Zeitgeist Deception - Producer no longer feels 9/11 was an inside job

[Firewerk66]

Evidence that Jiddu Krishnamurti was generally accepted to be the 'new messiah' or 'World Christ' of the Theosophical Society.

KRISHNAMURTI HERE; SAYS HIS MESSAGE IS WORLD HAPPINESS; Young Hindu, Hailed as the 'Vehicle' by Theosophists, Talks of His Mission. CALLS AMERICA JAZZ MAD But Materialism Will Lead to a Spiritual Plane Here, He Declares. TO LEAD NEW CIVILIZATION Mrs. Annie Besant Asserts 'World Teacher' Will Enter 'Krishnaji's' Body in December. " VEHICLE" OF THEOSOPHISTS AND HIS SPONSOR. KRISHNAMURTI HERE WITH HIS MESSAGE
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50917FD3D581B7A93C4AB1783D85F428285F9&scp=4&sq=Krishnamurti&st=cse

Date: August 26, 1926

PUPILS PUZZLED BY "NEW MESSIAH"; KRISHNAMURTI
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60810FB3C54127A93C3A81783D85F4D8285F9&scp=8&sq=Krishnamurti&st=cse

Date: August 11, 1929, Sunday

Need I go on? So let's stop with the childish denial game, please. That Jiddu purportedly rejected his 'Messiah' title at the end of his life is irrelevant: he clearly approved of it in his heyday.

no, you'd need not go on.

this is evidence of nothing. nobody denies he was raised to be a world teacher. the fact he rejected theosophy and ALL organized religions completely relevent.

again, if anybody cares to read some of his works, you'd know this to be the case.

OK so the christians tortured people during the inquisition - according to your logic, that should make all modern christians torturers.

[squarepusher]

again, if anybody cares to read some of his works, you'd know this to be the case.

Oh yeah, I just need to believe HIS VIEW on the matter, not what the mainstream press reported on him back in his heyday.

By that same token, I should also believe George Bush at his every word, and not the mainstream press reports about his abuse of executive power, his approval of torture.

[Firewerk66]

Oh yeah, I just need to believe HIS VIEW on the matter, not what the mainstream press reported on him back in his heyday.

By that same token, I should also believe George Bush at his every word, and not the mainstream press reports about his abuse of executive power, his approval of torture.

i'm not saying to believe anything. read what he had to say and make up your own mind, dont just parrot what others are saying - certainly not mainstream media article.

[Atomic]

Hey you guys are masters at avoiding questions, like the one I ask how PJ's 'utopia' deals with the frail elderly, the 24/7 sick, etc?

Of course, eugenics and euthanasia (to eradicate these 'problems'), so beloved of these Brave New Worlds, kinda f**ks up the whole utopia picture, sorry, illusion.

Yeah us Z-Trolls are really deceptive. The elderly and sick would be treated by doctors and cared for. Your bizarre paranoia about eugenics and euthanasia comes from inside your head buddy not from Zeitgeist. Z-Troll out.

[UK Lyn]

Yeah us Z-Trolls are really deceptive. The elderly and sick would be treated by doctors and cared for. Your bizarre paranoia about eugenics and euthanasia comes from inside your head buddy not from Zeitgeist. Z-Troll out.

Doctors don't sit with the 24/7 ill, who need feeding and ass-wiping, its nurses dude, a crappy job that needs a big reward eg pay, money.

Who the hell will do a crappy job in a society with no reward?  Hint, nurses don't want no f***ing medals or 'admiration', they want paid, and the fine detail of dealing with people is something no frikkin Robbie The Robot will do.

Question still stands you failed.  One doctor for one 24/7 patient?? clearly you haven't worked in a nursing home -as I have, been there, got the f***ing t-shirt, and no doctor will do that.  And no-one will do it for free.

Reality lesson-1, the frail-elderly and 24/7 sick outnumber 'doctors' by magnitudes.

PJ's 'utopia' fails on the fine detail of 'reality' like this.

[UK Lyn]

Holy crap, another ZA thread?

On the other thread now consigned to the Off-Topic area, I asked a genuine question of ZA advocates:

Who, in the ZA 'utopia', will do those horrible-at-times jobs that cannot ever be done by technology (eg robots)?
Don't kid yourself, such jobs will always exist, as long as we get old and frail, or get sick and need 24/7 care, or are born severely handicapped.

Ever worked in a old folk's home?  I did for quite a while. I can assure you, no robot or 'technology' is going to be gentle or empathic enough for that job. So this 'utopia' will still need human beings there at least, doing at times a pretty unpleasant job -It's just an example and I'm not trying to be 'shock', but have you ever assisted with a crisis geriatric constipation? No? Well WHO will do THAT in 'utopia' ?

That is just ONE of countless examples of jobs, yes jobs, that will never be handed over to 'technology'

Go on, please, just one Z.A. advocate, tell me WHO is going to do these often-unpleasant JOBS and what will be their reward? (or will 'utopia' not have any old, ala Logan's Run?)

...


I already had one ZA advocate answer to me "doctors will do it".  No they won't.  What doctor will be present 24/7 for the old, ill or handicapped who need them? Of course there won't be, these jobs need nurses and the job is frankly very unpleasant at times.  People who do this job (like I did) will only do it for some reward at the end of the day.  Without pay, no-one will do these jobs.  And it follows if everything is 'free', then why do these at-times awful jobs at all, hell go and play golf all day instead.

I see these 'problems' being dealt with by euthanization -we will no doubt be 'conditioned' to accept that as right.

Utopia always fails on the fine print.

[Firewerk66]

Holy crap, another ZA thread?

On the other thread now consigned to the Off-Topic area, I asked a genuine question of ZA advocates:

Who, in the ZA 'utopia', will do those horrible-at-times jobs that cannot ever be done by technology (eg robots)?
Don't kid yourself, such jobs will always exist, as long as we get old and frail, or get sick and need 24/7 care, or are born severely handicapped.

Ever worked in a old folk's home?  I did for quite a while. I can assure you, no robot or 'technology' is going to be gentle or empathic enough for that job. So this 'utopia' will still need human beings there at least, doing at times a pretty unpleasant job -It's just an example and I'm not trying to be 'shock', but have you ever assisted with a crisis geriatric constipation? No? Well WHO will do THAT in 'utopia' ?

That is just ONE of countless examples of jobs, yes jobs, that will never be handed over to 'technology'

Go on, please, just one Z.A. advocate, tell me WHO is going to do these often-unpleasant JOBS and what will be their reward? (or will 'utopia' not have any old, ala Logan's Run?)

...


I already had one ZA advocate answer to me "doctors will do it".  No they won't.  What doctor will be present 24/7 for the old, ill or handicapped who need them? Of course there won't be, these jobs need nurses and the job is frankly very unpleasant at times.  People who do this job (like I did) will only do it for some reward at the end of the day.  Without pay, no-one will do these jobs.  And it follows if everything is 'free', then why do these at-times awful jobs at all, hell go and play golf all day instead.

I see these 'problems' being dealt with by euthanization -we will no doubt be 'conditioned' to accept that as right.

Utopia always fails on the fine print.

well, if you paid attention to the film, you'd know that in the Z:A model of society, there will still be jobs!! the difference is that people will work for the furtherance of society rather than monetary compensation. instead of money, people will get food, shelter, utilities, and so on.

and as i've said before: of course this society would fail if implemented suddenly with the mindset that we have now - that in order to do something resembling work one needs monetary compensation in return. look at tribes in the Outback - they have no money, no real system of exchange but they do the work required to further society and keep it going. same principal here.

[UK Lyn]

You think, for one moment, that nursing duties of the frail elderly and 24/7 sick/disabled will be done by people for 'furtherance of society'?

Not a chance in hell, they will elect to do the more pleasant jobs available every time.  That means, you may not have any 'voluntary' nurses, yet you will need them. So what then? FORCE some of the 'utopia' society into this and other unpleasant jobs at gunpoint?

Who does the forcing?

Who gets chosen for the shit jobs? Who is going to do the choosing?

My oh my, beginning to look less like utopia every minute.

[heavyhebrew]

Can we kill this thread or move it to OT? Enough already.

Please? Enough with the internal strife, ZAers want transhumanism and some touchy feely feel good speeches. Good, you guys go over there and get to be shirts.

All the Christians, religious minded truthers, non-conformists, anarcho punks go over to this spot and get to be skins.

Now lets play some frisbee football!

[UK Lyn]

Can we kill this thread or move it to OT? Enough already.

Please? Enough with the internal strife, ZAers want transhumanism and some touchy feely feel good speeches. Good, you guys go over there and get to be shirts.

All the Christians, religious minded truthers, non-conformists, anarcho punks go over to this spot and get to be skins.

Now lets play some frisbee football!

Agreed!!! 

[Keisha R]

yaa an besides that movie was mostly wrong 

[Colin]

Unfortunately, this has dwindled down into "AJ said this...No, PJ said that...."  And it really doesn't matter.  The interview is over and we all respect Alex or else we would not be here, so....  So lets keep to the issues at hand. 

First I have to ask many of you...Have you read Blavatsky?  Have you read Krishnamurti or are you just guessing about their philosophies?  I will admit that I didnt get more than 80-90 pages into The Secret Doctrine but I can tell you what I know about it and her.  Blavatsky is a spiritual scholar.  She is a hermit who has nothing to do with the New World Order. Elitists latched onto her teachings and funded her modest organization to try to prop it up and make it big.  They appointed managers, etc and Blavatsky just kept on doing her research and never got into the business.  People who try to lump her into the satanists like Pike and all them are just plain wrong and have not taken the time to look into this.

I have not read much of Isis Unveiled and this is probably the one that has more ideology in it because The Secret Doctrine is just a commentary on a 2000 vear old Yogic teaching.  Its just her very deep and spiritual explanation of a very old text that is a big part of the Yoga philosophy of India. And it is about as advanced reading as you can get.  It goes over the heads of everyone except probably 100 people on Earth.  And I am not one of those who can get its full meaning either. If you have no knowledge of Yoga (not the exercise, the philosophy), then you cant comment on the Secret Doctrine.  Its just pure Yoga, and related super old pagan philosophy.  That's all it is! 

And now Krishnamurti.  So Annie Bessant held him up and said that he would be the Matreya or whatever.  The elites who were already fawning over the Theosophist teachings went along with it for a bit until Krishnamurti completely denounced the entire idea.  He said leaders are not needed, individuals must do their own inner work and he walked away.  I have read plenty of Krishnamurti and to try to say he is NWO is such a laugh!  He is as far form that as you can get.

In fact the majority of those who are pointed out as satanists, etc are not.  They are just philosophers and if there is any question of why they often share certain ideas with the NWO its because of Jung's Collective Unconscious.  Please look it up. 

I get tired of materialists after a while.  There is an entire universe of interconnectedness of ideas, memes, philosophies, etc that have nothing to do with a NWO plan.  There are levels of intelligence that over-ride all of this.  You materialists think EVERYTHING is an elite plan and are really just stopping yourselves from making any real spiritual progress.  In fact, some of you dont even know what "spirit" is.

I know you all have seen the Matrix trilogy.  You have seen the Illuminati references, etc.  But did you see that above all of this innuendo is even higher innuendo that relates to this interconnectedness of Consciousness?  Have you seen the Yogic and Buddhist teachings that are in there too?  This is a good facsimile of what we "conspiracy theorists" are involved with too.  There is a level above the common man's understanding and that is the Matrix that AJ talks about.  We are all aware of at and we think that is all there is.  Then there is a more 'spiritual' Matrix above that and it is the puppet master of the lower Matrix.  And there is no human or alien pulling those strings.( or maybe there is....we shall see)  Some of us know about it but not most.  And you can be sure there are levels above that.  So its time to just keep climbing'  Just keep moving up that ladder.  Dont stop on the fifth rung and proclaim you see the world from there.  Just keep climbing.

I am not insulting anybody.  I am just trying to point these things out so that you might say to yourself "Hey maybe there is more to this than just a NWO satanist plan".
By the way I am not a Christian, not  leftist, not a right-winger, not a new-ager, not anything you can label.  Just a guy who is trying to serve truth above all else.  Especially above ego and pride.

Colin

[kenischange]

Can we kill this thread or move it to OT? Enough already.

Please? Enough with the internal strife, ZAers want transhumanism and some touchy feely feel good speeches. Good, you guys go over there and get to be shirts.

All the Christians, religious minded truthers, non-conformists, anarcho punks go over to this spot and get to be skins.

Now lets play some frisbee football!

I am sorry, where do the anti-globalization/NWO/kookville atheists go now? Is this like high school, there is no clique for me?

[Firewerk66]

Unfortunately, this has dwindled down into "AJ said this...No, PJ said that...."  And it really doesn't matter.  The interview is over and we all respect Alex or else we would not be here, so....  So lets keep to the issues at hand. 

First I have to ask many of you...Have you read Blavatsky?  Have you read Krishnamurti or are you just guessing about their philosophies?  I will admit that I didnt get more than 80-90 pages into The Secret Doctrine but I can tell you what I know about it and her.  Blavatsky is a spiritual scholar.  She is a hermit who has nothing to do with the New World Order. Elitists latched onto her teachings and funded her modest organization to try to prop it up and make it big.  They appointed managers, etc and Blavatsky just kept on doing her research and never got into the business.  People who try to lump her into the satanists like Pike and all them are just plain wrong and have not taken the time to look into this.

I have not read much of Isis Unveiled and this is probably the one that has more ideology in it because The Secret Doctrine is just a commentary on a 2000 vear old Yogic teaching.  Its just her very deep and spiritual explanation of a very old text that is a big part of the Yoga philosophy of India. And it is about as advanced reading as you can get.  It goes over the heads of everyone except probably 100 people on Earth.  And I am not one of those who can get its full meaning either. If you have no knowledge of Yoga (not the exercise, the philosophy), then you cant comment on the Secret Doctrine.  Its just pure Yoga, and related super old pagan philosophy.  That's all it is! 

And now Krishnamurti.  So Annie Bessant held him up and said that he would be the Matreya or whatever.  The elites who were already fawning over the Theosophist teachings went along with it for a bit until Krishnamurti completely denounced the entire idea.  He said leaders are not needed, individuals must do their own inner work and he walked away.  I have read plenty of Krishnamurti and to try to say he is NWO is such a laugh!  He is as far form that as you can get.

In fact the majority of those who are pointed out as satanists, etc are not.  They are just philosophers and if there is any question of why they often share certain ideas with the NWO its because of Jung's Collective Unconscious.  Please look it up. 

I get tired of materialists after a while.  There is an entire universe of interconnectedness of ideas, memes, philosophies, etc that have nothing to do with a NWO plan.  There are levels of intelligence that over-ride all of this.  You materialists think EVERYTHING is an elite plan and are really just stopping yourselves from making any real spiritual progress.  In fact, some of you dont even know what "spirit" is.

I know you all have seen the Matrix trilogy.  You have seen the Illuminati references, etc.  But did you see that above all of this innuendo is even higher innuendo that relates to this interconnectedness of Consciousness?  Have you seen the Yogic and Buddhist teachings that are in there too?  This is a good facsimile of what we "conspiracy theorists" are involved with too.  There is a level above the common man's understanding and that is the Matrix that AJ talks about.  We are all aware of at and we think that is all there is.  Then there is a more 'spiritual' Matrix above that and it is the puppet master of the lower Matrix.  And there is no human or alien pulling those strings.( or maybe there is....we shall see)  Some of us know about it but not most.  And you can be sure there are levels above that.  So its time to just keep climbing'  Just keep moving up that ladder.  Dont stop on the fifth rung and proclaim you see the world from there.  Just keep climbing.

I am not insulting anybody.  I am just trying to point these things out so that you might say to yourself "Hey maybe there is more to this than just a NWO satanist plan".
By the way I am not a Christian, not  leftist, not a right-winger, not a new-ager, not anything you can label.  Just a guy who is trying to serve truth above all else.  Especially above ego and pride.

Colin

great post. i couldn't have said it better myself.

[UK Lyn]

I didn't necessarily agree with Peter, but for god's sake, Alex Jones is the most arrogant, immature, rude, and uncouth personality in the truth movement.
This is not an attack from some newbie on the information that Alex brings. I've listened to Alex every day since 2003. His conduct in yesterday's interview is the precise reason that most people don't take him seriously. He's like that friend you had when you were 12 that refused to admit he was wrong and shit on anybody who insinuated that he was.
And I'm not saying that Alex is wrong! It's just his bullshit personality that has turned me off.

So long Alex. It's been interesting. If it's ok, I'll just read the information on prisonplanet.com rather than listen to you spray it all over the side of my head.

I disagree AJ was anything like you describe.  When you have watched and dissected the ZA like AJ did, you know PJ is pushing pure NWO goals, in a sweet as sugar-coated Trojan Horse.  Anger is entirely the correct response, bottom line, the NWO agenda is hellish, give it no quarter however well dressed-up in disguise it appears.  Read my other posts which show PJ's 'utopia' as anything but.

The ZA failed. Bring on the Bluebeam UFO's, which will be more of the same slight-of-hand.

[Wanted]

something about gathering in a circle and singing kumbaya

there is nothing wrong with singing kumbaya....

 

[Freeski]

there is nothing wrong with singing kumbaya....

 

Especially if it has a top notch guitar solo in it.

[Dig]

I just finished watching Logan's Run (for the like 10th time-I actually got the whole series on DVD and remember watching it on TV decades ago)

whoooooaaaaa nelly

"renew renew"

"carousel"

etc. etc.

the best parts are the magnetic rail trains that are almost identical to the venus project stuff.

I almost cannot tell the difference fromt he two movies.

[Dig]

Especially if it has a top notch guitar solo in it.

frankenstein!!!

[Amd304912]

i think the UN is sending in all disgruntled hillarybots to preach ZA

i read the first line and it was funny. we have evolved conquistadors out here to indoctrinate a bunch of bullshit.

[Alias1975]

You know, I asked pretty much the same question on other websites discussing this.  No one ever replies other than those that agree.  C'mon you Z.A. advocates, put me out of my un-reconditioned misery and answer TFQ

How about the idea of families and communities looking after the ill and those that need 24 hour attention. Im not sure what the pay is like for nurses and carers in the US but in the UK its a very poorly paid job for the work they do, but most of the men and women that go into that profession are not doing it for the money but because they have a vocation in life to care for people.

So that wouldn't change in a society where you're not paid for your work with money, in many cultures of the world parents live with their children and families look after each other, those people that do these caring jobs for a very small wage would still feel that compulsion to help in a society with no money.

I guess its about redefining whats important to us in our lives, do we want to continue down the path we're going where we work ridiculously long hours so we can buy more "things" or do we get back to basics where we do things for the good of the many and the welfare and well being of ourselves and our "families" is our priority.

Personally i disagree with the Zeitgeist view that its technology that will be our saviour, maybe in a few thousand years that will be the case but i think before we get to that point we almost have to go back in time and start getting back to basics and prioritising those things in life that really matter

[pistileer]

i think the UN is sending in all disgruntled hillarybots to preach ZA

i read the first line and it was funny. we have evolved conquistadors out here to indoctrinate a bunch of bullshit.

Well, there is much bullshit in this world. To propose that I have disrespected religious beleif by questioning it merely proves my point. Strange how our constitution grants "freedom of religion" when all religions are patently opposed to freedom. Jones does much to disrespect knowledge and atheism by his constant demonization of those who do not have the ability to believe in the great "santa in the sky". I do not dis him for his ignorance, why shoud he dis me for my intelligence.

[Amd304912]

I do dis him for his nonignorance, why shoud he dis me for my intelligence.

yep

just keep on projecting away.

this is a non issue IE religion.... SO why does it Consume the entirety of the debate? because its WHO or UN i mean its globalist proportions and specifics.

in conclusion ZA is an attack on religion. which is why it gets rejected by many and will continue as such.

if it had more of an accepting stance it would not be an attack therefore i choose to not waste any more energy or thought on an ignorant subject.

[Rock]

i think the UN is sending in all disgruntled hillarybots to preach ZA

i read the first line and it was funny. we have evolved conquistadors out here to indoctrinate a bunch of bullshit.

Yep, I have never seen a new religion take off like this one.  So much passion, such proselytizing!

This thread should have started in the bible thumping section.

[Amd304912]

Yep, I have never seen a new religion take off like this one.  So much passion, such proselytizing!

This thread should have started in the bible thumping section.

haha i bet they thump the un book of law as a pseudobible.

[Boubear]

No don't put it in there, there is nothing bible about this!!

[sociostudent]

Yep, I have never seen a new religion take off like this one.  So much passion, such proselytizing!

This thread should have started in the bible thumping section.

I know...my cult alarm's going off...

[sociostudent]

No don't but it in there, there is nothing bible about this!!

I agree....maybe they can put it in a section called, "illuminati doctrine" next to esotericism and zoroastrianism.

[fellist]

Notes I made while listening to the interview with Peter Joseph. (as far as 3h03m on the podcast)

1. He avoids the question about WHO gets to make the decisions in his ideal society. Says the important question is HOW the decisions are made. He implies a scientific dictatorship – a phrase I think Alex has used in the past. He ignores Alex’s points about scientific controversies, and doesn’t seem to consider the SCIENTIFIC value of allowing multiple social experiments – this makes me doubt his real interest is in the science side of the equation. I think he just wants people who think like him (or his favourite professors) in charge of the dictatorship.

2. This guy is scientifically illiterate. He denies evolution when he says competition is not innate to us. I knew that marxists were lying when they talked about “genetic determinists” but I had never considered that there might really be environmental determinists.

I saw a phrase at majorityrights.com perfectly describing the underlying idea of liberalism: “the struggle against the struggle for existence”.

That’s what Joseph is doing - advising us to give up our interest in our own lives *as such*. This is the flip-side of his denial of personal responsibility when later he excuses evil. (Oh, those guys are just products of their environment – it’s the environment which needs to be changed (again, by who?))

If we would go along with his program we have NO grounds on which to defend ourselves from the predations of aggressive elites. Always, we’ll get the justification “science says”. Science says you can’t have any more children; science says the new Constitution of the Americas makes more sense than the old US Constitution; science says this pill will make you a better citizen…

3. Arguing with Alex about competition, he says *OK, I’ll let your listeners make up their own minds*. This is the guy proposing scientific dictatorship (perhaps unknowingly) admitting its unworkability and the superiority of individul freedom, even if people may then believe unscientific things. He’s just conceded his whole argument.

4. He says the economic system will *inevitably fail* because it’s based on competition. This is, of course, an endorsement of competition: system x will fail because it’s not viable, it will be replaced by system y, which is viable. Y wins the competition. Clueless.

5. He says *the top of the pyramid is collapsing*, Alex rightly points out the credit crunch is hitting the smaller banks and the real economy, that this recent stuff is good for the guys at the top. Joseph turns around and says he absolutely agrees and wonders why Alex thinks he wouldn’t. Patently dishonest.

6. Haha! Birds build nests because they grew up in one! I laughed at loud, just like Alex. Truly scary that this guy has so much confidence in science when he seems not to know any.
The Encyclopedia Britannica actually uses the example of birds’ nests to explain INSTINCT:

Instinctive activity is not usually a limited response to a simple stimulus but rather is a sequence of behaviour that runs a predictable course; for example, nest-building behaviour that shows a patterned sequence of acts among many birds and some fishes. Many of these actions are far from being either simple or brief. Extraordinary elaboration may be found, and, although some instinctive behaviours may be complete in seconds, others may take minutes, hours, or days.

7. Alex understandably loses patience with guy and starts to have a little fun.

I didn’t make notes beyond this point because it was so clear the guy’s a joke.

[Abunai]

Does anyone have a Windows Media Link of this interview??
I can't access Youtube or google videos....

[fellist]

I've just listened to the program of the 16th where Alex talks about Krishnamurti. When I wrote my previous comment I didn't know that Krishnamurti featured in the film - my comments there are based solely on the interview.

One thing I'd advise Alex to be aware of is that Krishnamurti positively rejected the role the Theosophists lined him up for - the "World Christ" thing. He was basically kidnapped by the Theosophists, in a somewhat similar manner to the Buddhist Lamas, in early childhood, and groomed for a religious role which he subsequently rejected.

I've read a lot of Krishnamurti's philosophy and earlier in my life it was very influential - perhaps significantly, it turned me off to "organised religion". I've come to see his teachings as both useful and corrupting. What I mean by that is in the first place he offers an approach to life which helps us to see every experience /individual /idea clearly and "freshly"; the downside is it also requires us to forego all "attachments" to other systems, ideas, religions, societies, communities, AND our families, etc.

For a person firmly rooted in his/her life, sure of who he is and where his loyalties lie, Krishnamurti's ideas when applied only to limited relationships and situations can really help us to deal openly and fairly with other people; but for a person adrift on the NWO tide, without historical, ethnic, cultural, or political attachments, Krishnamurti's negativist philosophy would really open them up to every kind of tyranny. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

 -- Finally, something I only discovered last week, most of the writings attributed to Krishnamurti were written by other people. So his childhood kidnapping, continued in effect, through all his adult life and the public role he played.

The important thing re: Alex's comments on Krishnamurti If he gets Peter Joseph back on (and boy, he should -- I really  enjoyed seeing that worm exposed), the Theosophist angle isn't as strong as it appears. Krishnamurti rejected the Theosophists and their program. Alex should also look into WHO took over the management of Krishnamurti's philosophical ideas and their promotion post Theosophy. Someone did. Krishnamurti was just a front -- it's admitted, as I say, that the writings attributed to him were not his own, at least not entirely.       

[Colin]

I just want to say a few things. 

The NWO doesn't have a monopoly on the most sacred symbols like the eye, light, sacred mandalas,etc or numerology, astrology, etc.  They are using this stuff that is the property of all of humanity and can be used to lower or raise consciousness.   

The use of symbols, pagan archetypes and esoteric knowledge is not reserved for those with evil intentions only and is use by many wihht good intentions that most of us here do not study. 

A gun is not evil, the act of murder that uses the gun is.  Esoteric knowledge itself is neutral. 

Christians need to get a grip. Be a Christian if you like.  But a real Christian lives like Christ.  Do you? 

The spiritual information that the NWO speak of that you can trace to Theosophy, and even back to Egypt, etc is now being proven by science and this information's rapid spread has little to nothing to do with the NWO.  These are memes that are spreading because humanity is attracted to them on a deep level.

Peter Joeseph, Michael Tsarion and David Icke are not working for the NWO. 

Not everything is a NWO conspiracy, a lot of stuff is, but we have to understand more about how humans operate because a lot of this is not contrived.  Its evolution. 

If an idea is a damn good one and is being promoted by someone you suspect to be compromised, does that make the idea bad?

I agree with Jgalt wholeheartedly.  We need to focus on free energy really heavily.  This will break the back of the NWO faster than anything.

Colin

[tehowe]

If we can step away from the Krishnamurti and Golden Dawn stuff for a moment, there's a way easier way to discredit Peter Joseph's doctrine...

I listened to the interview the other day with rapt interest. It really shone a light on one area of thought which we don't hear a lot about, but which is so vital - the connection between human nature, value (good vs bad/evil), and economics. Though I'd tend to agree with Peter Joseph on his assessment of the relative importance of free will vs instinct in human nature (we're not spiders or whales, after all), I didn't agree with his assessment of our conditioning 'by the economic system'. In fact, Alex had him dead to rights on this point when he pointed out that the free market has been distorted beyond recognition, and by comparison, the ideal social system of Zeitgeist sounded like little more than an expansion on the theory that one guy calls into the show with on occasion "everyone should just work, and then you can walk into the grocery store and take what you need". Riiiigggght.

The one essential point I would have liked to hear more about, and which the entire discussion hinges upon, is the idea of value. Whether you agree with the idea that (some) humans are vicious by nature or that we'd be perfectly fine in some commune of unlimited size and scope, people still need values to sustain their lives. And people, once you get past the individual level of some one person deciding which tree to clamber up because she prefers breadfruit over cocoanut, need a way of measuring the relative values of things so that they can make decisions as to what values to pursue. I really think Joseph is a crypto-Marxist, because this is what he implicitly denies. He states that we need to have a "resource management society", but he vilifies the only way that societies have ever discovered to measure the relative value of goods - money. In fact, every social system that has moved past barter has come up with a 'collectively' agreed upon medium of exchange, with greater or lesser degrees of success depending on the properties of the chosen medium - cigarettes in jails, cowrie shells in the South Seas, and metals in Europe.
 
Peter Joseph's doctrine on this point, where he takes a few minutes to summarize his idea (about 2:32:00 into the Wednesday podcast) is that 1) people don't actually need 'incentive' in order to work (notice the deliberately narrow definition of incentive here) 2) money creates scarcity and social stratification 3) money therefore forces people into a system of trading on 'differential advantage' 4) this 'fake system' determines behavior

Unfortunately, this completely reverses causality. NATURE gives us scarce resources, and this is what determines behavior. We need stuff in order to live, and some of the stuff we need is naturally scarce. Differential value exists, it is a given, because of the overlap between human needs and the natural world. Yes, technology can create plenty in certain areas - this is the truth that Peter Joseph seizes upon (while simultaneously holding that the earth has a limited capacity, so he admits of scarcity as well). But he says we need a scientific mindset to measure resources??

Money IS the product of a scientific method used to measure the value of resources. Yes, we need education to know what's good, what to value and disvalue, but it's the market that sets those values once you move past the level of information required to set value for a small tribe. The market is a database in this regard - nothing less than the emergent, collective opinion of everyone participating as to what things are more valuable than others. Get rid of the market, and you need a dictator. No, no, says Peter Joseph - people will just know, we'll be enlightened, the state will whither away, we'll be educated, we'll figure it out somehow. Well, you can't have a market without a market. Sorry. And by the way, setting market prices high for scarce commodities is the only liberty-based way to the sustainability that Zeitgeist and the Venus project and similar schools of though value so much. And money doesn't create stratification - it's interference in the market that does that. Look at the simplest example of exchange: that between two people. If I have something that's really scarce and valuable, say a vintage Les Paul, and you want it, then we are free to come to an arrangement of an equal exchange of value, either through the barter of a less scarce resource, say melons - which you can bring over in wheelbarrows, which I may not be thrilled about - or by giving me an equivalent amount of money, which is even better since I can then go and get my melons when I want them from the market without having to worry about storage or spoilage. (Gold, by the way, doesn't spoil, doesn't inflate, and is perfectly divisible - which makes it ideally suited for the job of being money, not some irrational intrinsic belief in its value).

To make a long story short, the economic theory (or lack thereof) in Zeitgeist is ridiculous on its face, and any Austrian economist could take this apart in far less time, and in a far more well-spoken way than I'm able to. I do, however, have this essay to offer on why measurement is vital to human life, and how gold is the best thing we've got to measure value...

Snuffing out Inflation: The ‘Standard Candle’ and The Credit Crisis
http://tehowe.blogspot.com/2008/03/snuffing-out-inflation-standard-candle.html

People really need to teach this to their kids, or we'll be going over it all over again in a couple generations once some tyrant pumps and dumps the next economic bubble.

[Dig]

If we can step away from the Krishnamurti and Golden Dawn stuff for a moment, there's a way easier way to discredit Peter Joseph's doctrine...

I listened to the interview the other day with rapt interest. It really shone a light on one area of thought which we don't hear a lot about, but which is so vital - the connection between human nature, value (good vs bad/evil), and economics. Though I'd tend to agree with Peter Joseph on his assessment of the relative importance of free will vs instinct in human nature (we're not spiders or whales, after all), I didn't agree with his assessment of our conditioning 'by the economic system'. In fact, Alex had him dead to rights on this point when he pointed out that the free market has been distorted beyond recognition, and by comparison, the ideal social system of Zeitgeist sounded like little more than an expansion on the theory that one guy calls into the show with on occasion "everyone should just work, and then you can walk into the grocery store and take what you need". Riiiigggght.

The one essential point I would have liked to hear more about, and which the entire discussion hinges upon, is the idea of value. Whether you agree with the idea that (some) humans are vicious by nature or that we'd be perfectly fine in some commune of unlimited size and scope, people still need values to sustain their lives. And people, once you get past the individual level of some one person deciding which tree to clamber up because she prefers breadfruit over cocoanut, need a way of measuring the relative values of things so that they can make decisions as to what values to pursue. I really think Joseph is a crypto-Marxist, because this is what he implicitly denies. He states that we need to have a "resource management society", but he vilifies the only way that societies have ever discovered to measure the relative value of goods - money. In fact, every social system that has moved past barter has come up with a 'collectively' agreed upon medium of exchange, with greater or lesser degrees of success depending on the properties of the chosen medium - cigarettes in jails, cowrie shells in the South Seas, and metals in Europe.
 
Peter Joseph's doctrine on this point, where he takes a few minutes to summarize his idea (about 2:32:00 into the Wednesday podcast) is that 1) people don't actually need 'incentive' in order to work (notice the deliberately narrow definition of incentive here) 2) money creates scarcity and social stratification 3) money therefore forces people into a system of trading on 'differential advantage' 4) this 'fake system' determines behavior

Unfortunately, this completely reverses causality. NATURE gives us scarce resources, and this is what determines behavior. We need stuff in order to live, and some of the stuff we need is naturally scarce. Differential value exists, it is a given, because of the overlap between human needs and the natural world. Yes, technology can create plenty in certain areas - this is the truth that Peter Joseph seizes upon (while simultaneously holding that the earth has a limited capacity, so he admits of scarcity as well). But he says we need a scientific mindset to measure resources??

Money IS the product of a scientific method used to measure the value of resources. Yes, we need education to know what's good, what to value and disvalue, but it's the market that sets those values once you move past the level of information required to set value for a small tribe. The market is a database in this regard - nothing less than the emergent, collective opinion of everyone participating as to what things are more valuable than others. Get rid of the market, and you need a dictator. No, no, says Peter Joseph - people will just know, we'll be enlightened, the state will whither away, we'll be educated, we'll figure it out somehow. Well, you can't have a market without a market. Sorry. And by the way, setting market prices high for scarce commodities is the only liberty-based way to the sustainability that Zeitgeist and the Venus project and similar schools of though value so much. And money doesn't create stratification - it's interference in the market that does that. Look at the simplest example of exchange: that between two people. If I have something that's really scarce and valuable, say a vintage Les Paul, and you want it, then we are free to come to an arrangement of an equal exchange of value, either through the barter of a less scarce resource, say melons - which you can bring over in wheelbarrows, which I may not be thrilled about - or by giving me an equivalent amount of money, which is even better since I can then go and get my melons when I want them from the market without having to worry about storage or spoilage. (Gold, by the way, doesn't spoil, doesn't inflate, and is perfectly divisible - which makes it ideally suited for the job of being money, not some irrational intrinsic belief in its value).

To make a long story short, the economic theory (or lack thereof) in Zeitgeist is ridiculous on its face, and any Austrian economist could take this apart in far less time, and in a far more well-spoken way than I'm able to. I do, however, have this essay to offer on why measurement is vital to human life, and how gold is the best thing we've got to measure value...

Snuffing out Inflation: The ‘Standard Candle’ and The Credit Crisis
http://tehowe.blogspot.com/2008/03/snuffing-out-inflation-standard-candle.html

People really need to teach this to their kids, or we'll be going over it all over again in a couple generations once some tyrant pumps and dumps the next economic bubble.

Although this thread has been hijacked beyond recognition...thanks greatly for putting it back on track.

I agree that the ZA projection fails on multiple levels and the economic one is very important. Your analysis should be read by everyone. 

BTW - Life of Brian avatar...super cool.

[White Rose Sophie]

Although this thread has been hijacked beyond recognition...thanks greatly for putting it back on track.

I agree that the ZA projection fails on multiple levels and the economic one is very important. Your analysis should be read by everyone. 

I must agree as well.  Good post.

[seadeus]

The fraud in zeitgeist is that it denies human nature. We are all sinners by nature, however, ZG attempts to confuse this and blame sin/wrong on the environment. The end result, if you buy the ZG line, will be for you to have "faith" in other men to solve your problems. Just the same old authoritarian agenda that has been around since Satan visited Eve in the Garden of Eden.

As for money being bad, give me a break.  Money is a unit of measure. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact it has been corrupted by the central bankers does not make money guilty of anything, the central bankers are guilty. The ZG approach has no more substance than blaming guns for what people do with them.

For ZG to have any "believers" requires that the most basic subjects (human nature/money) be confused  successfully. ZG is not at all about empowering the individual to rise above being his own worst enemy, it is about enslaving the individual.

What ZG does do is serve as evidence that in the end, the only real battle is between Satan (ZG) and God.  The NWO is just a tactic of Satan's, and not even the NWO is the big picture. The decline of biblical literacy and Christianity in the USA is what has allowed the advancement of the NWO agenda.

[Dig]

After listening to the AJ/PJ interview for 5.5 times, I can not underestimate how much has been exposed.  The entire NWO scientific technocracy and the philosophy to seduce millions has been exposed.  I am sorry for spending so much time on it, but I do believe that this is a very big blow to the agenda for the final stages of the NWO.  My typing skills suck, but anyone who transcribes this will be punching a huge hole in the NWO's armour.  So much is revealed: human instinct, re-conditioning, doublespeak, seductions of futurism, seductions of an end to scarcity, the end of good v. evil to condone horrific plans by the NWO, the attack on the natural family (AJ missed this but it is huge), etc. 

Anyone who did not see Logan's Run recently, please watch it and it will be painfully obvious that this supposedly "new" concept is not new at all and has some very troubling inherent deception within it.  And it is the NWO plan 100%.

Also look into project bluebeam as many of the same concepts are brought up within it as well.

Even the Denver International Airport Murals show how the future will have no weapons, no countries, no religions, and with a Nazi Poster Child Saviour at the head to give everyone the false abundance and false peace seducing us all in ZA.

[Dig]

AJ: "You are mentioning all these...clearly in the context...all these terrible outmodded things, and I read all the social worker books about how the family is a disease and all this, and I am asking is the family a good thing or is it going to go bye bye too?"

PJ: "Of course the family is a good thing, the family is a natural institution. Family is where people will return to in this type of situation. But there will be a different association, because the family will become the group community in many ways. The extentionality that we feel, this thing we call love is not restricted to your little group or your family."

If that response does not scare the living shit out of you, I do not know what else will.

Initially in the response, he says the family is a good thing.  In that sense he is using the communal, the collective term family.  Then later at the end of the response, he uses the word family in the sense AJ means it...parents, siblings, your household that you grew up with.  In that sense he connects it with a demeaning term "little group" to mean that localization of power, localization of love, localization of social structures will obviously be subservient to the larger collective "family."

AJ got distracted when he used the word "love" (because PJ was supposedly above such terms) that he never addressed this total Pol Pot type thinking concerning the family (watch the Killing Fields for more info on this).  The family is the strongest local set of power and any NWO future plans include the breakup of the family (why do you think there are generational incestuous criminals given many jobs and no sentence? Why do you think CPS can come at any moment and steal children from their parents, etc.).  This is a major issue and it got revealed in the interview.

PJ then talks about how there will no longer be any CPS to destroy the family. In this sense he is again talking of the collective family who would of course not need CPS because all children would already be brought up in CPS environments.  Really a troubling NWO world he is projecting whether he knows it or not.

[Dig]

Project Blue Beam warnings (this was written in 1994):

"The infamous NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration] Blue Beam Project has four different steps in order to implement the new age religion with the Antichrist at its head. We must remember that the new age religion is the very foundation for the new world government, without which religion the dictatorship of the new world order is completely impossible. I'll repeat that: Without a universal belief in the new age religion, the success of the new world order will be impossible! That is why the Blue Beam Project is so important to them, but has been so well hidden until now."

Concerning the re-education and re-conditioning agenda (according to PJ and other NWO followers, common man is solely a product of environment, so the NWO is actively researching ways to change the past/present/future environments for re-conditioning of the human):

"The old maxim, 'divide and conquer', is being played out to the limit worldwide to ensure that everyone is frightened for their personal safety, and to be suspicious of everyone else. This, too, is mind-control. To go further in regard to the new technology which is at the base of the NASA Blue Beam Project, we have to consider this statement by psychologist James V. McConnell which was published in a 1970s issue of Psychology Today. He said, 'The day has come when we can combine sensory deprivation with drug hypnosis and astute manipulation of reward and punishment to gain almost absolute control over an individual's behavior. It should then be possible to achieve a very rapid and highly effective type of positive brainwashing that would allow us to make dramatic changes in a person's behavior and personality.'

    Now, when we talked before about that kind of ray and the telepathic and electronically augmented communication, the kind of rays that are fed from the memories of computers which store massive data about humans, human language and dialects, and we said that the people will be reached from within, making each person to believe that his own god is speaking directly from within his or her own soul, we refer to that kind of technology and that kind of thinking that same psychologist was espousing, that is: we should be trained from birth that we should all do what society wants us to do rather than what we want to do for ourselves; that because they have the technology to do it, no one should now be allowed to have their own individual personality. This statement and these ideas are important because it is the basic teaching of the United Nations that no one owns his or her own personality. And that same psychologist claims that no one has any say-so about the kind of personality they acquire and there is no reason to believe you have the right to refuse to acquire a new personality if your old personality is considered 'antisocial.'

    What is important in this declaration is that the new world order will be set up over the current system, meaning the old way of thinking and behavior and religion will be considered the 'old' and incorrect way of thinking and that they can change it at one of the eradication camps of the United Nations to make sure that anyone with this 'antisocial' behavior will be disposed of quickly so that other modified individuals will be able to fulfill the needs and agendas of the new world order without being distracted by the truth."

[Geolibertarian]

Really a troubling NWO world he is projecting whether he knows it or not.

That's a key point, because I'm far from convinced he does know. My hunch is that his first Zeitgeist film (almost all of which I agree with, including the part on religion) brought him into contact with people who had been indoctrinated with the NWO ideology (whether they knew it or not), and they, in turn, indoctrinated him.

I'm reminded of something one of the Branch Davidians said in Waco: The Rules of Engagement: "I mean nothing to myself; I want to know what truth is, and I'm searching for it. If he [David Koresh] happens to be the vehicle that shows me, I thank God for it."

This is a vivid illustration of how a thoughtful, well-meaning person can be duped into a belief system that, despite whatever kernels of truth it has, is corrupt overall.