and evil" mentality promotes this false assumption.The reality is that we live in a society that produces Scarcity. The consequence of this scarcity is that human beings must behave in self preserving ways, even if it means they have to cheat and steal in order to get what they want. Our research has concluded that Scarcity is one of the most fundamental causes of aberrant human behavior, while also leading to complex forms of neurosis in other ways. A statistical look at drug addiction, crime and incarceration statistics, finds that poverty and unhealthy social conditions comprise the life experience of those who engage in such behavior.

Human beings are not good or bad... they are running, forever changing compositions of the life experience(s) that influences them. The "quality" of a human being ( if there was such a thing ) is directly related to the upbringing and thus belief systems they have been conditioned into.

This simple reality has been grossly overlooked and today people primitively think that competition, greed and corruption are "hardwired" elements of human behavior and, in turn, we must have prisons, police and hence a hierarchy of differential control in order for society to deal with these "tendencies". This is totally illogical and false.

The bottom line is that in order to change things for the better fundamentally, you must begin to address root causes. Our current society's system of "punishment" is outmoded, inhumane, and unproductive. When a serial killer is caught, most people jump up and down and scream for the death of that person. This is backwards. A truly sane society, which understands what we are and how our value systems are created, would take the individual and learn the reasons behind his or her violent actions. This information would then go to a research department which considers how to stop such conditions from occurring through education.

It is time to stop the patchwork. It is time to begin a new social approach which is updated to present day knowledge. Sadly, society today is still largely based on outmoded, superstitious dispositions and resolutions.

It is also important to point out that there are no utopias or endings.
All evidence points to perpetual change on all levels. In turn, it is our personal actions everyday of our lives that mold and perpetuate the social systems we have in place. Yet, paradoxically, it is also our environmental influences which create our perspectives and hence world views. Therefore, true change will come not only from adjusting your personal understandings and decisions, but equally from changing the social structures that influence these understandings and decisions.

The elite power systems are little affected in the long run by traditional protest and political movements. We must move beyond these 'establishment rebellions' and work with a tool much more powerful:
We will stop supporting the system, while constantly advocating knowledge, peace, unity and compassion. We cannot "fight the system". Hate, anger and the 'war' mentality are failed means for change, for they perpetuate the same tools the corrupt, established power systems use to maintain control to begin with.

The Distortion and Paralysis:

When we understand that all systems are Emergent and constantly in a state of evolution, along with the reality that we are all Symbiotically connected to nature and each other in the most simple yet profound ways, forcing the realization that our personal integrity is only as high as the integrity of the rest of society, we then see how twisted and backwards our social establishments are and how their perpetuation is largely the cause of the social instability in society. For example, the Monetary System has been long deemed a positive force in society due to its claim to produce incentive and progress. In actuality, the monetary system has become a vehicle for division and totalitarian control.

It is the ultimate form of "Divide and Conquer" for at its very core are the assumptions that (1) We must fight each other in order to survive. (2) Humans must have this reward "Incentive" to do anything meaningful.

As far as Number 1 (We must fight each other in order to survive.), this characteristic of 'competition' in the system guarantees corruption in society on every level, for the basis is "us against them". Many argue that the "free market system" is good... but it is corrupt in the modern day due to bad policies, favoritism, bailouts, etc. They assume that if a "pure" free market was allowed to flourish then it would be okay. This is false, for what you are seeing today IS the Free market at work, with all its differential advantage and corruption. No laws will ever stop the insider trading, collusion, monopoly, labor abuse, pollution, planned obsolescence or the like... this is what the competition based system produces without fail, for it is based on the premise of taking advantage of others for profit. Period.

We must begin to transition out of these oppressive ideals and move towards a system which is "designed" to support human beings... not force them to fight in order to survive. As far as Number 2, (Humans must have this reward "Incentive" to do anything meaningful.) this is just a sad and an incredibly negative perspective of the human being in general. To assume that a person must be "structurally motivated" or hence "forced" into doing anything, is just absurd. Think back to when you were a child and had no idea what money even was. You played, were curious and did many things... why? Because you wanted to. However, as time goes on in our system, that natural curiosity and self-motivation is stripped away from people, as they are forced to conform to the specialized, compartmentalized, nearly predefined labor system in order to survive. This, in turn, often creates a natural rebellion within the person due to the forced obligation, and this is how we came up with "leisure" and "work" separations. The laziness assumed to exist by the monetary system proponents (who claim it produces incentive) do not recognize this. In a true society, people would follow their natural inclinations and work to contribute to society not because they are "paid" for it, but because they have a greater awareness which recognizes that contributing to society helps them just as much as everyone else. This is the heightened state of awareness we hope to communicate. Your reward for contributing to society is the well being of that society... which, in turn, furthers your well being.

Now, putting things into perspective, it is important to understand that our world is currently run, undeniably, by a small group of dominant men in high positions of those institutions which are most dominant in society- Business and Finance. The establishment of government is in tandem with the influence and power of corporations and banks. The life blood is money, which is, in fact, an illusion that now has little relevance to society and serves as a tool for manipulation and division along a kind of social organization that guarantees elitism, crime, war and social stratification.

Simultaneously, individuals are taught that being "correct" is what creates their value as human beings. This state of being "correct" is directly related to the prevailing values of society itself. Therefore, those who accept and support the social system's views are considered "normal", while those who disagree are considered "abnormal" or even "subversive". Whether it is the dogma of a unique social tradition, or the alignment with a worldwide establishment religion, the basis is the same: Intellectual Materialism.

As we realize that knowledge and hence our institutions are always evolving, we see that any belief system which claims to "know" anything, without allowing for dispute, is a failed perspective. Religion, with its foundation in faith, is the king of this distortion, as it claims to know something definitively about the most complex and elusive origins of human kind, and this simply is not possible in an emergent universe.
That being said, it is then realized that equally as dangerous as the Establishment Power Structures, are the people who have been conditioned to completely accept the static understandings put forth by these systems... therefore becoming: "Self Appointed Guardians of the Status Quo". This applies to every system, especially political, financial and religious systems. Since people's identities become associated with the doctrines of a Country, Religion or Business ethic, it often becomes very difficult for a person to change, for his or her identity has become combined with the ideologies which have been imposed upon them.

Therefore, they perpetuate the doctrine of the institution, simply to maintain their personal integrity, as they see it.

We must break this cycle, for it paralyses our growth not only as individuals, but as a society.

The Truth and Transition

Once we understand that the integrity of our personal existences are directly related to the integrity of the earth, life and all other human beings, we then have our path predefined for us. In turn, once we realize that it is science, technology and hence human creativity which creates progress in our lives, we are then able to recognize what our true priorities are for social and personal growth and progress. These points denoted, we can then see that Religion, Politics and the Money/Competition based Labor system are outdated modes of social operation, which must now be addressed and outgrown. Our avocation is to achieve a social system which operates without money or politics, while allowing superstition to work itself out as education flourishes. It isn't the right of any person to tell another what to believe, for no human has a full understanding of anything. However, if we pay attention to the natural processes of life, we then see how we can align with nature and thus our path becomes more clear.

For example, many people are worried about population growth on the planet, while very spooky comments by despotic figures like Henry Kissinger claim that some kind of "reduction" is needed. This is, of course, very scary. However, the real question remains: Is population growth really that bad? The answer is that from a scientific perspective the earth can handle many, many times more people if need be, once high technology is harnessed. 70% of our planet is water and cities in the sea ( one of many projects by Jacque Fresco ) are the next step. In turn, education about life operations will inform people as to the ramifications of their reproductive interests and population growth will naturally slow as people begin to realize how they are related to the planet and its carrying capacity.

In fact, the only true "government" that can possibly exist is the earth and its resources. From there, all possibilities can be assessed. This is why an intellectual unification of all countries is needed, for the most important information we as a species can have is a full, highly detailed assessment of what we have on this planet. Just as you would examine the land and resources of an acre of land to see what you could do or grow on it, this is what needs to happen with the planet in order to optimize what we are capable of as a species, resource wise.

Of course, many who consider the ideas presented above will often ask: "How can we do this considering the distorted value systems which are currently in operation.? How do we make such a move or transition?" This is, of course, the most difficult question. The answer: We have to start somewhere. There are many things that can be done by a single person or community that can begin to shape this vision. The most important step is education.

On March 15th 2009, ( or "ZDAY" as it was called in 2008 ) there will be a worldwide action day to expand awareness of this sociological direction. Our hope is to have regional meetings in as many cities, states & countries as possible. We here at thezeitgeistmovement.com will work to provide materials in every language we can, while doing whatever we can to help each subgroup. We will never ask for money. We are here to help, for we understand one central truth that has been lost for a long, long time:
The more you give- the more you get.

Thank you for your help.
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« Reply #2069 on: January 29, 2009, 08:51:48 PM »

Chicken or the Egg question?
that's not her argument. Genetics adapts to the environment. the gene Expression is developed , adjusted, mutated through evolution.
When a Baby Zebra learns to stand, it does so because of its genetic Code. Pheonix is right. You are right on the fact genetics is influenced by its environment. THus, Evolution theory

The environment switches on the genetic programming then I guess. If the zebra were to be born in zero gravity it would never learn to walk perhaps.
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If there were, it was on account of their ignorance."
J. M. Roberts, "Antiquity Unveiled", 1892
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« Reply #2070 on: January 29, 2009, 08:59:53 PM »


I think what it takes for the the Z Za ideas to materialize is: Trust , Compassion , Respect , and a reduction of ego intensities which are primarily fear based reactions to perceived threats to an individuals' sustenance.
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three persons present who believed in the truth of what was set down.
If there were, it was on account of their ignorance."
J. M. Roberts, "Antiquity Unveiled", 1892
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« Reply #2071 on: January 29, 2009, 09:11:48 PM »

Ok, sorry to burst the luciferian theosophy bubble, but here comes some serious truth bombs about the NWO plan concerning religion, free will, human nature, and state sovereignty via a scientific technocracy...

To start off, please read the following book:

Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era

It is written by Zbigniew Brzezinsky (CFR/Trilateral Commission/Planner of 9-11/Creater of Al-Qaeda/Overall scumbag

Here is one of the quotes from the book:

"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."
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« Reply #2072 on: January 29, 2009, 09:15:28 PM »

Please make sure to see that PJ's "new ideas" are BS ideas that Rockefeller/Rothschild/Strong explained long ago. I am concerned about the conclusions of ZA match exactly with CFR/Bilderberg/UN future directions dealing with te end of sovereignty, the end of freedom of religion, and the centralized control of resources.  The underlying agenda for me seemed to match things we were warned about by others.  Watch the following whistleblower expose these similar plans almost 20 years ago.  He reveals that Rothschild/Rockefeller/Maurice Strong (partner with Al Gore) have been planning resource distribution for a long time and have used the World Wildlife Federation and the UN to control the most important land.

 

George Hunt initially wanted to buy a ticket but this proved to be much too expensive ($650). At the conference he noticed it had very little to do with the conventional environment movement and was surprised to see people like Maurice Strong, Edmund de Rothschild (Pilgrims Society), David Rockefeller (Pilgrims Society), and James A. Baker (Pilgrims Society; Cap & Gown; trustee American Institute for Contemporary German Studies; Atlantic Council of the United States; National Security Planning Group; Bohemian Grove; CFR; Carlyle; advisor George W. Bush in his 2000 election). In his two videos, produced in 1989 and 1992, he plays audio recordings of several of the 1987 speakers, including Maurice Strong and Edmund de Rothschild (71). There's not really a reason to label these recordings a hoax (to use UFO community language) and subsequently denounce George Hunt as a fraud. In fact, Hunt could hardly have done a better job at presenting his evidence. However, some of the evidence this person has uncovered is so amazing, that most people will remain skeptical (like me), no matter how much evidence is presented. If what Hunt is claiming is true, then it confirms the overall picture that has been sketched in this article. First take a look at the following Fourth World Wilderness Conference (1987) statement from David Lang (spelling unknown; a Montreal banker, according to Hunt):

"I suggest therefore that this be sold not through a democratic process - that would take too long and devour far too much of the funds - to educate the cannon fodder, unfortunately, that populates the earth. We have to take almost an elitist program, [so] that we can see beyond our swollen bellies, and look to the future in timeframes and in results which are not easily understood, or which can be, with intellectual honesty, be reduced down to some kind of simplistic definition."
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« Reply #2073 on: January 29, 2009, 09:17:26 PM »

"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."
David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations
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« Reply #2074 on: January 29, 2009, 09:17:58 PM »

For those who haven't seen the movies or even those who have who either missed or forgot the basic underlying message, read the words from the very website that's spurning the movement. It presents its case beautifully and I think it answers all the questions, even the ones that ask how we get there.

The Goal
The Means is the End:



well, i at least agree with the title, as to what the article refers to as the "means", as far as i can tell the best it offers is some kind of mass movement of kindness and honesty. i mean, great, i would really love to see that, but so far as a means, in terms of principles etc, it offers very little, in fact it is utterly reliant on us being able to make the correct decisions without any leadership or structure, almost as though everybodies just suddenly going to start agreeing with each other.

anyway, i too hope that each individual will take more responsibility and strive to better themselves and their surroundings, and i too share that this by definition must be without force/coercion, however, relying on the good nature of people to carry us to this land of plenty is flimsy in my opinion, and doesnt hold a candle to the morality and just notion of Liberty, that of do unto others as you would have them do to you. individual sovereignty is still the most moral, just, fair way to view humanity in my opnion.
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Peace and Love.

If I don't, who will?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcx9BJRadfw

The ends do NOT justify the means...
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« Reply #2075 on: January 29, 2009, 09:20:28 PM »

From Chocolaty http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=62764.msg324725#msg324725


Zeitgeist 2 propagandizing natural law!! 57:45
it seems to blame money instead of carnality in the case of someone who's selling you something or a doctor who tells a patient he needs certain things done, cynically wondering whether or not it's true or it's because of their greed. So the movie seems to assume greed, fleshy lusts etc.

it excuses the big corporations as victims of this. What nonsense, give me a break.

money isn't inherently bad any more than a gun or a knife is inherently bad, but a carnally lusting heart of a man seeking or possessing those things is what is bad. Which is why the hearts of men must be change and yeild to all goodness, to lust after that which is opposite and waring against all lusts of the flesh, the spirit! What we notice tells us something is wrong, though stealing might be selfishly seeming to be advantageous, something tells us it's bad, and we all know it. It's bad because it's not our possession, we haven't worked for it and therefor it's NOT JUST for us to take it. This spirit is after Justice, Peace, Love, Kindness, etc which war against our flesh which is ___

It's not money that causes a man to do wrong, but the love of money in that man's heart

1:01:00 they blame competitive money system (the SYSTEM!!!) for
  • limited technology
  • exploitation
  • class
  • wealth gaps
  • corruption
  • rich ruling elites

While it is the population's carnally lusting heart which is responsible for their corrupt rulers. A nation is ruled by the government it deserves

They then excuse walmart coming in because by the reason for their carnal lusts for greed which excuses them they move into a town and all the small businesses close and a "grey area emerges" (according to Zeitgeist). What exactly is walmart doing wrong zeitgeist asks, why should they care about small businesses they destroy.

Then they equate this "more subtly" to a person being fired from their job because a new technology comes out which can do it better and faster. How is that corruption?!

So the 3 examples Zeitgeist gives which it says are all corrupt, the more to the less subtle are as follows
  • Dumping toxic waste
  • Having a monopoly entreprise
  • Downsizing the workforce
Then for this it says that the motive is the same: Profit (which it excuses). It excuses the carnal lusts and blames the systems. In summary it concludes that monateriism.
The motive it says is the same: Profit. They are all different degrees of the same "self-preserving mechanism" which always puts the well being of people second to monatery gain. (carnal lusts before spiritual ones).
So it renamed corruption which it gave a bad example for to self-preservating mechanism.

OH!!!! that's how they lead to pantheism!!! They're gonna say that we should put the resources (earth) before ourselves!

Democracy then it says isn't possible under a monerary based economy? WHAT?! They say if you have more money to advertise your position, the position you desire in government, that is in a democracy, it serves those in positions of differential advantage so it's always a dictatorship of the elitist, the financially wealthy.

so technology solves problems not politics zeitgeist says

So now we shouldn't write to our congressmen and representatives?

The monetary system is the reason why we don't have technology everywhere? It talks about the resources (Pantheism incoming I can feel it)
Funny that this is coming out when the economy is about to crash and the entire world will be affected. Maybe we shouldn't start another valid backed based currency?!

Maybe we should all have the resources divided upon every human being. (aka legitimizing theft) So that like in many places around the world now increasingly if you have "needs" and want to take someone else's proprety by 'virtue' of you having a need and needing to succour it you're justified and if the person who has it resists he can be put in jail.

so the 'competitive' monetary system is driven by "self-interest" to get those things which we all need (under carnal lusts which it assumes and excuses the consequences of for everyone) and therefor we should all split them among people.

Then they make it seem as if there was nobody honest out there.

Rather than everybody should realise that the cause for the world problems are the evil lusts of a carnal heart and therefor the solution is the good lusts of a spiritual heart they blame wars and poverty, on the profit system. They say it's impossible to have technological advancement to it's most productive and efficient states in a profit system rather than again blaming the correct culprit which is greed, not the money. The love of money is greed, this is the problem. And this comes from a carnally lusting heart.

It then says it's impossible for human beings to behave on truely ethical or decent ways under a monatery system, assuming everyone's carnally lusting heart therefor we should divide it among the people.

Greed (evil carnal lust) is no more natural than human clothing? ... wow, just wow.

Roxanne Meadows then from the VENUS project says that we want to eliminate the CAUSES of the problems. Eliminate the PROCESSES that produce greed and bigotry and prejudice and people taking advantage of one another and elitism!  Eliminating the need for prisons and welfare. We've always had these problems because we've always lived within SCARCITY and BARTER and MONETARY SYSTEMS THAT PRODUCE SCARCITY.
So the CAUSES of the problems are the PROCESSES that produce all these evils. These PROCESSES zeitgeist has identified for us as being the money itself, not the carnally lusting heart.

Look up dictionary.com for Lucifer.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lucifer
"the planet Venus when appearing as the morning star."

"If we eradicate the conditions that generate what you call socially offensive behavior it does not exist."
Zeitgeist has falsely linked money to corruption and therefor AKA this means: no money = no socially offensive behavior.

Money is not the root of all evil. The love of money is the root of all evil.

And here we get into the pantheism, what they are REALLY pushing.
"War, poverty, corruption, hunger, misery, human suffering will not change in a monetary system - that is there will be very little significant change. It's going to take A REDESIGN OF OUR CULTURE, our values, and IT HAS TO BE RELATED TO THE "CARING"(yuck) CAPACITY OF THE EARTH. Not some human opinion, not some politician's notions of a way the world ought to be or some religious notions of the conduct of human affairs and that's what the VENUS project is all about.."
There you have it, pantheism. Not man is supreme over nature but nature is supreme over man.

They propose a sociaty (while doing this showing a huge eye shape, OH NO ITS JUST A COINCIDENCE... give me a break)
1) lawless (no cops, no laws)
As for lawlessness, "do as thou wilt" satanic doctrine.
2) with no "old superstition" (you remember how they attacked Christianity)
No Christianity, boy they really hate it.
3) no professions "that are no longer valid" such as stock brokers, bankers, advertisers (because money is the cause of problems, remember? sigh)
Now of course all those aren't "valid" because all the resources are going to be divided between people, but this assumes someone's going to divide them, I wonder if they're going to be fair and uncorrupt!? lol...

More pantheistic propaganda coming our way
"When we understand that it is technology divised by human ingenuity which frees humanity and increases our quality of life we then realise that THE MOST IMPORTANT FOCUS WE CAN HAVE IS ON THE INTELLIGENT MANAGEMENT OF THE EARTH'S RESOURCES"

Money is the reason which keeps us from having these resources zeitgeist claims, so again the problems on money. Money creates scarcity Zeitgeist says. But it's the corruption which creates scarcity! Though if you remember Zeitgeist would have us link the two, corruption being excused by the fact of there simply being money.

Then this section turns into almost a bad ad for the VENUS project and their occult propaganda.
"The major difference between a resource based economy and a monetary system is that a resourced based economy is really concerned with people (what!?) and their well-being while the monetary system has become so distorted that the concerns of the people are really secondary if they're there at all"
Effectively again fallaciously assuming and excusing corruption linking it to the money itself rather than the love of money.

"If there's a problem in society and you can't earn money from solving that problem than it won't be done".
That is only true if you again assume pure carnal lusts for everyone. But what about the charity? If we love others we'll take care of them. Love thy neighbor as thy self, give to everyone who asks from you. These are spiritual injunctions from the bible which Zeitgeist vilifies and lies about so much. Every single lust which is spiritual takes care of others!
This effectively undermines the entire message of the movie and makes the case for being lead by the spiritual lusts rather than the carnal lusts, why doesn't Zeitgeist tell us about those?

Then Zeitgeist draws the same conclusion as it did earlier for technologies for free energy, because they link corruption to there being money (by this false link they also excuse the corruption) rather than the love of money which is the real cause of corruption. They assuming there's only carnal lusts they come to astounding conclusions all being held back because of "money".

Then they blame fascism in america on it's "dominant philosophy" (capitalism?) and religion (protestant Christianity). This is so utterly reversed and asinine. How does capitalism lead to fascism? Only their false links can lead them there. It can only be so because most of the population gets the government they deserve for having such carnal hearts and what for what they, murdering babies, supporting military invasions of other country, loving superficiality, pride etc etc. And protestant Christianity again is what leads on to spiritual lusts which is the real blatant solution to all these problems. The reason for the problems is carnal lusts in the hearts of men, and it's cure is it's antithesis, that which wars against the carnal lusts, spiritual lusts!


Then the anti-protestant Christianity message.
"You're brought up to believe that: "you shall earn your living by the sweat of your brow" That holds people back."
What the verse really says...
Gen 3:19  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return
"freeing people" he continues "from drudgery, repetitive jobs which make them ignorant, you rob them."
There are machines available to do certain "manual labor". But working manual labor jobs per se, earning your living, how is that, getting robbed? Shouldn't people earn their living? Isn't it honest to earn your own living?

"The path is clear, but our monetary based structure (here we go again) which requires labor for income blocks this progress for humans need job in order to survive. The bottom line is that this system must go or we will never be free and technology will constantly be paralyzed."
Yeah wouldn't want to work to earn your own bread eh buddy? This whole thing is based on their faulty links and assumptions they accepted earlier, and on it they would have us believe that "we will never be free" and "technology will constantly be paralyzed" as well as some human sufferings and crime, will remain until this whole system they propose is adopted.

"man made laws are attempts to deal with occuring problems and not knowing how to solve them they make a law."
Anarchy promoted. "Do as thou wilt" satanic doctrine again. Hey there are no problems we just don't know how do solve them yet so why have laws? If Zeitgeist 3 ever comes out I wonder how much more obvious they will get, the further down they go the closer to revealing how nonsensical and satanic what they are pushing is.

"The smarter people are, the richer the WORLD, because everybody become a CONTRIBUTOR"
"The smarter your kids are the better my life will be because they will be CONTRIBUTING more constructively TO THE ENVIRONMENT"
Yawn, pantheism.

"Patriotism, weapons, armies, navies, all that is a sign that we're not civilized yet"
Patriotism is bad? Weapons (2nd amentmend)?

"War is inevitable when you produce scarcity"

"There is no state"
So patrotism is bad and there is no state. I guess we should all merge into a single world with no nation state then. NWO anyone?


LAST PART OF THE FILM, BAM NATURAL LAW. Just as I've been saying all this post along. Knew it was coming that's all they were describing. Look at my previous posts and search for natural law. This is the greek philosophy of Aristotle and it's what they all want us to subscribe to.

They say "it's time for a new social system which reflects the understandings we have today" While showing an eye structure again.

Then they attack religions with such nescient juvenile arguements.
This man from the VENUS project again with all the answers *sigh* has this to say: "the concept of 'god' is really a method of accounting for the nature of things. In the early days people didn't know enough about how things formed, how nature worked so they invented their own little stories and they made 'god' in their own image."
How fantastically ignorant and devoid of any substance. Thank you Mr whoever you are from the VENUS project for this boldly stated uneducated opinion. Then we see the occult come into it. "and they made 'god' in their own image". It is them who are making him in their own image! Christianity is the other way around.
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
So they inverse it as per usual, the opposite of Christianity, what they are really at war against.



They then attack the 'death and resurrection of Jesus Christ". "It is very difficult to take this account literally, for not only is there no primary sources denoting this supernatural event in secular history, awareness of pre-Christian saviors who also died and were resurrected immediately puts the story in mythological territory by association."
WOW!!! Okay where to start on this.
Two attacks:
1) That there are no primary sources denoting the resurrection in "secular history"
2) That there are pre-Christian saviors who died and resurrected.

I'll start with number 2. This is blatantly false. They show Krishna and Horus which I recognize from the images so I'll deal with those [from kingdavid8]
Horus on being a savior: The only titles Horus is given are “Great God”, “Chief of the Powers”, “Master of Heaven”, and “Avenger of His Father”. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.
Horus on being resurrected: Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/horus.html
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/osiris.htm#horus
http://towerwebproductions.com/alt-lib/myth/eyeofhorus.htm
http://members.aol.com/egyptart/hormyth.html
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
http://www.tektonics.org/osy.html

Krishna on being a savior: He was never refered to as that.
Krishna on being resurrected: The closest parallel comes in some later versions in which Krishna's body turned into a log-like image which floated around the East coast of India, finally ending up in a temple in the town of Puri. But he neither rose from the dead or ascended to Heaven.
http://www.webcom.com/~ara/
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/k/krishna.html
http://webonautics.com/mythology/mythology.html
http://www.vets.com/encyclopaedia/ency1/D7.HTM
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

Now let me deal with number 1.
This is so ridiculous. If you saw Jesus after he died and was placed in a tomb for 3 days how in the world could you still remain secular in reporting this fact as a primary source? And had he was still in the tomb all the Jewish officials would have had to do is to point to his body and the early spreading of Christianity would have stopped right there. You have to remember that early Christianity was in Jerusalem!

Elaborating. We do not need to assume that the bible is inspired or even that the bible is reliable as a text, though we can get to those conclusions. Should we take the data that critical scholars allow - both skeptics and apologetics. Virtually all skeptics, it makes no difference if you're a believer or an unbeliever, they put 1 Corinthians, Paul's creed which is essentially 'I gave you - listerners from Corinth - the text, the story of the Gospel which I recieved'. He's writing this in 55 AD. The crucifixion was at 31.5 AD. Critics are willing to say that Paul probably got this material about 35 AD, but Peter and John and James had it before Paul did, and so we're right on top of the events. This material goes back to 31.5 AD and from this we get a very early account right on top of the events, we get eye witnesses, such as Paul who tells us that James, Peter and John agree. We have enthusiasm, their lives were transformed by their beliefs (the apostles) that they saw the risen Jesus so much so that they were willing to die for their beliefs, this doesn't speak of the validity of their claims, but of the sincerity of their beliefs, you don't die for something you don't believe in. Paul implies an empty tomb in 1 Corinthians 15:3 and following and so we have eye witnesses eye witnesses who were willing to die for their beliefs that Jesus appeared to them, with an empty tomb. This is but a very minimalistic [from habermas] case that can be made for the sake of not writing pages on this single point alone.

Here's a page which elaborates a bit more
http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org/jesusresurrection.shtml
Here's an entire book on the subject.
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas/dp/0825427886/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223183266&sr=8-1

In the absence of any plausible naturalistic explanation, Jesus resurrection is the most plausible explanation for the known data.



"What is truely sad however is that when we cease the idea that the stories from Christianity, Judaism, Islam are literal history and accept them for what they really are which are purely allegorical expressions derived from many faiths, we see that all religions share a common thread. And it is this unifying imperitive that needs to be recognized and appreciated."

More unscholarly boldness against Christianity and Judaism from Zeitgeist. Nevermind the entire branches of historiography, anthropology, it is to deny corroborating archaeology, palaeography, as well as umpteen popular ancient historian's and other's existence or writings (then you have a problem with those refering or quoting these historian's writings) and chronology, etc. To deny Jesus's existance is to is to deny vast historal evidence accepted by 99,9%+ of contemporary historical OT and NT apologetic and skeptical scholars. You might as well deny history until the time of cameras and videotapes. It's one of the most well attested fact of ancient history that Jesus Christ existed.

Then Zeitgeist bashes Christianity for the fruits of Catholicism, which is typical again and expected from them seeing as to how they've lied about it so far and tried to decieve the audience just as with their pantheistic no-money NWO propaganda.

Another quote from the VENUS project guy who has all the answers [... lol]
"The bible is subject to interpretation." he continues "You read it you say I think Jesus meant this, I think Job meant that, "oh no" he meant this. So you have the Lutheran, the Seventh Day Adventists (thanks for the plug), the catholic, and a church divided is no church at all."
There is only 1 correct interpretation of the bible. Some things may be harder to understand (like Paul at times) but the bible has to be consistant with itself. When taking the entire bible into consideration things become clearer (like topical studies, as well as the understanding of types and anti-types of Christ which must be consistant throughout the bible, looking at the original languages in which a verse and related verses are written, also in 1 co 2:14 we find that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. etc).
Also, it's quite clear if you know what's going on that the Catholic Church is trying to reconcile the protestant churches to themselves. Over many so far it has succeeded, but I know at least of 1 that will never give in, for it denounces the Catholic Church as the beast itself, which is biblical (daniel 2 & 8 ). It used to be during the reformation period that every single protestant denominations that I'm aware of denounced the Catholic Church as anti-Christ and as the beast itself. For some reason they do not do this anymore. Because just as they used to work by force in the world and now they do by stealth.

"This point on division, which is a trademark of all theistic religions brings us to our second failure of awareness." (let me guess, unity?) "the false assumption of separation through the rejection of the symbiotic relationship of life" Lol knew it.
More pantheistic garbage. Under natural law if we're all a group, no one should rise above the group mentality to denounce it, totally NWO.

"you have to take care of the whole community or you're going to have serious problems"
Now remember that this is to be done by FORCE which they won't tell you under an AUTHORITY in a system where NEED makes everything common. AKA you have nothing of your own and theft is legalized. Always keep that in mind.

"You gotta take care of the whole community or you're going to have serious problems, and now we have to see that the whole world is the community"
Unity message, pantheism, subserviancy to nature, anarchy, natural law, moneyless, no patriotism, no state, how disgusting is this movie really? Totally NWO.

"We must all take care of eachother" [...] "and it's not just a community of human beings, it's a community of plants and animals and elements and we really need to understand that, that's what's gonna bring us joy too and pleasure, that's what's missing in our lives right now. We can call it spirituality, the fact of the matter is joy comes from that bliss of connectedness"  *Image shown of a pyramid with the sun*. I remember that if the hands are open it's a sign of veneration but can anyone remind me if having the thumbs and indexes joined is a sign of veneration?  Zeitgeist continues with more pantheistic nature and sun worship "That's our 'god' spirit, that's that side of ourselves that really feels it, you can feel it deep inside you this amazing wonderful feeling and you know when you get it, you don't get it from money, you get it from connection."
Could this be any clearer? In occultism they will always lead you to the inside of yourself. This is something we must remember, because contrary to Christianity (as always) where it's about opening up to the spirit of God coming into our bodily vessels, they will bring out what's inside of us. This you will see them many time call 'god'. In effect increasing carnality.

Pantheistic comedians right after.

Love unites, but it's a spiritual unity, not a literal unity. When we love our neighbor and we love God we become united with them spiritually speaking (at least this is my understanding).
Joh 17:21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22  And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

but the counterfit which is literal is about uniting with the literal omnipresence. Now many verses tell me God is omnipresent but fellow Christians if you disagree please let me know, don't take this as absolute from me now.
But I am beginning to think that the counterfeit is nearly always a literal counterfeit to the spiritual. And this literal interpretation of the spiritual seems to always be the OPTIMAL occult position. Therefor according to this since they would have us be exalted to believe that we're 'gods' as the serpent promised Eve in the garden they if indeed the bible says that God is omnipresent (which I am not so sure about but I think so) then we can understand why they want us to be literally everywhere, one with everything literally as it were.

"For love is extentionality, and seeing everything as you, and you as everything can have no conditionalities, for in fact we are all everything at once"
Uniting with the world, that's the utter opposite of what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to distance ourselves utterly and completely from the world, it has nothing to offer us.

Jas 1:27  Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
&
1Jn 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Then evolution propaganda from expert (comedian) George Carlin, onto which is piled on occult assumptions. "If it's true that we're all from the center of a star" blah blah. "even a coke machine or a cigarette butt in the street in buffalo is made up of atoms that came from the star"
How do you feel being compared to a cigarette butt? Are you one with cigarette butts? How about one with cat vomit?

Carlin continues "we've been separated from the oneness" [...] "people have this yearning to be part of this original one again so they exploit that they call it 'god' they say he has rules and I think that's cruel"
So then no rules, do as thou wilt, satanic doctrine again. This is getting repetitive.

"Our lives, our past and our future are tied to the SUN, the MOON, and the STARS"
The moon now, ugh. Can this get any more paganistic?

"Our loyalties are to the species and to the planet."
Both of those are not true.
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

They quote the last two quotes from Carl Sagan who promoted pantheism and natural law

"It's time to claim the unity, our outmoded social systems have broken apart and work together to create a sustainable global society where everyone is taken care of and everyone is truely free."
*YAWN*

"Your personal beliefs whatever they may be are meaningless when it comes to the necessities of life"
Here we go. Another occult principal. My understanding of luciferianism is that it's a NEEDS based religion. Natural law appeals to needs as well, making them supreme. If I see you have 2 cars and I take feel I have need of one, under natural law I am justified to take your car because of my need, because goods are everyones nothing is truely yours alone. If you defend your proprety under this system the one who has a need can call the cops and have you put in jail for preventing someone to succour his needs. What's worse under natural law is that if one believes his friend may have a need he's justified in taking from you for his friend as well. It's the most disgusting system. Under this system if you go on vacation and come home and someone is living in your house you can not throw them out, they have needs...

"The most important issue at hand is the intelligent MANAGEMENT of the earth's resources."
Of course, who do you think's gonna manage the resources?

"Furthermore, ideaologies that SEPARATE humanity such as religion need strong reflexion in THE COMMUNITY in regard to its value, purpose and social relevancy."
2Co 6:17  Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

"hopefully through time, religion will lose its materialism and basis in superstition and move into the useful field of philosophy"
So no to God's thoughts, yes to man's thoughts? If I remember correctly this is occult.
Mar 8:33  But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
The word savourest is in other translation often translated as thinking or minding.
Also about philosophy
Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

"the fact is society today is backwards with politicians constantly talking about protection and security rather than creation, UNITY and progress"

"Instead of weapons of mass destruction, it is time to unleash something much more powerful"  *Showing the sun*

"Our true DIVINITY is in our ability to create"
We're divine?! I thought God was divine. Oh that's right Zeitgeist believes we're 'god'. *yawn* luciferianism.
Does this remind anyone of anything?
Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5  For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

"hence paralyzing any attempts at true GLOBAL sustainability" (talking about the monetary system)
Every single sentence is loaded with NWO garbage.

HAHAHA they're starting a movement, ohhh boy. I wonder how many millions will be decieved into thinking they are truely fighting the NWO when they're actually crying out for exactly what the NWO wants.

They want movement to be the world's largest movement the world has ever seen.
"we must mobilize and educate everyone about the inherent corruption of our current world system along with the only true sustainable solution, declaring all the natural resources on the planet as COMMON heritage to all people. While informing everyone as to the true state of technology while we can all be free if the world works together rather than fights."
Natural law, unity.

The rest of the movie is stating over and over again the same message so I won't write down every quote.

Since people get the government they deserve, certainly they will get it if they will it, and the powers that be cannot rule the people with evil unless the people themselves be evil. The change of the will of individuals towards evil, the desensitizing of evils is what permits these things to happen. A global movement asking for unity as such is the worse thing that could happen. It's like begging to be utterly dominated and to have nothing of your own and to think that you're 'god' and one with all of man and nature can only bring upon the earth more evils, because these things are exceedingly evil and occult and wrong.

"You are everything"
Another occult. Ask yourself why many of these occult teachers they are showing have been caught in disgusting and vile acts, it's because they profoundly darkened their hearts with these disgusting lies.

In the end, the scene where people are all stopping what they're doing and dropping their religions left and right for the occult luciferian teachings. The truth is that our goods are ours, not our neighbors, this is the 10th commandment.
Exo 20:17  Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
 We are not all one with the universe, with animals and plants and whatnot. Neither are we under them.

Now, in conclusion. This obvious new world order propaganda, and it's mixing truth with error as with the previous Zeitgeist. With that in mind, ask yourself WHY is it attacking Christianity so strongly and lying about it! This is important!
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« Reply #2076 on: January 29, 2009, 09:22:40 PM »

Technology goooooooooood



Scientists: Humans and machines will merge in future

http://statismwatch.ca/2008/07/15/scientists-humans-and-machines-will-merge-in-future/

Mobile phone inventor dreams of human embeds
http://statismwatch.ca/2008/03/26/mobile-phone-inventor-dreams-of-human-embeds/
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« Reply #2077 on: January 29, 2009, 09:23:53 PM »

The Zeitgeist films have influenced a lot of confused individuals by distorting facts. This ultimately leads to false solutions which play into the agenda of the global elite.
Some solutions are to rid the world of Christianity.
Some solutions are to Unite as a unified body.
Anyone who has done any real research into the New World Order agenda knows that these "solutions" are the exact goals of the global elite.

In these clips Alex tells it like it is.
Enjoy!

Part 1
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=EyQtN4HY4Ko

Part 2
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=-fv16-DftRE

Part 3
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JR7ZfTmxBjE




http://pressfortruth.ca/ 
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« Reply #2078 on: January 29, 2009, 09:25:44 PM »

What about the clip of the wonderful Jiddu explaining how to expand one's consciousness.  People should learn more about this guys roots:

From akston: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=62764.msg330195#msg330195

You're referring to the child adopted by the pederast Theosophist, Charles W. Leadbetter and associates, and carefully groomed to be a new saviour, a New Age Christ, under their tutelage and as a figurehead for their 'Star of the East' sect? That Krishnamurti?

MADAME BLAVATSKY'S Theosophical Society, founded in New York City in 1875, just two years after her arrival, soon had chapters all over the world. Its great prodigy (and casualty) was Jiddu Krishnamurti, who was "discovered" on a Madras beach in 1909 when the influential Theosophist and flagrant pedophile Charles Leadbeater saw an unmistakable aura around the handsome Indian boy. Separated from everyone but his beloved brother, who was doomed by tuberculosis, and encouraged by Leadbeater to parlay his striking good looks and vague ideas into fame and fortune, Krishnamurti appears here as a figure in a tragedy unmitigated by wealth and years spent living the good life in southern California.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE7D9163FF935A15751C0A963958260

Hmmmmn.
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« Reply #2079 on: January 29, 2009, 09:27:53 PM »

From Strong http://web.archive.org/web/20050310124537/http://www.ecouncil.ac.cr/about/speech/strong/mstrong.htm

Q: Mr. Strong, could you share with us why you think an Earth Charter is so important?

A: The Earth Charter is important as an expression of the commitment of people throughout the Earth to evoke their own deepest moral, spiritual and ethical principles in the task of ensuring a sustainable future for those who inhabit the Earth now and those who will follow us on the Earth.

People act in accordance with their deepest motivations, and therefore to undertake major programs and activities, which we must do, they have to be rooted finally, in the priorities of people, and those priorities stem from their moral, ethical and spiritual values. So, the Earth Charter will attempt to articulate these in rather universal terms. And by articulating them and ensuring that they represent the voice and the feelings of millions of people from all over the world, they can have an immense value in terms of motivating our political leaders to do what is necessary to ensure a sustainable future for our children.

Q: How could support for a People's Earth Charter help to create the political will necessary to ensure that this issue is part of the UN agenda?

A: The whole question of an Earth Charter was in fact on the UN Agenda at Rio. We didn't quite make it. We did make some progress. At the Stockholm Conference, which was the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment in Stockholm in 1972, governments agreed to a historic declaration, which moved the world community towards what we now call an Earth Charter. Then, at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992, as the Secretary General of that conference, I challenged governments to produce an Earth Charter. They made progress. They created a Rio Declaration. But, they did not complete the job of agreeing on an Earth Charter, and therefore people are now taking up this. People, through their organizations and through the Earth Council, who is working with many others around the world to help ensure that this task of formulating a universal Earth Charter, ...will command the support of people throughout the world and by commanding their support, as the true voice of people -- after all, the United Nation's Charter begins "We the People..." Well, the Earth Charter is going to be a product of people's commitments, and those commitments will clearly serve to motivate governments.

The Charter will stand on it's own. It will be in effect, to use an Anglo-Saxon term, the Magna Carta of the people around the Earth. But, it will also, we hope, lead to action by the governments through the United Nations.

Q: What is the aim of the process at this point?

A: The aim of the process is to bring the Earth Charter to people everywhere; to enlist the cooperation and the help of organizations of every kind: citizen's organizations, non-governmental organizations, educational organizations, youth organizations, and of course religious and spiritual organizations -- to enlist all of them in this task of trying to ensure that the Earth Charter reflects the thinking, and the concerns, and the values of people everywhere.

Now of course, people are different; people have different perceptions and different values. But, out of this we want to distill those universal values which we all must share in order to ensure our common future. And, to put it language that speaks to people everywhere but also ensures that people are the source of the Charter. And, therefore we need and we invite the help and the participation of organizations and people throughout the world to ensure that the Charter has the most universal possible acceptance, and that it is rooted in the true participation and the contributions of people everywhere. And we want those contributions. The more contributions, the more participation, the more will be the credibility and the validity and the political influence of the Charter.

Q: Why or how is a People's Earth Charter going to make a difference?

A: Of course, charters don't solve everything. We know for example, those of us who follow the Christian faith, know the Ten Commandments. We embrace them. We value them. We try to live up to them. But, we know that it has never been totally possible for people to do that. But that does not stop us from striving. Now, we know that the Earth Charter will contain values and principles concerning how people must relate to each other, how they must treat each other and how they must relate to the Earth. And these principles will be principles to which we must aspire, principles that will motivate our conduct. But, we also know that those principles won't come immediately into force. Everybody will not suddenly embrace them. But we hope that everybody will respect them, everyone will try to base their lives on these principles and only by doing that can we ensure that the Earth will remain a safe and hospitable home for those who follow us on it.

Q: There has been a lot of concern about the role the Earth Charter will play in the UN negotiations. Is one of the ultimate goals of the project to receive an official endorsement by the UN?

A: Well, it does not depend on that. Let me be very clear, this is a People's Earth Charter. It will have its power, it will have its influence because it comes from people. That's why we want to ensure that people throughout the world, the maximum number of people, are involved. That is what will give it its authenticity. That is what will give it its credibility. That is even more important than putting it on the UN Agenda. But by doing that, then that will make it inevitable that the UN will take note of it, and hopefully it will then lead to a process of producing a formalized Earth Charter.

But, let us be very clear, the UN action is not going to be the only goal. The real goal of the Earth Charter is that it will in fact become like the Ten Commandments, like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It will become a symbol of the aspirations and the commitments of people everywhere. And, that is where the political influence, where the long-term results of the Earth Charter will really come.

Of course, as someone who has served the UN for many years, I hope very much that the UN will embrace this and that it will be translated into a formal commitment on the part of governments. But the a priori purpose is to get the commitment of people, and the political commitment of governments, hopefully through United Nations action, will follow inevitably from the commitment of people.
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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
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